Why the push for accelerated math?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid will take AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Seminar, and AP research. They also will have AP Government, AP European history, and AP USH. I’m not seeing a problem with doing multivariable also.

PP who wants to set up math tracks seems to think that kids who are perfectly capable of doing matrix multiplication (and mind you, matrix math underlies both modern communications and large language models aka AI) in high school should be stuck doing algebra based physics extensions because...reasons. PP has yet to answer the question "why limit acceleration."

Because the increasing levels of acceleration are creating a toxic environment that doesn't provide a significant benefit for the vast majority of kids.

It's a race to nowhere. There is very little value in accelerating beyond a year (or two on a limited basis).

How does placing kids in classes that meet their academic needs create a toxic environment? Are there parents who seem to think that if their kid isn't in the top group that their kid is being slighted? Sure, but I suspect those parents exist regardless of what the tracking looks like at school. Are there kids who see it as failing because they are not in the top group? Sure, but again, I think that has always existed.

My kid has been bored in math since he started ES. Algebra 1 in 7th grade has not been boring but has not been challenging either. I think the additional work in class and the increased pace made the class more interesting, but the class has not pushed him. I doubt Geometry is going to challenge him next year. I am not sure when math in school is going to push him. Right now, he finds himself challenged in his math competition program and he keeps asking to do that, so we will keep that going.

DC has been in exact same situation as yours, so counselor approved them for summer Geometry, and now enrolled in 8th grade Algebra 2, also approved by counselor. It would have been ideal if DC was approved for Algebra 1 in 6th, and that would have avoided the need for summer geometry. But, oh well!

DS wants to attend camps with his friends and hang at the pool. He did not want to take geometry in the summer and we are fine with that.

[Anonymous]

AAP 6th grade math teacher here. About 1/2 my class will be taking Algebra 1 next year. I knew in October who these kids would most likely be and offered Algebra 1 extensions. The other 1/2 of my class are good students and decent in math but there are major differences. My kids who tested into Algebra for next year are retaining information from previous years and units. The other half forget concepts from 4th, 5th , 6th grade math and need constant spiraling and review. The higher kids take advantage of enrichment opportunities and want to do math for fun. With all that being said, I consistently have 100 percent pass rate on the SOL.



I think the way things are set up now is appropriate. Algebra in 7th for some. Most in 8th. A small amount in 6th. The need is not there to pilot at ES. I against the push for all to take Algebra in 8th too. Every kid in FCPS is not going into college and will need higher level math. Even going into college, it depends on what you major in. I loved math and was strong in it, but my undergrad degree was humanities based and my minor was business. I took one Gen Ed math course and two accounting courses and that was it in college.

In our Gen Ed 6th grade classes, we gave kids who cannot compute. Even in my advanced math class, I have kids who struggle with operations. I also feel with open honors classes, parents aren’t always honest with their kids abilities. We have kids who fail the SOLS sign up for honors classes.

I am all for offering kids challenges, but there should still be requirements.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid will take AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Seminar, and AP research. They also will have AP Government, AP European history, and AP USH. I’m not seeing a problem with doing multivariable also.

PP who wants to set up math tracks seems to think that kids who are perfectly capable of doing matrix multiplication (and mind you, matrix math underlies both modern communications and large language models aka AI) in high school should be stuck doing algebra based physics extensions because...reasons. PP has yet to answer the question "why limit acceleration."

Because the increasing levels of acceleration are creating a toxic environment that doesn't provide a significant benefit for the vast majority of kids.

It's a race to nowhere. There is very little value in accelerating beyond a year (or two on a limited basis).

I think some people have a hard time accepting that there are always going to be smarter kids and more nurturing families. And it is a social issue for them, not an educational one.

Acceleration isn’t meant to benefit the vast majority of kids. Acceleration is meant to benefit those who need it and currently it’s about 10-15% of kids.

Algebra in 7th is such a low bar too.

Education isnt a race to nowhere; it’s an endless journey, but some just walk faster.

Some acceleration is great. Having some calculus in HS is helpful.

10-15% is too large of a cohort for exceptionally gifted. It will include many bright kids who would have been just fine with algebra in 8th.

Limit the hyper acceleration to the truly gifted kids. There should be a very high bar for entry.

The unnecessary over-acceleration is the race to nowhere.

Kids don’t need to be exceptionally gifted to handle algebra in 7th. The exceptionally gifted kids are taking algebra in 4th or even earlier.

