Second community meeting on Choice Study?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nope, they're not. In almost all tests out there Hispanics slightly out score Blacks. Might not always be the case in MoCo because we get a lot of kids of poor non-English speaking immigrants, but in general this pattern holds for most things like IQ, SAT scores, crime rates, house hold income, school suspension rates etc. It's frankly amazing how consistent this pattern is. Hell, it even holds for STD rates.

"Hispanic/Latino" is not a race. There are black people who are Hispanic/Latino. There are Hispanic/Latino people who are black.

I wish I had a nickel for every time I've typed that out on DCUM.

And you know perfectly well that the vast majority of Hispanics in the US are of mixed Spanish and indigenous backgrounds. Shoot, 65% are from Mexico. While there are some black people who are Hispanic, the group as a whole is overwhelmingly Spanish/indigenous.

You've said that before, you were asked for data to support your assertion, you didn't provide any, data were provided that disproved your assertion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nope, they're not. In almost all tests out there Hispanics slightly out score Blacks. Might not always be the case in MoCo because we get a lot of kids of poor non-English speaking immigrants, but in general this pattern holds for most things like IQ, SAT scores, crime rates, house hold income, school suspension rates etc. It's frankly amazing how consistent this pattern is. Hell, it even holds for STD rates.

"Hispanic/Latino" is not a race. There are black people who are Hispanic/Latino. There are Hispanic/Latino people who are black.

I wish I had a nickel for every time I've typed that out on DCUM.

While I agree with you 100%, its irrelevant here because MCPS makes you effectively choose. There are intricacies of the Hispanic group, biracial group, etc. that aren't even being looked at here. AND labeling is part of the problem.

Yes, MCPS makes you pick one (which I wish they wouldn't, but they didn't ask me). So it's irrelevant in the context of MCPS. But it's very relevant in the context of the line the IQ poster is peddling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nope, they're not. In almost all tests out there Hispanics slightly out score Blacks. Might not always be the case in MoCo because we get a lot of kids of poor non-English speaking immigrants, but in general this pattern holds for most things like IQ, SAT scores, crime rates, house hold income, school suspension rates etc. It's frankly amazing how consistent this pattern is. Hell, it even holds for STD rates.

"Hispanic/Latino" is not a race. There are black people who are Hispanic/Latino. There are Hispanic/Latino people who are black.

I wish I had a nickel for every time I've typed that out on DCUM.

While I agree with you 100%, its irrelevant here because MCPS makes you effectively choose. There are intricacies of the Hispanic group, biracial group, etc. that aren't even being looked at here. AND labeling is part of the problem.

Yes, MCPS makes you pick one (which I wish they wouldn't, but they didn't ask me). So it's irrelevant in the context of MCPS. But it's very relevant in the context of the line the IQ poster is peddling.

Sure, not only that but country of origin is also important not only with Hispanics but Asians and other groups. Not only that it's very interesting to me that the multiracial designation is always high performing, especially knowing that clearly there are "multiracial" kids in all the other groups that don't identify as such. What's the composition of this group, why are they high achieving, is there something culturally relevant where just recognizing you are multiracial changes outcomes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If there are high achieving black and latinos who could compete and get admission into the magnet programs, but are not in the program because of lack of information or because of lack of space in the program, then I can assure you for each of such AA/HI student, there are tens of White/Asian students who are being excluded. I think a bigger injustice is being done to these Asian/White students - because MCPS wants to play the race card and the numbers game. A brain is a terrible thing to waste.

You just said that it's a bigger injustice when a qualified Asian or white student does not get to participate in the HGC than when a qualified black or Latino student does not get to participate in the HGC.

That's appalling.

I did not say that and you are lacking reading comprehension.

It is not 1 to 1 comparison. I am pointing out that an exponential number of qualified Asians/Whites are being denied admission for every single qualified AA/HI student. So, the educational needs of scores of qualified Asians/Whites students does not matter as compared to one qualified AA /HI student?

