Seriously, why does you child need AAP?

[Anonymous]

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Sadly, the only one's really being hurt in all of this are the truly gifted kids. They are still not getting the special education that would meet them at their appropriate level nor do they have a classroom environment that is appropriate to meet their needs.

Seriously, what happens to needy gifted kids when AAP ends after middle school? Please don't say AP or IB, because that can't possibly be enough for the students you describe. After all, anyone can enroll in those classes.

And what is really interesting is that sometimes the non-AAP kids do better in the AP and IB classes. "Giftedness" isn't necessarily about achieving, so even if there were special "gifted" classes for high schoolers, it wouldn't necessarily be an improvement. Plus, even gifted students have presumably learned how to handle school without special accommodation by 14 and up.

Without a doubt!

I wouldn't doubt it. I have/have had three kids in the AA program and none of them are super high achievers. They are often scattered, disorganized and reluctant to study for a test. They are naturally bright, but don't necessarily care a whole lot about achievement. They have both AA and non-AA peers who are the stereotypical overachiever types who go above and beyond at every opportunity and beat themselves up for an A-. I think sometimes people think that all AAP kids are like that, when it's often the opposite.

There are many students like this -- underachievement happens frequently.

http://www.giftedstudy.org/newsletter/pdf/underachievement_handbook.pdf

Guess those gifted kids who are underachievers may pick up on some techniques from those in AAP who some of you are looking down on as intellectually inferior to your geniuses. Since there is often group work, the high achievers can help pull your kids along with time management, goal orientation, focus, etc.

Sadly your logic is flawed. My genius (and that is documented) DC is being held back academically by your high achieving DC. The curriculum is still moving too slow for the top 1% of the aap class, which cause many of these kids to derail because they are bored or frustrated with the rate of academics and check out waiting for your kid to catch up. Meanwhile, your DC is a brown nosing, high achiever that many teachers love to teach because they are "easy" to have as students (behavior, not academic achievement). My DC is bored in math because kids have failed the tests and are being given the opportunity retake them. Clearly, these kids are slowing down the rate at which the material can be taught.

So, the curriculum is slowed so that your little snowflake can have a chance to keep up, which causes my DC to not receive the amount of academic instructions/rigor that is deserved. Then my DC's executive functioning issue get worse because she's bored with the slow curriculum. Finally, the teacher's who should be hired to teach actual gifted children are frustrated by my DC's disorganization and constant reading because my DC is checking out due to being bored.

Failed attempt....try again.

My child has a "documented" 150 FSIQ. She's still high achieving, not failing, not derailing, not holding anyone back, not frustrated, not frustrating, and not checking out. My child LOVES to read - wakes up reading, goes to sleep reading, reads at meals (if she is allowed), in the car, etc...but does not "check out" in school because of reading. Your post, however, explains a lot of your flawed reasoning. Your child is having all of those issues, as well as disorganization, as part of some executive functioning issues. By placing her wayyyyyyy up above others intellectually (in your mind), you can use that to excuse her boredom, frustration, disorganization , etc. Stop trying to blame others. It makes it far easier to accept flaws when you can blame someone else, though, doesn't it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sadly, the only one's really being hurt in all of this are the truly gifted kids. They are still not getting the special education that would meet them at their appropriate level nor do they have a classroom environment that is appropriate to meet their needs.

Seriously, what happens to needy gifted kids when AAP ends after middle school? Please don't say AP or IB, because that can't possibly be enough for the students you describe. After all, anyone can enroll in those classes.

And what is really interesting is that sometimes the non-AAP kids do better in the AP and IB classes. "Giftedness" isn't necessarily about achieving, so even if there were special "gifted" classes for high schoolers, it wouldn't necessarily be an improvement. Plus, even gifted students have presumably learned how to handle school without special accommodation by 14 and up.

Without a doubt!