Overaccelerating kids can be bad. But holding kids back and turning math into a tedious slog is also bad. The right track for a kid depends on the kid’s natural aptitude, interest, and personality. That’s best decided by the kids, parents, and teachers, rather than some internet rando who just doesn’t like math acceleration.

"To handle algebra." There is the mindset that we should push as fast as possible, even without any real benefit, just to see what they can "handle". Race to nowhere.

For truly gifted kids (not 10-15%), offering extra acceleration makes sense. Have a high bar of entry and provide this for the kids who actually need it.

For the rest of the "gifted" kids, one year of calculus in HS will serve them just fine.

OP listed several potential benefits right in the initial post.

As I've said multiple times, one year of calculus in HS would be good to prepare kids for college.

Looks good for college applications? That is the root of the arms race that is driving unnecessary acceleration.

There it is, the root of your obstinate opinion. You are concerned your child won't be able to compete on the college application because they aren't as advanced in math. I'm sure you'll happily point out other ways they were allowed to stand out though. Hypocrite.
So many kids easily ace Algebra in 7th grade. It is not two years advanced. And even if it were, they are getting A's and not struggling. There is no reason not to allow them to take those classes. It is not a "road to nowhere." That means nothing. Come up with actual arguments why it's bad or stop reposting the same dumb opinion.

My kids are fine. But I’ve seen many of their peers get pushed into higher math too soon and end up miserable.

There is no benefit for most kids to take more than one year of calculus in HS.

Over acceleration is just one aspect to the race to nowhere.

It’s toxic.

That some parents are toxic and push their kids beyond their level is not a reason to limit acceleration for everyone else. This still isn't an issue with an acceleration, just with these parents.

Which is why I think there should be a very high bar for 2+ years acceleration.

But aside from this year, there already has been a very high bar. For kids to take Algebra before 6th, they need sky high scores, teacher recommendation, and then a lot of extra testing. For 6th grade Algebra, they need a 145+ CogAT Q score, a very high score on the 4th grade math SOL, and teacher approval just to be tested again by Gatehouse for the skip. They then still need the IAAT and SOL scores the next year. 7th grade algebra has the IAAT and SOL requirements. The bar seems adequately high.

Not in my experience. We know several kids who never should have taken algebra in 7th grade. It ruined math for them. Even if they are ready for the content, they may not have the EF skills to manage a HS level class. It just seems unnecessary for most bright kids, even if they can "handle" it. Keep the bar high for 6th/7th algebra.

That’s a failure on the part of the parents and not at all an indication that the bar is too low. Obviously, if your kid has lower EF skills or has some other reason why 7th grade Algebra is a bad fit, then just opt for M7H. No one is forcing any kids to take Algebra in 7th. You seem to be suggesting that kids who are ready and eager for Algebra should be held back because some parents are incapable of making good decisions.

No, the kids tested in; the parents weren’t pushing for it. They didn’t realize the kids were in over their head until it was too late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid will take AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Seminar, and AP research. They also will have AP Government, AP European history, and AP USH. I’m not seeing a problem with doing multivariable also.

PP who wants to set up math tracks seems to think that kids who are perfectly capable of doing matrix multiplication (and mind you, matrix math underlies both modern communications and large language models aka AI) in high school should be stuck doing algebra based physics extensions because...reasons. PP has yet to answer the question "why limit acceleration."

Because the increasing levels of acceleration are creating a toxic environment that doesn't provide a significant benefit for the vast majority of kids.

It's a race to nowhere. There is very little value in accelerating beyond a year (or two on a limited basis).

I think some people have a hard time accepting that there are always going to be smarter kids and more nurturing families. And it is a social issue for them, not an educational one.

Acceleration isn’t meant to benefit the vast majority of kids. Acceleration is meant to benefit those who need it and currently it’s about 10-15% of kids.

Algebra in 7th is such a low bar too.

Education isnt a race to nowhere; it’s an endless journey, but some just walk faster.

Some acceleration is great. Having some calculus in HS is helpful.

10-15% is too large of a cohort for exceptionally gifted. It will include many bright kids who would have been just fine with algebra in 8th.

Limit the hyper acceleration to the truly gifted kids. There should be a very high bar for entry.

The unnecessary over-acceleration is the race to nowhere.

Kids don’t need to be exceptionally gifted to handle algebra in 7th. The exceptionally gifted kids are taking algebra in 4th or even earlier.

