S/o (VA public schools). IB and college preparedness

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, and the data was the subject of a prior FOIA request to FCPS.

Put up or shut up. I don't believe anyone's "interpretation" of data.

That's your problem. Obviously, if you're interested in seeing the 2012-13 AP data, and don't know where to find it, you could ask nicely. If you just want to sputter and look like an idiot, "put up or shut up" does the trick nicely.

Not the PP, but FCAG does a FOIA request and compiles the AP and IB scores by high school:

http://www.fcag.org/documents/AP_scores/ap_2012_2013.xls

On the AP front, it doesn't look like any IB students took AP tests. That's probably not right, so maybe theY say at the nearest school, and their numbers are rolled in. If FCAG doesn't have that data, it seems unlikely anyone else does. If you do have a source for the data, please share. I would tend to think AP scores are equal or higher, because you would have to be a very strong, motivated student to take AP & IB a tests.

You aren't reading this correctly. Look at the compilation at the bottom of the AP spreadsheet and you will see that students at IB schools did take some AP exams. The largest number was from Robinson and their AP scores were not good. As previously noted, you wouldn't necessarily expect them to do well on AP exams. They attend schools with few or no AP classes.

So, again, most but not all AP exams are taken by students at AP schools. Students at IB schools take a few AP exams and have a modestly negative effect on the average AP test scores in the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, and the data was the subject of a prior FOIA request to FCPS.

Not FOIA request. FOIA only applies to Federal matters. This is a local matter and not FOIA-able.

Think, or at least do a little research, before you post next time. There are state FOIA laws, too.

http://www.fcps.edu/usingsite/foia.shtml

It's called VFOIA, not FOIA.

Now you're just being a complete idiot. Look at the web link and the web site and it's clear the state law is also referred to as FOIA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, and the data was the subject of a prior FOIA request to FCPS.

Put up or shut up. I don't believe anyone's "interpretation" of data.

That's your problem. Obviously, if you're interested in seeing the 2012-13 AP data, and don't know where to find it, you could ask nicely. If you just want to sputter and look like an idiot, "put up or shut up" does the trick nicely.

Not the PP, but FCAG does a FOIA request and compiles the AP and IB scores by high school:

http://www.fcag.org/documents/AP_scores/ap_2012_2013.xls

On the AP front, it doesn't look like any IB students took AP tests. That's probably not right, so maybe theY say at the nearest school, and their numbers are rolled in. If FCAG doesn't have that data, it seems unlikely anyone else does. If you do have a source for the data, please share. I would tend to think AP scores are equal or higher, because you would have to be a very strong, motivated student to take AP & IB a tests.

You aren't reading this correctly. Look at the compilation at the bottom of the AP spreadsheet and you will see that students at IB schools did take some AP exams. The largest number was from Robinson and their AP scores were not good. As previously noted, you wouldn't necessarily expect them to do well on AP exams. They attend schools with few or no AP classes.

So, again, most but not all AP exams are taken by students at AP schools. Students at IB schools take a few AP exams and have a modestly negative effect on the average AP test scores in the county.

See the PP.

Also 2 IB schools took no AP tests, and another 4 took a combined total of 90-100. South Lakes took 203 and did really well. Robinson has and AP and an IB curriculum, so it doesn't in either column. Given South Lakes (and Marshall's) performance, it looks like IB kids outperformed AP kids on AP tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, and the data was the subject of a prior FOIA request to FCPS.

Put up or shut up. I don't believe anyone's "interpretation" of data.

That's your problem. Obviously, if you're interested in seeing the 2012-13 AP data, and don't know where to find it, you could ask nicely. If you just want to sputter and look like an idiot, "put up or shut up" does the trick nicely.

Not the PP, but FCAG does a FOIA request and compiles the AP and IB scores by high school:

http://www.fcag.org/documents/AP_scores/ap_2012_2013.xls

On the AP front, it doesn't look like any IB students took AP tests. That's probably not right, so maybe theY say at the nearest school, and their numbers are rolled in. If FCAG doesn't have that data, it seems unlikely anyone else does. If you do have a source for the data, please share. I would tend to think AP scores are equal or higher, because you would have to be a very strong, motivated student to take AP & IB a tests.

