How can we combat deep misogyny?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You need to dispense of the notion that men and women are equally equipped and inclined to handled the same things. Much of what is deemed "misogyny" is simply just taking this reality as a first principle rather than seeking absolute "equality" in everything, which is folly. Equality is a mirage.

And here is why she lost. RIGHT HERE!!!! Blatant, unapologetic misogyny on display.

On the contrary, I think you are Exhibit A of why she lost. You can't even handle a little sober truth without freaking out. This behavior is repellant to most of America.

Please don't mistake your bigoted views for the "truth." Live with the fact that you think that women are inferior and accept the fact that you're a misogynist. That is the only truth. Another sad truth is that there were many of you this time around and you elected another bigot. Good for you. For now.

All I said was that men and women have different inclinations and capacities. This is the truth. Apparently this was too much for you to handle without getting bent out of shape and reading a bunch of mumbo jumbo into what was a very simple statement. You are the problem.

This kind of gaslighting works on uneducated women. Not the vast majority of us on here (who have at least a BS/BAdegree). We are capable of having discussions with nuance and reading between the lines. You have said women are not capable of the job.

You are bringing your own baggage into your reading of what I said. Plenty of women are capable of being President. Choose and create for them instead of trying to force a mediocrity like Kamala down our throats.

But that's not what you said!!!!! You said women are not equal to men. We "need to dispense of the notion that men and women are equally equipped and inclined to handled the same things."

Yes, if you take the average man and the average woman, they are not equal in inclination or capacity. It's ok to acknowledge this and silly to present otherwise. It does not mean that no woman has the capacity or inclination to be the President. I thought this thread was about misogyny, broadly speaking.

Do you think that men and women have the "inclination" and "capacity" at equal rates?

No, of course not. As one simple example, men seek risk more, which means they die more frequently from dumb risky things but also reap more benefits from risk-seeking behavior. This desire for forced equality of outcomes benefits no one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 44 year old mixed European-Asian who has lived on several continents.

I have yet to meet anyone, of any gender, who isn't prejudiced about gender, race, religion, socio-economic status, etc. Some ethnic groups take stereotypes for granted and state it as established fact, while Americans and western Europeans, for the most part, know misogyny (and any other prejudice) is something they need to keep under wraps and possibly work to refute.

But deep down? We're all like this. My husband is like this. My father is like this. My best friend's super progressive, self-proclaimed feminist husband is like this. They don't come out and say it! But it colors their entire way of relating to the world. Sometimes I think the least misogynist man I know is my deeply conservative and pious Catholic godfather. He has integrated from his religion that he needs to respect all humans. But then... he also attended an anti-gay marriage rally. Sigh.

Gender equality, sexual orientation and race-blindness, are all mirages.

I wanted to fight you on this but I stepped back and see it. 100% agree.

Unfortunately my opinion is that as long as women’s bodies are such that they bear children and they can be raped, misogyny will always prevail. It’s all about power and short of neutering every male in the universe, they will always have more power than women do. Even if every man was neutered and artificial insemination was used for reproduction, the vulnerability women face during pregnancy and childbirth and their innate willingness to put a child before themselves after birth would still grant more power to men.

I don’t tell my DD that because I don’t want her to give up.

I wish I didn't agree, but I do.

It's about power, sexual dominance and ownership, and control. Some men are worse than others, but they are all like this.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You need to dispense of the notion that men and women are equally equipped and inclined to handled the same things. Much of what is deemed "misogyny" is simply just taking this reality as a first principle rather than seeking absolute "equality" in everything, which is folly. Equality is a mirage.

And here is why she lost. RIGHT HERE!!!! Blatant, unapologetic misogyny on display.

On the contrary, I think you are Exhibit A of why she lost. You can't even handle a little sober truth without freaking out. This behavior is repellant to most of America.

Please don't mistake your bigoted views for the "truth." Live with the fact that you think that women are inferior and accept the fact that you're a misogynist. That is the only truth. Another sad truth is that there were many of you this time around and you elected another bigot. Good for you. For now.

