10+ AP classes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for your replies. My questions are:

1) Are your kids not taking MV calculus - not an AP class?
2) What about double period AP classes - like chemistry and bio, in our kid's HS? Do they not eat up into other classes (e.g. you can only take 6 subjects rather than seven)
3) My kid wants to take AP drawing but it takes a long time to get there (4 years). Any advice?

At DC's school, there were 8 courses every semester, so that definitely helps. You couldn't ever take less than 8. Classes were pretty well designed, so they wouldn't run into one another. No One is taking MV calc, it's not offered-the school says when they did offer it, admissions departments gave them the eye brow and suggested slowing students down. Instead there's an occasional number theory class for seniors. Don't hasten the APs if it isn't necessary!

The high school is not up to date or not telling the truth. A large percentage of freshman at T10s and lower have taken MVC in high school. In Boston area, 2 private day schools and many boarding schools have a normal math track such that 1/4 of students take multivariable and another post AP math in senior year. It is a standard path the kids get tracked into in 6th grade. It is not rare at all, and these high schools get an impressive amount into T20s.

This was a decision last year and was a conversation between counselors and admissions departments at a national conference- no real incentive to lying, because the counselor wants as many kids getting into top schools as possible (to shut moms like me up). DC currently attends a top college and, while many students have taken multivariable, most students end up retaking linear and MVC anyway, because the college level is more dense and teaches more. College linear algebra isn’t just about matrix multiplication, it’s about mathematical proof exposure that can cause many students to fail if they skip to future classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people are reporting that their kids are taking 10+, 15, and even 20 AP classes. How is this possible? I am looking at my rising 9th grader's schedule and I don't see how you can pack more than about 10 AP classes? They can only take 1 AP class in 9th grade and you can't take, say, AP Biology, from the getgo.

If you read this the college threads, it's clear the parents are fueling this insanity by putting such an overwhelming emphasis on college. And parents on here seem more focused on college admission, rather than anything that comes after.

College is just a 4-year stop in a hopefully very long life. I'm more focused on setting my kid up for what comes after college rather than getting into a selective one with an impressive logo. If they only can get to an impressive logo college by being on a treadmill where they are overwhelming their schedule with APs, competitive sports and extracurriculars and service jobs they will arrive in a state of anxiety. Their will learn that their life is about impressing people and striving/chasing for the next "impressive goal". They'll assume achieving their high goals equates to happiness and will wonder when they get there why they aren't happy. Why they still feel anxiety and depression and constantly compare themselves to their equally high strung peers.

If it seems crazy to you for a kid fit in 10 APs between sophamore and senior years it is because it is crazy and shouldn't happen outside of some exceptional cases where the kid is very gifted and would not be challenged by regular level classes. But instead we have an arms race of crazed parents leading their kids into a crazed cycle of anxiety and comparison. And I've already seen parents on this thread reply with the may ways their kids have fit in 10-15 APs. Sigh.

Here is the thing... For some kids those classes are not hard at all. I've been a parent for a while now and many times I have met parents complaining how hard some class is while other parents say their kids are barely studying and getting 100%... Some parents complain that everything is watered down and too easy and others complain that kids are studying more than ever and need a tutor for every class. These are kids taking classes together.

Some middle schoolers could take 2-3 AP exams each summer. Now you will say - summer is for fun, they are not supposed to... but some of them want to, and can do it without some insane level of effort.

+1

Find the level right for your kid. For some, it is all the difficult classes then ivies and it still is not risking their mental well being—in fact they thrive

I don't know about the intense ramp up as kid driven. The kids we know who were doing extra APs etc were all driven by parents (magnet school).

I very much doubt you know who is driving what with any level of certainty. I have a 7th grader who learned about APs and told me they "wanted to take very possible AP".

Is that because they are riding the bus with a little sibling of a Harvard freshman, lol?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people are reporting that their kids are taking 10+, 15, and even 20 AP classes. How is this possible? I am looking at my rising 9th grader's schedule and I don't see how you can pack more than about 10 AP classes? They can only take 1 AP class in 9th grade and you can't take, say, AP Biology, from the getgo.

If you read this the college threads, it's clear the parents are fueling this insanity by putting such an overwhelming emphasis on college. And parents on here seem more focused on college admission, rather than anything that comes after.