Overaccelerating kids can be bad. But holding kids back and turning math into a tedious slog is also bad. The right track for a kid depends on the kid’s natural aptitude, interest, and personality. That’s best decided by the kids, parents, and teachers, rather than some internet rando who just doesn’t like math acceleration.

"To handle algebra." There is the mindset that we should push as fast as possible, even without any real benefit, just to see what they can "handle". Race to nowhere.

For truly gifted kids (not 10-15%), offering extra acceleration makes sense. Have a high bar of entry and provide this for the kids who actually need it.

For the rest of the "gifted" kids, one year of calculus in HS will serve them just fine.

OP listed several potential benefits right in the initial post.

As I've said multiple times, one year of calculus in HS would be good to prepare kids for college.

Looks good for college applications? That is the root of the arms race that is driving unnecessary acceleration.

There it is, the root of your obstinate opinion. You are concerned your child won't be able to compete on the college application because they aren't as advanced in math. I'm sure you'll happily point out other ways they were allowed to stand out though. Hypocrite.
So many kids easily ace Algebra in 7th grade. It is not two years advanced. And even if it were, they are getting A's and not struggling. There is no reason not to allow them to take those classes. It is not a "road to nowhere." That means nothing. Come up with actual arguments why it's bad or stop reposting the same dumb opinion.

My kids are fine. But I’ve seen many of their peers get pushed into higher math too soon and end up miserable.

There is no benefit for most kids to take more than one year of calculus in HS.

Over acceleration is just one aspect to the race to nowhere.

It’s toxic.

That some parents are toxic and push their kids beyond their level is not a reason to limit acceleration for everyone else. This still isn't an issue with an acceleration, just with these parents.

Which is why I think there should be a very high bar for 2+ years acceleration.

But aside from this year, there already has been a very high bar. For kids to take Algebra before 6th, they need sky high scores, teacher recommendation, and then a lot of extra testing. For 6th grade Algebra, they need a 145+ CogAT Q score, a very high score on the 4th grade math SOL, and teacher approval just to be tested again by Gatehouse for the skip. They then still need the IAAT and SOL scores the next year. 7th grade algebra has the IAAT and SOL requirements. The bar seems adequately high.

Not in my experience. We know several kids who never should have taken algebra in 7th grade. It ruined math for them. Even if they are ready for the content, they may not have the EF skills to manage a HS level class. It just seems unnecessary for most bright kids, even if they can "handle" it. Keep the bar high for 6th/7th algebra.

This is absolutely ridiculous. There are no special EF skills for Algebra, which is the same course structure as 7H but the next steps of content. They aren't doing multi-week projects and 10page essays.

Staying on top of of the faster workload. Turning in assignments, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid will take AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Seminar, and AP research. They also will have AP Government, AP European history, and AP USH. I’m not seeing a problem with doing multivariable also.

PP who wants to set up math tracks seems to think that kids who are perfectly capable of doing matrix multiplication (and mind you, matrix math underlies both modern communications and large language models aka AI) in high school should be stuck doing algebra based physics extensions because...reasons. PP has yet to answer the question "why limit acceleration."

Because the increasing levels of acceleration are creating a toxic environment that doesn't provide a significant benefit for the vast majority of kids.

It's a race to nowhere. There is very little value in accelerating beyond a year (or two on a limited basis).

I think some people have a hard time accepting that there are always going to be smarter kids and more nurturing families. And it is a social issue for them, not an educational one.

Acceleration isn’t meant to benefit the vast majority of kids. Acceleration is meant to benefit those who need it and currently it’s about 10-15% of kids.

Algebra in 7th is such a low bar too.

Education isnt a race to nowhere; it’s an endless journey, but some just walk faster.

Some acceleration is great. Having some calculus in HS is helpful.

10-15% is too large of a cohort for exceptionally gifted. It will include many bright kids who would have been just fine with algebra in 8th.

Limit the hyper acceleration to the truly gifted kids. There should be a very high bar for entry.

The unnecessary over-acceleration is the race to nowhere.

Kids don’t need to be exceptionally gifted to handle algebra in 7th. The exceptionally gifted kids are taking algebra in 4th or even earlier.

Overaccelerating kids can be bad. But holding kids back and turning math into a tedious slog is also bad. The right track for a kid depends on the kid’s natural aptitude, interest, and personality. That’s best decided by the kids, parents, and teachers, rather than some internet rando who just doesn’t like math acceleration.

"To handle algebra." There is the mindset that we should push as fast as possible, even without any real benefit, just to see what they can "handle". Race to nowhere.