All I said was that men and women have different inclinations and capacities. This is the truth. Apparently this was too much for you to handle without getting bent out of shape and reading a bunch of mumbo jumbo into what was a very simple statement. You are the problem.

This kind of gaslighting works on uneducated women. Not the vast majority of us on here (who have at least a BS/BAdegree). We are capable of having discussions with nuance and reading between the lines. You have said women are not capable of the job.

You are bringing your own baggage into your reading of what I said. Plenty of women are capable of being President. Choose and create for them instead of trying to force a mediocrity like Kamala down our throats.

But that's not what you said!!!!! You said women are not equal to men. We "need to dispense of the notion that men and women are equally equipped and inclined to handled the same things."

Yes, if you take the average man and the average woman, they are not equal in inclination or capacity. It's ok to acknowledge this and silly to present otherwise. It does not mean that no woman has the capacity or inclination to be the President. I thought this thread was about misogyny, broadly speaking.

Do you think that men and women have the "inclination" and "capacity" at equal rates?

No, of course not. As one simple example, men seek risk more, which means they die more frequently from dumb risky things but also reap more benefits from risk-seeking behavior. This desire for forced equality of outcomes benefits no one.

Let me ask this question again. Do you think that men and women have the "inclination" and "capacity" to be POTUS or in high status positions at equal rates?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think in person connection and positive male and female role models are key.

Clearly we are alone in thinking this. I keep wondering what happened to the middle. The left move left the right moved right and I'm caught in the valley in the middle, not liking either side.

I'm particularly sad about what will happen to the climate change agreements. Trump will be dead in 10 years, and he's demonstrated he has no care for the future.

The so-called "middle" went with Trump. He has become much more normal, as opposed to the Dem's more extremist policies.

Project 2025 is normal, policy as usual? And don't gaslight us by telling us that he has nothing to do with that.

Cite some examples of the Democrats "extremist" policies.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You need to dispense of the notion that men and women are equally equipped and inclined to handled the same things. Much of what is deemed "misogyny" is simply just taking this reality as a first principle rather than seeking absolute "equality" in everything, which is folly. Equality is a mirage.

And here is why she lost. RIGHT HERE!!!! Blatant, unapologetic misogyny on display.

On the contrary, I think you are Exhibit A of why she lost. You can't even handle a little sober truth without freaking out. This behavior is repellant to most of America.

Please don't mistake your bigoted views for the "truth." Live with the fact that you think that women are inferior and accept the fact that you're a misogynist. That is the only truth. Another sad truth is that there were many of you this time around and you elected another bigot. Good for you. For now.

All I said was that men and women have different inclinations and capacities. This is the truth. Apparently this was too much for you to handle without getting bent out of shape and reading a bunch of mumbo jumbo into what was a very simple statement. You are the problem.

This kind of gaslighting works on uneducated women. Not the vast majority of us on here (who have at least a BS/BAdegree). We are capable of having discussions with nuance and reading between the lines. You have said women are not capable of the job.

You are bringing your own baggage into your reading of what I said. Plenty of women are capable of being President. Choose and create for them instead of trying to force a mediocrity like Kamala down our throats.

But that's not what you said!!!!! You said women are not equal to men. We "need to dispense of the notion that men and women are equally equipped and inclined to handled the same things."

Yes, if you take the average man and the average woman, they are not equal in inclination or capacity. It's ok to acknowledge this and silly to present otherwise. It does not mean that no woman has the capacity or inclination to be the President. I thought this thread was about misogyny, broadly speaking.

How nice to start playing dumb now. It's one thing to say Kamala was not qualified to be president because of her record, policy plans or any number of things. It's entirely different to say that Kamala lost because women are not capable of being president which is what you did and continue to do even though you're pretending not to.

And NO, women do not have different abilities or inclinations when it comes to running for office. Only a misogynist would say that. Which is what you are.

