IOWA test results and it's correlation to TJHSST

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it possible that the student admitted to Stanford is URM? Because I know TJ kids with more advanced math/science courses with great credentials who were rejected. Is it possible you did not/could not (due to your math sequence) take many Post AP math and science courses like other top TJ students and thus had less rigorous schedule compared to those who did take many of those Post AP courses?

You could not take AP physics until the senior year due to your math sequence, you could not take Post AP math courses such as linear Algebra, multivariable calculus, complex variables, , numerical analysis, differential equations, AMT etc. due to your math sequence. Did you take Artificial Intelligence, Parallel Computing or Organic Chemistry? You could take those without calculus? Also, you could not take Quantum or Computational physics without calculus but maybe you could in senior year with school permission. Did you take those courses?

The point is you were not able to take most of the post AP courses that most top TJ students take. Thus, although your GPA is great, your transcript may be lacking in rigor relative to other TJ students.

I know there are TJ students who seek out easy courses and easy teachers to maintain high GPAs.

Did you submit original research for Siemens or Intel etc? Did you engage in academic club competitions, sports, any of the Olympiads etc.while maintaining rigorous schedule?

I do not want to take a way from your achievement. However, if you only took 1 or 2 post AP courses or even less, or if you didn't conduct original research (I am not referring to the senior year mandatory research course) what was the point in attending TJ? I am being serious here not trying to be argumentative. Was it just to be around other smart kids? The TJ name? The challenge?

If you want to impress people with your GPA, you have to be prepared for little scrutiny as well.

OMG! Are you kidding me? You might just be the nastiest human being on earth. This accomplished young lady is going to Berkeley on a scholarship. Clearly, she is no idiot. Why are you so snarky? Are you upset your child didn't get in or something?

Simmer down. No need for name calling. No one said she was an idiot. I don't know where you got that idea. This whole thread is about math sequence/track and TJ. The TJ grad says she has a high GPA. However, high GPA is one thing but whether one challenged him/herself, took the hardest courses, took full advantage of the unique opportunities at TJ etc. are also relevant issues. Kids with only Algebra I deserve to be at TJ but let's not kid ourselves that just because 1 student says she received high GPA does not mean that is the end of the discussion. Far from it. There are kids at TJ that take the easy way because that is what they want or because that is what they are forced to do because of the math track. Either way, the issue still remains whether Algebra I kids are the kind of kids TJ was built for. Other posters made it clear it was not impossible for her to take Geometry in middle school or right before 9th grade. Try to have some meaningful discussions without turning everything ugly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Entering TJ with only Algebra is like entering MIT with only precalculus or calculus AB.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should ask other TJ kids how Geometry kids are viewed.

True. I don't think it should matter. A child in geometry at TJ has an advantage over other kids....they don't have to take ridiculous amounts of higher level maths and they can maintain a decent GPA without burning themselves out. Not every child going to TJ wants to become a mathematician, so what's the point of taking anything higher than calculus?

What's the point of going to TJ if you're not going to take anything higher than calculus? That's already offered at the base schools. You need a good two years of math beyond calculus for engineering and more for the pure sciences.

The TJ kid did say she was going into engineering school so maybe she does need higher level math?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should ask other TJ kids how Geometry kids are viewed.

True. I don't think it should matter. A child in geometry at TJ has an advantage over other kids....they don't have to take ridiculous amounts of higher level maths and they can maintain a decent GPA without burning themselves out. Not every child going to TJ wants to become a mathematician, so what's the point of taking anything higher than calculus?

What's the point of going to TJ if you're not going to take anything higher than calculus? That's already offered at the base schools. You need a good two years of math beyond calculus for engineering and more for the pure sciences.

For the environment and the thrill of learning STEM, small class sizes and/or like PP said, launching a satellite! You don't get these at a base school. Not everyone coming out of TJ is going to end up becoming an engineer. Maybe a doctor? They don't need hardcore math for that.

and if they get in, why shouldn't they go? clearly they got in because they deserved it.

Maybe because the FCPS school board revised the selection criteria few months ago to select students who are "Exceptionally skilled Quantitatively" as in :

"To establish a high school for science and technology where students with exceptional quantitative skills and interest in science, technology, engineering, or mathematics, can pursue higher levels of academic achievement in those subjects in preparation for the pursuit of a science, technology, engineering, or mathematics focused profession."

+1

[Anonymous]

can pursue higher levels of academic achievement in those subjects in preparation for the pursuit of a science, technology, engineering, or mathematics focused profession.