For truly gifted kids (not 10-15%), offering extra acceleration makes sense. Have a high bar of entry and provide this for the kids who actually need it.

For the rest of the "gifted" kids, one year of calculus in HS will serve them just fine.

OP listed several potential benefits right in the initial post.

As I've said multiple times, one year of calculus in HS would be good to prepare kids for college.

Looks good for college applications? That is the root of the arms race that is driving unnecessary acceleration.

There it is, the root of your obstinate opinion. You are concerned your child won't be able to compete on the college application because they aren't as advanced in math. I'm sure you'll happily point out other ways they were allowed to stand out though. Hypocrite.
So many kids easily ace Algebra in 7th grade. It is not two years advanced. And even if it were, they are getting A's and not struggling. There is no reason not to allow them to take those classes. It is not a "road to nowhere." That means nothing. Come up with actual arguments why it's bad or stop reposting the same dumb opinion.

My kids are fine. But I’ve seen many of their peers get pushed into higher math too soon and end up miserable.

There is no benefit for most kids to take more than one year of calculus in HS.

Over acceleration is just one aspect to the race to nowhere.

It’s toxic.

That some parents are toxic and push their kids beyond their level is not a reason to limit acceleration for everyone else. This still isn't an issue with an acceleration, just with these parents.

Which is why I think there should be a very high bar for 2+ years acceleration.

But aside from this year, there already has been a very high bar. For kids to take Algebra before 6th, they need sky high scores, teacher recommendation, and then a lot of extra testing. For 6th grade Algebra, they need a 145+ CogAT Q score, a very high score on the 4th grade math SOL, and teacher approval just to be tested again by Gatehouse for the skip. They then still need the IAAT and SOL scores the next year. 7th grade algebra has the IAAT and SOL requirements. The bar seems adequately high.

Not in my experience. We know several kids who never should have taken algebra in 7th grade. It ruined math for them. Even if they are ready for the content, they may not have the EF skills to manage a HS level class. It just seems unnecessary for most bright kids, even if they can "handle" it. Keep the bar high for 6th/7th algebra.

This is absolutely ridiculous. There are no special EF skills for Algebra, which is the same course structure as 7H but the next steps of content. They aren't doing multi-week projects and 10page essays.

Staying on top of of the faster workload. Turning in assignments, etc.

You mean, taking classes in middle school? lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AAP 6th grade math teacher here. About 1/2 my class will be taking Algebra 1 next year. I knew in October who these kids would most likely be and offered Algebra 1 extensions. The other 1/2 of my class are good students and decent in math but there are major differences. My kids who tested into Algebra for next year are retaining information from previous years and units. The other half forget concepts from 4th, 5th , 6th grade math and need constant spiraling and review. The higher kids take advantage of enrichment opportunities and want to do math for fun. With all that being said, I consistently have 100 percent pass rate on the SOL.



I think the way things are set up now is appropriate. Algebra in 7th for some. Most in 8th. A small amount in 6th. The need is not there to pilot at ES. I against the push for all to take Algebra in 8th too. Every kid in FCPS is not going into college and will need higher level math. Even going into college, it depends on what you major in. I loved math and was strong in it, but my undergrad degree was humanities based and my minor was business. I took one Gen Ed math course and two accounting courses and that was it in college.

In our Gen Ed 6th grade classes, we gave kids who cannot compute. Even in my advanced math class, I have kids who struggle with operations. I also feel with open honors classes, parents aren’t always honest with their kids abilities. We have kids who fail the SOLS sign up for honors classes.

I am all for offering kids challenges, but there should still be requirements.

My Gen Ed/ level 3 kid signed up for middle school honors. We were told if kids didn't pass sol they would be dropped from honors. I expect the school will keep their word on the requirements and it should be an engaging class ( as opposed to sitting around waiting for the kids below grade level to catch up).
There are kids at all levels who are having trouble accessing the level of engagement they need...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh it gets worse. 27 schools are piloting algebra 1 in 6th grade next year. Multiple middle schools are doing honors math for all (no more math 7, math 7 honors is the lowest option in 7th grade).

If everyone is getting Honors math, isn't it just regular math?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and I'm not sure if I'm just caught up in the Northern Virginia mindset.

Our child scored well on both the Iowa and the SOL and their teacher recommends they take out for one next year in seventh grade. I'm sitting here wondering why?

I completely understand why it's beneficial for some maybe even the majority of kids to take calculus in their senior year. But how many kids are really going to benefit from taking 2 years of calculus?

