Homework that is busywork - does anyone else just say no?

[Anonymous]

Its unfortunate this thread is so full of mud slinging, because it is an important topic. The research says that there is no benefit to homework in elementary school. Given that fact, and the fact that schools assign homework anyway (partly from parent pressure) what is a parent to do? We've found decided to send our kid to a small private that follows the evidence and doesn't assign homework till mid elementary, and then there are supposed to be clear learning goals to each piece. But that isn't an option for everyone. So some parents try to battle the system, others opt out of homework for their own kid, and others tell their kid to suck it up. Its just a bummer, and we'd get a lot farther if we could at least agree on the evidence and ask schools to follow it. Then we wouldn't be snapping at each other, which is useless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are the kids who grow to be those insufferable entry-level hires at the office who think they're above doing the boring parts of their jobs.

No, they will grow up to be the workers who know how to assess workflow and prioritize tasks.

If they can manage to move up that far, what with the enormous entitled chips on their shoulders and all. Those of us who are currently in management positions find these young 'uns to be totally insufferable brats. When I get attitude like that, you can be damned sure I'm not handing you any choice assignments that would allow you to shine or going out of my way to help you. Pay your dues with a smile on your face or toil in the lower ranks for a long, long time. Or you know, leave.

Who said anything about attitude? You are mixing up work skills with manners.

No, I'm not. You just didn't comprehend my point. My point is that these kids who have great "work skills" but think they are too good for the work that I give them are never going to go anywhere in my organization, and I wouldn't lift a finger to help them. Read the bolded quote above. I am directly challenging your notion that kids who are taught that they can pick and choose which tasks are worthy of them grow up to be awesome workers. They often don't. They grow up to be smart kids with lots of skills but shitty attitudes that people HATE working with. If your 22 year old ass gives me attitude about the work I'm giving you, you can pretty much be assured that I'm not giving you anything more challenging (you know, the kinds of tasks that would help you demonstrate those amazing abilities to "assess workflow and prioritize tasks"). So I'm suggesting that your smug assertion is not assured and that you better be careful what kind of kid you are raising. Don't believe me? I recently worked for a university and knew lots of alums in management who bitched about this very situation almost every time I saw them. So I am totally not alone.

YES - we must make our kids into a race of slave warriors just like on Game of Thrones! Thank you Master Craftsman!!

Did you ever stop to think that the REASON why this generation of kids is entitled is that they are assigned meaningless worksheet busywork (the lazy way to educate) instead of being truly taught and given the opportunity to develop their executive function? The millenials are the worksheet generation. You and I probably never had homework until third or fourth grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would hope this is a small minority of parents who don't support doing homework of any kind. I think for purposes of this discussion we are all agreeing that we are only discussing homework that we might not think is important for our kids to do for whatever reason. My kid brought home math work tonight that she did in mere minutes. I would have PREFERRED she had harder homework (to her level) so it took longer and more thought. I don't think my preference, however, has anything to do with whether the homework merrited being completed.

You all who don't 'make' your kids do homework are a sorry lot. Your kids are the ones who grow up feeling sheltered, entitled, questioning everything, and are usually annoying to others. I was made to do homework and didn't grow up without creativity or creative outlets. I had plenty of family time and learning outside the classroom and outside homework time. I'm STILL glad my parents made me do every assignment.

Yawn.

This is probably the same response your child will regurgitate some day when trying to have a conversation with someone. Why? Because his mom/dad taught him to reject others beliefs/restrictions if they don't comport to his families' view of what is right. Again, it is a ridiculous idea to think that the choice is doing homework OR meaningful learning. I think both can be done and DO NOT think they are mutuall exclusive. That is like saying "my kid can read, so my kid doesn't need to look at picture books." There are things to learn in nearly all we do: patience, understanding, turn taking, etc. My kids have both been reading since 4, yet we still read picture books AND chapter books. Why? Because there are still things to learn. (Last night's picture book had Big Foot in it (not something that is typically known by a young kid) and also a lot of sayings "I'm all ears," "his ears perked up" "all eyes on me" "dead right" etc.) It is similar to homework...there is a reason for it in general and even if not, your kid won't suffer from it. Get off your computer and go help your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are the kids who grow to be those insufferable entry-level hires at the office who think they're above doing the boring parts of their jobs.

