How do people afford kids?

[Anonymous]

I'm against doing anything too drastic, such as selling your house. First, selling itself is expensive, second, buying in a bad area, or far away, could increase your other expenses, such as commute or private school in the future. Your income should be enough to support a child. Even if your mortgage is 1/3 of your take home, there should be money left over at the end of the month. Your task right now should be to find where the discretionary dollars are going and see if you can re-direct them. Get a spreadsheet and track your expenses for a few months. See if you spend too much on utilities, insulate your house if that's the case. Do you spend too much on gas? If so, trade your car in for a more efficient car, car-pool, or use public transport. Groceries, lunches at work and eating out could be a huge money pit - start cooking. Entertainment could cost a fortune unless you specifically seek out free activities. Haircuts, pedicures, clothes, trips, insurance you don't need (such as full coverage on an old car), dry cleaning - add it all together, and I'd be surprised if you couldn't come up with $1500/month or so.

[Anonymous]

They move to the country and raise them properly. There they learn to help their neighbors, play outside, gain wholesome morals, appreciate the value of money, and discover what real work is.

[Anonymous]

Agree with pp above - take a good hard look at your income and expenses - see where you can cut back (lunches, eating out, etc). Selling your house would likely be a poor decision, especially if it is in a good neighborhood with good schools and a decent commute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that the one financial mistake so many DCUMers make was made long before they thought about buying a house or having kids -- they racked up thousands in student loans.

I am stunned that so many DCUMers calmly report paying $500, $800, $1,100 a month toward student loans. I can't imagine that.

I think my 200k salary makes up for my $400 monthly loan payment.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, others have said it already but consider moving elsewhere. We couldn't afford kids in DC despite making a combined $120k. Even then, we'd be scraping by and it wouldn't be the lifestyle I wanted. We moved to Atlanta and have ZERO regrets. We have a big house here, a yard, I'll be able to stay home...granted it's not nearly as interesting of a place to live but you have to sacrifice somewhere.

But didn't you take a huge paycut to move to Atlanta?

Another poster here. I did NOT take a pay cut to move from NY to DC and it has been great. Many times when you DO take a pay cut it is worth it. Our mortgage is less than our rent was in NY and we save over 1k in taxes a month. On top of that we don't pay to garage our car.

You have to take into account the standard of living, not just cost. Fee in atlanta would rent a studio with no laundry or AC. You just don't live like that. Whereas I have friends making 300 plus in NY who do. There are indeed very stark differences between cities and you can get ahead by moving somewhere else. There are many things to consider.

Yeah, for me personally, I couldn't get over the roadblock of living in a hot fiery hot hot hot fucking place. I'd die.

Same here. I would rather die - which would be cheaper, ultimately, than living (anywhere).

So you're saying you would rather die than live in DC? I'm confused.

Rather than living in hot, sweaty Atlanta, I think, and I totally agree! My husband would live to move to Florida, but the is no effing way that is ever happening. I would much rather move to Minnesota.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:OP, others have said it already but consider moving elsewhere. We couldn't afford kids in DC despite making a combined $120k. Even then, we'd be scraping by and it wouldn't be the lifestyle I wanted. We moved to Atlanta and have ZERO regrets. We have a big house here, a yard, I'll be able to stay home...granted it's not nearly as interesting of a place to live but you have to sacrifice somewhere.

But didn't you take a huge paycut to move to Atlanta?

Another poster here. I did NOT take a pay cut to move from NY to DC and it has been great. Many times when you DO take a pay cut it is worth it. Our mortgage is less than our rent was in NY and we save over 1k in taxes a month. On top of that we don't pay to garage our car.

You have to take into account the standard of living, not just cost. Fee in atlanta would rent a studio with no laundry or AC. You just don't live like that. Whereas I have friends making 300 plus in NY who do. There are indeed very stark differences between cities and you can get ahead by moving somewhere else. There are many things to consider.

Yeah, for me personally, I couldn't get over the roadblock of living in a hot fiery hot hot hot fucking place. I'd die.

Same here. I would rather die - which would be cheaper, ultimately, than living (anywhere).

So you're saying you would rather die than live in DC? I'm confused.

Rather than living in hot, sweaty Atlanta, I think, and I totally agree! My husband would live to move to Florida, but the is no effing way that is ever happening. I would much rather move to Minnesota.

