The Gilded Age

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are they killing off George Russell? I was shocked. Then Larry takes over. They finally gave Oscar some humanity (though I can’t stand looking at him, so unattractive).

No way will they kill him off.

I could see where Carrie Coon's character takes over the business and becomes a ruthless businesswoman. She can use her big ambition in this way. Even if she only does it temporarily while he's convalescing, this seems like a plot that's coming for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are they killing off George Russell? I was shocked. Then Larry takes over. They finally gave Oscar some humanity (though I can’t stand looking at him, so unattractive).

No way will they kill him off.

I could see where Carrie Coon's character takes over the business and becomes a ruthless businesswoman. She can use her big ambition in this way. Even if she only does it temporarily while he's convalescing, this seems like a plot that's coming for her.

No it doesn’t.

TGA often draws on people and events that really did happen. Last year it was Maude Beaton who was created with Cassie Chadwick’s real life story in mind. As for George, the real life robber baron Henry Clay Frick was shot and stabbed at his office and back at work in a week. It’s likely drawn from that.

[Anonymous]

Really great article here about the costumes on the show and how the costume designers used art and historical clothing collections from museums to recreate the fashions of the day. I love all the side-by-sides of costumes based on paintings by Sargent and other painters, and I liked how the costume designer talks about how using portraits of the era helped them to edit and elevate historical fashion in a way that would meet viewers expectations. Anyway, enjoy!

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/gilded-age-costumes-art-2672040

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are they killing off George Russell? I was shocked. Then Larry takes over. They finally gave Oscar some humanity (though I can’t stand looking at him, so unattractive).

No way will they kill him off.

I could see where Carrie Coon's character takes over the business and becomes a ruthless businesswoman. She can use her big ambition in this way. Even if she only does it temporarily while he's convalescing, this seems like a plot that's coming for her.

No it doesn’t.

TGA often draws on people and events that really did happen. Last year it was Maude Beaton who was created with Cassie Chadwick’s real life story in mind. As for George, the real life robber baron Henry Clay Frick was shot and stabbed at his office and back at work in a week. It’s likely drawn from that.

Interesting post, thank you.

[Anonymous]

DOROTHY SCOTT!!!!

[Anonymous]

FINALE SPOILERS INCOMING

I really liked the finale. I especially liked that they upended expectation by having Mr. Russell remain estranged from Bertha at the end of the episode, even though the rest of the episode you think the assassination attempt is what will bring them back together. I also thought it was realistic -- George respects how cutthroat and striving Bertha is, because he's like that too, but he HAS to be in charge of every situation because that's just how he is as a person and he can't forgive her for essentially overriding him regarding Gladys. I think it's completely in keeping with his character, he never gives an inch in anything and he obviously really hated feeling like the situation with Gladys was totally out of his hands. I also liked seeing Bertha misread that situation -- this is like her one weakness and that's good, it gives Coon something to do other than swan around acting imperious, and I look forward to what they do with this next season.

Happy for Peggy and Marion and also happy/hopeful to be freed of the "unlucky in love" plot lines for both. It was getting very old. It's much more interesting to maybe see them navigating marriage, both to families with some messy dynamics they will have to navigate.

LOVE everything with Jack, his entire storyline this season was the most subtly done in terms of allowing the actors to actually act the subtext without constantly shoving it down our throats. I really enjoyed both the scene of him visiting his old friends and feeling slightly awkward about it, as well as Bridget visiting him and watching their little romance unfolding. It's sweet and feels novel and interesting. Hope to see more of this.

Also liked what they did with Agnes and Ada, with the historical society and Agnes finally giving Ada her due (and a pleasure to see Ada acting like something other than a bumbling fool, this gets so old especially the way Nixon plays it, she's much better as a competent person who no one has previously listened to but who now has a voice).

