Montco Schools are no longer the best

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do you have any first-hand experience with MoCo schools vs. private? I do. We spent a total of ten years in MCPS with two kids before giving up and going private. There is FAR more grade inflation in MCPS than at private school, and the work is far more rigorous - lots of writing, creative thinking, project-based work, and NO MULTIPLE CHOICE WORKSHEETS! Read the article in Bethesda Magazine - very illuminating. Our county officials believe they have to choose between helping the immigrant children who will may not graduate, and the offspring of college-educated affluent people. Sadly, that's not the real choice. They need to do both. Our "good" schools are far behind those of other developed nations. We need to challenge all our kids to excel.

Yes I do. There are tons of 'valedictorians' in private school with mediocre SATs. That doesn't happen at public schools. At a MoCo high school there are perfect SATs with an unweighted 3.5.

It's also better for kids in the long run not to be coddled like they are in a private school. I also see the results of those coddled children at the university -- shocked at their first "B".

My daughter moved to Holton-Arms with a 4.75 GPA and received two C's, mostly B's and only 3 A's all year her first year and nothing above a 92. Not final grades, each quarter grades. She was shocked at the expectations. But she also went from a Spanish class of 33 to 9 kids. She moved from a school with maybe 1/3 of the kids wanted to learn to a school where 100% want to learn. The teachers have so much more time invested in each child. They meet with them, they chat via email, no one skates by. The parents? We don't even know the grades unless we email a teacher and ask for an update. The kids have full autonomy and are required to self-advocate. There is no one in that school getting easy grades. The report cards alone are like 3-4 pages with in depth write-ups for each class. It has been amazing to watch her go from "I am so smart, school is so easy" to becoming humbled around a lot of high achieving teachers and girls and truly having to work hard and earn A's. I don't care what college she gets into and I honesty don't care if she graduates with a 3.0 in private vs a 4.5 in public. She is learning and understand more NOW and that is all I care about.

I am responding to the post in italics. I do not have direct experience with a private school but what you are describing sounds a little similar to my child's experience in the middle school and magnet programs. The main difference is that they do not get as much individualized attention from the teachers because the class sizes are much larger (25 students per class). They do however have a challenging and enriched curriculum, complex assignments, group projects etc. My child has learned to do in depth research, write a ten page paper, present and defend his work. The teachers have very high expectations and they also expect the students to advocate for themselves. I would never dream of emailing my child's high school teacher with a question about homework or anything minor. I would get in touch if my child was struggling in a class and I was sure he had explored options such as asking the teacher for help on his own. Straight As are hard to come by in these programs. I think there might have been a half dozen kids who managed this every quarter for three years in his middle school magnet for example. I have also noticed that there is more of an emphasis on the learning experience in these programs. In other words, getting good grades or doing well in a test is not what the teachers emphasize- they do not spend any/much time on prepping for standardized tests. They want the kids to be articulate and critical thinkers, to be strong writers and communicators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do you have any first-hand experience with MoCo schools vs. private? I do. We spent a total of ten years in MCPS with two kids before giving up and going private. There is FAR more grade inflation in MCPS than at private school, and the work is far more rigorous - lots of writing, creative thinking, project-based work, and NO MULTIPLE CHOICE WORKSHEETS! Read the article in Bethesda Magazine - very illuminating. Our county officials believe they have to choose between helping the immigrant children who will may not graduate, and the offspring of college-educated affluent people. Sadly, that's not the real choice. They need to do both. Our "good" schools are far behind those of other developed nations. We need to challenge all our kids to excel.

Yes I do. There are tons of 'valedictorians' in private school with mediocre SATs. That doesn't happen at public schools. At a MoCo high school there are perfect SATs with an unweighted 3.5.

It's also better for kids in the long run not to be coddled like they are in a private school. I also see the results of those coddled children at the university -- shocked at their first "B".