I'm not the PP you are responding to, but many of these professions don't actually require much math beyond the calculus sequence. Someone who wants to become a biochemist or a medical researcher really doesn't need advanced math. They are probably better off taking a broad range of advanced science and statistics classes. In looking at TJ's course catalog, I would personally advise my own kid to skip a lot of the AP classes in favor of what seem to be vastly more interesting "elective" science classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will tell my TJ junior with the 4.0 that he is the "dumb one" Maybe that will flatter his ego a bit.

What kind of post AP calculus or post AP science courses your "4.0" TJ junior taking? Is the "4.0" unweighted or weighted?

Weighted, FCPS doesn't calculate unweighted.

Most TJ kids have a very good idea what their unweighted GPAs are and many colleges look at the rigor of the courses and both the weighted and unweigted GPA in evaluating applicants.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the data above 13.5% of admitted freshman had Algebra 1 in 8th grade, so presumable took Geometry in 9th grade.

I think the PP is trying to say that this 13.5% is down to 7% for the 2017 class (current freshmen).

Incoming freshmen taking Geometry will be 4% this year down from 7% last year.

Which essentially means that if the 7th grade student did not take Algebra 1 Honors, they can skip the application process for TJ as it is pointless.

I think above posting shows a disadvantage of taking Geometry at TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

can pursue higher levels of academic achievement in those subjects in preparation for the pursuit of a science, technology, engineering, or mathematics focused profession.

I'm not the PP you are responding to, but many of these professions don't actually require much math beyond the calculus sequence. Someone who wants to become a biochemist or a medical researcher really doesn't need advanced math. They are probably better off taking a broad range of advanced science and statistics classes. In looking at TJ's course catalog, I would personally advise my own kid to skip a lot of the AP classes in favor of what seem to be vastly more interesting "elective" science classes.

She did say she was going into engineering program which requires advanced math. Also, one can possibly save 1 year of college with sufficient AP classes saving lot of college expenses. I am not sure that would be possible with 4 or 5 APs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should ask other TJ kids how Geometry kids are viewed.

True. I don't think it should matter. A child in geometry at TJ has an advantage over other kids....they don't have to take ridiculous amounts of higher level maths and they can maintain a decent GPA without burning themselves out. Not every child going to TJ wants to become a mathematician, so what's the point of taking anything higher than calculus?

What's the point of going to TJ if you're not going to take anything higher than calculus? That's already offered at the base schools. You need a good two years of math beyond calculus for engineering and more for the pure sciences.

For the STE part. Not all science is math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

can pursue higher levels of academic achievement in those subjects in preparation for the pursuit of a science, technology, engineering, or mathematics focused profession.

I'm not the PP you are responding to, but many of these professions don't actually require much math beyond the calculus sequence. Someone who wants to become a biochemist or a medical researcher really doesn't need advanced math. They are probably better off taking a broad range of advanced science and statistics classes. In looking at TJ's course catalog, I would personally advise my own kid to skip a lot of the AP classes in favor of what seem to be vastly more interesting "elective" science classes.

She did say she was going into engineering program which requires advanced math. Also, one can possibly save 1 year of college with sufficient AP classes saving lot of college expenses. I am not sure that would be possible with 4 or 5 APs.

I would not advise my kids to do this. I can afford college because I've been saving since my kids were babies. There is a value to taking these courses again in college. In my experience, the students who tested out had problems in the higher levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

can pursue higher levels of academic achievement in those subjects in preparation for the pursuit of a science, technology, engineering, or mathematics focused profession.

I'm not the PP you are responding to, but many of these professions don't actually require much math beyond the calculus sequence. Someone who wants to become a biochemist or a medical researcher really doesn't need advanced math. They are probably better off taking a broad range of advanced science and statistics classes. In looking at TJ's course catalog, I would personally advise my own kid to skip a lot of the AP classes in favor of what seem to be vastly more interesting "elective" science classes.

She did say she was going into engineering program which requires advanced math. Also, one can possibly save 1 year of college with sufficient AP classes saving lot of college expenses. I am not sure that would be possible with 4 or 5 APs.

I would not advise my kids to do this. I can afford college because I've been saving since my kids were babies. There is a value to taking these courses again in college. In my experience, the students who tested out had problems in the higher levels.

Maybe they were not top TJ graduates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should ask other TJ kids how Geometry kids are viewed.

True. I don't think it should matter. A child in geometry at TJ has an advantage over other kids....they don't have to take ridiculous amounts of higher level maths and they can maintain a decent GPA without burning themselves out. Not every child going to TJ wants to become a mathematician, so what's the point of taking anything higher than calculus?

What's the point of going to TJ if you're not going to take anything higher than calculus? That's already offered at the base schools. You need a good two years of math beyond calculus for engineering and more for the pure sciences.