I wouldn't doubt it. I have/have had three kids in the AA program and none of them are super high achievers. They are often scattered, disorganized and reluctant to study for a test. They are naturally bright, but don't necessarily care a whole lot about achievement. They have both AA and non-AA peers who are the stereotypical overachiever types who go above and beyond at every opportunity and beat themselves up for an A-. I think sometimes people think that all AAP kids are like that, when it's often the opposite.

There are many students like this -- underachievement happens frequently.

http://www.giftedstudy.org/newsletter/pdf/underachievement_handbook.pdf

Guess those gifted kids who are underachievers may pick up on some techniques from those in AAP who some of you are looking down on as intellectually inferior to your geniuses. Since there is often group work, the high achievers can help pull your kids along with time management, goal orientation, focus, etc.

Sadly your logic is flawed. My genius (and that is documented) DC is being held back academically by your high achieving DC. The curriculum is still moving too slow for the top 1% of the aap class, which cause many of these kids to derail because they are bored or frustrated with the rate of academics and check out waiting for your kid to catch up. Meanwhile, your DC is a brown nosing, high achiever that many teachers love to teach because they are "easy" to have as students (behavior, not academic achievement). My DC is bored in math because kids have failed the tests and are being given the opportunity retake them. Clearly, these kids are slowing down the rate at which the material can be taught.

So, the curriculum is slowed so that your little snowflake can have a chance to keep up, which causes my DC to not receive the amount of academic instructions/rigor that is deserved. Then my DC's executive functioning issue get worse because she's bored with the slow curriculum. Finally, the teacher's who should be hired to teach actual gifted children are frustrated by my DC's disorganization and constant reading because my DC is checking out due to being bored.

Failed attempt....try again.

My child has a "documented" 150 FSIQ. She's still high achieving, not failing, not derailing, not holding anyone back, not frustrated, not frustrating, and not checking out. My child LOVES to read - wakes up reading, goes to sleep reading, reads at meals (if she is allowed), in the car, etc...but does not "check out" in school because of reading. Your post, however, explains a lot of your flawed reasoning. Your child is having all of those issues, as well as disorganization, as part of some executive functioning issues. By placing her wayyyyyyy up above others intellectually (in your mind), you can use that to excuse her boredom, frustration, disorganization , etc. Stop trying to blame others. It makes it far easier to accept flaws when you can blame someone else, though, doesn't it?

If you actually look at the curriculum you will discover much of it is open ended. Except for math, they don't go at a faster pace, but they go into much more depth. So your snowflake can make deeper connections -- they can see what it means. The work is geared so that the pace is the same. But, one kid will describe how something happens, while another kid will go into depth as to why....

It will not show up on the report card: both will get 4's...but both kids are appropriately challenged.

AAP curriculum, IMHO, should be open to any child that can keep up.

(In math the accelerate; my DD is taking algebra now; some took it last year, a few took it in 6th grade).

[Anonymous]

DC is not at a center, but we are glad for the advanced math which otherwise moves at a snail's pace, more in depth thinking and writing, and more collaborative in depth projects. The school's advanced program is mixed with general ed for social studies and many of the kids in the groups had little interest in the projects and weren't able to complete assignments correctly. I don't think they would like AAP all day and no one has referred to move up over the years. Many of the GE kids are gifted at other activities. The school also has a robust level 3 program. There doesn't seem to be an issue with leveling at the school. Class size is another issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC is not at a center, but we are glad for the advanced math which otherwise moves at a snail's pace, more in depth thinking and writing, and more collaborative in depth projects. The school's advanced program is mixed with general ed for social studies and many of the kids in the groups had little interest in the projects and weren't able to complete assignments correctly. I don't think they would like AAP all day and no one has referred to move up over the years. Many of the GE kids are gifted at other activities. The school also has a robust level 3 program. There doesn't seem to be an issue with leveling at the school. Class size is another issue.