My daughter moved to Holton-Arms with a 4.75 GPA and received two C's, mostly B's and only 3 A's all year her first year and nothing above a 92. Not final grades, each quarter grades. She was shocked at the expectations. But she also went from a Spanish class of 33 to 9 kids. She moved from a school with maybe 1/3 of the kids wanted to learn to a school where 100% want to learn. The teachers have so much more time invested in each child. They meet with them, they chat via email, no one skates by. The parents? We don't even know the grades unless we email a teacher and ask for an update. The kids have full autonomy and are required to self-advocate. There is no one in that school getting easy grades. The report cards alone are like 3-4 pages with in depth write-ups for each class. It has been amazing to watch her go from "I am so smart, school is so easy" to becoming humbled around a lot of high achieving teachers and girls and truly having to work hard and earn A's. I don't care what college she gets into and I honesty don't care if she graduates with a 3.0 in private vs a 4.5 in public. She is learning and understand more NOW and that is all I care about.

I am responding to the post in italics. I do not have direct experience with a private school but what you are describing sounds a little similar to my child's experience in the middle school and magnet programs. The main difference is that they do not get as much individualized attention from the teachers because the class sizes are much larger (25 students per class). They do however have a challenging and enriched curriculum, complex assignments, group projects etc. My child has learned to do in depth research, write a ten page paper, present and defend his work. The teachers have very high expectations and they also expect the students to advocate for themselves. I would never dream of emailing my child's high school teacher with a question about homework or anything minor. I would get in touch if my child was struggling in a class and I was sure he had explored options such as asking the teacher for help on his own. Straight As are hard to come by in these programs. I think there might have been a half dozen kids who managed this every quarter for three years in his middle school magnet for example. I have also noticed that there is more of an emphasis on the learning experience in these programs. In other words, getting good grades or doing well in a test is not what the teachers emphasize- they do not spend any/much time on prepping for standardized tests. They want the kids to be articulate and critical thinkers, to be strong writers and communicators.

So why should selective magnet programs pulled by a lottery be the ONLY kids that get this type of learning? My child is not in a magnet or IB because I refuse to have 2 hours of their day commuting and we purchased our home to be in a community and go to school with their peers. I wish he had only 25 kids in his class. The last time that happened was 2nd grade. So you trying to compare a small pool of public school kids as what the norm is in MCPS is a tad narrow-minded. Not everyone can send their kids to a HGC, magnet or IB halfway across the county and you're how great the school system is. Reading your post makes me realize how awful our school district has become.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do you have any first-hand experience with MoCo schools vs. private? I do. We spent a total of ten years in MCPS with two kids before giving up and going private. There is FAR more grade inflation in MCPS than at private school, and the work is far more rigorous - lots of writing, creative thinking, project-based work, and NO MULTIPLE CHOICE WORKSHEETS! Read the article in Bethesda Magazine - very illuminating. Our county officials believe they have to choose between helping the immigrant children who will may not graduate, and the offspring of college-educated affluent people. Sadly, that's not the real choice. They need to do both. Our "good" schools are far behind those of other developed nations. We need to challenge all our kids to excel.

Yes I do. There are tons of 'valedictorians' in private school with mediocre SATs. That doesn't happen at public schools. At a MoCo high school there are perfect SATs with an unweighted 3.5.

It's also better for kids in the long run not to be coddled like they are in a private school. I also see the results of those coddled children at the university -- shocked at their first "B".

My daughter moved to Holton-Arms with a 4.75 GPA and received two C's, mostly B's and only 3 A's all year her first year and nothing above a 92. Not final grades, each quarter grades. She was shocked at the expectations. But she also went from a Spanish class of 33 to 9 kids. She moved from a school with maybe 1/3 of the kids wanted to learn to a school where 100% want to learn. The teachers have so much more time invested in each child. They meet with them, they chat via email, no one skates by. The parents? We don't even know the grades unless we email a teacher and ask for an update. The kids have full autonomy and are required to self-advocate. There is no one in that school getting easy grades. The report cards alone are like 3-4 pages with in depth write-ups for each class. It has been amazing to watch her go from "I am so smart, school is so easy" to becoming humbled around a lot of high achieving teachers and girls and truly having to work hard and earn A's. I don't care what college she gets into and I honesty don't care if she graduates with a 3.0 in private vs a 4.5 in public. She is learning and understand more NOW and that is all I care about.