Please show me where I said that.

Your last few sentences are silly. Of course they do. Unless you believe that all of those studies touting women as more empathetic leaders than men are complete bunk. Yeah...thought so.

What a beta you are - it makes perfect sense why you feel threatened by intelligent women. I’m glad my husband is a real man who doesn’t spend his afternoons trolling mommy blogs.

Oh, no! Not beta!! I am finished!

Funny how you probably balk at men calling themselves "alpha" but fall right into the same paradigm when you get rattled to try to score points. You're a hypocrite.

I laugh at all the men who call themselves alphas because they simply aren’t. Men calling themselves alphas are such low value men that they need to try to convince people they aren’t losers. If you need to say it…

I fully acknowledge there are alphas and betas in this world. I believe women or men can be alphas. And I admit I find betas a total turn off. I married an alpha (he would never call himself that because he thinks it’s dumb) but it’s true. He has a high pressure, high paying job. I wouldn’t settle for a poor loser that tells everyone they are an alpha while spending the day arguing with a stay at home mom sitting in the carpool lane.. But I’m sure you have other redeeming qualities other than being a total beta.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we need to give up on the Andrew Tates and Joe Rogans and just raise boys better from the ground up.

It makes me so happy when my 4 yr old nephew asks before he touches, or talks about his feelings and can verbalize them. That's the kind of stuff everyone needs to be teaching little boys. (And that they're NOT owed everything they want by the world.)

here is exhibit A as to why you have no clue whats going on outside your bubble. Andrew State and Joe Rogan are TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Andrew Tate is a convicted male macho Muslim and Joe Rogan is a laid back normal guy that isn't extreme. Until you start understanding the difference you won't make people think anything other than you are batshit crazy.

You mean the idiot who refused to listen to a well known infectious disease researcher and still, to this day, believe you can bake covid out of your lungs with hot air?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You need to dispense of the notion that men and women are equally equipped and inclined to handled the same things. Much of what is deemed "misogyny" is simply just taking this reality as a first principle rather than seeking absolute "equality" in everything, which is folly. Equality is a mirage.

And here is why she lost. RIGHT HERE!!!! Blatant, unapologetic misogyny on display.

On the contrary, I think you are Exhibit A of why she lost. You can't even handle a little sober truth without freaking out. This behavior is repellant to most of America.

Please don't mistake your bigoted views for the "truth." Live with the fact that you think that women are inferior and accept the fact that you're a misogynist. That is the only truth. Another sad truth is that there were many of you this time around and you elected another bigot. Good for you. For now.

All I said was that men and women have different inclinations and capacities. This is the truth. Apparently this was too much for you to handle without getting bent out of shape and reading a bunch of mumbo jumbo into what was a very simple statement. You are the problem.

This kind of gaslighting works on uneducated women. Not the vast majority of us on here (who have at least a BS/BAdegree). We are capable of having discussions with nuance and reading between the lines. You have said women are not capable of the job.

You are bringing your own baggage into your reading of what I said. Plenty of women are capable of being President. Choose and create for them instead of trying to force a mediocrity like Kamala down our throats.

But that's not what you said!!!!! You said women are not equal to men. We "need to dispense of the notion that men and women are equally equipped and inclined to handled the same things."

Yes, if you take the average man and the average woman, they are not equal in inclination or capacity. It's ok to acknowledge this and silly to present otherwise. It does not mean that no woman has the capacity or inclination to be the President. I thought this thread was about misogyny, broadly speaking.

How nice to start playing dumb now. It's one thing to say Kamala was not qualified to be president because of her record, policy plans or any number of things. It's entirely different to say that Kamala lost because women are not capable of being president which is what you did and continue to do even though you're pretending not to.

And NO, women do not have different abilities or inclinations when it comes to running for office. Only a misogynist would say that. Which is what you are.

Please show me where I said that.