You aren't reading this correctly. Look at the compilation at the bottom of the AP spreadsheet and you will see that students at IB schools did take some AP exams. The largest number was from Robinson and their AP scores were not good. As previously noted, you wouldn't necessarily expect them to do well on AP exams. They attend schools with few or no AP classes.

So, again, most but not all AP exams are taken by students at AP schools. Students at IB schools take a few AP exams and have a modestly negative effect on the average AP test scores in the county.

See the PP.

Also 2 IB schools took no AP tests, and another 4 took a combined total of 90-100. South Lakes took 203 and did really well. Robinson has and AP and an IB curriculum, so it doesn't in either column. Given South Lakes (and Marshall's) performance, it looks like IB kids outperformed AP kids on AP tests.

BS. Marshall students only took 11 AP tests in total so their scores are a drop in the bucket. South Lakes scores were barely above the average. Robinson is an IB school that offers only a few AP courses, and its scores were poor, as were those of the other five IB schools (you can see from the chart that the scores were presented in descending order, although FCPS redacted information for schools with few test takers). There is no question but that overall the students from IB schools were a drag on the AP averages.

[Anonymous]

Interesting. Here's what the Robinson numbers say to me: in a school where kids can choose betweenAP and IB, the best and brightest choose IB (see: number of tests taken and relative score ranking).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, and the data was the subject of a prior FOIA request to FCPS.

Put up or shut up. I don't believe anyone's "interpretation" of data.

That's your problem. Obviously, if you're interested in seeing the 2012-13 AP data, and don't know where to find it, you could ask nicely. If you just want to sputter and look like an idiot, "put up or shut up" does the trick nicely.

Not the PP, but FCAG does a FOIA request and compiles the AP and IB scores by high school:

http://www.fcag.org/documents/AP_scores/ap_2012_2013.xls

On the AP front, it doesn't look like any IB students took AP tests. That's probably not right, so maybe theY say at the nearest school, and their numbers are rolled in. If FCAG doesn't have that data, it seems unlikely anyone else does. If you do have a source for the data, please share. I would tend to think AP scores are equal or higher, because you would have to be a very strong, motivated student to take AP & IB a tests.

You aren't reading this correctly. Look at the compilation at the bottom of the AP spreadsheet and you will see that students at IB schools did take some AP exams. The largest number was from Robinson and their AP scores were not good. As previously noted, you wouldn't necessarily expect them to do well on AP exams. They attend schools with few or no AP classes.

So, again, most but not all AP exams are taken by students at AP schools. Students at IB schools take a few AP exams and have a modestly negative effect on the average AP test scores in the county.

See the PP.

Also 2 IB schools took no AP tests, and another 4 took a combined total of 90-100. South Lakes took 203 and did really well. Robinson has and AP and an IB curriculum, so it doesn't in either column. Given South Lakes (and Marshall's) performance, it looks like IB kids outperformed AP kids on AP tests.

BS. Marshall students only took 11 AP tests in total so their scores are a drop in the bucket. South Lakes scores were barely above the average. Robinson is an IB school that offers only a few AP courses, and its scores were poor, as were those of the other five IB schools (you can see from the chart that the scores were presented in descending order, although FCPS redacted information for schools with few test takers). There is no question but that overall the students from IB schools were a drag on the AP averages.

South Lakes was one of only 2 IB schools with more than 40 tests. At 208 tests, it had more than twice as many AP tests as all of the other IB schools combined. Most of the others had less than 20. Robinson doesn't have a dog in this fight. Since it does offer AP classes, a large number of their AP testers should have been students who took those class. So no, given that a school in the top 1/3 of AP scores was an IB school, and 2/3 of students came from this school, I don't see the huge drain on FCPS AP scores. Which is what happEns when you only make assertions with nothing to back them up and hope no one calls you one it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. Here's what the Robinson numbers say to me: in a school where kids can choose betweenAP and IB, the best and brightest choose IB (see: number of tests taken and relative score ranking).

