Seriously, why does you child need AAP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sadly, the only one's really being hurt in all of this are the truly gifted kids. They are still not getting the special education that would meet them at their appropriate level nor do they have a classroom environment that is appropriate to meet their needs.

Seriously, what happens to needy gifted kids when AAP ends after middle school? Please don't say AP or IB, because that can't possibly be enough for the students you describe. After all, anyone can enroll in those classes.

And what is really interesting is that sometimes the non-AAP kids do better in the AP and IB classes. "Giftedness" isn't necessarily about achieving, so even if there were special "gifted" classes for high schoolers, it wouldn't necessarily be an improvement. Plus, even gifted students have presumably learned how to handle school without special accommodation by 14 and up.

Without a doubt!

I wouldn't doubt it. I have/have had three kids in the AA program and none of them are super high achievers. They are often scattered, disorganized and reluctant to study for a test. They are naturally bright, but don't necessarily care a whole lot about achievement. They have both AA and non-AA peers who are the stereotypical overachiever types who go above and beyond at every opportunity and beat themselves up for an A-. I think sometimes people think that all AAP kids are like that, when it's often the opposite.

+1

There are many students like this -- underachievement happens frequently.

http://www.giftedstudy.org/newsletter/pdf/underachievement_handbook.pdf

Guess those gifted kids who are underachievers may pick up on some techniques from those in AAP who some of you are looking down on as intellectually inferior to your geniuses. Since there is often group work, the high achievers can help pull your kids along with time management, goal orientation, focus, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sadly, the only one's really being hurt in all of this are the truly gifted kids. They are still not getting the special education that would meet them at their appropriate level nor do they have a classroom environment that is appropriate to meet their needs.

Seriously, what happens to needy gifted kids when AAP ends after middle school? Please don't say AP or IB, because that can't possibly be enough for the students you describe. After all, anyone can enroll in those classes.

And what is really interesting is that sometimes the non-AAP kids do better in the AP and IB classes. "Giftedness" isn't necessarily about achieving, so even if there were special "gifted" classes for high schoolers, it wouldn't necessarily be an improvement. Plus, even gifted students have presumably learned how to handle school without special accommodation by 14 and up.

Without a doubt!

I wouldn't doubt it. I have/have had three kids in the AA program and none of them are super high achievers. They are often scattered, disorganized and reluctant to study for a test. They are naturally bright, but don't necessarily care a whole lot about achievement. They have both AA and non-AA peers who are the stereotypical overachiever types who go above and beyond at every opportunity and beat themselves up for an A-. I think sometimes people think that all AAP kids are like that, when it's often the opposite.

+1

There are many students like this -- underachievement happens frequently.

http://www.giftedstudy.org/newsletter/pdf/underachievement_handbook.pdf

Guess those gifted kids who are underachievers may pick up on some techniques from those in AAP who some of you are looking down on as intellectually inferior to your geniuses. Since there is often group work, the high achievers can help pull your kids along with time management, goal orientation, focus, etc.

I am guessing you do not have a kid with executive function issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sadly, the only one's really being hurt in all of this are the truly gifted kids. They are still not getting the special education that would meet them at their appropriate level nor do they have a classroom environment that is appropriate to meet their needs.

Seriously, what happens to needy gifted kids when AAP ends after middle school? Please don't say AP or IB, because that can't possibly be enough for the students you describe. After all, anyone can enroll in those classes.

And what is really interesting is that sometimes the non-AAP kids do better in the AP and IB classes. "Giftedness" isn't necessarily about achieving, so even if there were special "gifted" classes for high schoolers, it wouldn't necessarily be an improvement. Plus, even gifted students have presumably learned how to handle school without special accommodation by 14 and up.

Without a doubt!

I wouldn't doubt it. I have/have had three kids in the AA program and none of them are super high achievers. They are often scattered, disorganized and reluctant to study for a test. They are naturally bright, but don't necessarily care a whole lot about achievement. They have both AA and non-AA peers who are the stereotypical overachiever types who go above and beyond at every opportunity and beat themselves up for an A-. I think sometimes people think that all AAP kids are like that, when it's often the opposite.

+1

There are many students like this -- underachievement happens frequently.

http://www.giftedstudy.org/newsletter/pdf/underachievement_handbook.pdf

Guess those gifted kids who are underachievers may pick up on some techniques from those in AAP who some of you are looking down on as intellectually inferior to your geniuses. Since there is often group work, [b]the high achievers can help pull your kids along with time management, goal orientation, focus, etc.

I am guessing you do not have a kid with executive function issues.