Your last few sentences are silly. Of course they do. Unless you believe that all of those studies touting women as more empathetic leaders than men are complete bunk. Yeah...thought so.

What a beta you are - it makes perfect sense why you feel threatened by intelligent women. I’m glad my husband is a real man who doesn’t spend his afternoons trolling mommy blogs.

You're losing your way here.
-a woman poster

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:You need to dispense of the notion that men and women are equally equipped and inclined to handled the same things. Much of what is deemed "misogyny" is simply just taking this reality as a first principle rather than seeking absolute "equality" in everything, which is folly. Equality is a mirage.

And here is why she lost. RIGHT HERE!!!! Blatant, unapologetic misogyny on display.

On the contrary, I think you are Exhibit A of why she lost. You can't even handle a little sober truth without freaking out. This behavior is repellant to most of America.

Please don't mistake your bigoted views for the "truth." Live with the fact that you think that women are inferior and accept the fact that you're a misogynist. That is the only truth. Another sad truth is that there were many of you this time around and you elected another bigot. Good for you. For now.

All I said was that men and women have different inclinations and capacities. This is the truth. Apparently this was too much for you to handle without getting bent out of shape and reading a bunch of mumbo jumbo into what was a very simple statement. You are the problem.

This kind of gaslighting works on uneducated women. Not the vast majority of us on here (who have at least a BS/BAdegree). We are capable of having discussions with nuance and reading between the lines. You have said women are not capable of the job.

You are bringing your own baggage into your reading of what I said. Plenty of women are capable of being President. Choose and create for them instead of trying to force a mediocrity like Kamala down our throats.

But that's not what you said!!!!! You said women are not equal to men. We "need to dispense of the notion that men and women are equally equipped and inclined to handled the same things."

Yes, if you take the average man and the average woman, they are not equal in inclination or capacity. It's ok to acknowledge this and silly to present otherwise. It does not mean that no woman has the capacity or inclination to be the President. I thought this thread was about misogyny, broadly speaking.

Do you think that men and women have the "inclination" and "capacity" at equal rates?

No, of course not. As one simple example, men seek risk more, which means they die more frequently from dumb risky things but also reap more benefits from risk-seeking behavior. This desire for forced equality of outcomes benefits no one.

Who is more/less capable of being POTUS?

Men or women?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what woman do you think is qualified to be POTUS? If not Harris, Clinton, etc. I'm curious who one would think is "ready" or 'good enough" to be on a ticket? Either this year, or next election?

I think Clinton is qualified and would be credible/competent but it may be too late for her. Harris is not. Lauren Underwood seems like a promising up and comer for a Post-Trump era, but she probably needs a little bit more time and seasoning.

Thanks for the response.

Anybody else from either the left or the right, care to offer up names from the past decade or so (to present), who you think was sufficiently qualified to be POTUS and commander in chief while being a woman?

Liz Cheney would be a contender, but wants no part of it, AFAIK.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Put up a better female candidate next time and stop blaming it on this.

In what world is a grifter, rapist, insurrectionist, and convicted felon a better candidate?

In this case, it was. Tells you something about the female candidate, right?

No, it doesn't. It just says that you'd rather vote for a grifter, rapist, insurrectionist, and convicted felon than a woman (and God forbid a black woman). But let me guess, you're an old white dude.

I’m not this poster but am a woman who voted for Hillary and did not vote for Kamala. But, sure, blame it on misogyny instead of looking at the candidate and the policy positions she’s taken over the years.

For me, it was this. I understand people are shocked and upset, but I hope once the dust settles, they can take a serious look at where things went wrong, and stop blaming it on anything other than what it was. If they fail to do this, we will be here again in four years.

We aren't going to have any more elections. Trump told us this already

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to dispense of the notion that men and women are equally equipped and inclined to handled the same things. Much of what is deemed "misogyny" is simply just taking this reality as a first principle rather than seeking absolute "equality" in everything, which is folly. Equality is a mirage.

