MCPS and Starr will probably need to change boundaries

[Anonymous]

All this talk about lower SES kids who are struggling, but what about higher SES kids who struggle or are bad influences? They do exist and are even in the W schools! Horror! People are up in arms about the prospect of potential boundary changes, but the kinds of kids you're worried about being in school with your kids are ALREADY IN THEIR SCHOOL and they are not the low income kids you're thinking about. Do you think there are no drugs, crimes or fights in W schools? I went to a W school and was exposed to all of that, but chose to stay away from that path. It was all there if I had chosen to, though.

For the people who are worried about their kids being in school with kids "from the wrong side of the tracks"--how are you preparing your children to be successful in the real world? Are you going to try to control who they work with when they get jobs? Who their friends will be? What partner they'll end up with?

I teach in a high ESOL/minority population school and there are a lot of extremely bright students who are hard working and are trying their hardest to be successful in school and for their future. They are not the "riffraff" that some people here are making them out to be. Your kids were lucky to be born into a higher SES family. Some kids are not so lucky. Don't they deserve the same chances as your kids?

[Anonymous]

I have friends with a black son who can barely read, struggles with literally everything at school, and the school says he's fine (most likely because he is very quiet and well behaved). His parents knew something was up and demanded that the school test him. Principal refused, so they paid for the testing themselves. He is now officially diagnosed with a handful of issues. The school still fought it and it went up through the county. By the end of the year, he was finally beginning to receive some services...but not all. Several teachers and administrators told the parents (off the record) to keep fighting and that the county throws up these hurdles particularly hard when a minority boy is involved. Having said that, I have another friend with a white boy who essentially had the same scenario. Pretending kids don't have disabilities is wrong. And since it's a bit of an epidemic in MCPS, it's not surprising that so many kids are doing poorly on tests.

[Anonymous]

To 16:34 - you sound unhinged. People understand that there are bright kids at bad schools. And people understand these kids aren't riff raff and deserve better. Here's the issue people are discussing: the fact that bussing the best and brightest out of the bad school and into the good school won't solve the problem...because the smart kids aren't the problem. Rather, the poorly performing students are the issue. And leaving them behind or mixing them in with other better performing students won't address the underlying cause of their poor performance. Understand? If not, then perhaps you (as an MCPS teacher) are part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[

How do YOU propose solving the problem? Busing all the Potomac kids to Darnestown? That seems realistic.

Darnestown? When you think of high-poverty schools, you think of Darnestown?

OMG. It is far physically, hence the point. I'm done here. It's not happening anyway. MCPS just did a press release. So us rich folk who don't want the poor kids educated are safe.

Darnestown isn't very far physically from Potomac, actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I bought in the Churchill district so I would not have see those people. I'll be damned if that changes.

Holy fucking Christ, you are such a shitty person. I can't imagine thinking this about anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All this talk about lower SES kids who are struggling, but what about higher SES kids who struggle or are bad influences? They do exist and are even in the W schools! Horror! People are up in arms about the prospect of potential boundary changes, but the kinds of kids you're worried about being in school with your kids are ALREADY IN THEIR SCHOOL and they are not the low income kids you're thinking about. Do you think there are no drugs, crimes or fights in W schools? I went to a W school and was exposed to all of that, but chose to stay away from that path. It was all there if I had chosen to, though.

For the people who are worried about their kids being in school with kids "from the wrong side of the tracks"--how are you preparing your children to be successful in the real world? Are you going to try to control who they work with when they get jobs? Who their friends will be? What partner they'll end up with?

I teach in a high ESOL/minority population school and there are a lot of extremely bright students who are hard working and are trying their hardest to be successful in school and for their future. They are not the "riffraff" that some people here are making them out to be. Your kids were lucky to be born into a higher SES family. Some kids are not so lucky. Don't they deserve the same chances as your kids?

Please point out one post where a parent expresses worry over kids from "the wrong side of the tracks." I'm the earlier poster who was saying I bought in a good school district and would be upset if my kids were moved out of it. I actually said the complete opposite of what you express - I said I'd be more than happy to welcome kids who haven't had the same opportunities that mine have had. Please point out ONE quote in this thread that makes your point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I bought in the Churchill district so I would not have see those people. I'll be damned if that changes.

Holy fucking Christ, you are such a shitty person. I can't imagine thinking this about anyone.

That poster was being sarcastic (I assume).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"Redistributing kids" won't solve the problem. Kids self-segregate - even in some very diverse schools. In the "W schools," they'll self-segregate by money. Do you honestly think some kid living in low-income housing will be welcomed by the kid in the mansion? doubtful

And sprinkling in a few kids coming from disadvantaged homes will make them stand out, as most will be black and Hispanic. Is that fair?

