Second community meeting on Choice Study?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. One child in magnet, one in local "W" feeder school. If the magnet were watered down, as it inevitably will have to be if decision-makers put demographics ahead of ability, then we would decide that the magnet is no longer worth the commute. Our child would return to our home school. I have no doubt that many if not most people from high-performing clusters will make similar decisions. Then you are left with more segregation than you had before. Remember that magnets were originally designed to voluntarily integrate schools. At TPMS, for example, magnet kids are integrated into the school for all classes except the three magnets. Take away a true magnet, and you take away the voluntary desegregation and are right back where MCPS started.

Now I have a sincere question for people who work for MCPS: do you, in real life, get told face-to-face by affluent parents that you should be grateful that they deign to send their children to your schools? Or is this something that (I hope) only happens anonymously on DCUM?

Sorry, but you are trying hard to make this a question of race, as in AA or HI kids are somehow discriminated against by not being represented proportionately to county population in the magnet programs. The reality is that AA and HI are not doing well in even basic tests like PARCC and MAP. They are falling behind in academics not only in MCPS but all over this nation. They have been given the same resources at school but are unable to do better because of their culture that looks down on academic achievements.

Every single student in the magnet program - White, Asian, HI or AA - deserves to be there and did not get in because of quota system. If you think that for some reason MCPS is not doing enough to let URM know about the magnet program, then let every eligible URM take the admission test. If they rank high enough to get selected then they be asked to complete the rest of the admission packet.

AA and HI parents are OUTRAGED that possibly a handful of AA and HI students could do well in magnet programs, but are not in the programs - without showing any proof that such students are even interested in these programs.

But scores of Asian and White students are denied admission because they score a point less than than the selected candidates in the admissions test. Expand the programs because there are many more students who deserve to be there - based on their academic performance.

[Anonymous]

Well put PP!

So I posted after the first meeting that I found it ironic that no Latinos were at the meeting. Someone posted that they would be as the second meeting. Didn't happen did it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. One child in magnet, one in local "W" feeder school. If the magnet were watered down, as it inevitably will have to be if decision-makers put demographics ahead of ability, then we would decide that the magnet is no longer worth the commute. Our child would return to our home school. I have no doubt that many if not most people from high-performing clusters will make similar decisions. Then you are left with more segregation than you had before. Remember that magnets were originally designed to voluntarily integrate schools. At TPMS, for example, magnet kids are integrated into the school for all classes except the three magnets. Take away a true magnet, and you take away the voluntary desegregation and are right back where MCPS started.

Now I have a sincere question for people who work for MCPS: do you, in real life, get told face-to-face by affluent parents that you should be grateful that they deign to send their children to your schools? Or is this something that (I hope) only happens anonymously on DCUM?

This comment doesn't make sense. Isn't it a historical fact that MCPS designed the magnest mainly if not entirely for desegregation purposes? (Serious question.) So isn't it reasonable for PP to assume that MCPS wouldn't want segregation to take place again? And isn't reasonable to assume that parents doing a cost-benefit analysis won't choose magnet programs if they change the program and if they have an academically-minded, closer, school alternative, so more segregation will happen? Am I missing something? (Again, serious question.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. One child in magnet, one in local "W" feeder school. If the magnet were watered down, as it inevitably will have to be if decision-makers put demographics ahead of ability, then we would decide that the magnet is no longer worth the commute. Our child would return to our home school. I have no doubt that many if not most people from high-performing clusters will make similar decisions. Then you are left with more segregation than you had before. Remember that magnets were originally designed to voluntarily integrate schools. At TPMS, for example, magnet kids are integrated into the school for all classes except the three magnets. Take away a true magnet, and you take away the voluntary desegregation and are right back where MCPS started.

Now I have a sincere question for people who work for MCPS: do you, in real life, get told face-to-face by affluent parents that you should be grateful that they deign to send their children to your schools? Or is this something that (I hope) only happens anonymously on DCUM?

This comment doesn't make sense. Isn't it a historical fact that MCPS designed the magnest mainly if not entirely for desegregation purposes? (Serious question.) So isn't it reasonable for PP to assume that MCPS wouldn't want segregation to take place again? And isn't reasonable to assume that parents doing a cost-benefit analysis won't choose magnet programs if they change the program and if they have an academically-minded, closer, school alternative, so more segregation will happen? Am I missing something? (Again, serious question.)

