MCPS BOE petition re: making student demographics the primary factor in redistricting decisions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This petition states that it was created by Katya Simon. Before signing, I would like to know what schools (cluster) she is part of. This is important to me because the county is huge and I can’t confirm that I share her interests and needs without this information.

But what would that prove? Not everyone in each cluster has the same values. Do you hope she is in a W cluster and you can just dismiss her as a privileged racist? If she is part of a poorer cluster and opposes busing, would that give her greater credibility and make her preference for neighborhood schools "acceptable" to you?

From a simply google search, there appears to be a Katya Simon in Gaithersburg. I don't know if this is accurate, or if this is the same person. But I still don't see how this would be relevant.

I’ll be blunt. If this person lives in a very wealthy area, I would be less inclined to sign because I would believe that her real reasons for the petition are not those stated but actually to protect her own property values.

This is dumb. AU Park housing has increased at a faster pace than close in MD burbs. Eventually Whitman, Churchill, Wooten, Walter Johnson will look like Wilson HS - and the top performers will still get into great schools. So disgusted by these 1965 attitudes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am the OP of the previous "Alert" thread about busing.

Thanks, I just signed the petition.

And to address some of the concerns that others may have as to my agenda -
First, I am not spreading disinformation. I have been on the PTA board of my children's school for many years, and hear a lot of information that doesn't trickle down immediately to the rest of the community. I wrote one post, the OP of the Alert thread. I make no claims beyond that.
Second, I believe long-distance busing has more practical disadvantages (traffic gridlock, wasted time, pollution) than advantages (diversity and closing the gap). The disadvantages will be felt immediately. The achievement gap is an incredibly complex problem that cannot be solved by one measure. Injecting exaggerations, emotions and racism into the conversation is a distraction.

Really - you think busing issues are more important than diversity and the achievement gap. I don't.

I think you underestimate hardships faced by lower income families when their assigned schools are further away. I understand you are well intentioned, but well intentioned policies can hurt the very people whom you were trying to help. Many low income families do not have cars. They take public transport or walk to school. How do you want these parents to be involved in their kids' schools if they can't get there easily? If a child is sick, and the parents have to come pick them up from school, you realize that this child will have to walk further home from school? I guess for the good of the whole county, it's worth it for these families to face a bit more hardships.

While you may actually be concerned about the "hardships faced by lower income families" - I assure you that most parents posting just want their schools to stay as white as possible.

I don't think most of these white parents care about color so much as not wanting too many lower income kids who tend take resources away from the other kids, and because they don't want their kids on longer bus rides than necessary.

I'm Asian American btw, and don't live in a W cluster.

I'm not sure what's best to close the achievement gap - a smaller class size that Title 1 schools get or a 30+person class size with more wealthy kids. I"m no expert in this area, but I would think lower income kids who get lost in a large class size wouldn't benefit all that much from being surrounded by a few wealthy students.

I am aware of the study that shows that when a lower income student goes to school where the FARMs rate is about 25%, they do better than going to a school with a much higher FARMS rate, but given that the majority of the students on FARMs live on one side of the county, how is MCPS going to try to make all the schools about 30% FARMs (which reflects the total county) without long distance busing?

They will build duplexes and accessory apartments in Potomac and continue putting low income housing in new developments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To be completely honest, I don't think this will happen. The reason? Because poor people don't usually vote. The rich like their elite public schools and if someone tries to change things the rich will vote them out and install someone that will change things back.

Who? Ficker?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wooten can be integrated somewhat without radically shifting borders or having crazy bus rides. But what, if anything, do you do about Whitman?

Given the geography, there doesn't seem to be an easy way to increase the FARMS rate there. If Westbard gets some low income housing with the development that would provide some, but I can't imagine that would be too many student.

At least 15% of the new housing units at Westbard will be MPDUs.

Also, MPDUs (Moderately Priced Dwelling Units) really aren't "low income housing". A household of 4 people with an gross annual household income of $81,000 qualifies for an MPDU.