The deck is stacked at Robinson. It has the full IB diploma program, and only six AP courses, unlike the AP-only schools in FCPS that typically have at least 25 AP courses. So, yes, there are incentives currently in place to choose IB at Robinson. If Robinson had a full menu of AP courses, things would be different. Overall, parents in FCPS strongly prefer AP. When part of Fairfax Station got moved from Woodson to Robinson a few years ago, parents were not happy about their kids getting moved to an IB school.

Again, as noted, the AP test takers at schools in FCPS that are primarily or entirely IB pull the average AP scores in the county down slightly, but not a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, and the data was the subject of a prior FOIA request to FCPS.

Put up or shut up. I don't believe anyone's "interpretation" of data.

That's your problem. Obviously, if you're interested in seeing the 2012-13 AP data, and don't know where to find it, you could ask nicely. If you just want to sputter and look like an idiot, "put up or shut up" does the trick nicely.

Not the PP, but FCAG does a FOIA request and compiles the AP and IB scores by high school:

http://www.fcag.org/documents/AP_scores/ap_2012_2013.xls

On the AP front, it doesn't look like any IB students took AP tests. That's probably not right, so maybe theY say at the nearest school, and their numbers are rolled in. If FCAG doesn't have that data, it seems unlikely anyone else does. If you do have a source for the data, please share. I would tend to think AP scores are equal or higher, because you would have to be a very strong, motivated student to take AP & IB a tests.

You aren't reading this correctly. Look at the compilation at the bottom of the AP spreadsheet and you will see that students at IB schools did take some AP exams. The largest number was from Robinson and their AP scores were not good. As previously noted, you wouldn't necessarily expect them to do well on AP exams. They attend schools with few or no AP classes.

So, again, most but not all AP exams are taken by students at AP schools. Students at IB schools take a few AP exams and have a modestly negative effect on the average AP test scores in the county.

See the PP.

Also 2 IB schools took no AP tests, and another 4 took a combined total of 90-100. South Lakes took 203 and did really well. Robinson has and AP and an IB curriculum, so it doesn't in either column. Given South Lakes (and Marshall's) performance, it looks like IB kids outperformed AP kids on AP tests.

BS. Marshall students only took 11 AP tests in total so their scores are a drop in the bucket. South Lakes scores were barely above the average. Robinson is an IB school that offers only a few AP courses, and its scores were poor, as were those of the other five IB schools (you can see from the chart that the scores were presented in descending order, although FCPS redacted information for schools with few test takers). There is no question but that overall the students from IB schools were a drag on the AP averages.

South Lakes was one of only 2 IB schools with more than 40 tests. At 208 tests, it had more than twice as many AP tests as all of the other IB schools combined. Most of the others had less than 20. Robinson doesn't have a dog in this fight. Since it does offer AP classes, a large number of their AP testers should have been students who took those class. So no, given that a school in the top 1/3 of AP scores was an IB school, and 2/3 of students came from this school, I don't see the huge drain on FCPS AP scores. Which is what happEns when you only make assertions with nothing to back them up and hope no one calls you one it.

Robinson is an IB school with a few AP classes. Students there took far more AP tests than South Lakes students and their scores on average were not great. Some of the other IB schools probably offer a small number of AP courses, too, but they are still primarily IB schools. You can't take Robinson out of the equation simply because you don't like their test scores.

Note that no one ever suggested here that students from Robinson and the other IB schools are a big drag on the AP scores. They had a slightly negative effect, as the scores for Robinson and five other IB schoos were below the county average, but on the other hand there weren't that many students from those schools taking AP tests compared to students from the AP schools.

[Anonymous]

Since it's always nice to have the facts: not including Robinson (there is no way to know who took their AP tests from AP vs IB classes), 283 of more than 25,000 AP tests (or about 1.1%) were taken by IB students. The average score for IB students was 3.15, vs 3.26 for all of FCPS. So, at most, IB students knocked the average from 3.27 to 3.26-- or maybe they didn't pull the average down at all, depending on the rounding. At any rate, of all the arguments you want to make about IB, saying that IB kids are pulling down FCPS average AP scores is a terrible one-- especially since Annandale, Edison, Lee, Stuart, etc are the weakest schools in the county, and would almost certainly pull down AP scores on their own, even if they were AP schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB kids allowed to take AP exams in FCPS? If so, your AP numbers probably include bunch of IB kids too.