For the STE part. Not all science is math.

There are two types of science: quantitative (or hard), and qualitative/descriptive. In the latter, people memorize things and regurgitate it back. Even with biology, higher math is important -- for understanding how things behave, including DNA, medicine, evolution, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it possible that the student admitted to Stanford is URM? Because I know TJ kids with more advanced math/science courses with great credentials who were rejected. Is it possible you did not/could not (due to your math sequence) take many Post AP math and science courses like other top TJ students and thus had less rigorous schedule compared to those who did take many of those Post AP courses?

You could not take AP physics until the senior year due to your math sequence, you could not take Post AP math courses such as linear Algebra, multivariable calculus, complex variables, , numerical analysis, differential equations, AMT etc. due to your math sequence. Did you take Artificial Intelligence, Parallel Computing or Organic Chemistry? You could take those without calculus? Also, you could not take Quantum or Computational physics without calculus but maybe you could in senior year with school permission. Did you take those courses?

The point is you were not able to take most of the post AP courses that most top TJ students take. Thus, although your GPA is great, your transcript may be lacking in rigor relative to other TJ students.

I know there are TJ students who seek out easy courses and easy teachers to maintain high GPAs.

Did you submit original research for Siemens or Intel etc? Did you engage in academic club competitions, sports, any of the Olympiads etc.while maintaining rigorous schedule?

I do not want to take a way from your achievement. However, if you only took 1 or 2 post AP courses or even less, or if you didn't conduct original research (I am not referring to the senior year mandatory research course) what was the point in attending TJ? I am being serious here not trying to be argumentative. Was it just to be around other smart kids? The TJ name? The challenge?

If you want to impress people with your GPA, you have to be prepared for little scrutiny as well.

OMG! Are you kidding me? You might just be the nastiest human being on earth. This accomplished young lady is going to Berkeley on a scholarship. Clearly, she is no idiot. Why are you so snarky? Are you upset your child didn't get in or something?

Simmer down. No need for name calling. No one said she was an idiot. I don't know where you got that idea. This whole thread is about math sequence/track and TJ. The TJ grad says she has a high GPA. However, high GPA is one thing but whether one challenged him/herself, took the hardest courses, took full advantage of the unique opportunities at TJ etc. are also relevant issues. Kids with only Algebra I deserve to be at TJ but let's not kid ourselves that just because 1 student says she received high GPA does not mean that is the end of the discussion. Far from it. There are kids at TJ that take the easy way because that is what they want or because that is what they are forced to do because of the math track. Either way, the issue still remains whether Algebra I kids are the kind of kids TJ was built for. Other posters made it clear it was not impossible for her to take Geometry in middle school or right before 9th grade. Try to have some meaningful discussions without turning everything ugly.

+1 I agree. By a TJ parent.

[Anonymous]

Even with biology, higher math is important -- for understanding how things behave, including DNA, medicine, evolution, etc.

15:36 again. I agree. But you still don't need much past the calculus sequence. Statistics and epidemiology classes would be a lot more beneficial. And I would not want to personally "waste" my time at a place like TJ taking calculus classes when there are many more enriching science options available, especially if I did not want to be in a math heavy major.

And I don't think engineering or medicine are math heavy. Most engineers I know only took 2-3 math classes beyond the calculus sequence and I think there is value in taking those classes at your college. Medicine and other bio/life sciences as well. They are better off taking statistics, epidemiology, and other statistical modeling classes. And again, I think better at your college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Even with biology, higher math is important -- for understanding how things behave, including DNA, medicine, evolution, etc.

15:36 again. I agree. But you still don't need much past the calculus sequence. Statistics and epidemiology classes would be a lot more beneficial. And I would not want to personally "waste" my time at a place like TJ taking calculus classes when there are many more enriching science options available, especially if I did not want to be in a math heavy major.

And I don't think engineering or medicine are math heavy. Most engineers I know only took 2-3 math classes beyond the calculus sequence and I think there is value in taking those classes at your college. Medicine and other bio/life sciences as well. They are better off taking statistics, epidemiology, and other statistical modeling classes. And again, I think better at your college.

There is a trend towards new fields that are math intensive even for biology/medicine such as bioinformatics, bio-engineering, bio-medical engineering, computational medicine etc. The future is more math and computer science oriented even for bio/medicine. TJ students should be part of the new and exciting new fields and not shy away from these new fields because they don't want any advanced math. Even base high schools offer multivariable calculus and linear algebra. There are hundreds of kids in those classes at base schools presumably many of them rejected from TJ to make room for TJ kids who will graduate with calculus AB. You can take math courses and still take advanced science courses.