If I had the answer, I'd be a millionaire. But I know that this solution will not work either.

This solution actually does work.

I don't know if a kid in a mansion will welcome a kid living in low-income housing, and I don't know if it's fair to make disadvantaged kids to stand out.

What I do know is that the educational outcomes for poor kids are a lot better in low-poverty schools than in high-poverty schools.

which fails to take into account grade inflation - as the pressure is on to pass minority students

Talk to any of the Hispanic and black males who come out of a W school and enter alternative settings. Ask them how comfortable they felt in a W school. It's not just about grades, which mean nothing in this day and age. It's about well-being.

Finally, let's see how accepting the neighborhoods in Bethesda, Chevy Chase and Potomac will be if the county decides to change boundaries. You will have a fight on your hands as property values immediately plummet - especially if low-incoming housing is thrown into the mix.

So even IF the kids are welcoming, their parents won't be.

So what? We all bought houses in MoCo, districted to MCPS. No one is entitled to a specific school with specific demographics, no matter how much they paid for their house. No one.

Are you for real? Do you genuinely not understand that people pay more for houses in certain school districts? It's not about entitlement, it's about getting what you pay (and scrimp and save and sacrifice other things) for.

That is not how it works. People can pay whatever they want for whatever quality they perceive, but that payment does not create a contract with the county (or anyone else). We all pay the same taxes to the same county for the same school district, MCPS. We are all entitled to have our children educated by MCPS. MCPS can organize schools however it sees fit, to deliver that education.

If you want the guarantee of kids from five miles away not sitting next to your kid in her classroom, then buy a house in a town-based system. MCPS is a large school district, and we are ALL entitled to the SAME education by virtue of living here.

If you pay a $200-$400K premium to buy a house in a v. good school district, you will pay more in property taxes .

You pay the same rate. The exact same rate.

Which is the point of a county-based (versus a town-based) school system.

I know I pay the same rate but I pay more in taxes because my house has a higher market value so as far as I can tell, I contribute more to school funding than I did when I lived in my DCC house. I am aware that these funds are pooled which is fine with me BUT I did want to make the point that I do contribute more in tax funding of the school system now than I did when I lived in the DCC.

Actually, what you said was that you pay more in taxes to buy a house in a "v. good school district." This is not accurate. You pay the same tax rate to live in the same school district that you were living in previously, in your DCC house. You are not entitled to better schools as a result of your choice to pay more for your house. You may be getting better schools (or perceive that you are), but you are not entitled to better schools.

If that wasn't the point of you saying that you pay more taxes, then what was your point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To 16:34 - you sound unhinged. People understand that there are bright kids at bad schools. And people understand these kids aren't riff raff and deserve better. Here's the issue people are discussing: the fact that bussing the best and brightest out of the bad school and into the good school won't solve the problem...because the smart kids aren't the problem. Rather, the poorly performing students are the issue. And leaving them behind or mixing them in with other better performing students won't address the underlying cause of their poor performance. Understand? If not, then perhaps you (as an MCPS teacher) are part of the problem.

Actually, bussing the best students out of the bad schools and into the good schools is not what's meant when discussing potential boundary changes. How on earth would they determine who would be moved that way? By a standardized test? Report card grades? It would most likely simply mean having students attend the school that is closest in proximity to their house. For instance, we live closer in proximity to one elementary school than the one my DC is actually assigned to. Growing up, I lived closer to a non W school than the W school I was actually assigned to. Proposing that students will be bussed cross-county is not a feasible option budget-wise for MCPS. It would completely mess up the ability to use school buses for 4 different start times: high school, middle school, Tier A elementary and Tier B elementary. If you had followed the bell times proposal, you would know that there is not money in the budget to be allocated for the extra buses that your understanding of how the (hypothetical) boundary changes would be executed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"Redistributing kids" won't solve the problem. Kids self-segregate - even in some very diverse schools. In the "W schools," they'll self-segregate by money. Do you honestly think some kid living in low-income housing will be welcomed by the kid in the mansion? doubtful

And sprinkling in a few kids coming from disadvantaged homes will make them stand out, as most will be black and Hispanic. Is that fair?

If I had the answer, I'd be a millionaire. But I know that this solution will not work either.

This solution actually does work.

I don't know if a kid in a mansion will welcome a kid living in low-income housing, and I don't know if it's fair to make disadvantaged kids to stand out.

What I do know is that the educational outcomes for poor kids are a lot better in low-poverty schools than in high-poverty schools.

which fails to take into account grade inflation - as the pressure is on to pass minority students

Talk to any of the Hispanic and black males who come out of a W school and enter alternative settings. Ask them how comfortable they felt in a W school. It's not just about grades, which mean nothing in this day and age. It's about well-being.