My kid is a smart, well-behaved kid. When MCPS does something that I don't like, I don't go to MCPS and say, "You should be thankful that my kid goes to your school! And if you don't stop doing this thing I don't like, I'm going to pull my kid out of school, and then where will you be? So there, ha!" Because that would be kind of entitled.

There are 156,447 students in MCPS. My child shouldn't be any less important to MCPS than the other 156,446 students, but my child also shouldn't be any more important to MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well put PP!

So I posted after the first meeting that I found it ironic that no Latinos were at the meeting. Someone posted that they would be as the second meeting. Didn't happen did it?

I think that your definition of "irony" must be different from mine. Because in my definition, it's not ironic that a group (in this case, Latinos who are poor) that doesn't do one thing that requires extra effort and resources that the group, by and large, doesn't have access to, also doesn't another thing that requires extra effort and resources that the group, by and large, doesn't have access to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well put PP!

So I posted after the first meeting that I found it ironic that no Latinos were at the meeting. Someone posted that they would be as the second meeting. Didn't happen did it?

I think that your definition of "irony" must be different from mine. Because in my definition, it's not ironic that a group (in this case, Latinos who are poor) that doesn't do one thing that requires extra effort and resources that the group, by and large, doesn't have access to, also doesn't another thing that requires extra effort and resources that the group, by and large, doesn't have access to.

so it's never occurs to you it is likely due to lack of interest? I have been to many Mcps meetings, Latino parents do show up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well put PP!

So I posted after the first meeting that I found it ironic that no Latinos were at the meeting. Someone posted that they would be as the second meeting. Didn't happen did it?

How would you know whether or not somebody is Latino?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well put PP!

So I posted after the first meeting that I found it ironic that no Latinos were at the meeting. Someone posted that they would be as the second meeting. Didn't happen did it?

How would you know whether or not somebody is Latino?

Bingo!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. One child in magnet, one in local "W" feeder school. If the magnet were watered down, as it inevitably will have to be if decision-makers put demographics ahead of ability, then we would decide that the magnet is no longer worth the commute. Our child would return to our home school. I have no doubt that many if not most people from high-performing clusters will make similar decisions. Then you are left with more segregation than you had before. Remember that magnets were originally designed to voluntarily integrate schools. At TPMS, for example, magnet kids are integrated into the school for all classes except the three magnets. Take away a true magnet, and you take away the voluntary desegregation and are right back where MCPS started.

Now I have a sincere question for people who work for MCPS: do you, in real life, get told face-to-face by affluent parents that you should be grateful that they deign to send their children to your schools? Or is this something that (I hope) only happens anonymously on DCUM?

This comment doesn't make sense. Isn't it a historical fact that MCPS designed the magnest mainly if not entirely for desegregation purposes? (Serious question.) So isn't it reasonable for PP to assume that MCPS wouldn't want segregation to take place again? And isn't reasonable to assume that parents doing a cost-benefit analysis won't choose magnet programs if they change the program and if they have an academically-minded, closer, school alternative, so more segregation will happen? Am I missing something? (Again, serious question.)

My kid is a smart, well-behaved kid. When MCPS does something that I don't like, I don't go to MCPS and say, "You should be thankful that my kid goes to your school! And if you don't stop doing this thing I don't like, I'm going to pull my kid out of school, and then where will you be? So there, ha!" Because that would be kind of entitled.

There are 156,447 students in MCPS. My child shouldn't be any less important to MCPS than the other 156,446 students, but my child also shouldn't be any more important to MCPS.

I'm 7:09. I agree with you, but how would those parents be doing that? I don't see that at all. They would simply be choosing to go to their zoned school instead of taking on the commute of the magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm 7:09. I agree with you, but how would those parents be doing that? I don't see that at all. They would simply be choosing to go to their zoned school instead of taking on the commute of the magnet.

No, they would be choosing to go to their zoned school instead of taking on the commute of the magnet AND THAT WOULD BE BAD FOR MCPS. That's the implication.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm 7:09. I agree with you, but how would those parents be doing that? I don't see that at all. They would simply be choosing to go to their zoned school instead of taking on the commute of the magnet.