The weather in atlanta is fairly similar to that of DC. Very much so. DC is a swamp and is just as humid.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP again, my mortgage is actually more like 30% take home after taxes, maxing retirement, healthcare, and our car payment (I forgot it automatically goes into a separate credit union account). We barely take any deductions, so we'll be getting around 12k back on taxes this year, so this also lowers our take home pay. We have a 3 bedroom house, outside the beltway in NoVa, that is about 30-40 min. to both our jobs. We stretched a bit to be in a good school district because that was really important to us.

I wasn't trying to stir a debate about my housing. I truly just wanted helpful advice/perspective from other families in the area who make it work with a middle class income.

I love the ideas about toys off Craigslist, signing up for a babysitting sharing service, bulking up on diapers when they are on sale, etc. Also, a lot of PPs have pointed out that weekend activities change once you have kids. I imagine we'll be spending more time at home, ordering pizza, going to the park, etc. as opposed to going to concerts and trying new restaurants. In-home daycare might be worth researching for us or perhaps daycare in the burbs will be cheaper than what my friends closer-in pay.

I'm glad to know there are others out there who make things work in order to have kids!

We have a similar HHI and mortgage (in the suburbs). We're really happy with our 2 yo DS's 1300/mo daycare center. We have one car payment, minimal student loans, and moderate commuting costs. We max out retirement, budget every dollar, and some months we pull from savings for unexpected expenses; our annual bonuses go back to savings to balance that out. Something I want to point about about all the money-saving tips and tricks: you need TIME to use them which - more so than even money - is going to be a precious resource once you have a baby. When you factor in daycare drop-off/pick-up into your commuting time, plus the demands of your career on top of caring for an infant in the evenings, you will need weekends to catch up on household stuff you don't have time for during the week. DCUMs advice on this point is usually "OUTSOURCE", but what if you can't afford that? I don't mean to be doom and gloom, but so often on these boards the question is about finances and the answer comes in the form of a barrage of cost-cutting tips. What you need to examine and prepare for is the affect of having a child on your time to accomplish things in a household where both parents work full-time. Who will be responsible for scouring Craigslist for a bouncer and cutting coupons? Who will organize and schedule doctors appointments, required forms, clothing and supplies for daycare? Who will make sure work clothes get to the dry cleaner and get picked up? You get the idea. We worked up a decent budget and comparison shopped before our baby was born, and we felt financially prepared even though our salaries are on the low average side for the area. Our rude awakening came when we were both exhausted, both had work demands, and both felt the other needed to do more to keep our household up and running. We've worked it out and I can truly say even though our finances are tight, we're happy. But I do wish someone had urged me to do more planning from a time and logistics perspective rather than a financial one.

This may be the best advice I've ever read on DCUM. This is it right here.

How does it relate to OP's question?

If she's afraid she can't even handle the money sacrifices, then she needs to have her eyes wide open about the other parenting sacrifices that are even harder to adjust to.

[Anonymous]

OP is spending more than s/he needs to on something.

We have a HHI that is slightly higher than OP's ($200k), and while we spend about 20% of take home on our mortgage, we put another 25% towards student loans (thanks to professional school, though we're also making substantial extra payments to get rid of them early). That only leaves about 50% of our income, but we manage to cover all of our expenses, contribute generously to 401ks (though we don't max them; fortunately I have a DB pension plan and we've been saving long enough that we're ahead of the game), and still save one paycheck every month. We aren't spendthrifts - our laptops and phones are paid by work, we have one economy car that's paid off and costs $30 to fuel each month, and we spend $0 commuting because we prioritized buying a place close to transit - but we don't deprive ourselves either (we take annual international vacations plus a few domestic trips on long weekends to visit friends/family, and do nice meals out at least once a month with a splurge 1-2x a year).

For us, once the loans are paid off there will be enough money for childcare and a 529 (and HHI should also rise a bit, though that would mean more discretionary $ and we're not taking it for granted). We won't be buying luxury cars and shopping at Neiman Marcus, but we'll be doing just fine.

Budgeting is key - not just month to month, but long term. We plan splurges in advance and space them out so that we do not feel like we're always depriving ourselves. That makes it easy to say "no" to things that we don't really need.

Also, leverage grandparents if you can. We will definitely lobby our parents to come live with us for a bit when we spawn!

[Anonymous]

I agree that selling the house is silly. Please don't listen to PPs who bought in 1996 and are sitting smugly with $1400 mortgages. It is costly to sell a home, in terms of transaction costs, and you probably have the lowest mortgage rate we will see in a generation.