Finally, surprisingly happy to see where the Oscar and Mrs. Winterton collaboration is headed. I thought Oscar had given up on finding a beard but she's honestly the ideal candidate -- rich, the right age, and morally compromised enough to be totally fine with the arrangement (to be clear, I don't think it's immortal that Oscar is gay, just saying the vast majority of society women of the time would be afraid to do this either because they would be horrified by his homosexuality or because they'd fear society approbation if other people found out). I normally find both these characters annoying but together they might be a fun alliance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FINALE SPOILERS INCOMING

I really liked the finale. I especially liked that they upended expectation by having Mr. Russell remain estranged from Bertha at the end of the episode, even though the rest of the episode you think the assassination attempt is what will bring them back together. I also thought it was realistic -- George respects how cutthroat and striving Bertha is, because he's like that too, but he HAS to be in charge of every situation because that's just how he is as a person and he can't forgive her for essentially overriding him regarding Gladys. I think it's completely in keeping with his character, he never gives an inch in anything and he obviously really hated feeling like the situation with Gladys was totally out of his hands. I also liked seeing Bertha misread that situation -- this is like her one weakness and that's good, it gives Coon something to do other than swan around acting imperious, and I look forward to what they do with this next season.

Happy for Peggy and Marion and also happy/hopeful to be freed of the "unlucky in love" plot lines for both. It was getting very old. It's much more interesting to maybe see them navigating marriage, both to families with some messy dynamics they will have to navigate.

LOVE everything with Jack, his entire storyline this season was the most subtly done in terms of allowing the actors to actually act the subtext without constantly shoving it down our throats. I really enjoyed both the scene of him visiting his old friends and feeling slightly awkward about it, as well as Bridget visiting him and watching their little romance unfolding. It's sweet and feels novel and interesting. Hope to see more of this.

Also liked what they did with Agnes and Ada, with the historical society and Agnes finally giving Ada her due (and a pleasure to see Ada acting like something other than a bumbling fool, this gets so old especially the way Nixon plays it, she's much better as a competent person who no one has previously listened to but who now has a voice).

Finally, surprisingly happy to see where the Oscar and Mrs. Winterton collaboration is headed. I thought Oscar had given up on finding a beard but she's honestly the ideal candidate -- rich, the right age, and morally compromised enough to be totally fine with the arrangement (to be clear, I don't think it's immortal that Oscar is gay, just saying the vast majority of society women of the time would be afraid to do this either because they would be horrified by his homosexuality or because they'd fear society approbation if other people found out). I normally find both these characters annoying but together they might be a fun alliance.

Great post, and I agree with much of it.

However, I was coming here to post basically the opposite impression you had about George and Bertha! I felt like the only *realistic* explanation for his rewriting history (his cowardice) and also now being turned off by her cutthroat ambition would be that he's having an affair. That's certainly been many people's experience over on the Relationship forum -- that their cheating spouse turned nasty and nitpicky while conducting the affair, as a way to reconcile their own guilty conscience.

But, to be clear, I don't actually think that's what the storyline will be, so I was left rolling my eyes at the writing because it felt very out of George's character to me. That said, you've given me a new take on it, so I'll have to think about that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FINALE SPOILERS INCOMING

I really liked the finale. I especially liked that they upended expectation by having Mr. Russell remain estranged from Bertha at the end of the episode, even though the rest of the episode you think the assassination attempt is what will bring them back together. I also thought it was realistic -- George respects how cutthroat and striving Bertha is, because he's like that too, but he HAS to be in charge of every situation because that's just how he is as a person and he can't forgive her for essentially overriding him regarding Gladys. I think it's completely in keeping with his character, he never gives an inch in anything and he obviously really hated feeling like the situation with Gladys was totally out of his hands. I also liked seeing Bertha misread that situation -- this is like her one weakness and that's good, it gives Coon something to do other than swan around acting imperious, and I look forward to what they do with this next season.

Happy for Peggy and Marion and also happy/hopeful to be freed of the "unlucky in love" plot lines for both. It was getting very old. It's much more interesting to maybe see them navigating marriage, both to families with some messy dynamics they will have to navigate.

LOVE everything with Jack, his entire storyline this season was the most subtly done in terms of allowing the actors to actually act the subtext without constantly shoving it down our throats. I really enjoyed both the scene of him visiting his old friends and feeling slightly awkward about it, as well as Bridget visiting him and watching their little romance unfolding. It's sweet and feels novel and interesting. Hope to see more of this.