Every eligible student should be made to take the admission test. If there is a need to have more seats, then create more seats. If the additional cost of the magnet program is only $40 per student, then MCPS should make the parents pay that amount or ask the parents to fundraise for it.

If an eligible AA/HI student did not get the education they deserve then it is as much a travesty as when an eligible Asian/White student did not get the education they deserve. Why have different standards for different people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nope, they're not. In almost all tests out there Hispanics slightly out score Blacks. Might not always be the case in MoCo because we get a lot of kids of poor non-English speaking immigrants, but in general this pattern holds for most things like IQ, SAT scores, crime rates, house hold income, school suspension rates etc. It's frankly amazing how consistent this pattern is. Hell, it even holds for STD rates.

"Hispanic/Latino" is not a race. There are black people who are Hispanic/Latino. There are Hispanic/Latino people who are black.

I wish I had a nickel for every time I've typed that out on DCUM.

While I agree with you 100%, its irrelevant here because MCPS makes you effectively choose. There are intricacies of the Hispanic group, biracial group, etc. that aren't even being looked at here. AND labeling is part of the problem.

Yes, MCPS makes you pick one (which I wish they wouldn't, but they didn't ask me). So it's irrelevant in the context of MCPS. But it's very relevant in the context of the line the IQ poster is peddling.

Sure, not only that but country of origin is also important not only with Hispanics but Asians and other groups. Not only that it's very interesting to me that the multiracial designation is always high performing, especially knowing that clearly there are "multiracial" kids in all the other groups that don't identify as such. What's the composition of this group, why are they high achieving, is there something culturally relevant where just recognizing you are multiracial changes outcomes?

My kids are biracial. Typically, people who are open to marrying and procreating with different races are more open-minded and more educated, around metro area, at least. I know several biracial families like us. Growing up, I have known several biracial children, too, of all kinds, black/white, asian/white, black/asian. Every single one was pretty bright.

Sort of joking here, but maybe it's also because our gene pool is much more varied. IDK. I joke with DH that we could never be long lost first cousins or siblings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nope, they're not. In almost all tests out there Hispanics slightly out score Blacks. Might not always be the case in MoCo because we get a lot of kids of poor non-English speaking immigrants, but in general this pattern holds for most things like IQ, SAT scores, crime rates, house hold income, school suspension rates etc. It's frankly amazing how consistent this pattern is. Hell, it even holds for STD rates.

"Hispanic/Latino" is not a race. There are black people who are Hispanic/Latino. There are Hispanic/Latino people who are black.

I wish I had a nickel for every time I've typed that out on DCUM.

While I agree with you 100%, its irrelevant here because MCPS makes you effectively choose. There are intricacies of the Hispanic group, biracial group, etc. that aren't even being looked at here. AND labeling is part of the problem.

Yes, MCPS makes you pick one (which I wish they wouldn't, but they didn't ask me). So it's irrelevant in the context of MCPS. But it's very relevant in the context of the line the IQ poster is peddling.

Sure, not only that but country of origin is also important not only with Hispanics but Asians and other groups. Not only that it's very interesting to me that the multiracial designation is always high performing, especially knowing that clearly there are "multiracial" kids in all the other groups that don't identify as such. What's the composition of this group, why are they high achieving, is there something culturally relevant where just recognizing you are multiracial changes outcomes?

My kids are biracial. Typically, people who are open to marrying and procreating with different races are more open-minded and more educated, around metro area, at least. I know several biracial families like us. Growing up, I have known several biracial children, too, of all kinds, black/white, asian/white, black/asian. Every single one was pretty bright.

Sort of joking here, but maybe it's also because our gene pool is much more varied. IDK. I joke with DH that we could never be long lost first cousins or siblings.

Yes but virtually the group called Hispanics is multiracial, a large chunk of AA are multiracial even though they don't identify as such. What is it about identifying as multiracial changes the outcome.