No, they will grow up to be the workers who know how to assess workflow and prioritize tasks.

If they can manage to move up that far, what with the enormous entitled chips on their shoulders and all. Those of us who are currently in management positions find these young 'uns to be totally insufferable brats. When I get attitude like that, you can be damned sure I'm not handing you any choice assignments that would allow you to shine or going out of my way to help you. Pay your dues with a smile on your face or toil in the lower ranks for a long, long time. Or you know, leave.

Who said anything about attitude? You are mixing up work skills with manners.

No, I'm not. You just didn't comprehend my point. My point is that these kids who have great "work skills" but think they are too good for the work that I give them are never going to go anywhere in my organization, and I wouldn't lift a finger to help them. Read the bolded quote above. I am directly challenging your notion that kids who are taught that they can pick and choose which tasks are worthy of them grow up to be awesome workers. They often don't. They grow up to be smart kids with lots of skills but shitty attitudes that people HATE working with. If your 22 year old ass gives me attitude about the work I'm giving you, you can pretty much be assured that I'm not giving you anything more challenging (you know, the kinds of tasks that would help you demonstrate those amazing abilities to "assess workflow and prioritize tasks"). So I'm suggesting that your smug assertion is not assured and that you better be careful what kind of kid you are raising. Don't believe me? I recently worked for a university and knew lots of alums in management who bitched about this very situation almost every time I saw them. So I am totally not alone.

YES - we must make our kids into a race of slave warriors just like on Game of Thrones! Thank you Master Craftsman!!

Did you ever stop to think that the REASON why this generation of kids is entitled is that they are assigned meaningless worksheet busywork (the lazy way to educate) instead of being truly taught and given the opportunity to develop their executive function? The millenials are the worksheet generation. You and I probably never had homework until third or fourth grade.

Nope...the reason this generation of kids is entitled is because of parents like you who are too permissive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are the kids who grow to be those insufferable entry-level hires at the office who think they're above doing the boring parts of their jobs.

No, they will grow up to be the workers who know how to assess workflow and prioritize tasks.

If they can manage to move up that far, what with the enormous entitled chips on their shoulders and all. Those of us who are currently in management positions find these young 'uns to be totally insufferable brats. When I get attitude like that, you can be damned sure I'm not handing you any choice assignments that would allow you to shine or going out of my way to help you. Pay your dues with a smile on your face or toil in the lower ranks for a long, long time. Or you know, leave.

Who said anything about attitude? You are mixing up work skills with manners.

No, I'm not. You just didn't comprehend my point. My point is that these kids who have great "work skills" but think they are too good for the work that I give them are never going to go anywhere in my organization, and I wouldn't lift a finger to help them. Read the bolded quote above. I am directly challenging your notion that kids who are taught that they can pick and choose which tasks are worthy of them grow up to be awesome workers. They often don't. They grow up to be smart kids with lots of skills but shitty attitudes that people HATE working with. If your 22 year old ass gives me attitude about the work I'm giving you, you can pretty much be assured that I'm not giving you anything more challenging (you know, the kinds of tasks that would help you demonstrate those amazing abilities to "assess workflow and prioritize tasks"). So I'm suggesting that your smug assertion is not assured and that you better be careful what kind of kid you are raising. Don't believe me? I recently worked for a university and knew lots of alums in management who bitched about this very situation almost every time I saw them. So I am totally not alone.

YES - we must make our kids into a race of slave warriors just like on Game of Thrones! Thank you Master Craftsman!!

Did you ever stop to think that the REASON why this generation of kids is entitled is that they are assigned meaningless worksheet busywork (the lazy way to educate) instead of being truly taught and given the opportunity to develop their executive function? The millenials are the worksheet generation. You and I probably never had homework until third or fourth grade.