Also liked what they did with Agnes and Ada, with the historical society and Agnes finally giving Ada her due (and a pleasure to see Ada acting like something other than a bumbling fool, this gets so old especially the way Nixon plays it, she's much better as a competent person who no one has previously listened to but who now has a voice).

Finally, surprisingly happy to see where the Oscar and Mrs. Winterton collaboration is headed. I thought Oscar had given up on finding a beard but she's honestly the ideal candidate -- rich, the right age, and morally compromised enough to be totally fine with the arrangement (to be clear, I don't think it's immortal that Oscar is gay, just saying the vast majority of society women of the time would be afraid to do this either because they would be horrified by his homosexuality or because they'd fear society approbation if other people found out). I normally find both these characters annoying but together they might be a fun alliance.

Great post, and I agree with much of it.

However, I was coming here to post basically the opposite impression you had about George and Bertha! I felt like the only *realistic* explanation for his rewriting history (his cowardice) and also now being turned off by her cutthroat ambition would be that he's having an affair. That's certainly been many people's experience over on the Relationship forum -- that their cheating spouse turned nasty and nitpicky while conducting the affair, as a way to reconcile their own guilty conscience.

But, to be clear, I don't actually think that's what the storyline will be, so I was left rolling my eyes at the writing because it felt very out of George's character to me. That said, you've given me a new take on it, so I'll have to think about that!

Regarding George and Bertha, I think the issue is that he's always seemed kind of doting/admiring of Bertha's ambition, and that seems to have reversed. But I think it's because he's previously been able to see it as him allowing or facilitating Bertha's ambition with his own success. She could only do stuff like build the opera house or throw these extravagant parties to win people over because of his money and the access it can buy. So he could look at those actions with pride.

The Gladys situation was different, because he didn't really endorse it and Bertha went ahead with it anyway. So he can't take pride in it because she basically overrode him. The timing of it was also very problematic because it involved paying this massive dowry to the Duke (and paying for this huge wedding) just as George was experiencing major cash flow issues and his business and fortune were at risk. He didn't want to tell Bertha "I am worried about affording this, please don't push forward" so instead he expressed concern about whether it was good for Gladys (which I think was a concern but was also convenient), but Berth wouldn't back down. I think that *feeling* was very unsettling for George, being unsure he could actually provide the thing Bertha was insisting on, and perhaps fearing that if his business issues didn't get worked out, he could wind up exposed on multiple levels, not just losing a ton of money but also in debt to this Duke they sold Gladys to. I think George refuses to forgive Bertha for making him feel vulnerable, even if it all worked out later thanks to Larry's success with the mines.

[Anonymous]

I had whiplash from the final scene where George tells Bertha he’s not moving back home and isn’t sure she is what he wants. He certainly seemed quite pleased with Bertha during his recuperation (weirdly fast, btw) and at the ball. I thought that was a very poorly written scene and seemed to have been tacked on for dramatic effect.

Happy to see Gladys and the Duke falling in love after all. Glad he didn’t turn out to be an overbearing prig.

Happy for Peggy and William too, but still can’t stand the way he talks or his dreadful mother. Now that would be the MIL from hell.

Where was the ball for the black guests held? Did I miss whose home / location it was?

I wonder if Mrs. Winterton knows Oscar is gay or not. Seems like a good solution for both of them. I find her as unattractive as Oscar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are they killing off George Russell? I was shocked. Then Larry takes over. They finally gave Oscar some humanity (though I can’t stand looking at him, so unattractive).

No way will they kill him off.

I could see where Carrie Coon's character takes over the business and becomes a ruthless businesswoman. She can use her big ambition in this way. Even if she only does it temporarily while he's convalescing, this seems like a plot that's coming for her.

No it doesn’t.

TGA often draws on people and events that really did happen. Last year it was Maude Beaton who was created with Cassie Chadwick’s real life story in mind. As for George, the real life robber baron Henry Clay Frick was shot and stabbed at his office and back at work in a week. It’s likely drawn from that.

And Consuelo Vanderbilt had a miserable marriage, which is not what they seem to be doing for Gladys

Just stop

[Anonymous]

Yeah. One second it's, "Your the mother of a Duchess!" The next it's I can't forgive myself for letting Glady down.