[Anonymous]

Er meant to say "virtually the whole group"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes but virtually the group called Hispanics is multiracial, a large chunk of AA are multiracial even though they don't identify as such. What is it about identifying as multiracial changes the outcome.

My guess is that there's a good correlation between higher SES and identifying as multiracial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If there are high achieving black and latinos who could compete and get admission into the magnet programs, but are not in the program because of lack of information or because of lack of space in the program, then I can assure you for each of such AA/HI student, there are tens of White/Asian students who are being excluded. I think a bigger injustice is being done to these Asian/White students - because MCPS wants to play the race card and the numbers game. A brain is a terrible thing to waste.

You just said that it's a bigger injustice when a qualified Asian or white student does not get to participate in the HGC than when a qualified black or Latino student does not get to participate in the HGC.

That's appalling.

I did not say that and you are lacking reading comprehension.

It is not 1 to 1 comparison. I am pointing out that an exponential number of qualified Asians/Whites are being denied admission for every single qualified AA/HI student. So, the educational needs of scores of qualified Asians/Whites students does not matter as compared to one qualified AA /HI student?

Every eligible student should be made to take the admission test. If there is a need to have more seats, then create more seats. If the additional cost of the magnet program is only $40 per student, then MCPS should make the parents pay that amount or ask the parents to fundraise for it.

If an eligible AA/HI student did not get the education they deserve then it is as much a travesty as when an eligible Asian/White student did not get the education they deserve. Why have different standards for different people?

I'd say you're both wrong. The PP who misunderstood you was jumping to conclusions. But the things you throw around are completely unsubstantiated. Exponential number of qualified Asians/Whites? What does that even mean and where's your evidence this is happening. There was the comparison of PARCC scores to HGC admissions which showed by that measure Asians are under represented by about 3%, Blacks over represented by about the same. But those numbers are trivial, one for one, and well within the expected given PARCC is not an entrance exam for the HGC. I just see no evidence that scores of qualified Asians/Whites have been turned away or that any other race has been admitted in unfair numbers.

Your reading comprehension is no better, the special programs do not cost $40 per student in the program, they cost $40 per student in the county!!! The administrative cost per student in the programs is $1,450 for each of the 880 students in the HGC and $4,750 for each of the 830 students in the MS/HS programs. This is above and beyond what it already costs to educate a child in MCPS. Not clear how these costs would scale if the program expanded but donations won't suffice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'd say you're both wrong. The PP who misunderstood you was jumping to conclusions. But the things you throw around are completely unsubstantiated. Exponential number of qualified Asians/Whites? What does that even mean and where's your evidence this is happening. There was the comparison of PARCC scores to HGC admissions which showed by that measure Asians are under represented by about 3%, Blacks over represented by about the same. But those numbers are trivial, one for one, and well within the expected given PARCC is not an entrance exam for the HGC. I just see no evidence that scores of qualified Asians/Whites have been turned away or that any other race has been admitted in unfair numbers.

Your reading comprehension is no better, the special programs do not cost $40 per student in the program, they cost $40 per student in the county!!! The administrative cost per student in the programs is $1,450 for each of the 880 students in the HGC and $4,750 for each of the 830 students in the MS/HS programs. This is above and beyond what it already costs to educate a child in MCPS. Not clear how these costs would scale if the program expanded but donations won't suffice.

It means 2.718 (approximately).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nope, they're not. In almost all tests out there Hispanics slightly out score Blacks. Might not always be the case in MoCo because we get a lot of kids of poor non-English speaking immigrants, but in general this pattern holds for most things like IQ, SAT scores, crime rates, house hold income, school suspension rates etc. It's frankly amazing how consistent this pattern is. Hell, it even holds for STD rates.

"Hispanic/Latino" is not a race. There are black people who are Hispanic/Latino. There are Hispanic/Latino people who are black.

I wish I had a nickel for every time I've typed that out on DCUM.

While I agree with you 100%, its irrelevant here because MCPS makes you effectively choose. There are intricacies of the Hispanic group, biracial group, etc. that aren't even being looked at here. AND labeling is part of the problem.