So I guess my question is what's the point? Aside for taking an extra year of college math in high school, why do it?

So far I come up with it. Might look better on college applications, make college classes either easier or something you can get credit for while in HS.

I have this underlying fear that they are going to push anyone who scores well into algebra 1, so there are less kids in 7th grade honors. That allows for smaller classes and helps with the goal of Algebra for all by grade 8

Know that you don't have to accelerate your kid. About half the kids in my sons Advanced Math class choose Math 7H instead of Algebra 1 H in 7th grade. They had the choice and decided that they did not need that type of acceleration. In some cases, the kid just didn't want to take Algebra 1 and the parents relented. In other cases, the parents thought it was unnecessary and choose not to place their kid in Algebra. Some looked down the line and decided that their kid didn't need to be taking DE math classes in HS. It is an individual choice.

My guess is that you are confused and only half of the kids in your son's advanced math are ABLE to take Algebra in 7th. Not every child in advanced math is recommended or allowed to take Algebra. It is dependent on their test scores. Not everyone qualifies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid will take AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Seminar, and AP research. They also will have AP Government, AP European history, and AP USH. I’m not seeing a problem with doing multivariable also.

PP who wants to set up math tracks seems to think that kids who are perfectly capable of doing matrix multiplication (and mind you, matrix math underlies both modern communications and large language models aka AI) in high school should be stuck doing algebra based physics extensions because...reasons. PP has yet to answer the question "why limit acceleration."

Because the increasing levels of acceleration are creating a toxic environment that doesn't provide a significant benefit for the vast majority of kids.

It's a race to nowhere. There is very little value in accelerating beyond a year (or two on a limited basis).

I think some people have a hard time accepting that there are always going to be smarter kids and more nurturing families. And it is a social issue for them, not an educational one.

Acceleration isn’t meant to benefit the vast majority of kids. Acceleration is meant to benefit those who need it and currently it’s about 10-15% of kids.

Algebra in 7th is such a low bar too.

Education isnt a race to nowhere; it’s an endless journey, but some just walk faster.

Some acceleration is great. Having some calculus in HS is helpful.

10-15% is too large of a cohort for exceptionally gifted. It will include many bright kids who would have been just fine with algebra in 8th.

Limit the hyper acceleration to the truly gifted kids. There should be a very high bar for entry.

The unnecessary over-acceleration is the race to nowhere.

Kids don’t need to be exceptionally gifted to handle algebra in 7th. The exceptionally gifted kids are taking algebra in 4th or even earlier.

Overaccelerating kids can be bad. But holding kids back and turning math into a tedious slog is also bad. The right track for a kid depends on the kid’s natural aptitude, interest, and personality. That’s best decided by the kids, parents, and teachers, rather than some internet rando who just doesn’t like math acceleration.

"To handle algebra." There is the mindset that we should push as fast as possible, even without any real benefit, just to see what they can "handle". Race to nowhere.

For truly gifted kids (not 10-15%), offering extra acceleration makes sense. Have a high bar of entry and provide this for the kids who actually need it.

For the rest of the "gifted" kids, one year of calculus in HS will serve them just fine.

OP listed several potential benefits right in the initial post.

As I've said multiple times, one year of calculus in HS would be good to prepare kids for college.

Looks good for college applications? That is the root of the arms race that is driving unnecessary acceleration.

There it is, the root of your obstinate opinion. You are concerned your child won't be able to compete on the college application because they aren't as advanced in math. I'm sure you'll happily point out other ways they were allowed to stand out though. Hypocrite.
So many kids easily ace Algebra in 7th grade. It is not two years advanced. And even if it were, they are getting A's and not struggling. There is no reason not to allow them to take those classes. It is not a "road to nowhere." That means nothing. Come up with actual arguments why it's bad or stop reposting the same dumb opinion.

My kids are fine. But I’ve seen many of their peers get pushed into higher math too soon and end up miserable.

There is no benefit for most kids to take more than one year of calculus in HS.

Over acceleration is just one aspect to the race to nowhere.

It’s toxic.

That some parents are toxic and push their kids beyond their level is not a reason to limit acceleration for everyone else. This still isn't an issue with an acceleration, just with these parents.

Which is why I think there should be a very high bar for 2+ years acceleration.