Finally, let's see how accepting the neighborhoods in Bethesda, Chevy Chase and Potomac will be if the county decides to change boundaries. You will have a fight on your hands as property values immediately plummet - especially if low-incoming housing is thrown into the mix.

So even IF the kids are welcoming, their parents won't be.

So what? We all bought houses in MoCo, districted to MCPS. No one is entitled to a specific school with specific demographics, no matter how much they paid for their house. No one.

Are you for real? Do you genuinely not understand that people pay more for houses in certain school districts? It's not about entitlement, it's about getting what you pay (and scrimp and save and sacrifice other things) for.

That is not how it works. People can pay whatever they want for whatever quality they perceive, but that payment does not create a contract with the county (or anyone else). We all pay the same taxes to the same county for the same school district, MCPS. We are all entitled to have our children educated by MCPS. MCPS can organize schools however it sees fit, to deliver that education.

If you want the guarantee of kids from five miles away not sitting next to your kid in her classroom, then buy a house in a town-based system. MCPS is a large school district, and we are ALL entitled to the SAME education by virtue of living here.

If you pay a $200-$400K premium to buy a house in a v. good school district, you will pay more in property taxes .

You pay the same rate. The exact same rate.

Which is the point of a county-based (versus a town-based) school system.

I know I pay the same rate but I pay more in taxes because my house has a higher market value so as far as I can tell, I contribute more to school funding than I did when I lived in my DCC house. I am aware that these funds are pooled which is fine with me BUT I did want to make the point that I do contribute more in tax funding of the school system now than I did when I lived in the DCC.

Actually, what you said was that you pay more in taxes to buy a house in a "v. good school district." This is not accurate. You pay the same tax rate to live in the same school district that you were living in previously, in your DCC house. You are not entitled to better schools as a result of your choice to pay more for your house. You may be getting better schools (or perceive that you are), but you are not entitled to better schools.

If that wasn't the point of you saying that you pay more taxes, then what was your point?

Are you the same poster that was arguing non-sensically earlier?
WE GET THAT MCPS IS ONE DISTRICT.
You MUST be being purposefully obtuse at this point.

[Anonymous]

Simple boundary changes won't work. All the bad schools essentially border each other. And you can't bus them all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"Redistributing kids" won't solve the problem. Kids self-segregate - even in some very diverse schools. In the "W schools," they'll self-segregate by money. Do you honestly think some kid living in low-income housing will be welcomed by the kid in the mansion? doubtful

And sprinkling in a few kids coming from disadvantaged homes will make them stand out, as most will be black and Hispanic. Is that fair?

If I had the answer, I'd be a millionaire. But I know that this solution will not work either.

This solution actually does work.

I don't know if a kid in a mansion will welcome a kid living in low-income housing, and I don't know if it's fair to make disadvantaged kids to stand out.

What I do know is that the educational outcomes for poor kids are a lot better in low-poverty schools than in high-poverty schools.

which fails to take into account grade inflation - as the pressure is on to pass minority students

Talk to any of the Hispanic and black males who come out of a W school and enter alternative settings. Ask them how comfortable they felt in a W school. It's not just about grades, which mean nothing in this day and age. It's about well-being.

Finally, let's see how accepting the neighborhoods in Bethesda, Chevy Chase and Potomac will be if the county decides to change boundaries. You will have a fight on your hands as property values immediately plummet - especially if low-incoming housing is thrown into the mix.

So even IF the kids are welcoming, their parents won't be.

So what? We all bought houses in MoCo, districted to MCPS. No one is entitled to a specific school with specific demographics, no matter how much they paid for their house. No one.

Are you for real? Do you genuinely not understand that people pay more for houses in certain school districts? It's not about entitlement, it's about getting what you pay (and scrimp and save and sacrifice other things) for.

That is not how it works. People can pay whatever they want for whatever quality they perceive, but that payment does not create a contract with the county (or anyone else). We all pay the same taxes to the same county for the same school district, MCPS. We are all entitled to have our children educated by MCPS. MCPS can organize schools however it sees fit, to deliver that education.

If you want the guarantee of kids from five miles away not sitting next to your kid in her classroom, then buy a house in a town-based system. MCPS is a large school district, and we are ALL entitled to the SAME education by virtue of living here.

If you pay a $200-$400K premium to buy a house in a v. good school district, you will pay more in property taxes .

You pay the same rate. The exact same rate.

Which is the point of a county-based (versus a town-based) school system.

I know I pay the same rate but I pay more in taxes because my house has a higher market value so as far as I can tell, I contribute more to school funding than I did when I lived in my DCC house. I am aware that these funds are pooled which is fine with me BUT I did want to make the point that I do contribute more in tax funding of the school system now than I did when I lived in the DCC.