[Anonymous]

I honestly don't think there are going to be massive changes. But when they are considering boundary changes - they are going to consider diversity. Call me crazy -- but I think a lot of you are over-reacting. Not to mention -- we all know that boundary changes happen. You can't buy a house thinking you will DEFINITELY be in the same school cluster from K-12. Take it as it comes. ANd move if you are that unhappy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wooten can be integrated somewhat without radically shifting borders or having crazy bus rides. But what, if anything, do you do about Whitman?

Given the geography, there doesn't seem to be an easy way to increase the FARMS rate there. If Westbard gets some low income housing with the development that would provide some, but I can't imagine that would be too many student.

At least 15% of the new housing units at Westbard will be MPDUs.

Also, MPDUs (Moderately Priced Dwelling Units) really aren't "low income housing". A household of 4 people with an gross annual household income of $81,000 qualifies for an MPDU.

If I remember the application form correctly, a family of 4 would be eligible for FARMS at around $45k. If that's accurate, MPDUs really wouldn't do much for the FARMS rate. Even if they did, 15% of whatever comes into Westbard is still a pretty small number of units and students.

Does MCPS functionally exempt Whitman from efforts to create economic diversity, or will they be willing to take more drastic measures, such as longer busing, to provide diversity at Whitman?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wooten can be integrated somewhat without radically shifting borders or having crazy bus rides. But what, if anything, do you do about Whitman?

Given the geography, there doesn't seem to be an easy way to increase the FARMS rate there. If Westbard gets some low income housing with the development that would provide some, but I can't imagine that would be too many student.

At least 15% of the new housing units at Westbard will be MPDUs.

Also, MPDUs (Moderately Priced Dwelling Units) really aren't "low income housing". A household of 4 people with an gross annual household income of $81,000 qualifies for an MPDU.

If I remember the application form correctly, a family of 4 would be eligible for FARMS at around $45k. If that's accurate, MPDUs really wouldn't do much for the FARMS rate. Even if they did, 15% of whatever comes into Westbard is still a pretty small number of units and students.

Does MCPS functionally exempt Whitman from efforts to create economic diversity, or will they be willing to take more drastic measures, such as longer busing, to provide diversity at Whitman?

From the Westbard sector plan:

Table 2.2.1: Potential New Units and MPDU counts
Existing Units 1134
Existing Rental Units 469
Existing Rent Restricted Units 43
Potential New Units 1366
Min. 15% moderately priced dwelling units in new construction 205

So it would basically quintuple the number of moderately priced units, at full build-out (which won't happen for years, if ever). Admittedly the denominator is a small number.

What if MCPS built a new high school at the Brickyard site? Then the Churchill, Whitman, and B-CC service areas could all shift east. What would that do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

based on what? the whole area is getting less white as we speak. maybe not the kentlands but other areas.

That's the point why QO is more at risk. QO is one of the few schools that is getting more white and UMC. Combination of growth around the Kentlands/Lakelands and families deciding to stay rather than go to private school or move south into Wootton or Churchill districts. The rest of the county is getting poorer but QO is on track to become a top ranked school like the Ws in 5-10 years unless MCPS intervenes.

No I mean the QO area is getting less white except kentlands. Take a look at Brown Station, Jones Lane, and Fields Road. Only the kentlands is staying white, so I disagree that QO is getting whiter. No way.

I actually took the time to look up a few data points on MCPS's website. This is where we live as well and based on observation I couldn've told you the area around QO is getting more diverse (not less).

enrollment:
2008 - 49.57% white
2013 - 45,6% white
2017 - 40.1% white

So QO may not be the target that you think it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wooten can be integrated somewhat without radically shifting borders or having crazy bus rides. But what, if anything, do you do about Whitman?

Given the geography, there doesn't seem to be an easy way to increase the FARMS rate there. If Westbard gets some low income housing with the development that would provide some, but I can't imagine that would be too many student.

At least 15% of the new housing units at Westbard will be MPDUs.

Also, MPDUs (Moderately Priced Dwelling Units) really aren't "low income housing". A household of 4 people with an gross annual household income of $81,000 qualifies for an MPDU.

If I remember the application form correctly, a family of 4 would be eligible for FARMS at around $45k. If that's accurate, MPDUs really wouldn't do much for the FARMS rate. Even if they did, 15% of whatever comes into Westbard is still a pretty small number of units and students.