I am responding to the post in italics. I do not have direct experience with a private school but what you are describing sounds a little similar to my child's experience in the middle school and magnet programs. The main difference is that they do not get as much individualized attention from the teachers because the class sizes are much larger (25 students per class). They do however have a challenging and enriched curriculum, complex assignments, group projects etc. My child has learned to do in depth research, write a ten page paper, present and defend his work. The teachers have very high expectations and they also expect the students to advocate for themselves. I would never dream of emailing my child's high school teacher with a question about homework or anything minor. I would get in touch if my child was struggling in a class and I was sure he had explored options such as asking the teacher for help on his own. Straight As are hard to come by in these programs. I think there might have been a half dozen kids who managed this every quarter for three years in his middle school magnet for example. I have also noticed that there is more of an emphasis on the learning experience in these programs. In other words, getting good grades or doing well in a test is not what the teachers emphasize- they do not spend any/much time on prepping for standardized tests. They want the kids to be articulate and critical thinkers, to be strong writers and communicators.

So why should selective magnet programs pulled by a lottery be the ONLY kids that get this type of learning? My child is not in a magnet or IB because I refuse to have 2 hours of their day commuting and we purchased our home to be in a community and go to school with their peers. I wish he had only 25 kids in his class. The last time that happened was 2nd grade. So you trying to compare a small pool of public school kids as what the norm is in MCPS is a tad narrow-minded. Not everyone can send their kids to a HGC, magnet or IB halfway across the county and you're how great the school system is. Reading your post makes me realize how awful our school district has become.

My kid is not in a magnet program and had the same experience as the poster to whom you are responding. That has been our experience since elementary school. Different schools different experiences, but your experience certainly does not prove that MCPS has gone to hell in a handbasket.

[Anonymous]

Even kids in the magnet programs spend 5 of 9 courses with the regular high school. So I'm aware of the range of classes (AP, Honors, language, arts, etc) available at the DCC. I stand by them.

There is no lottery for those magnet programs, by the way.

I don't expect anyone who is devoted to a private school to change their minds about the merits of a public school. Those parents have a vested interest in justifying their decision -- otherwise it is an expensive mistake.

This conversation should hopefully just show those on the fence or unsure about their decision that there are merits to the public school option, that the education is solid, that you as parents have more to do with your child's success, and that there are invested, academically-focused families throughout MoCo public schools including in the DCC.

I could purchase a house anywhere in the county and I picked 20901 (Silver Spring).

[Anonymous]

I think it is very misleading to compare a selective private high school like Holton Arms to a public HS in MCPS. Of course you will get smaller class sizes and more individualized attention. I would however hesitate to draw the conclusion that all private high schools are better than MCPS high schools. There are lots of private high schools that are not as difficult to get into where you get a broader range of students with different abilities. I believe that is what a previous poster who described their child's experience in a magnet middle school was getting at. If you have a group of kids who are all at roughly the same level it is indeed possible to provide a rigorous and enriched curriculum even with 25 or more students. There have been numerous cross-country studies that have demonstrated that class size does not matter so much if the students are at the same level especially in the higher grades.
If you want your child to have the kind of experience magnet kids have perhaps you should advocate for more ability grouping in schools especially in 4-8 grades. Just imagine how much their teachers could do if they were teaching an entire class of children who are all on more or less the same level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it is very misleading to compare a selective private high school like Holton Arms to a public HS in MCPS. Of course you will get smaller class sizes and more individualized attention. I would however hesitate to draw the conclusion that all private high schools are better than MCPS high schools. There are lots of private high schools that are not as difficult to get into where you get a broader range of students with different abilities. I believe that is what a previous poster who described their child's experience in a magnet middle school was getting at. If you have a group of kids who are all at roughly the same level it is indeed possible to provide a rigorous and enriched curriculum even with 25 or more students. There have been numerous cross-country studies that have demonstrated that class size does not matter so much if the students are at the same level especially in the higher grades.
If you want your child to have the kind of experience magnet kids have perhaps you should advocate for more ability grouping in schools especially in 4-8 grades. Just imagine how much their teachers could do if they were teaching an entire class of children who are all on more or less the same level.