Actually, what you said was that you pay more in taxes to buy a house in a "v. good school district." This is not accurate. You pay the same tax rate to live in the same school district that you were living in previously, in your DCC house. You are not entitled to better schools as a result of your choice to pay more for your house. You may be getting better schools (or perceive that you are), but you are not entitled to better schools.

If that wasn't the point of you saying that you pay more taxes, then what was your point?

Are you the same poster that was arguing non-sensically earlier?
WE GET THAT MCPS IS ONE DISTRICT.
You MUST be being purposefully obtuse at this point.

Actually, there are many posters on this thread who do not seem to grasp that concept. Who keep referring to where they live as a "v. good school district" and the like - as if it were an entity unto itself. Who are insistent that their choice to "sacrifice" to pay a high mortgage means they get a different school district than those in eastern MoCo.

Read through the thread and you will see many examples of people who do not get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"Redistributing kids" won't solve the problem. Kids self-segregate - even in some very diverse schools. In the "W schools," they'll self-segregate by money. Do you honestly think some kid living in low-income housing will be welcomed by the kid in the mansion? doubtful

And sprinkling in a few kids coming from disadvantaged homes will make them stand out, as most will be black and Hispanic. Is that fair?

If I had the answer, I'd be a millionaire. But I know that this solution will not work either.

This solution actually does work.

I don't know if a kid in a mansion will welcome a kid living in low-income housing, and I don't know if it's fair to make disadvantaged kids to stand out.

What I do know is that the educational outcomes for poor kids are a lot better in low-poverty schools than in high-poverty schools.

which fails to take into account grade inflation - as the pressure is on to pass minority students

Talk to any of the Hispanic and black males who come out of a W school and enter alternative settings. Ask them how comfortable they felt in a W school. It's not just about grades, which mean nothing in this day and age. It's about well-being.

Finally, let's see how accepting the neighborhoods in Bethesda, Chevy Chase and Potomac will be if the county decides to change boundaries. You will have a fight on your hands as property values immediately plummet - especially if low-incoming housing is thrown into the mix.

So even IF the kids are welcoming, their parents won't be.

So what? We all bought houses in MoCo, districted to MCPS. No one is entitled to a specific school with specific demographics, no matter how much they paid for their house. No one.

Are you for real? Do you genuinely not understand that people pay more for houses in certain school districts? It's not about entitlement, it's about getting what you pay (and scrimp and save and sacrifice other things) for.

That is not how it works. People can pay whatever they want for whatever quality they perceive, but that payment does not create a contract with the county (or anyone else). We all pay the same taxes to the same county for the same school district, MCPS. We are all entitled to have our children educated by MCPS. MCPS can organize schools however it sees fit, to deliver that education.

If you want the guarantee of kids from five miles away not sitting next to your kid in her classroom, then buy a house in a town-based system. MCPS is a large school district, and we are ALL entitled to the SAME education by virtue of living here.

If you pay a $200-$400K premium to buy a house in a v. good school district, you will pay more in property taxes .

You pay the same rate. The exact same rate.

Which is the point of a county-based (versus a town-based) school system.

I know I pay the same rate but I pay more in taxes because my house has a higher market value so as far as I can tell, I contribute more to school funding than I did when I lived in my DCC house. I am aware that these funds are pooled which is fine with me BUT I did want to make the point that I do contribute more in tax funding of the school system now than I did when I lived in the DCC.

Actually, what you said was that you pay more in taxes to buy a house in a "v. good school district." This is not accurate. You pay the same tax rate to live in the same school district that you were living in previously, in your DCC house. You are not entitled to better schools as a result of your choice to pay more for your house. You may be getting better schools (or perceive that you are), but you are not entitled to better schools.

If that wasn't the point of you saying that you pay more taxes, then what was your point?

Are you the same poster that was arguing non-sensically earlier?
WE GET THAT MCPS IS ONE DISTRICT.
You MUST be being purposefully obtuse at this point.

Actually, there are many posters on this thread who do not seem to grasp that concept. Who keep referring to where they live as a "v. good school district" and the like - as if it were an entity unto itself. Who are insistent that their choice to "sacrifice" to pay a high mortgage means they get a different school district than those in eastern MoCo.

Read through the thread and you will see many examples of people who do not get it.

Literally, of course. Please don't be so dense. It's painful.

[Anonymous]

I think the question to be asked is what people consider to be "good" schools vs "bad" schools. Is it the kids? The teachers and staff? Administration? Performance on standardized tests? SES of the student population? It's a subjective opinion as to what makes a school good or bad. Are we all talking about the same things when we say "good" schools or "bad" schools? I would be very interested in hearing peoples' opinions on this.

[Anonymous]

To 17:36 - um, this thread is discussing the schools with the lowest test scores that have been labelled as poorly performing schools.