Does MCPS functionally exempt Whitman from efforts to create economic diversity, or will they be willing to take more drastic measures, such as longer busing, to provide diversity at Whitman?

From the Westbard sector plan:

Table 2.2.1: Potential New Units and MPDU counts
Existing Units 1134
Existing Rental Units 469
Existing Rent Restricted Units 43
Potential New Units 1366
Min. 15% moderately priced dwelling units in new construction 205

So it would basically quintuple the number of moderately priced units, at full build-out (which won't happen for years, if ever). Admittedly the denominator is a small number.

What if MCPS built a new high school at the Brickyard site? Then the Churchill, Whitman, and B-CC service areas could all shift east. What would that do?

I don't know. Even shifting Whitman's boundaries east might not have much of an impact unless you shifted them so far east as to go past BCC. Plus, is Brickyard seriously being considered? Needing a new school to possibly help alleviate the problem just shows how hard this will be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I don't know. Even shifting Whitman's boundaries east might not have much of an impact unless you shifted them so far east as to go past BCC. Plus, is Brickyard seriously being considered? Needing a new school to possibly help alleviate the problem just shows how hard this will be.

There might need to be a new high school in the Bethesda/Potomac area just for capacity reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wooten can be integrated somewhat without radically shifting borders or having crazy bus rides. But what, if anything, do you do about Whitman?

Given the geography, there doesn't seem to be an easy way to increase the FARMS rate there. If Westbard gets some low income housing with the development that would provide some, but I can't imagine that would be too many student.

At least 15% of the new housing units at Westbard will be MPDUs.

Also, MPDUs (Moderately Priced Dwelling Units) really aren't "low income housing". A household of 4 people with an gross annual household income of $81,000 qualifies for an MPDU.

that would be reported income, correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wooten can be integrated somewhat without radically shifting borders or having crazy bus rides. But what, if anything, do you do about Whitman?

Given the geography, there doesn't seem to be an easy way to increase the FARMS rate there. If Westbard gets some low income housing with the development that would provide some, but I can't imagine that would be too many student.

At least 15% of the new housing units at Westbard will be MPDUs.

Also, MPDUs (Moderately Priced Dwelling Units) really aren't "low income housing". A household of 4 people with an gross annual household income of $81,000 qualifies for an MPDU.

that would be reported income, correct?

Here you go, PP:

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/DHCA/housing/singlefamily/mpdu/programsales.html#Are%20you%20Eligible?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wooten can be integrated somewhat without radically shifting borders or having crazy bus rides. But what, if anything, do you do about Whitman?

Given the geography, there doesn't seem to be an easy way to increase the FARMS rate there. If Westbard gets some low income housing with the development that would provide some, but I can't imagine that would be too many student.

At least 15% of the new housing units at Westbard will be MPDUs.

Also, MPDUs (Moderately Priced Dwelling Units) really aren't "low income housing". A household of 4 people with an gross annual household income of $81,000 qualifies for an MPDU.

If I remember the application form correctly, a family of 4 would be eligible for FARMS at around $45k. If that's accurate, MPDUs really wouldn't do much for the FARMS rate. Even if they did, 15% of whatever comes into Westbard is still a pretty small number of units and students.

Does MCPS functionally exempt Whitman from efforts to create economic diversity, or will they be willing to take more drastic measures, such as longer busing, to provide diversity at Whitman?

No, there are no exemptions, least of all for Whiteman. This has been a serious concern in the County - they want to end segregated schools. My bet is that 10 years from now, all the West side high schoolswill look like Wilson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No, there are no exemptions, least of all for Whiteman. This has been a serious concern in the County - they want to end segregated schools. My bet is that 10 years from now, all the West side high schoolswill look like Wilson.

"Look like Wilson", how? And what do you think will change between now and then to make that happen?

[Anonymous]

so instead of the east/west county barbell, MCPS thinks bu$$$ing everyone around and creating barbells within each upper school is the holy grail of Big County public education.

meanwhile, MCPS K-8 curriculum is a joke, it's FARMs and ESOL scores for grades 6-12 are <50% proficient, and central office keeps jacking up the costs of everything.