You mean what MCPS did with ES Math prior to 2.0. The kids would move to ability based math classes with a different teacher in the afternoon. It was great but they got rid of it and started more busy work with 10min small group lessons in their same homeroom class. Do you honestly think MCPS will bring back the old way and say they were wrong? Ability based grouping will never happen in MCPS because the majority of the AA and Latino kids are in the lower abilities and the Whites and Asians are in the higher. It is not PC to show how apparent that is. It would start a racial divide on the "white/asians getting a better education" even though the lower classes need smaller sizes/direct help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is very misleading to compare a selective private high school like Holton Arms to a public HS in MCPS. Of course you will get smaller class sizes and more individualized attention. I would however hesitate to draw the conclusion that all private high schools are better than MCPS high schools. There are lots of private high schools that are not as difficult to get into where you get a broader range of students with different abilities. I believe that is what a previous poster who described their child's experience in a magnet middle school was getting at. If you have a group of kids who are all at roughly the same level it is indeed possible to provide a rigorous and enriched curriculum even with 25 or more students. There have been numerous cross-country studies that have demonstrated that class size does not matter so much if the students are at the same level especially in the higher grades.
If you want your child to have the kind of experience magnet kids have perhaps you should advocate for more ability grouping in schools especially in 4-8 grades. Just imagine how much their teachers could do if they were teaching an entire class of children who are all on more or less the same level.

You mean what MCPS did with ES Math prior to 2.0. The kids would move to ability based math classes with a different teacher in the afternoon. It was great but they got rid of it and started more busy work with 10min small group lessons in their same homeroom class. Do you honestly think MCPS will bring back the old way and say they were wrong? Ability based grouping will never happen in MCPS because the majority of the AA and Latino kids are in the lower abilities and the Whites and Asians are in the higher. It is not PC to show how apparent that is. It would start a racial divide on the "white/asians getting a better education" even though the lower classes need smaller sizes/direct help.

Our elementary school still has the system described above for 3rd - 5th. Yes, the differentiation is in class in K-2, but our experience is that that the reading differentiation has been pretty good. The math a little less so.

[Anonymous]

Probably not just MoCo; when you correct off SES and demographics, MD is near the bottom of the list.

http://www.urban.org/urban-wire/how-do-states-really-stack-2015-naep

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is very misleading to compare a selective private high school like Holton Arms to a public HS in MCPS. Of course you will get smaller class sizes and more individualized attention. I would however hesitate to draw the conclusion that all private high schools are better than MCPS high schools. There are lots of private high schools that are not as difficult to get into where you get a broader range of students with different abilities. I believe that is what a previous poster who described their child's experience in a magnet middle school was getting at. If you have a group of kids who are all at roughly the same level it is indeed possible to provide a rigorous and enriched curriculum even with 25 or more students. There have been numerous cross-country studies that have demonstrated that class size does not matter so much if the students are at the same level especially in the higher grades.
If you want your child to have the kind of experience magnet kids have perhaps you should advocate for more ability grouping in schools especially in 4-8 grades. Just imagine how much their teachers could do if they were teaching an entire class of children who are all on more or less the same level.

You mean what MCPS did with ES Math prior to 2.0. The kids would move to ability based math classes with a different teacher in the afternoon. It was great but they got rid of it and started more busy work with 10min small group lessons in their same homeroom class. Do you honestly think MCPS will bring back the old way and say they were wrong? Ability based grouping will never happen in MCPS because the majority of the AA and Latino kids are in the lower abilities and the Whites and Asians are in the higher. It is not PC to show how apparent that is. It would start a racial divide on the "white/asians getting a better education" even though the lower classes need smaller sizes/direct help.

Our elementary school still has the system described above for 3rd - 5th. Yes, the differentiation is in class in K-2, but our experience is that that the reading differentiation has been pretty good. The math a little less so.

My now 6th grader had ability based math groups in upper ES as well...and news flash to the poster writing about race...my son was in the highest performing math ability group and his group mates were a diverse group of children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Probably not just MoCo; when you correct off SES and demographics, MD is near the bottom of the list.

http://www.urban.org/urban-wire/how-do-states-really-stack-2015-naep

"correct for" ...