For me, the difference is purely in savings. We don't save anymore beyond retirement (17% of total income). We had a substantial savings before our kid. But now, we budget down to the dollar. We don't have $2K of "leftover" money anymore. And that's fine. Kids never stop being costly, but despite what people on here will try to tell you, the financial intensity is truly concentrated before they are school age. You will get raises over time and your kids will go to school.

Besides, if you can pay for daycare out of current income, you can eventually pay for college out of current income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hah... I was literally just texting the wife about this cause I paid our credit card bill for this month.

Thanks for scheduling a payment on Oct 27, 2014, with Online Banking. Here are your payment details:

Payment amount:
$11356.09

Payment date:
Oct 31, 2014

If you see an error with this scheduled payment, just sign in to Online Banking—we’re here to help you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

....

WHERE DOES IT ALL GO !?!

Did you have special expenses this month? Or is this the norm? How many kids do you have? Just asking because our CC bill is about 1000 dollars a month with one child.

Its not typical, I was just laughing/commiserating with the thread. We usually spend about $4,000 a month on our CC's with two kids, but we put most everything on them religiously: groceries, dinner out, auto payments for our internet, cell phone, tv, food at the office, gas for the cars, diapers, etc. I can't fathom how we'd do it for $1,000 a month - we spend that on groceries alone a month.

none of our home utilities goes on the CC but it's still about $2,000-$2300 for us. Gas is about $200 total, lunches out when I don't bring from home, occasional lotions type of maintenance goods, toddler stuff, oh $200 is in parking and metro fees, once a week eating out, twice a year $50-$75 presents for inlaws/nephew/niece/three brothers for bday and xmas, three times a year massage. $2k is not small but that amount just seems to just disappear.

[Anonymous]

My friends husband made 36k starting out. She stayed home with 2 kids. They owned a modular home and lived very comfortably. If they can make it on 36 I'm guessing you could on 180

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My friends husband made 36k starting out. She stayed home with 2 kids. They owned a modular home and lived very comfortably. If they can make it on 36 I'm guessing you could on 180

i hate these straw man arguments.

i assume these ppl did not live in a costly metro area.
i assume they didnt have student loans.
i assume they didnt have commuting costs.
and so forth and so on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You purchased too much house / took out too much mortgage. You may think that 1/3 is well within normal living standards - but who ever told you that was wrong.

No you didn't. You will be fine. Just get rid of as much debt as you can and start saving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friends husband made 36k starting out. She stayed home with 2 kids. They owned a modular home and lived very comfortably. If they can make it on 36 I'm guessing you could on 180

i hate these straw man arguments.

i assume these ppl did not live in a costly metro area.
i assume they didnt have student loans.
i assume they didnt have commuting costs.
and so forth and so on.

Yes student loans, yes a car payment and he had to drive to work. Their key to success was they bought a modular home for 5k and paid 100 per month for their mortgage.

[Anonymous]

I don't know, OP. I think you're doing something wrong -- probably paying too much for mortgage? We have a $195K HHI and two kids (3 and 1). We had our first at 30 (when we were only making $165K), bought our small house in N Arlington that same year with the $140K downpayment we'd saved up over the 6 years we'd been married at that point (saved despite us taking turns at grad school and paying each others' way through so no loans). We also maxed out retirement every year except the year we bought our house. Our care is a great in-home daycare a couple blocks from our house. Cars were bought with cash so no payment.

Sounds like your mortgage is either too high (ours is $2200/month and we bought 3 years ago!) or you need to wait several years and save more money for child-related expenses or something. Not everyone can afford kids right away as soon as they get married (which is why there are so many moms in their upper 30s around here). You don't have kids now, so now is when you should be saving a HUGE chunk of cash. Unlike what some PP posted, they are hella expensive -- childcare, clothing, toys, etc, even if used/craigslisted -- not to mention all the convenience stuff you'll probably spring for as a PP brought up; logistics to save time or sanity like pizzas and a cleaning service (very hard to clean your house with an infant!) and extra carseats so you have one for each car... Cutting cable and wedding travel isn't going to make up a gap if the gap is too substantial.

In addition to having a similar HHI to you, we have no family money (sounds like you're ahead there since your parents need a planner). So yeah, you can make it work. But I don't know if that will be now or after you save for a bit.