How do you define a robust level 3 program?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is not at a center, but we are glad for the advanced math which otherwise moves at a snail's pace, more in depth thinking and writing, and more collaborative in depth projects. The school's advanced program is mixed with general ed for social studies and many of the kids in the groups had little interest in the projects and weren't able to complete assignments correctly. I don't think they would like AAP all day and no one has referred to move up over the years. Many of the GE kids are gifted at other activities. The school also has a robust level 3 program. There doesn't seem to be an issue with leveling at the school. Class size is another issue.

How do you define a robust level 3 program?

I'd love a robust level 3 program. With 3 kids in the elementary school, I don't want any of my kids to go to a center unless they all go. I'd be satisfied with robust level 3 and just keep it at that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's only partially about a more challenging curriculum. It's also about being in class with kids who learn at the same pace and don't need as much repetition, so more of the curriculum can be covered in the same amount of time. Also, it's nice to be with kids who don't make fun of you for being smart and liking to read.

Kids make fun of other kids for all kinds of things. Yes, even in AAP.

Sure, but being made fun of for being smart can have a chilling effect on kids. Being with a peer group makes a big difference, and being able to learn at a faster pace with less repetition makes a huge difference to the kids that need it.

Second, first and kindergarteners made fun of your kid?

It sounds like you'd be surprised at the age that kids learn to make fun of others. And the age at which they start feeling jealousy.

I'm speaking from experience, but I moved from Florida to Northern Virginia in third grade. Seems like the parents in this area raised their kids better Still doesn't change the fact that 6-year-olds can feel jealousy and can know how to make fun of their peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's only partially about a more challenging curriculum. It's also about being in class with kids who learn at the same pace and don't need as much repetition, so more of the curriculum can be covered in the same amount of time. Also, it's nice to be with kids who don't make fun of you for being smart and liking to read.

Kids make fun of other kids for all kinds of things. Yes, even in AAP.

Sure, but being made fun of for being smart can have a chilling effect on kids. Being with a peer group makes a big difference, and being able to learn at a faster pace with less repetition makes a huge difference to the kids that need it.

Second, first and kindergarteners made fun of your kid?

It sounds like you'd be surprised at the age that kids learn to make fun of others. And the age at which they start feeling jealousy.

I'm speaking from experience, but I moved from Florida to Northern Virginia in third grade. Seems like the parents in this area raised their kids better Still doesn't change the fact that 6-year-olds can feel jealousy and can know how to make fun of their peers.

No, I'm surprised kids that age made fun of her kid for being smart. Never seen a 5 year old say, "You can read? What's up with YOU?!" Ridiculous. And the poster who said that corrected herself, anyway.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's only partially about a more challenging curriculum. It's also about being in class with kids who learn at the same pace and don't need as much repetition, so more of the curriculum can be covered in the same amount of time. Also, it's nice to be with kids who don't make fun of you for being smart and liking to read.

Kids make fun of other kids for all kinds of things. Yes, even in AAP.

Sure, but being made fun of for being smart can have a chilling effect on kids. Being with a peer group makes a big difference, and being able to learn at a faster pace with less repetition makes a huge difference to the kids that need it.

Second, first and kindergarteners made fun of your kid?

It sounds like you'd be surprised at the age that kids learn to make fun of others. And the age at which they start feeling jealousy.

I'm speaking from experience, but I moved from Florida to Northern Virginia in third grade. Seems like the parents in this area raised their kids better Still doesn't change the fact that 6-year-olds can feel jealousy and can know how to make fun of their peers.

No, I'm surprised kids that age made fun of her kid for being smart. Never seen a 5 year old say, "You can read? What's up with YOU?!" Ridiculous. And the poster who said that corrected herself, anyway.

They absolutely do if your kid (and especially a boy) takes their book out on the playground and reads instead of playing soccer. Or reads through lunch. It absolutely happened to my DS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's only partially about a more challenging curriculum. It's also about being in class with kids who learn at the same pace and don't need as much repetition, so more of the curriculum can be covered in the same amount of time. Also, it's nice to be with kids who don't make fun of you for being smart and liking to read.

