MCPS BOE petition re: making student demographics the primary factor in redistricting decisions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am the OP of the previous "Alert" thread about busing.

Thanks, I just signed the petition.

And to address some of the concerns that others may have as to my agenda -
First, I am not spreading disinformation. I have been on the PTA board of my children's school for many years, and hear a lot of information that doesn't trickle down immediately to the rest of the community. I wrote one post, the OP of the Alert thread. I make no claims beyond that.
Second, I believe long-distance busing has more practical disadvantages (traffic gridlock, wasted time, pollution) than advantages (diversity and closing the gap). The disadvantages will be felt immediately. The achievement gap is an incredibly complex problem that cannot be solved by one measure. Injecting exaggerations, emotions and racism into the conversation is a distraction.

Really - you think busing issues are more important than diversity and the achievement gap. I don't.

I think you underestimate hardships faced by lower income families when their assigned schools are further away. I understand you are well intentioned, but well intentioned policies can hurt the very people whom you were trying to help. Many low income families do not have cars. They take public transport or walk to school. How do you want these parents to be involved in their kids' schools if they can't get there easily? If a child is sick, and the parents have to come pick them up from school, you realize that this child will have to walk further home from school? I guess for the good of the whole county, it's worth it for these families to face a bit more hardships.

I assume proximity will be part of the equation so I think you may be exaggerating the length of bus routes.

Then you weren't paying attention when they were discussing the RM ES#5 boundaries, nor what this thread is about. They are going to give diversity more weight than proximity.

In case you were not aware, prior to this new "policy" of putting more weight on diversity than proximity, they looked at an option where a neighborhood in the lower income area was being rezoned to an upper income area and vice versa. Basically, a switcharoo to even out the FARMS rate. It's 5.2 miles between the two ES, and would take 1.5 hours to walk it, for an adult. Think about a 5 year old having to walk it because they don't have a car. It would take 45 min by mass transit. No one from either school wanted to move. The lower income families did not want to break up their community, whom they also rely on.

Thankfully, this boundary study happened before this new policy. If this policy had been in place during the RMES#5 study, I think this option would've been given a lot more serious merit by the BOE.

That doesn't mean they are giving no consideration to proximity.

[Anonymous]

I just find it hard to believe that people's main concern is length of bus time. Call me skeptical but I think there are other factors that people are concerned about that they do not want to actually admit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am the OP of the previous "Alert" thread about busing.

Thanks, I just signed the petition.

And to address some of the concerns that others may have as to my agenda -
First, I am not spreading disinformation. I have been on the PTA board of my children's school for many years, and hear a lot of information that doesn't trickle down immediately to the rest of the community. I wrote one post, the OP of the Alert thread. I make no claims beyond that.
Second, I believe long-distance busing has more practical disadvantages (traffic gridlock, wasted time, pollution) than advantages (diversity and closing the gap). The disadvantages will be felt immediately. The achievement gap is an incredibly complex problem that cannot be solved by one measure. Injecting exaggerations, emotions and racism into the conversation is a distraction.

Really - you think busing issues are more important than diversity and the achievement gap. I don't.

I think you underestimate hardships faced by lower income families when their assigned schools are further away. I understand you are well intentioned, but well intentioned policies can hurt the very people whom you were trying to help. Many low income families do not have cars. They take public transport or walk to school. How do you want these parents to be involved in their kids' schools if they can't get there easily? If a child is sick, and the parents have to come pick them up from school, you realize that this child will have to walk further home from school? I guess for the good of the whole county, it's worth it for these families to face a bit more hardships.

While you may actually be concerned about the "hardships faced by lower income families" - I assure you that most parents posting just want their schools to stay as white as possible.

I don't think most of these white parents care about color so much as not wanting too many lower income kids who tend take resources away from the other kids, and because they don't want their kids on longer bus rides than necessary.

I'm Asian American btw, and don't live in a W cluster.

I'm not sure what's best to close the achievement gap - a smaller class size that Title 1 schools get or a 30+person class size with more wealthy kids. I"m no expert in this area, but I would think lower income kids who get lost in a large class size wouldn't benefit all that much from being surrounded by a few wealthy students.

I am aware of the study that shows that when a lower income student goes to school where the FARMs rate is about 25%, they do better than going to a school with a much higher FARMS rate, but given that the majority of the students on FARMs live on one side of the county, how is MCPS going to try to make all the schools about 30% FARMs (which reflects the total county) without long distance busing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A few miles means at least 30 minutes on a bus during rush hour, and that's within current clusters. My friend's kids' bus takes 40 minutes for one mile. Busing across current clusters might take an hour or more, as the magnet busing shows - Bethesda to Takoma Park is 90 minutes in the afternoon.

By all means, go to the BoE meeting and say that you're opposed to this change because kids are already getting bused long distances (of one mile) and it's already too much.