No, but I'm being tongue in cheek when I say that, addressing the mother who keeps touting that only those who are highly gifted should be in the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm really confused as to why people who have children who score under 135 on a NNAT, CogAT, WISC or any other allowed test, think their child needs AAP and would somehow be disadvantaged in a general education classroom in a place like FCPS when the average score in a general education class is probably 119 - 134 anyway. Why does your child need AAP?

Why don't you reach out VA Dept of Education or the FCPS AAP Administration's website and contact them directly. Don't think parents will solve your confusion here

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sadly, the only one's really being hurt in all of this are the truly gifted kids. They are still not getting the special education that would meet them at their appropriate level nor do they have a classroom environment that is appropriate to meet their needs.

Seriously, what happens to needy gifted kids when AAP ends after middle school? Please don't say AP or IB, because that can't possibly be enough for the students you describe. After all, anyone can enroll in those classes.

And what is really interesting is that sometimes the non-AAP kids do better in the AP and IB classes. "Giftedness" isn't necessarily about achieving, so even if there were special "gifted" classes for high schoolers, it wouldn't necessarily be an improvement. Plus, even gifted students have presumably learned how to handle school without special accommodation by 14 and up.

Without a doubt!

I wouldn't doubt it. I have/have had three kids in the AA program and none of them are super high achievers. They are often scattered, disorganized and reluctant to study for a test. They are naturally bright, but don't necessarily care a whole lot about achievement. They have both AA and non-AA peers who are the stereotypical overachiever types who go above and beyond at every opportunity and beat themselves up for an A-. I think sometimes people think that all AAP kids are like that, when it's often the opposite.

+1

There are many students like this -- underachievement happens frequently.

http://www.giftedstudy.org/newsletter/pdf/underachievement_handbook.pdf

Guess those gifted kids who are underachievers may pick up on some techniques from those in AAP who some of you are looking down on as intellectually inferior to your geniuses. Since there is often group work, [b]the high achievers can help pull your kids along with time management, goal orientation, focus, etc.

I am guessing you do not have a kid with executive function issues.

No, but I'm being tongue in cheek when I say that, addressing the mother who keeps touting that only those who are highly gifted should be in the program.

Thank you -- I obviously missed that part. Not enough coffee this morning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really confused as to why people who have children who score under 135 on a NNAT, CogAT, WISC or any other allowed test, think their child needs AAP and would somehow be disadvantaged in a general education classroom in a place like FCPS when the average score in a general education class is probably 119 - 134 anyway. Why does your child need AAP?

Why don't you reach out VA Dept of Education or the FCPS AAP Administration's website and contact them directly. Don't think parents will solve your confusion here

I believe OP wants parents of children who clearly qualify for and would benefit from AAP to politely decline the opportunity so as to ensure more learning is available to the intellectually malnourished truly gifted kids. I assume OP has similar disdain for many parents who quality for FARMS but whose children are not truly hungry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really confused as to why people who have children who score under 135 on a NNAT, CogAT, WISC or any other allowed test, think their child needs AAP and would somehow be disadvantaged in a general education classroom in a place like FCPS when the average score in a general education class is probably 119 - 134 anyway. Why does your child need AAP?

Why don't you reach out VA Dept of Education or the FCPS AAP Administration's website and contact them directly. Don't think parents will solve your confusion here

I believe OP wants parents of children who clearly qualify for and would benefit from AAP to politely decline the opportunity so as to ensure more learning is available to the intellectually malnourished truly gifted kids. I assume OP has similar disdain for many parents who quality for FARMS but whose children are not truly hungry.

Nicely played..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sadly, the only one's really being hurt in all of this are the truly gifted kids. They are still not getting the special education that would meet them at their appropriate level nor do they have a classroom environment that is appropriate to meet their needs.

Seriously, what happens to needy gifted kids when AAP ends after middle school? Please don't say AP or IB, because that can't possibly be enough for the students you describe. After all, anyone can enroll in those classes.

And what is really interesting is that sometimes the non-AAP kids do better in the AP and IB classes. "Giftedness" isn't necessarily about achieving, so even if there were special "gifted" classes for high schoolers, it wouldn't necessarily be an improvement. Plus, even gifted students have presumably learned how to handle school without special accommodation by 14 and up.

Without a doubt!

I wouldn't doubt it. I have/have had three kids in the AA program and none of them are super high achievers. They are often scattered, disorganized and reluctant to study for a test. They are naturally bright, but don't necessarily care a whole lot about achievement. They have both AA and non-AA peers who are the stereotypical overachiever types who go above and beyond at every opportunity and beat themselves up for an A-. I think sometimes people think that all AAP kids are like that, when it's often the opposite.