Yes, MCPS makes you pick one (which I wish they wouldn't, but they didn't ask me). So it's irrelevant in the context of MCPS. But it's very relevant in the context of the line the IQ poster is peddling.

Sure, not only that but country of origin is also important not only with Hispanics but Asians and other groups. Not only that it's very interesting to me that the multiracial designation is always high performing, especially knowing that clearly there are "multiracial" kids in all the other groups that don't identify as such. What's the composition of this group, why are they high achieving, is there something culturally relevant where just recognizing you are multiracial changes outcomes?

My kids are biracial. Typically, people who are open to marrying and procreating with different races are more open-minded and more educated, around metro area, at least. I know several biracial families like us. Growing up, I have known several biracial children, too, of all kinds, black/white, asian/white, black/asian. Every single one was pretty bright.

Sort of joking here, but maybe it's also because our gene pool is much more varied. IDK. I joke with DH that we could never be long lost first cousins or siblings.

Yes but virtually the group called Hispanics is multiracial, a large chunk of AA are multiracial even though they don't identify as such. What is it about identifying as multiracial changes the outcome.

Most people define race pretty simply. I am Asian; spouse is white. We check "more than 2 races" on the forms. It's "multi race", not "multi culture".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If there are high achieving black and latinos who could compete and get admission into the magnet programs, but are not in the program because of lack of information or because of lack of space in the program, then I can assure you for each of such AA/HI student, there are tens of White/Asian students who are being excluded. I think a bigger injustice is being done to these Asian/White students - because MCPS wants to play the race card and the numbers game. A brain is a terrible thing to waste.

You just said that it's a bigger injustice when a qualified Asian or white student does not get to participate in the HGC than when a qualified black or Latino student does not get to participate in the HGC.

That's appalling.

I did not say that and you are lacking reading comprehension.

It is not 1 to 1 comparison. I am pointing out that an exponential number of qualified Asians/Whites are being denied admission for every single qualified AA/HI student. So, the educational needs of scores of qualified Asians/Whites students does not matter as compared to one qualified AA /HI student?

Every eligible student should be made to take the admission test. If there is a need to have more seats, then create more seats. If the additional cost of the magnet program is only $40 per student, then MCPS should make the parents pay that amount or ask the parents to fundraise for it.

If an eligible AA/HI student did not get the education they deserve then it is as much a travesty as when an eligible Asian/White student did not get the education they deserve. Why have different standards for different people?

I'd say you're both wrong. The PP who misunderstood you was jumping to conclusions. But the things you throw around are completely unsubstantiated. Exponential number of qualified Asians/Whites? What does that even mean and where's your evidence this is happening. There was the comparison of PARCC scores to HGC admissions which showed by that measure Asians are under represented by about 3%, Blacks over represented by about the same. But those numbers are trivial, one for one, and well within the expected given PARCC is not an entrance exam for the HGC. I just see no evidence that scores of qualified Asians/Whites have been turned away or that any other race has been admitted in unfair numbers.

Your reading comprehension is no better, the special programs do not cost $40 per student in the program, they cost $40 per student in the county!!! The administrative cost per student in the programs is $1,450 for each of the 880 students in the HGC and $4,750 for each of the 830 students in the MS/HS programs. This is above and beyond what it already costs to educate a child in MCPS. Not clear how these costs would scale if the program expanded but donations won't suffice.

But you are making the assumption that most kids cost the same amount..some kids use the school counselor..some kids use ESOL classes..some kids have PYP or MYP programs in their schools..some kids take compact math..some kids use special keyboards/equipment...after school at risk programs..sports...on and on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'd say you're both wrong. The PP who misunderstood you was jumping to conclusions. But the things you throw around are completely unsubstantiated. Exponential number of qualified Asians/Whites? What does that even mean and where's your evidence this is happening. There was the comparison of PARCC scores to HGC admissions which showed by that measure Asians are under represented by about 3%, Blacks over represented by about the same. But those numbers are trivial, one for one, and well within the expected given PARCC is not an entrance exam for the HGC. I just see no evidence that scores of qualified Asians/Whites have been turned away or that any other race has been admitted in unfair numbers.