I do say it, and others agree.
If you operate in good faith, can you stretch your logical skills to understand that if it takes that much time to bus a short distance, it will take a lot more time to bus a longer distance?
We are against busing long distances because we can extrapolate from what's already happening. Additionally, existing long-distance busing for special needs and magnet students already take far too long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am the OP of the previous "Alert" thread about busing.

Thanks, I just signed the petition.

And to address some of the concerns that others may have as to my agenda -
First, I am not spreading disinformation. I have been on the PTA board of my children's school for many years, and hear a lot of information that doesn't trickle down immediately to the rest of the community. I wrote one post, the OP of the Alert thread. I make no claims beyond that.
Second, I believe long-distance busing has more practical disadvantages (traffic gridlock, wasted time, pollution) than advantages (diversity and closing the gap). The disadvantages will be felt immediately. The achievement gap is an incredibly complex problem that cannot be solved by one measure. Injecting exaggerations, emotions and racism into the conversation is a distraction.

Really - you think busing issues are more important than diversity and the achievement gap. I don't.

I think you underestimate hardships faced by lower income families when their assigned schools are further away. I understand you are well intentioned, but well intentioned policies can hurt the very people whom you were trying to help. Many low income families do not have cars. They take public transport or walk to school. How do you want these parents to be involved in their kids' schools if they can't get there easily? If a child is sick, and the parents have to come pick them up from school, you realize that this child will have to walk further home from school? I guess for the good of the whole county, it's worth it for these families to face a bit more hardships.

I assume proximity will be part of the equation so I think you may be exaggerating the length of bus routes.

Then you weren't paying attention when they were discussing the RM ES#5 boundaries, nor what this thread is about. They are going to give diversity more weight than proximity.

In case you were not aware, prior to this new "policy" of putting more weight on diversity than proximity, they looked at an option where a neighborhood in the lower income area was being rezoned to an upper income area and vice versa. Basically, a switcharoo to even out the FARMS rate. It's 5.2 miles between the two ES, and would take 1.5 hours to walk it, for an adult. Think about a 5 year old having to walk it because they don't have a car. It would take 45 min by mass transit. No one from either school wanted to move. The lower income families did not want to break up their community, whom they also rely on.

Thankfully, this boundary study happened before this new policy. If this policy had been in place during the RMES#5 study, I think this option would've been given a lot more serious merit by the BOE.

That doesn't mean they are giving no consideration to proximity.

No, but it does mean that it's not as important. So, if you have a scenario where a poorer neighborhood could be rezoned to a wealthier one even it means a longer bus ride, then they will do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think most of these white parents care about color so much as not wanting too many lower income kids who tend take resources away from the other kids, and because they don't want their kids on longer bus rides than necessary.

I'm Asian American btw, and don't live in a W cluster.

I'm not sure what's best to close the achievement gap - a smaller class size that Title 1 schools get or a 30+person class size with more wealthy kids. I"m no expert in this area, but I would think lower income kids who get lost in a large class size wouldn't benefit all that much from being surrounded by a few wealthy students.

I am aware of the study that shows that when a lower income student goes to school where the FARMs rate is about 25%, they do better than going to a school with a much higher FARMS rate, but given that the majority of the students on FARMs live on one side of the county, how is MCPS going to try to make all the schools about 30% FARMs (which reflects the total county) without long distance busing?

Nobody is proposing to do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
No, but it does mean that it's not as important. So, if you have a scenario where a poorer neighborhood could be rezoned to a wealthier one even it means a longer bus ride, then they will do it.

No. Then they might do it. Just like they might do it right now, with the current policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that people's main concern is length of bus time. Call me skeptical but I think there are other factors that people are concerned about that they do not want to actually admit.

It is all I care about. I utterly reject the discriminatory notions that low-income students consume more resources, that white people don't want people of color, etc. Those are vile and I don't believe that a large group of parents are actually thinking that. You may not think that wasting time on a bus it a big deal, but I have a middle schooler with a lot of activities and homework, and he needs that time. He can't work on the bus - he gets car-sick if he does, and it's too noisy anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A few miles means at least 30 minutes on a bus during rush hour, and that's within current clusters. My friend's kids' bus takes 40 minutes for one mile. Busing across current clusters might take an hour or more, as the magnet busing shows - Bethesda to Takoma Park is 90 minutes in the afternoon.

By all means, go to the BoE meeting and say that you're opposed to this change because kids are already getting bused long distances (of one mile) and it's already too much.

I do say it, and others agree.
If you operate in good faith, can you stretch your logical skills to understand that if it takes that much time to bus a short distance, it will take a lot more time to bus a longer distance?
We are against busing long distances because we can extrapolate from what's already happening. Additionally, existing long-distance busing for special needs and magnet students already take far too long.