College is just a 4-year stop in a hopefully very long life. I'm more focused on setting my kid up for what comes after college rather than getting into a selective one with an impressive logo. If they only can get to an impressive logo college by being on a treadmill where they are overwhelming their schedule with APs, competitive sports and extracurriculars and service jobs they will arrive in a state of anxiety. Their will learn that their life is about impressing people and striving/chasing for the next "impressive goal". They'll assume achieving their high goals equates to happiness and will wonder when they get there why they aren't happy. Why they still feel anxiety and depression and constantly compare themselves to their equally high strung peers.

If it seems crazy to you for a kid fit in 10 APs between sophamore and senior years it is because it is crazy and shouldn't happen outside of some exceptional cases where the kid is very gifted and would not be challenged by regular level classes. But instead we have an arms race of crazed parents leading their kids into a crazed cycle of anxiety and comparison. And I've already seen parents on this thread reply with the may ways their kids have fit in 10-15 APs. Sigh.

Facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for your replies. My questions are:

1) Are your kids not taking MV calculus - not an AP class?
2) What about double period AP classes - like chemistry and bio, in our kid's HS? Do they not eat up into other classes (e.g. you can only take 6 subjects rather than seven)
3) My kid wants to take AP drawing but it takes a long time to get there (4 years). Any advice?

At DC's school, there were 8 courses every semester, so that definitely helps. You couldn't ever take less than 8. Classes were pretty well designed, so they wouldn't run into one another. No One is taking MV calc, it's not offered-the school says when they did offer it, admissions departments gave them the eye brow and suggested slowing students down. Instead there's an occasional number theory class for seniors. Don't hasten the APs if it isn't necessary!

The high school is not up to date or not telling the truth. A large percentage of freshman at T10s and lower have taken MVC in high school. In Boston area, 2 private day schools and many boarding schools have a normal math track such that 1/4 of students take multivariable and another post AP math in senior year. It is a standard path the kids get tracked into in 6th grade. It is not rare at all, and these high schools get an impressive amount into T20s.

This was a decision last year and was a conversation between counselors and admissions departments at a national conference- no real incentive to lying, because the counselor wants as many kids getting into top schools as possible (to shut moms like me up). DC currently attends a top college and, while many students have taken multivariable, most students end up retaking linear and MVC anyway, because the college level is more dense and teaches more. College linear algebra isn’t just about matrix multiplication, it’s about mathematical proof exposure that can cause many students to fail if they skip to future classes.

Reminds me of all the confidence DC had first semester in his math class, only to run all the way back to Calc 2, because he realized how little math proof skills he had. College math is no joke

[Anonymous]

A lot of kids are doing additional math through aops and contest prep. school based math, superficial as it often is, is just a tip of the iceberg.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people are reporting that their kids are taking 10+, 15, and even 20 AP classes. How is this possible? I am looking at my rising 9th grader's schedule and I don't see how you can pack more than about 10 AP classes? They can only take 1 AP class in 9th grade and you can't take, say, AP Biology, from the getgo.

If you read this the college threads, it's clear the parents are fueling this insanity by putting such an overwhelming emphasis on college. And parents on here seem more focused on college admission, rather than anything that comes after.

College is just a 4-year stop in a hopefully very long life. I'm more focused on setting my kid up for what comes after college rather than getting into a selective one with an impressive logo. If they only can get to an impressive logo college by being on a treadmill where they are overwhelming their schedule with APs, competitive sports and extracurriculars and service jobs they will arrive in a state of anxiety. Their will learn that their life is about impressing people and striving/chasing for the next "impressive goal". They'll assume achieving their high goals equates to happiness and will wonder when they get there why they aren't happy. Why they still feel anxiety and depression and constantly compare themselves to their equally high strung peers.

If it seems crazy to you for a kid fit in 10 APs between sophamore and senior years it is because it is crazy and shouldn't happen outside of some exceptional cases where the kid is very gifted and would not be challenged by regular level classes. But instead we have an arms race of crazed parents leading their kids into a crazed cycle of anxiety and comparison. And I've already seen parents on this thread reply with the may ways their kids have fit in 10-15 APs. Sigh.

Here is the thing... For some kids those classes are not hard at all. I've been a parent for a while now and many times I have met parents complaining how hard some class is while other parents say their kids are barely studying and getting 100%... Some parents complain that everything is watered down and too easy and others complain that kids are studying more than ever and need a tutor for every class. These are kids taking classes together.

Some middle schoolers could take 2-3 AP exams each summer. Now you will say - summer is for fun, they are not supposed to... but some of them want to, and can do it without some insane level of effort.