There are many students like this -- underachievement happens frequently.

http://www.giftedstudy.org/newsletter/pdf/underachievement_handbook.pdf

Guess those gifted kids who are underachievers may pick up on some techniques from those in AAP who some of you are looking down on as intellectually inferior to your geniuses. Since there is often group work, the high achievers can help pull your kids along with time management, goal orientation, focus, etc.

Sadly your logic is flawed. My genius (and that is documented) DC is being held back academically by your high achieving DC. The curriculum is still moving too slow for the top 1% of the aap class, which cause many of these kids to derail because they are bored or frustrated with the rate of academics and check out waiting for your kid to catch up. Meanwhile, your DC is a brown nosing, high achiever that many teachers love to teach because they are "easy" to have as students (behavior, not academic achievement). My DC is bored in math because kids have failed the tests and are being given the opportunity retake them. Clearly, these kids are slowing down the rate at which the material can be taught.

So, the curriculum is slowed so that your little snowflake can have a chance to keep up, which causes my DC to not receive the amount of academic instructions/rigor that is deserved. Then my DC's executive functioning issue get worse because she's bored with the slow curriculum. Finally, the teacher's who should be hired to teach actual gifted children are frustrated by my DC's disorganization and constant reading because my DC is checking out due to being bored.

Failed attempt....try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And my DD's third grade teacher talked how she loved teaching AAP: the kids had the complexity of the thoughts of 6th graders without the hormones. The kids are smart and sweet.

As they are in GenEd too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And my DD's third grade teacher talked how she loved teaching AAP: the kids had the complexity of the thoughts of 6th graders without the hormones. The kids are smart and sweet.

As they are in GenEd too.

Don't be obtuse. You know that pp meant "smart and sweet" as compared to 6th graders. 3rd grade students in gen ed are/shouldn't be at a 6th grade level, but some of the app kids are. The teacher may prefer the more complex thinking of a typical 6th graders as compared to 3rd graders, but since 6th graders are hormonal and crazy, a 3rd gras app student may fill that desire for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also think a lot of parents who don't yet have high school-age kids think that AAP is (as you said) some sort of golden ticket to future success. They actually think that being in AAP will pave the way to high school valedictorian and the Ivies! It's ridiculous and funny in a gross kind of way, to hear the clamoring for AAP, as if a child in Gen Ed won't do equally well in high school and beyond. Either these parents are extremely naive or foolish... or both.

I think AAP exists for those students who need it to stay engaged in learning. Their parents understand this and are looking to meet their child's current needs. It's the parents of children in general education classrooms who are worried about whether their kids can be academically competitive in high school. They need to calm down. Of course any bright child can do well in high school. Qualifying for AAP indicates that a child is academically gifted - it's not a guarantee of success in the future. Many other things factor into this - work habits, energy levels, executive function skills, social skills.

Regarding the bolded, yes, I'm well aware. I have two very bright kids who were not in AAP in elem. and middle school, yet excelled in their Honors and AP classes throughout high school and went on to great colleges. They're certainly not alone. The "AAP" designation serves as nothing more than an arbitrary division of kids where there need not be one. The vast majority of AAP and Gen Ed kids are too similar to make these distinctions, which is why many parents have had it with the current system. If there must be a "special," separate gifted class, it should only be for kids who cannot learn in a Gen Ed class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also think a lot of parents who don't yet have high school-age kids think that AAP is (as you said) some sort of golden ticket to future success. They actually think that being in AAP will pave the way to high school valedictorian and the Ivies! It's ridiculous and funny in a gross kind of way, to hear the clamoring for AAP, as if a child in Gen Ed won't do equally well in high school and beyond. Either these parents are extremely naive or foolish... or both.

I think AAP exists for those students who need it to stay engaged in learning. Their parents understand this and are looking to meet their child's current needs. It's the parents of children in general education classrooms who are worried about whether their kids can be academically competitive in high school. They need to calm down. Of course any bright child can do well in high school. Qualifying for AAP indicates that a child is academically gifted - it's not a guarantee of success in the future. Many other things factor into this - work habits, energy levels, executive function skills, social skills.

Regarding the bolded, yes, I'm well aware. I have two very bright kids who were not in AAP in elem. and middle school, yet excelled in their Honors and AP classes throughout high school and went on to great colleges. They're certainly not alone. The "AAP" designation serves as nothing more than an arbitrary division of kids where there need not be one. The vast majority of AAP and Gen Ed kids are too similar to make these distinctions, which is why many parents have had it with the current system. If there must be a "special," separate gifted class, it should only be for kids who cannot learn in a Gen Ed class.