Kids make fun of other kids for all kinds of things. Yes, even in AAP.

Sure, but being made fun of for being smart can have a chilling effect on kids. Being with a peer group makes a big difference, and being able to learn at a faster pace with less repetition makes a huge difference to the kids that need it.

Second, first and kindergarteners made fun of your kid?

It sounds like you'd be surprised at the age that kids learn to make fun of others. And the age at which they start feeling jealousy.

I'm speaking from experience, but I moved from Florida to Northern Virginia in third grade. Seems like the parents in this area raised their kids better Still doesn't change the fact that 6-year-olds can feel jealousy and can know how to make fun of their peers.

No, I'm surprised kids that age made fun of her kid for being smart. Never seen a 5 year old say, "You can read? What's up with YOU?!" Ridiculous. And the poster who said that corrected herself, anyway.

They absolutely do if your kid (and especially a boy) takes their book out on the playground and reads instead of playing soccer. Or reads through lunch. It absolutely happened to my DS.

He wasn't being made fun of then because he is smart. That's like saying a kid who dresses with a pocket protector was being made fun of in kindergarten for being smart. I imagine your child was probably "made fun" of by other 5 and 6 year olds because he "never plays soccer with us" not because "boy, he is so smart." Also, what elementary school teacher in this area is allowing your child, as a kindergartener, to bring a book on the playground during recess?

[Anonymous]

To the original question:

I have no idea what my child scored on any of the alphabet soup of tests that are constantly referenced on DCUM. My child entered AAP six years ago. Did AAP through ES and MS. At the time she entered, we weren't told until after the fact that she had had some tests and was qualified for AAP if we chose to send her to a center school, or she could get "pull-out" AAP once a week - yes, once a week for about an hour, for all that's worth, which is nothing-- at the base. No parents yakked about scores or tests or details like people do on here. I don't even know whether the tests always cited on here were even done at that time. It never came up. An AART just said, your child qualifies and here are your options.

No-brainer. Sent her to the center. Her first and second grade teachers at the base school both strongly advised that we send her to the center (and did the same with other families who had kids who qualified). Our base school had and still has a large proportion of students who need a lot of remedial help in academics and the teachers said that kids who did qualify for centers should go if the family could work it out. The centers were excellent and the teachers smart and engaged -- I can think of maybe three teachers over six years of AAP who were less than enthusiastic or good. The base school teachers were great too-- and they said quite frankly at that time that while they wanted to work with advanced students, they would not be able to provide the challenges or the curriculum to keep those kids engaged because the teachers had to focus on helping the kids who were in academic trouble.

[Anonymous]

For what it is worth, I understand. Being smart is not the same as being advanced intellectually.We need the AAP for our child for the same reason. More kids who share an academic mental process. I always wonder why some people react so vigorously to things they cannot even begin to fathom.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's only partially about a more challenging curriculum. It's also about being in class with kids who learn at the same pace and don't need as much repetition, so more of the curriculum can be covered in the same amount of time. Also, it's nice to be with kids who don't make fun of you for being smart and liking to read.

Kids make fun of other kids for all kinds of things. Yes, even in AAP.

Sure, but being made fun of for being smart can have a chilling effect on kids. Being with a peer group makes a big difference, and being able to learn at a faster pace with less repetition makes a huge difference to the kids that need it.

Second, first and kindergarteners made fun of your kid?

Yes. I would say that my DD was on the cusp of being bullied and certainly felt like an outcast. She was reading chapter books and Harry Potter on her own when she started K. In SACC, the older kids didn't want to play with a Kinder and the other Kindergarteners didn't want to play the same games she was interested in playing. So, when she did play when them, she either always won (in strategic games) and they so they started to excluded her or they would make up games to play (everyone draw a picture and one kid is the "judge" - they always told my DD that she had the worst drawing and was horrible at drawing). In class they didn't have anyone to pair her with for math games or LA games, so the asst teacher had to do them with her which made her feel like an outcast.