+1

Find the level right for your kid. For some, it is all the difficult classes then ivies and it still is not risking their mental well being—in fact they thrive

I don't know about the intense ramp up as kid driven. The kids we know who were doing extra APs etc were all driven by parents (magnet school).

In the private schools near us, AP entrance is mostly by teachers who do the approval. But when 1/3 graduate with 10+ that can be considered “normal “. Not parent driven for most, just the normal top tracks for the top cohorts, with the topmost finishing BC calc in 11th and AP physC or Chem(for a few, both) by the end of 11th. No parent pushing, just part of the accepted top path.
What has been fascinating is to learn this path is not common outside of top US high schools yet is very very common for international students from India and china. The US curriculum for tippy-top US students is very common abroad

+1
I had 4 years of chemistry (including 3 years of organic chemistry) in HS. In my country, you needed this if you wanted to study medicine, which is a 6 year long BS degree. And people here act like AP chemistry is some kind phd level qualifying exam.

Kids here can do high level sports and run clubs and volunteer and have job and all that on top of all academics precisely because academics are not that demanding.

And yet here you are in our country, right? I assume if you thought your country’s education system was so great you would raise your kids there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for your replies. My questions are:

1) Are your kids not taking MV calculus - not an AP class?
2) What about double period AP classes - like chemistry and bio, in our kid's HS? Do they not eat up into other classes (e.g. you can only take 6 subjects rather than seven)
3) My kid wants to take AP drawing but it takes a long time to get there (4 years). Any advice?

Admissions departments gave them the eye brow and suggested slowing students down.

Why?

The School is already very very intense, and big on being a public liberal arts high school. Colleges know it well, and thought the school was moving very far into STEM skills and give students a little breathing room. Back when there was MV calc, the school actually had you take BC calc sophomore year, which I don't think admissions departments love to see, unless you have a very technical application-which most students just didn't. The kids like to learn a lot, but you see many art history or english majors in a bunch of STEM courses.

I'm still confused - why would they prefer an application with less math to one with more math, other things being equal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people are reporting that their kids are taking 10+, 15, and even 20 AP classes. How is this possible? I am looking at my rising 9th grader's schedule and I don't see how you can pack more than about 10 AP classes? They can only take 1 AP class in 9th grade and you can't take, say, AP Biology, from the getgo.

If you read this the college threads, it's clear the parents are fueling this insanity by putting such an overwhelming emphasis on college. And parents on here seem more focused on college admission, rather than anything that comes after.

College is just a 4-year stop in a hopefully very long life. I'm more focused on setting my kid up for what comes after college rather than getting into a selective one with an impressive logo. If they only can get to an impressive logo college by being on a treadmill where they are overwhelming their schedule with APs, competitive sports and extracurriculars and service jobs they will arrive in a state of anxiety. Their will learn that their life is about impressing people and striving/chasing for the next "impressive goal". They'll assume achieving their high goals equates to happiness and will wonder when they get there why they aren't happy. Why they still feel anxiety and depression and constantly compare themselves to their equally high strung peers.

If it seems crazy to you for a kid fit in 10 APs between sophamore and senior years it is because it is crazy and shouldn't happen outside of some exceptional cases where the kid is very gifted and would not be challenged by regular level classes. But instead we have an arms race of crazed parents leading their kids into a crazed cycle of anxiety and comparison. And I've already seen parents on this thread reply with the may ways their kids have fit in 10-15 APs. Sigh.

Here is the thing... For some kids those classes are not hard at all. I've been a parent for a while now and many times I have met parents complaining how hard some class is while other parents say their kids are barely studying and getting 100%... Some parents complain that everything is watered down and too easy and others complain that kids are studying more than ever and need a tutor for every class. These are kids taking classes together.

Some middle schoolers could take 2-3 AP exams each summer. Now you will say - summer is for fun, they are not supposed to... but some of them want to, and can do it without some insane level of effort.

It depends on how much busywork teachers assign, not the intelligence of the students. Also, AP exams aren't held over the summer, they're only held at the end of spring, so any material learnt over the summer would need to be retained over the year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look…did your kid just want to be valedictorian? Colleges don’t care if you take AP Physics 1 or 2 if you take Physics C.

They don’t really care about Art History or Human Geography or other non-core AP classes either.

I guess if that’s the route you want to take…and have no idea what else the school offers…but it’s overkill.