Terrific. Go ahead and go. Then come back and tell us how your testimony went over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that people's main concern is length of bus time. Call me skeptical but I think there are other factors that people are concerned about that they do not want to actually admit.

It is all I care about. I utterly reject the discriminatory notions that low-income students consume more resources, that white people don't want people of color, etc. Those are vile and I don't believe that a large group of parents are actually thinking that. You may not think that wasting time on a bus it a big deal, but I have a middle schooler with a lot of activities and homework, and he needs that time. He can't work on the bus - he gets car-sick if he does, and it's too noisy anyway.

Then you are naive. They might not be thinking of it in terms of "not wanting people of color" but I assure you they aren't just worried about bus times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think most of these white parents care about color so much as not wanting too many lower income kids who tend take resources away from the other kids, and because they don't want their kids on longer bus rides than necessary.

I'm Asian American btw, and don't live in a W cluster.

I'm not sure what's best to close the achievement gap - a smaller class size that Title 1 schools get or a 30+person class size with more wealthy kids. I"m no expert in this area, but I would think lower income kids who get lost in a large class size wouldn't benefit all that much from being surrounded by a few wealthy students.

I am aware of the study that shows that when a lower income student goes to school where the FARMs rate is about 25%, they do better than going to a school with a much higher FARMS rate, but given that the majority of the students on FARMs live on one side of the county, how is MCPS going to try to make all the schools about 30% FARMs (which reflects the total county) without long distance busing?

Nobody is proposing to do this.

BOE is proposing to do this as much as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think most of these white parents care about color so much as not wanting too many lower income kids who tend take resources away from the other kids, and because they don't want their kids on longer bus rides than necessary.

I'm Asian American btw, and don't live in a W cluster.

I'm not sure what's best to close the achievement gap - a smaller class size that Title 1 schools get or a 30+person class size with more wealthy kids. I"m no expert in this area, but I would think lower income kids who get lost in a large class size wouldn't benefit all that much from being surrounded by a few wealthy students.

I am aware of the study that shows that when a lower income student goes to school where the FARMs rate is about 25%, they do better than going to a school with a much higher FARMS rate, but given that the majority of the students on FARMs live on one side of the county, how is MCPS going to try to make all the schools about 30% FARMs (which reflects the total county) without long distance busing?

Nobody is proposing to do this.

BOE is proposing to do this as much as possible.

Link, please?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that people's main concern is length of bus time. Call me skeptical but I think there are other factors that people are concerned about that they do not want to actually admit.

It is all I care about. I utterly reject the discriminatory notions that low-income students consume more resources, that white people don't want people of color, etc. Those are vile and I don't believe that a large group of parents are actually thinking that. You may not think that wasting time on a bus it a big deal, but I have a middle schooler with a lot of activities and homework, and he needs that time. He can't work on the bus - he gets car-sick if he does, and it's too noisy anyway.

Then you are naive. They might not be thinking of it in terms of "not wanting people of color" but I assure you they aren't just worried about bus times.

+1 Most folks will tell themselves it isn't about race, it's about income, or "expectations."

But it's about race. Particularly in this area, race is so closely intertwined with other factors that they cannot easily be separated.

I would recommend that folks listen to A Problem We All Live with. The audio version. Listen to those folks, who were rightly pilloried for their attitudes about integration. Note that none of them talk about race, but it is SO CLEAR what they mean. Now imagine themselves making that case in public, and being recorded. The words would be virtually identical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it hard to believe that people's main concern is length of bus time. Call me skeptical but I think there are other factors that people are concerned about that they do not want to actually admit.

It is all I care about. I utterly reject the discriminatory notions that low-income students consume more resources, that white people don't want people of color, etc. Those are vile and I don't believe that a large group of parents are actually thinking that. You may not think that wasting time on a bus it a big deal, but I have a middle schooler with a lot of activities and homework, and he needs that time. He can't work on the bus - he gets car-sick if he does, and it's too noisy anyway.

Then you are naive. They might not be thinking of it in terms of "not wanting people of color" but I assure you they aren't just worried about bus times.

+1 Most folks will tell themselves it isn't about race, it's about income, or "expectations."

But it's about race. Particularly in this area, race is so closely intertwined with other factors that they cannot easily be separated.

I would recommend that folks listen to A Problem We All Live with. The audio version. Listen to those folks, who were rightly pilloried for their attitudes about integration. Note that none of them talk about race, but it is SO CLEAR what they mean. Now imagine themselves making that case in public, and being recorded. The words would be virtually identical.

For some people it's about real estate. If home prices fall, many people will be upside down on their loans and most normal middle class families don't have the means to sell at that point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

For some people it's about real estate. If home prices fall, many people will be upside down on their loans and most normal middle class families don't have the means to sell at that point.

And why would home prices fall?