You sound like a high-schooler who just learned about Fascism and now has lots of insights to share about SOCIETY, MAN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would hope this is a small minority of parents who don't support doing homework of any kind. I think for purposes of this discussion we are all agreeing that we are only discussing homework that we might not think is important for our kids to do for whatever reason. My kid brought home math work tonight that she did in mere minutes. I would have PREFERRED she had harder homework (to her level) so it took longer and more thought. I don't think my preference, however, has anything to do with whether the homework merrited being completed.

You all who don't 'make' your kids do homework are a sorry lot. Your kids are the ones who grow up feeling sheltered, entitled, questioning everything, and are usually annoying to others. I was made to do homework and didn't grow up without creativity or creative outlets. I had plenty of family time and learning outside the classroom and outside homework time. I'm STILL glad my parents made me do every assignment.

Yawn.

This is probably the same response your child will regurgitate some day when trying to have a conversation with someone. Why? Because his mom/dad taught him to reject others beliefs/restrictions if they don't comport to his families' view of what is right. Again, it is a ridiculous idea to think that the choice is doing homework OR meaningful learning. I think both can be done and DO NOT think they are mutuall exclusive. That is like saying "my kid can read, so my kid doesn't need to look at picture books." There are things to learn in nearly all we do: patience, understanding, turn taking, etc. My kids have both been reading since 4, yet we still read picture books AND chapter books. Why? Because there are still things to learn. (Last night's picture book had Big Foot in it (not something that is typically known by a young kid) and also a lot of sayings "I'm all ears," "his ears perked up" "all eyes on me" "dead right" etc.) It is similar to homework...there is a reason for it in general and even if not, your kid won't suffer from it. Get off your computer and go help your kids.

Perhaps you might benefit from some cognitive behavioral therapy. You take one little scenario - not requiring my elementary kids to do busywork - blow it up and take it to the most extreme conclusion. If you're doing this with anonymous strangers, I hate to think what you do with real issues involving people you know. I know it can be difficult to reign in but you don't have to struggle with it. There is help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would hope this is a small minority of parents who don't support doing homework of any kind. I think for purposes of this discussion we are all agreeing that we are only discussing homework that we might not think is important for our kids to do for whatever reason. My kid brought home math work tonight that she did in mere minutes. I would have PREFERRED she had harder homework (to her level) so it took longer and more thought. I don't think my preference, however, has anything to do with whether the homework merrited being completed.

You all who don't 'make' your kids do homework are a sorry lot. Your kids are the ones who grow up feeling sheltered, entitled, questioning everything, and are usually annoying to others. I was made to do homework and didn't grow up without creativity or creative outlets. I had plenty of family time and learning outside the classroom and outside homework time. I'm STILL glad my parents made me do every assignment.

Yawn.

This is probably the same response your child will regurgitate some day when trying to have a conversation with someone. Why? Because his mom/dad taught him to reject others beliefs/restrictions if they don't comport to his families' view of what is right. Again, it is a ridiculous idea to think that the choice is doing homework OR meaningful learning. I think both can be done and DO NOT think they are mutuall exclusive. That is like saying "my kid can read, so my kid doesn't need to look at picture books." There are things to learn in nearly all we do: patience, understanding, turn taking, etc. My kids have both been reading since 4, yet we still read picture books AND chapter books. Why? Because there are still things to learn. (Last night's picture book had Big Foot in it (not something that is typically known by a young kid) and also a lot of sayings "I'm all ears," "his ears perked up" "all eyes on me" "dead right" etc.) It is similar to homework...there is a reason for it in general and even if not, your kid won't suffer from it. Get off your computer and go help your kids.

Perhaps you might benefit from some cognitive behavioral therapy. You take one little scenario - not requiring my elementary kids to do busywork - blow it up and take it to the most extreme conclusion. If you're doing this with anonymous strangers, I hate to think what you do with real issues involving people you know. I know it can be difficult to reign in but you don't have to struggle with it. There is help.

Sorry, this doesn't make sense. Making sense may have been taught with the homework you missed as a kid...

[Anonymous]

Sorry, this doesn't make sense. Making sense may have been taught with the homework you missed as a kid..

