When the reality of college cost hits. Cannot do dream school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents took home equity loans to pay for our colleges.

My husband fought in wars and committed to extra years of service for our kids college only partially paid.

These people are teachers. They also are serving the community. As do nurses. And many others.

+1. Many jobs like this require education and dedication, while double incomes just make a bit higher than 200K. And they also need to take care of multiple generations. I don't understand why they are not qualified for aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Totally understand. This is absolutely true because I see several very similar cases. OPP, at least this an IVY. I saw families struggling for a top 20 or 30.
I would suggest you consider the major. If the kid is in a major that easy to get money back, it's OK to have some loan. Or else, have to choose what is affordable.

But, no she didn't fail her kid. This system failed those wonderful kids.

I agree the system fails a lot of kids but don’t agree going to a name-brand school is some sort of right. Some posters are mourning for OP’s niece as though she can’t go to any college. She is going to college, likely to a great state school or T50 or even T30. She just can’t go to an Ivy. Actually she could if her parents are willing to sell their house, downsize to a smaller house, use some of the property equity gains, get a 2nd mortgage, if she is willing to take a gap year, take on a PT job…there are lots of ways. But they are not willing to be flexible and they must have the Ivy when she could be getting just as good an education minus the brand name. I don’t really think this is the same as the system failing kids because their “need” appears to be a pretentious/materialistic one.

Purely talking about this solution. I am always confused. I also heard some people said they planned a gap year to save money for medical school or law school. I just can't imagine how it can work. What kind of job/payment can a high school graduate get? minimum pay? After living cost, how much can he save in a year? 10K? If it can help tuition, there is no way so many families save for many years and still can't afford it. The same as college graduate. Working for a year can pay for medical school? It's such a common saying that I never understand.

a min wage job is 40k a year.

Then exclude food, clothes, gas, eletricity....... Private colleges/Medical school/law school are 100K a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Totally understand. This is absolutely true because I see several very similar cases. OPP, at least this an IVY. I saw families struggling for a top 20 or 30.
I would suggest you consider the major. If the kid is in a major that easy to get money back, it's OK to have some loan. Or else, have to choose what is affordable.

But, no she didn't fail her kid. This system failed those wonderful kids.

I agree the system fails a lot of kids but don’t agree going to a name-brand school is some sort of right. Some posters are mourning for OP’s niece as though she can’t go to any college. She is going to college, likely to a great state school or T50 or even T30. She just can’t go to an Ivy. Actually she could if her parents are willing to sell their house, downsize to a smaller house, use some of the property equity gains, get a 2nd mortgage, if she is willing to take a gap year, take on a PT job…there are lots of ways. But they are not willing to be flexible and they must have the Ivy when she could be getting just as good an education minus the brand name. I don’t really think this is the same as the system failing kids because their “need” appears to be a pretentious/materialistic one.

Purely talking about this solution. I am always confused. I also heard some people said they planned a gap year to save money for medical school or law school. I just can't imagine how it can work. What kind of job/payment can a high school graduate get? minimum pay? After living cost, how much can he save in a year? 10K? If it can help tuition, there is no way so many families save for many years and still can't afford it. The same as college graduate. Working for a year can pay for medical school? It's such a common saying that I never understand.

a min wage job is 40k a year.

First of all, what? The minimum wage in Virginia is $12.77/hr. Even assuming 40 hours a week (which is super unlikely bc employers don’t want to pay benefits), you’ll make $25,540 a year. Not close to 40k. But more importantly, virtually all colleges assess student assets as being 100% available to cover tuition. That means if the student saves 25k, aid will be dollar-for-dollar reduced by 25k. There is no incentive to take a gap year and work unless you qualify for zero aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Totally understand. This is absolutely true because I see several very similar cases. OPP, at least this an IVY. I saw families struggling for a top 20 or 30.
I would suggest you consider the major. If the kid is in a major that easy to get money back, it's OK to have some loan. Or else, have to choose what is affordable.

But, no she didn't fail her kid. This system failed those wonderful kids.

I agree the system fails a lot of kids but don’t agree going to a name-brand school is some sort of right. Some posters are mourning for OP’s niece as though she can’t go to any college. She is going to college, likely to a great state school or T50 or even T30. She just can’t go to an Ivy. Actually she could if her parents are willing to sell their house, downsize to a smaller house, use some of the property equity gains, get a 2nd mortgage, if she is willing to take a gap year, take on a PT job…there are lots of ways. But they are not willing to be flexible and they must have the Ivy when she could be getting just as good an education minus the brand name. I don’t really think this is the same as the system failing kids because their “need” appears to be a pretentious/materialistic one.

Purely talking about this solution. I am always confused. I also heard some people said they planned a gap year to save money for medical school or law school. I just can't imagine how it can work. What kind of job/payment can a high school graduate get? minimum pay? After living cost, how much can he save in a year? 10K? If it can help tuition, there is no way so many families save for many years and still can't afford it. The same as college graduate. Working for a year can pay for medical school? It's such a common saying that I never understand.

a min wage job is 40k a year.