IB students can take AP exams,but students from IB schools in FCPS taking AP exams are a mere drop in the bucket. Most are from Robinson, a big school that offers some AP courses, and the average AP test scores for Robinson students were poor across the board and below the county average in 2012-13, according to FCPS data. The best preparation in FCPS for AP exams is taking AP classes at AP-only schools.

Then FCPS's AP numbers are inflated - any IB kid who takes AP will be counted as "AP" student and the exams counted with AP exams taken. But, since AP kids can't take IB exams, it will always inflate the AP data.

Yes, there are more students taking AP exams and more AP exams administered because students at IB schools can take AP exams. Duh.

It is odd to use the term "inflate" when those students actually are a drag on the average AP exam results for FCPS students. Maybe if IB had more to offer the students at IB schools would only take IB exams, or would be better prepared for the AP exams they do take.

This person: seems to believe IB students are a "drag" on FCPS AP scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Since it's always nice to have the facts: not including Robinson (there is no way to know who took their AP tests from AP vs IB classes), 283 of more than 25,000 AP tests (or about 1.1%) were taken by IB students. The average score for IB students was 3.15, vs 3.26 for all of FCPS. So, at most, IB students knocked the average from 3.27 to 3.26-- or maybe they didn't pull the average down at all, depending on the rounding. At any rate, of all the arguments you want to make about IB, saying that IB kids are pulling down FCPS average AP scores is a terrible one-- especially since Annandale, Edison, Lee, Stuart, etc are the weakest schools in the county, and would almost certainly pull down AP scores on their own, even if they were AP schools.

.

Excluding Robinson is arbitrary, as it is primarily an IB school just like the seven other schools in FCPS with IB diploma programs.

In any event, I think you lost the track of the thread. It was an IB supporter who claimed AP "numbers" were "inflated" by students from IB schools. That was misleading, because students from Robinson and the other IB schools bring down the average AP scores in the county. There is nothing to suggest that exposure to IB helps students perform better on AP exams, which is something people have suggested here, but then failed to substantiate. What the data shows instead is that, if you want to do well on AP exams, you are best off attending an AP school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since it's always nice to have the facts: not including Robinson (there is no way to know who took their AP tests from AP vs IB classes), 283 of more than 25,000 AP tests (or about 1.1%) were taken by IB students. The average score for IB students was 3.15, vs 3.26 for all of FCPS. So, at most, IB students knocked the average from 3.27 to 3.26-- or maybe they didn't pull the average down at all, depending on the rounding. At any rate, of all the arguments you want to make about IB, saying that IB kids are pulling down FCPS average AP scores is a terrible one-- especially since Annandale, Edison, Lee, Stuart, etc are the weakest schools in the county, and would almost certainly pull down AP scores on their own, even if they were AP schools.

.

Excluding Robinson is arbitrary, as it is primarily an IB school just like the seven other schools in FCPS with IB diploma programs.

In any event, I think you lost the track of the thread. It was an IB supporter who claimed AP "numbers" were "inflated" by students from IB schools. That was misleading, because students from Robinson and the other IB schools bring down the average AP scores in the county. There is nothing to suggest that exposure to IB helps students perform better on AP exams, which is something people have suggested here, but then failed to substantiate. What the data shows instead is that, if you want to do well on AP exams, you are best off attending an AP school.

Two things: Excluding Robinson isn't arbitrary-- it's necessary, because their is no way to look at their biology pass rate, for example, and tell the average AP score for students who took the AP class vs the IB class. Without this info, Robinson's AP data is useless on this point. Second-- I don't think anyone could argue with a straight face that IB is the best possible prep for students taking the AP exam. If you have a student who wants to load up on AP exams, they should be in an AP school and take AP classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since it's always nice to have the facts: not including Robinson (there is no way to know who took their AP tests from AP vs IB classes), 283 of more than 25,000 AP tests (or about 1.1%) were taken by IB students. The average score for IB students was 3.15, vs 3.26 for all of FCPS. So, at most, IB students knocked the average from 3.27 to 3.26-- or maybe they didn't pull the average down at all, depending on the rounding. At any rate, of all the arguments you want to make about IB, saying that IB kids are pulling down FCPS average AP scores is a terrible one-- especially since Annandale, Edison, Lee, Stuart, etc are the weakest schools in the county, and would almost certainly pull down AP scores on their own, even if they were AP schools.