And here is why she lost. RIGHT HERE!!!! Blatant, unapologetic misogyny on display.

On the contrary, I think you are Exhibit A of why she lost. You can't even handle a little sober truth without freaking out. This behavior is repellant to most of America.

Please don't mistake your bigoted views for the "truth." Live with the fact that you think that women are inferior and accept the fact that you're a misogynist. That is the only truth. Another sad truth is that there were many of you this time around and you elected another bigot. Good for you. For now.

All I said was that men and women have different inclinations and capacities. This is the truth. Apparently this was too much for you to handle without getting bent out of shape and reading a bunch of mumbo jumbo into what was a very simple statement. You are the problem.

Saying it doesn't make it the truth. It's your opinion. There are of course statistics about EG, men's tolerance for risk versus women's, and other characteristics that are more prevalent in sex than in the other, but that does not translate to men and women having different inclinations and capacities as "the truth."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:You need to dispense of the notion that men and women are equally equipped and inclined to handled the same things. Much of what is deemed "misogyny" is simply just taking this reality as a first principle rather than seeking absolute "equality" in everything, which is folly. Equality is a mirage.

And here is why she lost. RIGHT HERE!!!! Blatant, unapologetic misogyny on display.

On the contrary, I think you are Exhibit A of why she lost. You can't even handle a little sober truth without freaking out. This behavior is repellant to most of America.

Please don't mistake your bigoted views for the "truth." Live with the fact that you think that women are inferior and accept the fact that you're a misogynist. That is the only truth. Another sad truth is that there were many of you this time around and you elected another bigot. Good for you. For now.

All I said was that men and women have different inclinations and capacities. This is the truth. Apparently this was too much for you to handle without getting bent out of shape and reading a bunch of mumbo jumbo into what was a very simple statement. You are the problem.

Yeah, I'm sure Kalmala wasn't qualified to be president because she can't bench press 200 lbs. GMAFB

Kamala is not a good candidate. It's ok to admit that without falling into the silly trap of calling everyone misogynist for pointing out her very obvious deficiencies, which are not counterbalanced by any particularly noteworthy gifts. In the realm of presidential politics, she's not particularly good or standout at anything. You may think you are helping, but it does no one any favors.

No, no. Not everyone. I called you a misogynist in direct response to your comments. So let's get that straight. Own your "truth."

You think an elected senator, an AG and a prosecutor is less qualified or not good at anything?

How about slowing down and stop frothing? In the realm of presidential politics, yes she is nothing special at all. She has no standout qualities or gifts. If all you can list are titles, perhaps you agree with me deep down.

Oh FFS it's like talking to a pigeon. What qualities does your guy have? Failed businesses? A criminal record? A filed TV show? Even if you take away all of the rhetoric he spews, Kamala is and always will be more qualified than Trump. She is more educated, has been elected to more positions and is younger and sharper.

What does qualities does your guy have? Won two national presidential elections. How about your girl?

Np. Right there is an example. Harris is a woman. Not a 'girl'. I agree orange dude ia a toddler bit you would never say boy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a women who voted for Hillary, Warren in primary, and Harris, I will not endorse a women again because this country is not ready. My boys are, but only one can vote in the next election cycle

Same. No more Dem women at the top of the ticket.

So one day your son will vote for a woman as President and you won't?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You need to dispense of the notion that men and women are equally equipped and inclined to handled the same things. Much of what is deemed "misogyny" is simply just taking this reality as a first principle rather than seeking absolute "equality" in everything, which is folly. Equality is a mirage.

And here is why she lost. RIGHT HERE!!!! Blatant, unapologetic misogyny on display.

On the contrary, I think you are Exhibit A of why she lost. You can't even handle a little sober truth without freaking out. This behavior is repellant to most of America.

Please don't mistake your bigoted views for the "truth." Live with the fact that you think that women are inferior and accept the fact that you're a misogynist. That is the only truth. Another sad truth is that there were many of you this time around and you elected another bigot. Good for you. For now.