But aside from this year, there already has been a very high bar. For kids to take Algebra before 6th, they need sky high scores, teacher recommendation, and then a lot of extra testing. For 6th grade Algebra, they need a 145+ CogAT Q score, a very high score on the 4th grade math SOL, and teacher approval just to be tested again by Gatehouse for the skip. They then still need the IAAT and SOL scores the next year. 7th grade algebra has the IAAT and SOL requirements. The bar seems adequately high.

Not in my experience. We know several kids who never should have taken algebra in 7th grade. It ruined math for them. Even if they are ready for the content, they may not have the EF skills to manage a HS level class. It just seems unnecessary for most bright kids, even if they can "handle" it. Keep the bar high for 6th/7th algebra.

This is absolutely ridiculous. There are no special EF skills for Algebra, which is the same course structure as 7H but the next steps of content. They aren't doing multi-week projects and 10page essays.

Staying on top of of the faster workload. Turning in assignments, etc.

You mean, taking classes in middle school? lol

Not every kid has it together.

My older kid just that that some of the kids who took algebra in 6th/7th struggled more when they got to geometry or algebra 2, not in algebra 1 itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid will take AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Seminar, and AP research. They also will have AP Government, AP European history, and AP USH. I’m not seeing a problem with doing multivariable also.

PP who wants to set up math tracks seems to think that kids who are perfectly capable of doing matrix multiplication (and mind you, matrix math underlies both modern communications and large language models aka AI) in high school should be stuck doing algebra based physics extensions because...reasons. PP has yet to answer the question "why limit acceleration."

Because the increasing levels of acceleration are creating a toxic environment that doesn't provide a significant benefit for the vast majority of kids.

It's a race to nowhere. There is very little value in accelerating beyond a year (or two on a limited basis).

I think some people have a hard time accepting that there are always going to be smarter kids and more nurturing families. And it is a social issue for them, not an educational one.

Acceleration isn’t meant to benefit the vast majority of kids. Acceleration is meant to benefit those who need it and currently it’s about 10-15% of kids.

Algebra in 7th is such a low bar too.

Education isnt a race to nowhere; it’s an endless journey, but some just walk faster.

Some acceleration is great. Having some calculus in HS is helpful.

10-15% is too large of a cohort for exceptionally gifted. It will include many bright kids who would have been just fine with algebra in 8th.

Limit the hyper acceleration to the truly gifted kids. There should be a very high bar for entry.

The unnecessary over-acceleration is the race to nowhere.

Kids don’t need to be exceptionally gifted to handle algebra in 7th. The exceptionally gifted kids are taking algebra in 4th or even earlier.

Overaccelerating kids can be bad. But holding kids back and turning math into a tedious slog is also bad. The right track for a kid depends on the kid’s natural aptitude, interest, and personality. That’s best decided by the kids, parents, and teachers, rather than some internet rando who just doesn’t like math acceleration.

"To handle algebra." There is the mindset that we should push as fast as possible, even without any real benefit, just to see what they can "handle". Race to nowhere.

For truly gifted kids (not 10-15%), offering extra acceleration makes sense. Have a high bar of entry and provide this for the kids who actually need it.

For the rest of the "gifted" kids, one year of calculus in HS will serve them just fine.

OP listed several potential benefits right in the initial post.

As I've said multiple times, one year of calculus in HS would be good to prepare kids for college.

Looks good for college applications? That is the root of the arms race that is driving unnecessary acceleration.

There it is, the root of your obstinate opinion. You are concerned your child won't be able to compete on the college application because they aren't as advanced in math. I'm sure you'll happily point out other ways they were allowed to stand out though. Hypocrite.
So many kids easily ace Algebra in 7th grade. It is not two years advanced. And even if it were, they are getting A's and not struggling. There is no reason not to allow them to take those classes. It is not a "road to nowhere." That means nothing. Come up with actual arguments why it's bad or stop reposting the same dumb opinion.

My kids are fine. But I’ve seen many of their peers get pushed into higher math too soon and end up miserable.

There is no benefit for most kids to take more than one year of calculus in HS.

Over acceleration is just one aspect to the race to nowhere.

It’s toxic.

That some parents are toxic and push their kids beyond their level is not a reason to limit acceleration for everyone else. This still isn't an issue with an acceleration, just with these parents.

Which is why I think there should be a very high bar for 2+ years acceleration.