No, they would be choosing to go to their zoned school instead of taking on the commute of the magnet AND THAT WOULD BE BAD FOR MCPS. That's the implication.

7:09 again. But *wouldn't it* in fact be bad for MCPS if MCPS wants to end segregated schools by income? Didn't *MCPS itself* communicate that that would be bad for MCPS by setting up the system to intentionally slow segregated schools? That's my question. Serious question. I'm not saying that situation would be right or wrong--not issuing any kind of moral judgment one way or the other but I think it's undeniable that MCPS itself would be the ones unhappy by their own design. Again, am I missing something?

[Anonymous]

Our home ES is about 40% Latino and 35 or 40% white. In the top reading groups, there are very few Latinos. And the ones that were Latino and in the top reading group were all middle or upper middle class. At least one of these kids (whose parents are well educated and upper middle class) went to an HGC and a MS magnet. But I don't think the kids who aren't in the top reading groups (regardless of race/ethnicity) are applying to these magnets. Certainly I have never heard of any child not in a top group actually being admitted to an HGC or MS magnet. At my child's HGC there were kids on FARMs and there were minorities. But not at all in proportion to the number of kids who are minorities or receiving FARMS. But the numbers were in proportion to the number of minorities in the top groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm 7:09. I agree with you, but how would those parents be doing that? I don't see that at all. They would simply be choosing to go to their zoned school instead of taking on the commute of the magnet.

No, they would be choosing to go to their zoned school instead of taking on the commute of the magnet AND THAT WOULD BE BAD FOR MCPS. That's the implication.

7:09 again. But *wouldn't it* in fact be bad for MCPS if MCPS wants to end segregated schools by income? Didn't *MCPS itself* communicate that that would be bad for MCPS by setting up the system to intentionally slow segregated schools? That's my question. Serious question. I'm not saying that situation would be right or wrong--not issuing any kind of moral judgment one way or the other but I think it's undeniable that MCPS itself would be the ones unhappy by their own design. Again, am I missing something?

No, it would not be bad for MCPS if the "take my ball and go home" PP took their child out of the magnet program and put the child back into the home school. Why would it be? Everybody agrees that there are far more qualified applicants for the spots than there are spots. The magnet program will get along just fine without the PP's child.

[Anonymous]

"No, it would not be bad for MCPS if the "take my ball and go home" PP took their child out of the magnet program and put the child back into the home school. Why would it be? Everybody agrees that there are far more qualified applicants for the spots than there are spots. The magnet program will get along just fine without the PP's child. "

7:09 again, LOL. Okay, I don't find this argument convincing in terms of my question. Yes, the magnet will be just fine without PP's child. Agreed. Let's stipulate that even if all those families left the magnets, the magnets would be fine. But that to me isn't the issue here and that wasn't really my question. The issue is that MCPS wanted to end income-segregated schools. And by that measure, it would be bad for MCPS *by MCPS' own admission!* I don't see how that can be in dispute at all since it was explicit on the part of MCPS. Anyway, we can just agree to disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our home ES is about 40% Latino and 35 or 40% white. In the top reading groups, there are very few Latinos. And the ones that were Latino and in the top reading group were all middle or upper middle class. At least one of these kids (whose parents are well educated and upper middle class) went to an HGC and a MS magnet. But I don't think the kids who aren't in the top reading groups (regardless of race/ethnicity) are applying to these magnets. Certainly I have never heard of any child not in a top group actually being admitted to an HGC or MS magnet. At my child's HGC there were kids on FARMs and there were minorities. But not at all in proportion to the number of kids who are minorities or receiving FARMS. But the numbers were in proportion to the number of minorities in the top groups.

I think this is pretty accurate. As stated numerous times, MCPS and parents should start with getting these kids in the upper reading/math groups rather than focusing on test in magnates.

As for choice magnets, it's a matter of being aware of the program and the desire to send your kid away from the neighborhood school. For us, we looked at the choice magnets, but the long commute turned us off to the program. For families that live not too far from the choice magnets, I would still think it's a hard decision to pull your kids away from their friends after ES.