Your reading comprehension is no better, the special programs do not cost $40 per student in the program, they cost $40 per student in the county!!! The administrative cost per student in the programs is $1,450 for each of the 880 students in the HGC and $4,750 for each of the 830 students in the MS/HS programs. This is above and beyond what it already costs to educate a child in MCPS. Not clear how these costs would scale if the program expanded but donations won't suffice.

But you are making the assumption that most kids cost the same amount..some kids use the school counselor..some kids use ESOL classes..some kids have PYP or MYP programs in their schools..some kids take compact math..some kids use special keyboards/equipment...after school at risk programs..sports...on and on.

Yes, that's how averages work, mathematically. I'm not the PP you're responding to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'd say you're both wrong. The PP who misunderstood you was jumping to conclusions. But the things you throw around are completely unsubstantiated. Exponential number of qualified Asians/Whites? What does that even mean and where's your evidence this is happening. There was the comparison of PARCC scores to HGC admissions which showed by that measure Asians are under represented by about 3%, Blacks over represented by about the same. But those numbers are trivial, one for one, and well within the expected given PARCC is not an entrance exam for the HGC. I just see no evidence that scores of qualified Asians/Whites have been turned away or that any other race has been admitted in unfair numbers.

Your reading comprehension is no better, the special programs do not cost $40 per student in the program, they cost $40 per student in the county!!! The administrative cost per student in the programs is $1,450 for each of the 880 students in the HGC and $4,750 for each of the 830 students in the MS/HS programs. This is above and beyond what it already costs to educate a child in MCPS. Not clear how these costs would scale if the program expanded but donations won't suffice.

But you are making the assumption that most kids cost the same amount..some kids use the school counselor..some kids use ESOL classes..some kids have PYP or MYP programs in their schools..some kids take compact math..some kids use special keyboards/equipment...after school at risk programs..sports...on and on.

Yes, that's how averages work, mathematically. I'm not the PP you're responding to.

Yep. I'm the PP, it's a simple concept take the budget of MCPS and divide by the number of students, that's the average cost per student. Take the admin budget for the HGCs divide by number of HGC students, that's the average added overhead for each HGC student. If the HGCs and magnets went away, take that budget divide by all MCPS students, $40 more for everyone. Double the size of the magnets and ask every student in MCPS to give up $40. If you want to buy your child a slot in a magnet program, why don't you just check out privates?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'd say you're both wrong. The PP who misunderstood you was jumping to conclusions. But the things you throw around are completely unsubstantiated. Exponential number of qualified Asians/Whites? What does that even mean and where's your evidence this is happening. There was the comparison of PARCC scores to HGC admissions which showed by that measure Asians are under represented by about 3%, Blacks over represented by about the same. But those numbers are trivial, one for one, and well within the expected given PARCC is not an entrance exam for the HGC. I just see no evidence that scores of qualified Asians/Whites have been turned away or that any other race has been admitted in unfair numbers.

Your reading comprehension is no better, the special programs do not cost $40 per student in the program, they cost $40 per student in the county!!! The administrative cost per student in the programs is $1,450 for each of the 880 students in the HGC and $4,750 for each of the 830 students in the MS/HS programs. This is above and beyond what it already costs to educate a child in MCPS. Not clear how these costs would scale if the program expanded but donations won't suffice.

It means 2.718 (approximately).

Yes, Euler's number. But you aren't saying there are about 2.7 qualified Asians/whites for every Black/Hispanic. You said,

an exponential number of qualified Asians/Whites are being denied admission for every single qualified AA/HI student

even in non-technical circles that suggests exponential growth, not linear. Why you're obsessed with magnets when you're own understanding is so shallow, is beyond me.