All I said was that men and women have different inclinations and capacities. This is the truth. Apparently this was too much for you to handle without getting bent out of shape and reading a bunch of mumbo jumbo into what was a very simple statement. You are the problem.

This kind of gaslighting works on uneducated women. Not the vast majority of us on here (who have at least a BS/BAdegree). We are capable of having discussions with nuance and reading between the lines. You have said women are not capable of the job.

You are bringing your own baggage into your reading of what I said. Plenty of women are capable of being President. Choose and create for them instead of trying to force a mediocrity like Kamala down our throats.

But that's not what you said!!!!! You said women are not equal to men. We "need to dispense of the notion that men and women are equally equipped and inclined to handled the same things."

Yes, if you take the average man and the average woman, they are not equal in inclination or capacity. It's ok to acknowledge this and silly to present otherwise. It does not mean that no woman has the capacity or inclination to be the President. I thought this thread was about misogyny, broadly speaking.

Even if we accept that what you are saying is correct, or "the truth," it's still a misogynistic statement because it presupposes that the presidency requires male inclinations and capacity to be carried out effectively. Operating on the assumption that what you are saying is the truth, it may well be that women's inclinations and capacities are better suited to leadership.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:You need to dispense of the notion that men and women are equally equipped and inclined to handled the same things. Much of what is deemed "misogyny" is simply just taking this reality as a first principle rather than seeking absolute "equality" in everything, which is folly. Equality is a mirage.

And here is why she lost. RIGHT HERE!!!! Blatant, unapologetic misogyny on display.

On the contrary, I think you are Exhibit A of why she lost. You can't even handle a little sober truth without freaking out. This behavior is repellant to most of America.

Please don't mistake your bigoted views for the "truth." Live with the fact that you think that women are inferior and accept the fact that you're a misogynist. That is the only truth. Another sad truth is that there were many of you this time around and you elected another bigot. Good for you. For now.

All I said was that men and women have different inclinations and capacities. This is the truth. Apparently this was too much for you to handle without getting bent out of shape and reading a bunch of mumbo jumbo into what was a very simple statement. You are the problem.

This kind of gaslighting works on uneducated women. Not the vast majority of us on here (who have at least a BS/BAdegree). We are capable of having discussions with nuance and reading between the lines. You have said women are not capable of the job.

You are bringing your own baggage into your reading of what I said. Plenty of women are capable of being President. Choose and create for them instead of trying to force a mediocrity like Kamala down our throats.

But that's not what you said!!!!! You said women are not equal to men. We "need to dispense of the notion that men and women are equally equipped and inclined to handled the same things."

Yes, if you take the average man and the average woman, they are not equal in inclination or capacity. It's ok to acknowledge this and silly to present otherwise. It does not mean that no woman has the capacity or inclination to be the President. I thought this thread was about misogyny, broadly speaking.

Do you think that men and women have the "inclination" and "capacity" at equal rates?

No, of course not. As one simple example, men seek risk more, which means they die more frequently from dumb risky things but also reap more benefits from risk-seeking behavior. This desire for forced equality of outcomes benefits no one.

Let me ask this question again. Do you think that men and women have the "inclination" and "capacity" to be POTUS or in high status positions at equal rates?

Define "high status position"? If it means something like law firm partner, then women probably have more capacity than men to do that work but, from my experience, less inclination. More women I know who hold such roles would rather be doing something else (at least relative to the men I know who hold those roles), though some do actually genuinely enjoy it. The equal rates thing is a mirage and only really ever comes up in the context of apex, status positions.

Regarding President, the short answer is probably no as of right now. But that could shift and depends on what cluster of traits the electorate (which is majority female) deems desirable in a President. If you take a snapshot at the present of what those traits are, it appears to fall around things that more men have than women. That is not to say that no woman has these things. If women eventually choose to desire traits in a President that cluster more about what women have, then men would be less equipped. Men are women being equal and outcomes being equal is a mirage.