Gladys is happy now and probably glad of her mom's scheming. I don't even remember a scene with George and Gladys this episode.

Bertha is also being 'punished' for her ways the way Larry is treating her- even though the Marian thing was not her fault.

The continued separation seems reaching. You don't see your wife so upset that you might die and then leaver her (unless you're cheating- agree with PP on that. hope they never go there with Bertha and George, that would break my heart.)

[Anonymous]

I think some of George's personality change this episode is due to the laudanum he's taking for the pain. He's likely becoming an addict, which explains the abrupt ending.

No way would normal George, who's been tormented all season about Gladys' marriage, leave before spending some time with her. I also think the ending would have been different if the series was not renewed - it would have ended with both balls. That last part set up the next season.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think some of George's personality change this episode is due to the laudanum he's taking for the pain. He's likely becoming an addict, which explains the abrupt ending.

No way would normal George, who's been tormented all season about Gladys' marriage, leave before spending some time with her. I also think the ending would have been different if the series was not renewed - it would have ended with both balls. That last part set up the next season.

I think the idea of George becoming addicted is a real reach. Just seems like they tacked on the last scene so they could end it on a cliffhanger. Ridiculous, since George tells Bertha at the ball that he can see how happy Gladys is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FINALE SPOILERS INCOMING

I really liked the finale. I especially liked that they upended expectation by having Mr. Russell remain estranged from Bertha at the end of the episode, even though the rest of the episode you think the assassination attempt is what will bring them back together. I also thought it was realistic -- George respects how cutthroat and striving Bertha is, because he's like that too, but he HAS to be in charge of every situation because that's just how he is as a person and he can't forgive her for essentially overriding him regarding Gladys. I think it's completely in keeping with his character, he never gives an inch in anything and he obviously really hated feeling like the situation with Gladys was totally out of his hands. I also liked seeing Bertha misread that situation -- this is like her one weakness and that's good, it gives Coon something to do other than swan around acting imperious, and I look forward to what they do with this next season.

Happy for Peggy and Marion and also happy/hopeful to be freed of the "unlucky in love" plot lines for both. It was getting very old. It's much more interesting to maybe see them navigating marriage, both to families with some messy dynamics they will have to navigate.

LOVE everything with Jack, his entire storyline this season was the most subtly done in terms of allowing the actors to actually act the subtext without constantly shoving it down our throats. I really enjoyed both the scene of him visiting his old friends and feeling slightly awkward about it, as well as Bridget visiting him and watching their little romance unfolding. It's sweet and feels novel and interesting. Hope to see more of this.

Also liked what they did with Agnes and Ada, with the historical society and Agnes finally giving Ada her due (and a pleasure to see Ada acting like something other than a bumbling fool, this gets so old especially the way Nixon plays it, she's much better as a competent person who no one has previously listened to but who now has a voice).

Finally, surprisingly happy to see where the Oscar and Mrs. Winterton collaboration is headed. I thought Oscar had given up on finding a beard but she's honestly the ideal candidate -- rich, the right age, and morally compromised enough to be totally fine with the arrangement (to be clear, I don't think it's immortal that Oscar is gay, just saying the vast majority of society women of the time would be afraid to do this either because they would be horrified by his homosexuality or because they'd fear society approbation if other people found out). I normally find both these characters annoying but together they might be a fun alliance.

Great post, and I agree with much of it.

However, I was coming here to post basically the opposite impression you had about George and Bertha! I felt like the only *realistic* explanation for his rewriting history (his cowardice) and also now being turned off by her cutthroat ambition would be that he's having an affair. That's certainly been many people's experience over on the Relationship forum -- that their cheating spouse turned nasty and nitpicky while conducting the affair, as a way to reconcile their own guilty conscience.

But, to be clear, I don't actually think that's what the storyline will be, so I was left rolling my eyes at the writing because it felt very out of George's character to me. That said, you've given me a new take on it, so I'll have to think about that!

Regarding George and Bertha, I think the issue is that he's always seemed kind of doting/admiring of Bertha's ambition, and that seems to have reversed. But I think it's because he's previously been able to see it as him allowing or facilitating Bertha's ambition with his own success. She could only do stuff like build the opera house or throw these extravagant parties to win people over because of his money and the access it can buy. So he could look at those actions with pride.