Then exclude food, clothes, gas, eletricity....... Private colleges/Medical school/law school are 100K a year.

Live at home for the year. Let’s say you bank $20k. That puts a dent in it. And if I was interviewing this person for a full time job I would be very impressed.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like it was never going to be affordable. Why even apply?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:College isn't a right, it's a luxury good.

There are many, many reasons it is unaffordable for qualified, motivated students:
-low paying parental jobs (even if they are noble)
-health care costs/medical emergencies
-layoffs/unemployment/redirecting careers
-caring for multiple generations, children, etc.

There are also many, many ways to make it a reality - even if you aren't rich.

In most European countries, colleges are free or affordable for citizens. In the current world, college is a privilege only in USA. So is med care. Isn't this system failure?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College isn't a right, it's a luxury good.

There are many, many reasons it is unaffordable for qualified, motivated students:
-low paying parental jobs (even if they are noble)
-health care costs/medical emergencies
-layoffs/unemployment/redirecting careers
-caring for multiple generations, children, etc.

There are also many, many ways to make it a reality - even if you aren't rich.

In most part of the world , colleges are free or affordable for citizens. In the current world, college is a privilege only in USA. So is med care. Isn't this system failure?

FIFY

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

That is exactly what Ivies (excluding Princeton) ask of families such as described. We were in the same position last year with slightly higher income and the schools asked for between $63k and $72k. It’s obscene how bad the financial aid is at the Ivy league level.

Not to be a turd by why do the schools "owe" you aid? Going to an Ivy is a privilege, not a right. If you can't make it work, I'm sorry. Lots of other great schools out there that might be cheaper.

And sorry if people have multiple kids. Should have thought about that before having more kids (I feel a bit worse for those with twins). I knew what I wanted to be able to pay for for my kids and that having more than two kids would prohibit that, so we stopped at two. Three would have been nice but the sacrifices weren't worth it. Plus the fact that you get more aid if you have two kids in college at the same time but less if kids are further apart? That makes no sense.

Because we as a country still like to believe in the myth of meritocracy, that elite college slots goes to those who earned it on merit, and that college is the gateway to upward social mobility. And these elite institutions with more money than entire countries pay virtually no taxes on the assumption that they're doing a public good and serving society.

And it's very fair to question the outrageous cost of higher education. It's like this nowhere else in the world. Even UVA in-state is over $40,000 per year. That is not accessible or affordable to the vast majority of Virginians. An undergrad can't borrow enough to cover even a quarter of that.

Upward social mobility isn't always zero to sixty in one step. Sometimes it is multi-generational. Poor FGLI kid goes to a good state school to step up the social class ladder. Then perhaps their kid makes the next jump to Ivies.

I am supportive of financial aid and helping families. But I think that schools have gone overboard with the virtue signaling and tripping over themselves to attract low income families. Some number of them is great, particularly the many who truly deserve to be there - as you said, "meritocracy." But diversity for the sake of diversity, which is currently often the case, is going too far. I think the NY Times had an article a year or two ago basically shaming schools for not having enough poor kids. Really? If it was zero I would get it. But they all had a fair amount and the Times was making huge generalizations saying the school with 12% is much worse than the one with 14%, which is basically statistical noise and still more than enough. I say this as a lifelong Democrat.

This is a weird take. Most people acknowledge that smart kids with raw talent can come from any income group. Most people who go to an elite college want to be surrounded by the best and the brightest. If only kids whose parents can afford nearly 100k per year to attend, the students won’t be the best and the brightest, and it won’t be the educational experience marketed.

Right now, most ivies have only about half of families receiving ANY aid at all. That means half come from families making enough money to shell out around 100k a year. That’s an insanely out-of-whack distribution. It means that most students come from the top 5% in terms of wealth, even though intelligence isn’t distributed accordingly. That’s worthy of criticism. It’s especially worthy of criticism when these schools have tens of billions in assets shielded from tax liability but exist to overwhelmingly serve the rich. It’s not right.

I'm supportive of financial aid. But I think it has gone too far. Big difference. The whole "you owe nothing if your family makes under $200k" irks me. I'm not saying give them nothing. But that is sufficient for them to have a little skin in the game. If you were consistently making $150k plus for a few years leading up to your kid going to college, you could have been saving a little bit. Not a lot. But something.

And your kid can get a job. Personally, I wish admissions committees screamed from the rooftops that they look favorably upon kids who work, including and particularly service jobs like waiters, scooping ice cream, or whatever else - it shows a good work ethic and builds character and people skills. I think this is much more impressive than most of the phony extra-curriculars that kids do.

+1 million

And I also agree something is off about the numbers. I wonder if the family has other assets or a recent inheritance.

-Former waitress and HYSP alum

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

Agree there are large missing assets to this story. Or. OP is a troll.

I stated explicitly in my original post that my sister has a good deal of home equity but it's not about to sell her long time home to send her child to college. I think we can all agree that the middle class gets screwed in this process. Several other teachers have commented here in similar situations. You make too much for meaningful aid but not nearly enough that you can afford such a huge sticker price. And people should not have to sell their houses to send their kids to college. Which my sister is not going to do. My niece will probably end up at her state flagship and be fine. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't stink to have to tell your child that you cannot afford their dream college after they work their butt off for years and years. Can't we all agree on that?