Let me help you understand it. You claim that not doing homework will cause my elementary school aged child to “grow up feeling sheltered, entitled, questioning everything, and are usually annoying to others” and homework teaches one ‘sense’. You have latched onto homework completion as if it is the only thing guiding a young child’s positive development and if the child doesn’t do the homework the child will grow up with horrible personality traits and lacking sense. That is extreme thinking and indicates you have a lot of anxiety regarding homework completion – who wants their child to grow up with all those horrible personality traits that you and PPs have noted (or maybe it’s just you)?! So, of course, homework must be done so your child can avoid that fate.

The problem is that this kind of thinking isn’t grounded in reality or fact. It’s grounded in fear. And, unless you learn to interrupt those thoughts, they’re self-reinforcing. Children will not suffer all these negative consequences you’re imagining if they don’t do homework. They won’t. Cognitive behavioral therapy can help you stop these extreme thoughts and overcome your fears regarding uncompleted homework. If you post what area you live, I’m sure people can provide recommendations for good CPT therapists or you can start a new post. It may be hard but you don't have to have to suffer with that kind of thinking. Help is available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry, this doesn't make sense. Making sense may have been taught with the homework you missed as a kid..

Let me help you understand it. You claim that not doing homework will cause my elementary school aged child to “grow up feeling sheltered, entitled, questioning everything, and are usually annoying to others” and homework teaches one ‘sense’. You have latched onto homework completion as if it is the only thing guiding a young child’s positive development and if the child doesn’t do the homework the child will grow up with horrible personality traits and lacking sense. That is extreme thinking and indicates you have a lot of anxiety regarding homework completion – who wants their child to grow up with all those horrible personality traits that you and PPs have noted (or maybe it’s just you)?! So, of course, homework must be done so your child can avoid that fate.

The problem is that this kind of thinking isn’t grounded in reality or fact. It’s grounded in fear. And, unless you learn to interrupt those thoughts, they’re self-reinforcing. Children will not suffer all these negative consequences you’re imagining if they don’t do homework. They won’t. Cognitive behavioral therapy can help you stop these extreme thoughts and overcome your fears regarding uncompleted homework. If you post what area you live, I’m sure people can provide recommendations for good CPT therapists or you can start a new post. It may be hard but you don't have to have to suffer with that kind of thinking. Help is available.

You've completely misunderstood...it is the allowing a kid to not do work assigned that is the problem. It sends a message to the child. (It isn't that the kid is missing the homework itself that will be an issue...ut saying "you don't have to do that" does send a message to a child. Just like not going to a team sport game, or not abiding by a first RSVP when a better proposal comes along...all these things send messages to our kids. I will never agree that this is the right thing to do. I personally think it is stupid that my kids HAVE to participate in fund raisers for their sports teams. I think Sally Foster items are stupid. I think scout cookies/popcorn are stupid. But I don't relay that to my kids...I suck it up and do my responsibility as well.

[Anonymous]

I 100% agree with the previous post. You are raising your child up with the mindset that it is okay to pick out what YOUR family thinks is appropriate. It is not whether you think or your child thinks the work is relevant (or attending school is necessary), it is about abiding by commitments set by those in positions of authority over your child. The same is true for a boss, a class in college, etc. You seem to be solely focused on the argument that the assignments aren't helping your child and won't hurt your child. I'm not focusing on that. I'm focusing on the message you're sending to your child. There are non-negotiables in life, whether we like it or not. Perhaps that message is not that important to you so you don't convey it to your kids on an ongoing, non-wavering basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I 100% agree with the previous post. You are raising your child up with the mindset that it is okay to pick out what YOUR family thinks is appropriate. It is not whether you think or your child thinks the work is relevant (or attending school is necessary), it is about abiding by commitments set by those in positions of authority over your child. The same is true for a boss, a class in college, etc. You seem to be solely focused on the argument that the assignments aren't helping your child and won't hurt your child. I'm not focusing on that. I'm focusing on the message you're sending to your child. There are non-negotiables in life, whether we like it or not. Perhaps that message is not that important to you so you don't convey it to your kids on an ongoing, non-wavering basis.