Completely agree!! I have one in AAP that would be in that "special, separate gifted class" and app is better that gen ed but still not quite right for her. Other child is in pool for aap, but I know he'd do just fine in gen ed and doesn't really need a different environment. That doesn't mean gen ed couldn't do a better job at differentiation, but it is suitable for most students and most students (including my 2nd) should be there and not aap. And an actual gifted program needs to be brought back for students like my first.

[Anonymous]

Sadly your logic is flawed. My genius (and that is documented) DC is being held back academically by your high achieving DC. The curriculum is still moving too slow for the top 1% of the aap class, which cause many of these kids to derail because they are bored or frustrated with the rate of academics and check out waiting for your kid to catch up. Meanwhile, your DC is a brown nosing, high achiever that many teachers love to teach because they are "easy" to have as students (behavior, not academic achievement). My DC is bored in math because kids have failed the tests and are being given the opportunity retake them. Clearly, these kids are slowing down the rate at which the material can be taught.

So, the curriculum is slowed so that your little snowflake can have a chance to keep up, which causes my DC to not receive the amount of academic instructions/rigor that is deserved. Then my DC's executive functioning issue get worse because she's bored with the slow curriculum. Finally, the teacher's who should be hired to teach actual gifted children are frustrated by my DC's disorganization and constant reading because my DC is checking out due to being bored.

Failed attempt....try again.

Way to kick smug up a notch. I think I can actually smell your BS through the computer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Sadly your logic is flawed. My genius (and that is documented) DC is being held back academically by your high achieving DC. The curriculum is still moving too slow for the top 1% of the aap class, which cause many of these kids to derail because they are bored or frustrated with the rate of academics and check out waiting for your kid to catch up. Meanwhile, your DC is a brown nosing, high achiever that many teachers love to teach because they are "easy" to have as students (behavior, not academic achievement). My DC is bored in math because kids have failed the tests and are being given the opportunity retake them. Clearly, these kids are slowing down the rate at which the material can be taught.

So, the curriculum is slowed so that your little snowflake can have a chance to keep up, which causes my DC to not receive the amount of academic instructions/rigor that is deserved. Then my DC's executive functioning issue get worse because she's bored with the slow curriculum. Finally, the teacher's who should be hired to teach actual gifted children are frustrated by my DC's disorganization and constant reading because my DC is checking out due to being bored.

Failed attempt....try again.

Way to kick smug up a notch. I think I can actually smell your BS through the computer.

I'm not being smug. It's the reality for my kid. What's BS about anything I said. My kid is like the one pp.'s described. Extremely high IQ, intrinsic learner, motivated by her own desires to learn not to please a teach or earn a gold star. Doesn't follow instructions that she doesn't see the value in, disorganized, obsessive reader. If you have a teacher that doesn't allow for the quirks in some kids like her AND slows the curriculum for kids that need to review material multiple times than you end up with a more a traditional classroom which puts my kid back to square one in terms of a more appropriate learning environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sadly your logic is flawed. My genius (and that is documented) DC is being held back academically by your high achieving DC. The curriculum is still moving too slow for the top 1% of the aap class, which cause many of these kids to derail because they are bored or frustrated with the rate of academics and check out waiting for your kid to catch up. Meanwhile, your DC is a brown nosing, high achiever that many teachers love to teach because they are "easy" to have as students (behavior, not academic achievement). My DC is bored in math because kids have failed the tests and are being given the opportunity retake them. Clearly, these kids are slowing down the rate at which the material can be taught.

So, the curriculum is slowed so that your little snowflake can have a chance to keep up, which causes my DC to not receive the amount of academic instructions/rigor that is deserved. Then my DC's executive functioning issue get worse because she's bored with the slow curriculum. Finally, the teacher's who should be hired to teach actual gifted children are frustrated by my DC's disorganization and constant reading because my DC is checking out due to being bored.

Failed attempt....try again.

Way to kick smug up a notch. I think I can actually smell your BS through the computer.

I'm not being smug. It's the reality for my kid. What's BS about anything I said. My kid is like the one pp.'s described. Extremely high IQ, intrinsic learner, motivated by her own desires to learn not to please a teach or earn a gold star. Doesn't follow instructions that she doesn't see the value in, disorganized, obsessive reader. If you have a teacher that doesn't allow for the quirks in some kids like her AND slows the curriculum for kids that need to review material multiple times than you end up with a more a traditional classroom which puts my kid back to square one in terms of a more appropriate learning environment.

BS because I don't believe you. Don't feel bad, it really doesn't matter. Smug because you are attacking a poster who didn't even refer to her own child. Who, exactly, is the brown nosing, high achieving yet slow snowflake robbing your child of an education she "deserves"? Just a composite, I guess, of every child but your own? Bleh.