OP, what posters are reacting negatively to is not that your sister won’t sell her house, but that there must be more to the story. I and other families have been through this process with selective, needs blind schools, and a family making $200k with little or no assets outside of retirement accounts and home equity are not asked to pay full freight. Period. That means there must be a ton of home equity - like $1 million+ — non-retirement savings, 529 plans, etc. Why don’t you share the whole story? Or, maybe your sister is withholding important facts from you. Tell her you ran the NPC calculator and their story doesn’t add up.

[Anonymous]

Save the ivy for grad school. Go to a decent public university or college for undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, parents should consider this before allowing their kid to even apply to the dream school. And let them know they are only going to the OOS flagship if they get sufficient merit. Once at the OOS flagship, they know they need to do well to get into grad school. Great motivator to do well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

Agree there are large missing assets to this story. Or. OP is a troll.

I stated explicitly in my original post that my sister has a good deal of home equity but it's not about to sell her long time home to send her child to college. I think we can all agree that the middle class gets screwed in this process. Several other teachers have commented here in similar situations. You make too much for meaningful aid but not nearly enough that you can afford such a huge sticker price. And people should not have to sell their houses to send their kids to college. Which my sister is not going to do. My niece will probably end up at her state flagship and be fine. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't stink to have to tell your child that you cannot afford their dream college after they work their butt off for years and years. Can't we all agree on that?

OP, what posters are reacting negatively to is not that your sister won’t sell her house, but that there must be more to the story. I and other families have been through this process with selective, needs blind schools, and a family making $200k with little or no assets outside of retirement accounts and home equity are not asked to pay full freight. Period. That means there must be a ton of home equity - like $1 million+ — non-retirement savings, 529 plans, etc. Why don’t you share the whole story? Or, maybe your sister is withholding important facts from you. Tell her you ran the NPC calculator and their story doesn’t add up.

I'm not OP. But I don't think it is important. If you live in DMV where the public high schools score 9 or 10, the houses are more than 1m. As long as you have paid about half, you have no chance for financial aid. This is just so cruel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

Agree there are large missing assets to this story. Or. OP is a troll.

I stated explicitly in my original post that my sister has a good deal of home equity but it's not about to sell her long time home to send her child to college. I think we can all agree that the middle class gets screwed in this process. Several other teachers have commented here in similar situations. You make too much for meaningful aid but not nearly enough that you can afford such a huge sticker price. And people should not have to sell their houses to send their kids to college. Which my sister is not going to do. My niece will probably end up at her state flagship and be fine. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't stink to have to tell your child that you cannot afford their dream college after they work their butt off for years and years. Can't we all agree on that?

OP, what posters are reacting negatively to is not that your sister won’t sell her house, but that there must be more to the story. I and other families have been through this process with selective, needs blind schools, and a family making $200k with little or no assets outside of retirement accounts and home equity are not asked to pay full freight. Period. That means there must be a ton of home equity - like $1 million+ — non-retirement savings, 529 plans, etc. Why don’t you share the whole story? Or, maybe your sister is withholding important facts from you. Tell her you ran the NPC calculator and their story doesn’t add up.

They weren’t asked to pay full freight. They got modest aid. Not enough. It’s plausible that a family in a HCOL area bought a modest, 400k cape cod in 2000 and it’s now worth a million.

If for Cornell, you put in the net price calculator 750k in home equity, 160k across all three kids’ 529s (which is akin to having invested less than $250 per month for 18 years) with no other investments, and 225k in household income, you’ll get almost exactly the EFC that OP described.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

Agree there are large missing assets to this story. Or. OP is a troll.

I stated explicitly in my original post that my sister has a good deal of home equity but it's not about to sell her long time home to send her child to college. I think we can all agree that the middle class gets screwed in this process. Several other teachers have commented here in similar situations. You make too much for meaningful aid but not nearly enough that you can afford such a huge sticker price. And people should not have to sell their houses to send their kids to college. Which my sister is not going to do. My niece will probably end up at her state flagship and be fine. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't stink to have to tell your child that you cannot afford their dream college after they work their butt off for years and years. Can't we all agree on that?

OP, what posters are reacting negatively to is not that your sister won’t sell her house, but that there must be more to the story. I and other families have been through this process with selective, needs blind schools, and a family making $200k with little or no assets outside of retirement accounts and home equity are not asked to pay full freight. Period. That means there must be a ton of home equity - like $1 million+ — non-retirement savings, 529 plans, etc. Why don’t you share the whole story? Or, maybe your sister is withholding important facts from you. Tell her you ran the NPC calculator and their story doesn’t add up.

That sounds like a great family-bonding activity. As others have stated, this is not an unusual scenario if you have some savings -- but not nearly enough to cover 70k/year (which is not full freight).

[Anonymous]

I just ran the cost estimator for Cornell. With teachers' pension plans worth 700k and 300k in home equity on a 201,000 HHI, no financial aid available.