Or maybe you shouldn’t comment without asking better context?
Some of these were required- if you wanted to take C:E&M you had to take Phys 1 and 2. His school has one of the highest Ap Art history course enrollments in the world- got an award for it a few years ago, students take it for fun, usually sophomore year and the teacher is awesome. Human geo was a requirement. Some of those “non core ap”s are out of interest, others are requirements.

The school requires 11 aps to graduate, so that’s how life goes.

Is this Basis or some other school that believes you just take AP classes and that’s HS?

No but it is USNEWS top 10. There’s definitely a lot of AP classes, but students take other things. I see it as no different than heavy IB schools.

That’s because USNEWS generally ranks on how many AP classes kids take (and how many offered).

You will get a high USNEWS ranking if you make kids take lots of AP classes.

It’s been ranked #1 by many different sources. The school is just good lol. Half the teachers have the qualification to teach college. I know people here hate public schools, but the top 10 are great schools that are at the top of the game.

Many parents here are pay to play, and can’t believe that public education is worth its salt. The top magnet programs blow private schools out of the water. The difference is that they aren’t filled with faculty children and legacies at Dartmouth and Uchicago to get easy admissions. The kids have to work for it.

The best magnet schools are the best because of the breadth and depth of post-AP classes…not because they require you take 11…and many actually don’t offer many of the non-core, random APs.

Tell that to Stuyvesant, IMSA, Bronx Sci, Brooklyn Tech, Downtown Magnet, TESLA, TAG, Masterman, and Academic Magnet.

You’re really only speaking on TJ. Many magnets are filled to the brim with AP classes.

They all have tons of post-AP classes,which is where there apeal comes from. If you just want to load up on APs you can attend your local school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people are reporting that their kids are taking 10+, 15, and even 20 AP classes. How is this possible? I am looking at my rising 9th grader's schedule and I don't see how you can pack more than about 10 AP classes? They can only take 1 AP class in 9th grade and you can't take, say, AP Biology, from the getgo.

If you read this the college threads, it's clear the parents are fueling this insanity by putting such an overwhelming emphasis on college. And parents on here seem more focused on college admission, rather than anything that comes after.

College is just a 4-year stop in a hopefully very long life. I'm more focused on setting my kid up for what comes after college rather than getting into a selective one with an impressive logo. If they only can get to an impressive logo college by being on a treadmill where they are overwhelming their schedule with APs, competitive sports and extracurriculars and service jobs they will arrive in a state of anxiety. Their will learn that their life is about impressing people and striving/chasing for the next "impressive goal". They'll assume achieving their high goals equates to happiness and will wonder when they get there why they aren't happy. Why they still feel anxiety and depression and constantly compare themselves to their equally high strung peers.

If it seems crazy to you for a kid fit in 10 APs between sophamore and senior years it is because it is crazy and shouldn't happen outside of some exceptional cases where the kid is very gifted and would not be challenged by regular level classes. But instead we have an arms race of crazed parents leading their kids into a crazed cycle of anxiety and comparison. And I've already seen parents on this thread reply with the may ways their kids have fit in 10-15 APs. Sigh.

Here is the thing... For some kids those classes are not hard at all. I've been a parent for a while now and many times I have met parents complaining how hard some class is while other parents say their kids are barely studying and getting 100%... Some parents complain that everything is watered down and too easy and others complain that kids are studying more than ever and need a tutor for every class. These are kids taking classes together.

Some middle schoolers could take 2-3 AP exams each summer. Now you will say - summer is for fun, they are not supposed to... but some of them want to, and can do it without some insane level of effort.

It depends on how much busywork teachers assign, not the intelligence of the students. Also, AP exams aren't held over the summer, they're only held at the end of spring, so any material learnt over the summer would need to be retained over the year.

I wouldn’t call it “busy work”, but you may have one AP History teacher assigning multiple 10+ page papers to their class and another that just makes kids experts on writing the responses to the AP test essay prompts (which are short).

The latter teacher may actually get more 5s from the class, but the amount of work with the former teacher may be 3x or more in the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like many schools have put an AP in front of a lot of their classes. A different kind of inflation.

That's not how AP works.

People here are very misinformed. Id be surprised if they’ve ever seen the thick AP binders teachers have to go through and the approvals you have to do to teach AP

Being AP approved is easy, even homeschool parents do it all the time. The collegeboard even gives you a curriculum you can submit and get approved.

[Anonymous]

The college board knows that there is a sucker born every second and they are taking it in with curriculum sales and $80 a pop per test.