I am still flabbergasted at the view that the family should take second place to whatever random thing the school decides to do. Surely there is a limit? No, I will not be teaching my child that the rules never apply to him. But I sure as hell will not let teachers (or coaches or whatever) materially interfere with our home life. Guess what, I am the parent, and I in fact do decide what is appropriate in my own home, on our own time. This would not be such a big deal if homework etc was not eating up such a big slice of time - especially considering that it has to actual educational value ...

[Anonymous]

Reason #251 why I'm glad we're homeschooling. Four years and still no power struggles over homework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I 100% agree with the previous post. You are raising your child up with the mindset that it is okay to pick out what YOUR family thinks is appropriate. It is not whether you think or your child thinks the work is relevant (or attending school is necessary), it is about abiding by commitments set by those in positions of authority over your child. The same is true for a boss, a class in college, etc. You seem to be solely focused on the argument that the assignments aren't helping your child and won't hurt your child. I'm not focusing on that. I'm focusing on the message you're sending to your child. There are non-negotiables in life, whether we like it or not. Perhaps that message is not that important to you so you don't convey it to your kids on an ongoing, non-wavering basis.

I am still flabbergasted at the view that the family should take second place to whatever random thing the school decides to do. Surely there is a limit? No, I will not be teaching my child that the rules never apply to him. But I sure as hell will not let teachers (or coaches or whatever) materially interfere with our home life. Guess what, I am the parent, and I in fact do decide what is appropriate in my own home, on our own time. This would not be such a big deal if homework etc was not eating up such a big slice of time - especially considering that it has to actual educational value ...

Lady, no one will ever convince you that your attitude will be a detriment to your children, so have at it and drop it already. Good luck with all that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I 100% agree with the previous post. You are raising your child up with the mindset that it is okay to pick out what YOUR family thinks is appropriate. It is not whether you think or your child thinks the work is relevant (or attending school is necessary), it is about abiding by commitments set by those in positions of authority over your child. The same is true for a boss, a class in college, etc. You seem to be solely focused on the argument that the assignments aren't helping your child and won't hurt your child. I'm not focusing on that. I'm focusing on the message you're sending to your child. There are non-negotiables in life, whether we like it or not. Perhaps that message is not that important to you so you don't convey it to your kids on an ongoing, non-wavering basis.

I am still flabbergasted at the view that the family should take second place to whatever random thing the school decides to do. Surely there is a limit? No, I will not be teaching my child that the rules never apply to him. But I sure as hell will not let teachers (or coaches or whatever) materially interfere with our home life. Guess what, I am the parent, and I in fact do decide what is appropriate in my own home, on our own time. This would not be such a big deal if homework etc was not eating up such a big slice of time - especially considering that it has to actual educational value ...

Lady, no one will ever convince you that your attitude will be a detriment to your children, so have at it and drop it already. Good luck with all that.

Not the PP you're responding to but I, too, will never be convinced that our attitudes on homework will be a detriment to our kids. When our kids started school, we made no commitment to do homework and the school only has authority our kids when they're in school, not when they're home. My kids know there are consequences to their actions and decisions. They don't need homework to teach them that.

I'm done with this thread and the homework Nazis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Its unfortunate this thread is so full of mud slinging, because it is an important topic. The research says that there is no benefit to homework in elementary school. Given that fact, and the fact that schools assign homework anyway (partly from parent pressure) what is a parent to do? We've found decided to send our kid to a small private that follows the evidence and doesn't assign homework till mid elementary, and then there are supposed to be clear learning goals to each piece. But that isn't an option for everyone. So some parents try to battle the system, others opt out of homework for their own kid, and others tell their kid to suck it up. Its just a bummer, and we'd get a lot farther if we could at least agree on the evidence and ask schools to follow it. Then we wouldn't be snapping at each other, which is useless.

What research says that? Can you provide recent and relevant citations of studies contrasting the academic performance of kids exposed to much vs. some vs. no homework?