By 1st grade, the teacher was so frustrated with her that she spent most of the day in the "reading corner."

By 2nd, we were basically just biding time until she went to AAP and were hoping that it would be a better fit for her.

AAP has been a much better fit. She came home telling us that there are kids that don't make fun of her for talking about the things she likes and they like some of the same things. It was a relief for all of us.

So, yes, k, 1st, and 2nd graders can be mean and made fun of my kids.

Sorry, but I think that is a result of your child's personality and/or her behavior. You admit your child didn't want to play the types of games other kids played. She happened to find kids who like what she likes, but she could have found that anywhere, depending on the KIDS themselves - including herself. I have a feeling you helped perpetuate the belief that she probably had (and has) that she didn't have a friendship peer group because she was head and shoulders above the rest.

WHY was her 1st grade teacher frustrated with her? You say nothing about second other than you were biding your time until AAP started. FWIW, my AAP kid is "profoundly gifted" according to her FWIQ, and she always fit in socially. I don't think she "needs" AAP but I think it is great to have a program available to her in which she does well in easily.

Yes, my child didn't want to play typical board games and such that K students typically play. She was reading by 3yrs old, has an incredible memory, and is fascinated by science, math and history. The subjects that she was interested and the games she preferred to play were more in line with much older kids than with kids her own age. So, if that's a personality/behavior issue than okay.

She happened to find kids who like what she likes because she likes to discuss topics that kids her age typically don't like to discuss and at deeper levels than kids her age.

Oh, and so you feel better about it. Her dad and I have certainly been telling her she's a genius since she was a baby and look now she is! You didn't know that's how it works!! Hahaahaha...that's cute, but really? Not sure we could have willed her to max out the NNAT and CoGAT. Kinda thinking she's just a little weirdly smart.

Her 1st grade teacher was frustrated with her because she wanted to keep discussing topics in class in more depth and ask more questions because she already knew the material being presented. She wouldn't finish classroom assignments because she would start drawing or reading instead of doing the work. The teacher assumed she couldn't do the work until the NNAT test came back. Then she realized the work was so beneath her that she was bored to tears. She had basically been sending her to the "reading corner" as punishment or to just get her out of the way. That kind of backfired because she devours books - on the order of 1 to 1 1/2 per night (chapter books).

In 2nd grade, the teacher was much better and kept her engaged by giving her extra assignments and projects that she could do in class and home. She gave DD a 16 on the GBRS, so again, just guessing that it's not just us that recognizes one of our kids is not the norm.

I think she does NEED this program. Gen ed does not provide a sufficient education for her.

Do some research on gifted children before you make assumptions on a topic you know nothing about. Your DD seems to fall somewhere in the type 1 :the successful. My DD does not. If you knew anything about it or had a child like mine, you would realize that it's not easy to parent a child like this. Going to AAP is not a bragging right to us, it's a small step in the right direction when you have a DD like ours.

[Anonymous]

Are all AAP classes full of strange nerdy type kids? Are there any cute socially well adjusted fun kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are all AAP classes full of strange nerdy type kids? Are there any cute socially well adjusted fun kids?

About 10 years ago AAP served only truly cute and fun kids. Not so anymore, it's so watered down. My DD is the only cute kid in her class. It makes life hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are all AAP classes full of strange nerdy type kids? Are there any cute socially well adjusted fun kids?

About 10 years ago AAP served only truly cute and fun kids. Not so anymore, it's so watered down. My DD is the only cute kid in her class. It makes life hard.

I hear you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are all AAP classes full of strange nerdy type kids? Are there any cute socially well adjusted fun kids?

About 10 years ago AAP served only truly cute and fun kids. Not so anymore, it's so watered down. My DD is the only cute kid in her class. It makes life hard.

I hear you.

My child is the only cute genius in her class. Be thankful yours only has one cross to bear.