Public schools are just loading up their schedules with a bunch of junk AP courses that really don't amount to anything more than an honors course.

Colleges know this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people are reporting that their kids are taking 10+, 15, and even 20 AP classes. How is this possible? I am looking at my rising 9th grader's schedule and I don't see how you can pack more than about 10 AP classes? They can only take 1 AP class in 9th grade and you can't take, say, AP Biology, from the getgo.

If you read this the college threads, it's clear the parents are fueling this insanity by putting such an overwhelming emphasis on college. And parents on here seem more focused on college admission, rather than anything that comes after.

College is just a 4-year stop in a hopefully very long life. I'm more focused on setting my kid up for what comes after college rather than getting into a selective one with an impressive logo. If they only can get to an impressive logo college by being on a treadmill where they are overwhelming their schedule with APs, competitive sports and extracurriculars and service jobs they will arrive in a state of anxiety. Their will learn that their life is about impressing people and striving/chasing for the next "impressive goal". They'll assume achieving their high goals equates to happiness and will wonder when they get there why they aren't happy. Why they still feel anxiety and depression and constantly compare themselves to their equally high strung peers.

If it seems crazy to you for a kid fit in 10 APs between sophamore and senior years it is because it is crazy and shouldn't happen outside of some exceptional cases where the kid is very gifted and would not be challenged by regular level classes. But instead we have an arms race of crazed parents leading their kids into a crazed cycle of anxiety and comparison. And I've already seen parents on this thread reply with the may ways their kids have fit in 10-15 APs. Sigh.

Here is the thing... For some kids those classes are not hard at all. I've been a parent for a while now and many times I have met parents complaining how hard some class is while other parents say their kids are barely studying and getting 100%... Some parents complain that everything is watered down and too easy and others complain that kids are studying more than ever and need a tutor for every class. These are kids taking classes together.

Some middle schoolers could take 2-3 AP exams each summer. Now you will say - summer is for fun, they are not supposed to... but some of them want to, and can do it without some insane level of effort.

+1

Find the level right for your kid. For some, it is all the difficult classes then ivies and it still is not risking their mental well being—in fact they thrive

I don't know about the intense ramp up as kid driven. The kids we know who were doing extra APs etc were all driven by parents (magnet school).

In the private schools near us, AP entrance is mostly by teachers who do the approval. But when 1/3 graduate with 10+ that can be considered “normal “. Not parent driven for most, just the normal top tracks for the top cohorts, with the topmost finishing BC calc in 11th and AP physC or Chem(for a few, both) by the end of 11th. No parent pushing, just part of the accepted top path.
What has been fascinating is to learn this path is not common outside of top US high schools yet is very very common for international students from India and china. The US curriculum for tippy-top US students is very common abroad

+1
I had 4 years of chemistry (including 3 years of organic chemistry) in HS. In my country, you needed this if you wanted to study medicine, which is a 6 year long BS degree. And people here act like AP chemistry is some kind phd level qualifying exam.

Kids here can do high level sports and run clubs and volunteer and have job and all that on top of all academics precisely because academics are not that demanding.

And yet here you are in our country, right? I assume if you thought your country’s education system was so great you would raise your kids there.

If we could take our jobs there we probably would. In any case, we did not come here for the AP classes, that's for sure.

[Anonymous]

My kids are seniors now. We moved from Whitman about 18 months ago. If they had stayed there, each would be graduating with 12-14 APs. As it stands, we now live in a wildly underfunded district that simply does not offer them, (nor do they seem to offer ANY honors). So they will each leave with about 7-9. That's including the 2 they are taking outside of school on their own steam.

[Anonymous]

College admissions evaluate your DC based on how they stack up to other kids at your school based on information the college counselors provide about the curriculum at the school. At DC’s school, no one is allowed to take AP anything freshman year, they must take a religion course every year (which eats up a spot that might get filled with an AP class elsewhere), and you cannot take an AP STEM class without having first taken the regular/honors version. Colleges know this about DC’s school so they read their transcript with those parameters in mind. Additionally, it’s important to remember that many top schools do not take AP scores as credits toward a major. The best you can hope for is that you could avoid a large intro level course.

And ask yourself if you think your kid who took AP whatever as a freshman in HS has retained the material well enough to apply that in a higher level class at university four years later. A lot of those APs are simply about inflating grades, egos, and not about truly higher level education. Some schools don’t even require students to take the AP test.