.

Excluding Robinson is arbitrary, as it is primarily an IB school just like the seven other schools in FCPS with IB diploma programs.

In any event, I think you lost the track of the thread. It was an IB supporter who claimed AP "numbers" were "inflated" by students from IB schools. That was misleading, because students from Robinson and the other IB schools bring down the average AP scores in the county. There is nothing to suggest that exposure to IB helps students perform better on AP exams, which is something people have suggested here, but then failed to substantiate. What the data shows instead is that, if you want to do well on AP exams, you are best off attending an AP school.

Two things: Excluding Robinson isn't arbitrary-- it's necessary, because their is no way to look at their biology pass rate, for example, and tell the average AP score for students who took the AP class vs the IB class. Without this info, Robinson's AP data is useless on this point. Second-- I don't think anyone could argue with a straight face that IB is the best possible prep for students taking the AP exam. If you have a student who wants to load up on AP exams, they should be in an AP school and take AP classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since it's always nice to have the facts: not including Robinson (there is no way to know who took their AP tests from AP vs IB classes), 283 of more than 25,000 AP tests (or about 1.1%) were taken by IB students. The average score for IB students was 3.15, vs 3.26 for all of FCPS. So, at most, IB students knocked the average from 3.27 to 3.26-- or maybe they didn't pull the average down at all, depending on the rounding. At any rate, of all the arguments you want to make about IB, saying that IB kids are pulling down FCPS average AP scores is a terrible one-- especially since Annandale, Edison, Lee, Stuart, etc are the weakest schools in the county, and would almost certainly pull down AP scores on their own, even if they were AP schools.

.

Excluding Robinson is arbitrary, as it is primarily an IB school just like the seven other schools in FCPS with IB diploma programs.

In any event, I think you lost the track of the thread. It was an IB supporter who claimed AP "numbers" were "inflated" by students from IB schools. That was misleading, because students from Robinson and the other IB schools bring down the average AP scores in the county. There is nothing to suggest that exposure to IB helps students perform better on AP exams, which is something people have suggested here, but then failed to substantiate. What the data shows instead is that, if you want to do well on AP exams, you are best off attending an AP school.

Two things: Excluding Robinson isn't arbitrary-- it's necessary, because their is no way to look at their biology pass rate, for example, and tell the average AP score for students who took the AP class vs the IB class. Without this info, Robinson's AP data is useless on this point. Second-- I don't think anyone could argue with a straight face that IB is the best possible prep for students taking the AP exam. If you have a student who wants to load up on AP exams, they should be in an AP school and take AP classes.

Excluding Robinson is arbitrary. The only way you have to capture the group of students who may be enrolled in IB courses from that data set is to include students at IB schools, including Robinson. But, yes, attending an AP school and taking AP classes is the best way to prepare for AP exams. There is nothing to suggest that IB students in FCPS "inflate" the performance of county students on AP exams.

This is, of course, a minor issue in the context of the discussion, compared to the fact that only 10% of graduates of the IB schools in FCPS get an IB diploma, even though we're paying through the nose for this program and depriving other students of access to more than, at best, a few AP courses.

[Anonymous]

Excluding Robinson is arbitrary. The only way you have to capture the group of students who may be enrolled in IB courses from that data set is to include students at IB schools, including Robinson. But, yes, attending an AP school and taking AP classes is the best way to prepare for AP exams. There is nothing to suggest that IB students in FCPS "inflate" the performance of county students on AP exams.

This is, of course, a minor issue in the context of the discussion, compared to the fact that only 10% of graduates of the IB schools in FCPS get an IB diploma, even though we're paying through the nose for this program and depriving other students of access to more than, at best, a few AP courses.

Another factor that no one has mentioned. A student can take an AP test having taken neither IB nor AP classes. It is impossible to make conclusions on the IB student taking AP tests based on this data.

I think it doubtful that anyone not taking calculus would take an AP exam in calculus. It is allowed, however. I suspect that AP English is taken far more than other AP classes. Might be wrong.