The Gladys situation was different, because he didn't really endorse it and Bertha went ahead with it anyway. So he can't take pride in it because she basically overrode him. The timing of it was also very problematic because it involved paying this massive dowry to the Duke (and paying for this huge wedding) just as George was experiencing major cash flow issues and his business and fortune were at risk. He didn't want to tell Bertha "I am worried about affording this, please don't push forward" so instead he expressed concern about whether it was good for Gladys (which I think was a concern but was also convenient), but Berth wouldn't back down. I think that *feeling* was very unsettling for George, being unsure he could actually provide the thing Bertha was insisting on, and perhaps fearing that if his business issues didn't get worked out, he could wind up exposed on multiple levels, not just losing a ton of money but also in debt to this Duke they sold Gladys to. I think George refuses to forgive Bertha for making him feel vulnerable, even if it all worked out later thanks to Larry's success with the mines.

+1 Million. This is the thing that makes it make sense for the characters, to me. He even tried to drive such a bargain that the Duke would walk away and seek another heiress, because that would make it so that he could 1) fulfill his promise to Gladys, but 2) not be seen as intentionally sabotaging Bertha. And that machination didn't work out for him, which was one in a series of "defeats" at the negotiating table. His anger toward Bertha is tied up with his feeling of not having control over the railroad situation or the Morenci mines, and ultimately teetering on the brink of financial ruin at the hands of his former man of business. It's not really anything to do with Bertha's ruthlessness, though that's what he's wrapping it up in to make it make sense. He can't tell her "you unmanned me by putting in in a position to spend money I didn't have" so it's all about Gladys being sad for 3 weeks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FINALE SPOILERS INCOMING

I really liked the finale. I especially liked that they upended expectation by having Mr. Russell remain estranged from Bertha at the end of the episode, even though the rest of the episode you think the assassination attempt is what will bring them back together. I also thought it was realistic -- George respects how cutthroat and striving Bertha is, because he's like that too, but he HAS to be in charge of every situation because that's just how he is as a person and he can't forgive her for essentially overriding him regarding Gladys. I think it's completely in keeping with his character, he never gives an inch in anything and he obviously really hated feeling like the situation with Gladys was totally out of his hands. I also liked seeing Bertha misread that situation -- this is like her one weakness and that's good, it gives Coon something to do other than swan around acting imperious, and I look forward to what they do with this next season.

Happy for Peggy and Marion and also happy/hopeful to be freed of the "unlucky in love" plot lines for both. It was getting very old. It's much more interesting to maybe see them navigating marriage, both to families with some messy dynamics they will have to navigate.

LOVE everything with Jack, his entire storyline this season was the most subtly done in terms of allowing the actors to actually act the subtext without constantly shoving it down our throats. I really enjoyed both the scene of him visiting his old friends and feeling slightly awkward about it, as well as Bridget visiting him and watching their little romance unfolding. It's sweet and feels novel and interesting. Hope to see more of this.

Also liked what they did with Agnes and Ada, with the historical society and Agnes finally giving Ada her due (and a pleasure to see Ada acting like something other than a bumbling fool, this gets so old especially the way Nixon plays it, she's much better as a competent person who no one has previously listened to but who now has a voice).

Finally, surprisingly happy to see where the Oscar and Mrs. Winterton collaboration is headed. I thought Oscar had given up on finding a beard but she's honestly the ideal candidate -- rich, the right age, and morally compromised enough to be totally fine with the arrangement (to be clear, I don't think it's immortal that Oscar is gay, just saying the vast majority of society women of the time would be afraid to do this either because they would be horrified by his homosexuality or because they'd fear society approbation if other people found out). I normally find both these characters annoying but together they might be a fun alliance.

Agree with all except the final acene seemed abrupt after all the prior scenes after he was shot showing them getting along. They set up several stories for the next season and this was one of them and it will be interesting.

The only other quibble I had was the ridiculous dancing at both balls. Only professional dancers dance that well! I can't even imagine repressed 19th century people danced like that. I get that it's a fantasy but it was too much for me.