But aside from this year, there already has been a very high bar. For kids to take Algebra before 6th, they need sky high scores, teacher recommendation, and then a lot of extra testing. For 6th grade Algebra, they need a 145+ CogAT Q score, a very high score on the 4th grade math SOL, and teacher approval just to be tested again by Gatehouse for the skip. They then still need the IAAT and SOL scores the next year. 7th grade algebra has the IAAT and SOL requirements. The bar seems adequately high.

Not in my experience. We know several kids who never should have taken algebra in 7th grade. It ruined math for them. Even if they are ready for the content, they may not have the EF skills to manage a HS level class. It just seems unnecessary for most bright kids, even if they can "handle" it. Keep the bar high for 6th/7th algebra.

This is absolutely ridiculous. There are no special EF skills for Algebra, which is the same course structure as 7H but the next steps of content. They aren't doing multi-week projects and 10page essays.

Staying on top of of the faster workload. Turning in assignments, etc.

You mean, taking classes in middle school? lol

Not every kid has it together.

My older kid just that that some of the kids who took algebra in 6th/7th struggled more when they got to geometry or algebra 2, not in algebra 1 itself.

I know many who struggled in algebra1 in 9th grade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The loudest voices against acceleration are those with kids who couldn’t qualify for 7th grade algebra. Holding other kids back makes their kid look comparatively stronger. They’ve never had a kid bored out of their mind in math class, so they don’t understand the need to accelerate

I’m not against acceleration. I’m against excessive acceleration for all. Save it for the true math geniuses with a high bar for entry.

My youngest qualified for algebra in 6th.

There a bunch of kids doing Algebra 1 in 6th grade at our school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP 6th grade math teacher here. About 1/2 my class will be taking Algebra 1 next year. I knew in October who these kids would most likely be and offered Algebra 1 extensions. The other 1/2 of my class are good students and decent in math but there are major differences. My kids who tested into Algebra for next year are retaining information from previous years and units. The other half forget concepts from 4th, 5th , 6th grade math and need constant spiraling and review. The higher kids take advantage of enrichment opportunities and want to do math for fun. With all that being said, I consistently have 100 percent pass rate on the SOL.



I think the way things are set up now is appropriate. Algebra in 7th for some. Most in 8th. A small amount in 6th. The need is not there to pilot at ES. I against the push for all to take Algebra in 8th too. Every kid in FCPS is not going into college and will need higher level math. Even going into college, it depends on what you major in. I loved math and was strong in it, but my undergrad degree was humanities based and my minor was business. I took one Gen Ed math course and two accounting courses and that was it in college.

In our Gen Ed 6th grade classes, we gave kids who cannot compute. Even in my advanced math class, I have kids who struggle with operations. I also feel with open honors classes, parents aren’t always honest with their kids abilities. We have kids who fail the SOLS sign up for honors classes.

I am all for offering kids challenges, but there should still be requirements.

My Gen Ed/ level 3 kid signed up for middle school honors. We were told if kids didn't pass sol they would be dropped from honors. I expect the school will keep their word on the requirements and it should be an engaging class ( as opposed to sitting around waiting for the kids below grade level to catch up).
There are kids at all levels who are having trouble accessing the level of engagement they need...

They try to dissuade parents but ultimately it is the parent’s choice. Secondly, there are many kids who are in interventions all year who may pass SOL but get a low pass. 400-415. They sign up for honors classes as well. IMO for math or English honors you should have a solid pass of 450 or higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and I'm not sure if I'm just caught up in the Northern Virginia mindset.

Our child scored well on both the Iowa and the SOL and their teacher recommends they take out for one next year in seventh grade. I'm sitting here wondering why?

I completely understand why it's beneficial for some maybe even the majority of kids to take calculus in their senior year. But how many kids are really going to benefit from taking 2 years of calculus?

So I guess my question is what's the point? Aside for taking an extra year of college math in high school, why do it?

So far I come up with it. Might look better on college applications, make college classes either easier or something you can get credit for while in HS.

I have this underlying fear that they are going to push anyone who scores well into algebra 1, so there are less kids in 7th grade honors. That allows for smaller classes and helps with the goal of Algebra for all by grade 8

Know that you don't have to accelerate your kid. About half the kids in my sons Advanced Math class choose Math 7H instead of Algebra 1 H in 7th grade. They had the choice and decided that they did not need that type of acceleration. In some cases, the kid just didn't want to take Algebra 1 and the parents relented. In other cases, the parents thought it was unnecessary and choose not to place their kid in Algebra. Some looked down the line and decided that their kid didn't need to be taking DE math classes in HS. It is an individual choice.

My guess is that you are confused and only half of the kids in your son's advanced math are ABLE to take Algebra in 7th. Not every child in advanced math is recommended or allowed to take Algebra. It is dependent on their test scores. Not everyone qualifies.

I did miss a phrase in my original post, of the kids in my DS class who qualified, about half choose Algebra 1 and half choose M7H. I know at least 7 kids in Algebra 1, we know the kids and they discuss their classes, and I know four kids who choose M7H instead of Algebra1. The kids I don’t know attend a different MS or are not friends with my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP 6th grade math teacher here. About 1/2 my class will be taking Algebra 1 next year. I knew in October who these kids would most likely be and offered Algebra 1 extensions. The other 1/2 of my class are good students and decent in math but there are major differences. My kids who tested into Algebra for next year are retaining information from previous years and units. The other half forget concepts from 4th, 5th , 6th grade math and need constant spiraling and review. The higher kids take advantage of enrichment opportunities and want to do math for fun. With all that being said, I consistently have 100 percent pass rate on the SOL.



I think the way things are set up now is appropriate. Algebra in 7th for some. Most in 8th. A small amount in 6th. The need is not there to pilot at ES. I against the push for all to take Algebra in 8th too. Every kid in FCPS is not going into college and will need higher level math. Even going into college, it depends on what you major in. I loved math and was strong in it, but my undergrad degree was humanities based and my minor was business. I took one Gen Ed math course and two accounting courses and that was it in college.

In our Gen Ed 6th grade classes, we gave kids who cannot compute. Even in my advanced math class, I have kids who struggle with operations. I also feel with open honors classes, parents aren’t always honest with their kids abilities. We have kids who fail the SOLS sign up for honors classes.

I am all for offering kids challenges, but there should still be requirements.

My Gen Ed/ level 3 kid signed up for middle school honors. We were told if kids didn't pass sol they would be dropped from honors. I expect the school will keep their word on the requirements and it should be an engaging class ( as opposed to sitting around waiting for the kids below grade level to catch up).
There are kids at all levels who are having trouble accessing the level of engagement they need...

They try to dissuade parents but ultimately it is the parent’s choice. Secondly, there are many kids who are in interventions all year who may pass SOL but get a low pass. 400-415. They sign up for honors classes as well. IMO for math or English honors you should have a solid pass of 450 or higher.

We have a friend whose child enrolled in the regular level classes, which were a better fit academically for him. The kids in his class just didn’t care and were disruptive. The kid was not an academically motivated kid and asked to move into honors classes so they could learn something. Honors is well above what they can handle but the alternative are classes where you learn nothing. After hearing a few stories along these lines, we choose AAP in MS after deferring in ES. We figured it was the best way to get the higher level curriculum.

You don’t put a kid who wants to learn something in the general ed classes because what they do in those classes is remedial. The Teachers read the books to kids and there is no homework. Everything is done in class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AAP 6th grade math teacher here. About 1/2 my class will be taking Algebra 1 next year. I knew in October who these kids would most likely be and offered Algebra 1 extensions. The other 1/2 of my class are good students and decent in math but there are major differences. My kids who tested into Algebra for next year are retaining information from previous years and units. The other half forget concepts from 4th, 5th , 6th grade math and need constant spiraling and review. The higher kids take advantage of enrichment opportunities and want to do math for fun. With all that being said, I consistently have 100 percent pass rate on the SOL.



I think the way things are set up now is appropriate. Algebra in 7th for some. Most in 8th. A small amount in 6th. The need is not there to pilot at ES. I against the push for all to take Algebra in 8th too. Every kid in FCPS is not going into college and will need higher level math. Even going into college, it depends on what you major in. I loved math and was strong in it, but my undergrad degree was humanities based and my minor was business. I took one Gen Ed math course and two accounting courses and that was it in college.

In our Gen Ed 6th grade classes, we gave kids who cannot compute. Even in my advanced math class, I have kids who struggle with operations. I also feel with open honors classes, parents aren’t always honest with their kids abilities. We have kids who fail the SOLS sign up for honors classes.

I am all for offering kids challenges, but there should still be requirements.

My 7th grader in Honors Algebra makes computation errors - those are pretty much the only reason she gets points off. She nearly always understands the actual algebraic concept. She just sometimes makes really dumb mistakes. Still pulling an A in the class, though.

And forgetting concepts from 4th-6th math can be on the prior year teachers. Some teachers at our ES center didn't do nearly enough drill of various concepts like multidigit multiplication or long division.