10+ AP classes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people are reporting that their kids are taking 10+, 15, and even 20 AP classes. How is this possible? I am looking at my rising 9th grader's schedule and I don't see how you can pack more than about 10 AP classes? They can only take 1 AP class in 9th grade and you can't take, say, AP Biology, from the getgo.

If you read this the college threads, it's clear the parents are fueling this insanity by putting such an overwhelming emphasis on college. And parents on here seem more focused on college admission, rather than anything that comes after.

College is just a 4-year stop in a hopefully very long life. I'm more focused on setting my kid up for what comes after college rather than getting into a selective one with an impressive logo. If they only can get to an impressive logo college by being on a treadmill where they are overwhelming their schedule with APs, competitive sports and extracurriculars and service jobs they will arrive in a state of anxiety. Their will learn that their life is about impressing people and striving/chasing for the next "impressive goal". They'll assume achieving their high goals equates to happiness and will wonder when they get there why they aren't happy. Why they still feel anxiety and depression and constantly compare themselves to their equally high strung peers.

If it seems crazy to you for a kid fit in 10 APs between sophamore and senior years it is because it is crazy and shouldn't happen outside of some exceptional cases where the kid is very gifted and would not be challenged by regular level classes. But instead we have an arms race of crazed parents leading their kids into a crazed cycle of anxiety and comparison. And I've already seen parents on this thread reply with the may ways their kids have fit in 10-15 APs. Sigh.

Here is the thing... For some kids those classes are not hard at all. I've been a parent for a while now and many times I have met parents complaining how hard some class is while other parents say their kids are barely studying and getting 100%... Some parents complain that everything is watered down and too easy and others complain that kids are studying more than ever and need a tutor for every class. These are kids taking classes together.

Some middle schoolers could take 2-3 AP exams each summer. Now you will say - summer is for fun, they are not supposed to... but some of them want to, and can do it without some insane level of effort.

+1

Find the level right for your kid. For some, it is all the difficult classes then ivies and it still is not risking their mental well being—in fact they thrive

I don't know about the intense ramp up as kid driven. The kids we know who were doing extra APs etc were all driven by parents (magnet school).

In the private schools near us, AP entrance is mostly by teachers who do the approval. But when 1/3 graduate with 10+ that can be considered “normal “. Not parent driven for most, just the normal top tracks for the top cohorts, with the topmost finishing BC calc in 11th and AP physC or Chem(for a few, both) by the end of 11th. No parent pushing, just part of the accepted top path.
What has been fascinating is to learn this path is not common outside of top US high schools yet is very very common for international students from India and china. The US curriculum for tippy-top US students is very common abroad

+1
I had 4 years of chemistry (including 3 years of organic chemistry) in HS. In my country, you needed this if you wanted to study medicine, which is a 6 year long BS degree. And people here act like AP chemistry is some kind phd level qualifying exam.

Kids here can do high level sports and run clubs and volunteer and have job and all that on top of all academics precisely because academics are not that demanding.

What country?

What happens if someone in your country if they decide to pursue in a career in medicine, but they are already 14 years old and out missed the first year of chemistry?

Do your doctors also take 4 years of Biology class in high school?

Yes, typically 4 years of biology as well. It's a little more complicated because you don't choose courses in HS but you choose the type of HS when you start (humanities oriented vs. science oriented). Most HSs are for trades, though.

In any case, there is an entrance exam for medicine - biology and chemistry. You need to do well on these tests to be accepted. What you had in high school is not critical by itself (e.g. you can theoretically get in from humanities HS or even from a 4 year trade school - not sure) but you are unlikely to do well on the exam if you didn't have chemistry and biology for four years.

And you honestly think that is the best path for future doctors and teens?!?!?! To be academically tracked by age 12/13 ? to not be able to switch? And to be under so much pressure as a 12 yo+?

IMO I'd prefer kids enjoy learning and be able to be well rounded. Band, orchestra, photography, theater, along with solid English, FL, History, Psychology and the STEM courses. College is the time to focus/narrow path, not at age 12. I'd also like a "late bloomer" to be able to find there way to something other than trades or humanity if they so desire at age 15/18.

Sure, but if your child does this, they will go to a crappy college with dumb, lazy kids. In terms of stress and competition, US is just as intense, in fact, more intense than those other countries. You need to win national level awards in random hobbies to go to prestigious schools. You can't just "take orchestra, photography...". You need to win first places, sell artwork, play on TV etc etc. Hardly a happy laid back exploration you make it to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people are reporting that their kids are taking 10+, 15, and even 20 AP classes. How is this possible? I am looking at my rising 9th grader's schedule and I don't see how you can pack more than about 10 AP classes? They can only take 1 AP class in 9th grade and you can't take, say, AP Biology, from the getgo.

If you read this the college threads, it's clear the parents are fueling this insanity by putting such an overwhelming emphasis on college. And parents on here seem more focused on college admission, rather than anything that comes after.

College is just a 4-year stop in a hopefully very long life. I'm more focused on setting my kid up for what comes after college rather than getting into a selective one with an impressive logo. If they only can get to an impressive logo college by being on a treadmill where they are overwhelming their schedule with APs, competitive sports and extracurriculars and service jobs they will arrive in a state of anxiety. Their will learn that their life is about impressing people and striving/chasing for the next "impressive goal". They'll assume achieving their high goals equates to happiness and will wonder when they get there why they aren't happy. Why they still feel anxiety and depression and constantly compare themselves to their equally high strung peers.

If it seems crazy to you for a kid fit in 10 APs between sophamore and senior years it is because it is crazy and shouldn't happen outside of some exceptional cases where the kid is very gifted and would not be challenged by regular level classes. But instead we have an arms race of crazed parents leading their kids into a crazed cycle of anxiety and comparison. And I've already seen parents on this thread reply with the may ways their kids have fit in 10-15 APs. Sigh.

Here is the thing... For some kids those classes are not hard at all. I've been a parent for a while now and many times I have met parents complaining how hard some class is while other parents say their kids are barely studying and getting 100%... Some parents complain that everything is watered down and too easy and others complain that kids are studying more than ever and need a tutor for every class. These are kids taking classes together.

Some middle schoolers could take 2-3 AP exams each summer. Now you will say - summer is for fun, they are not supposed to... but some of them want to, and can do it without some insane level of effort.

+1

Find the level right for your kid. For some, it is all the difficult classes then ivies and it still is not risking their mental well being—in fact they thrive

I don't know about the intense ramp up as kid driven. The kids we know who were doing extra APs etc were all driven by parents (magnet school).

In the private schools near us, AP entrance is mostly by teachers who do the approval. But when 1/3 graduate with 10+ that can be considered “normal “. Not parent driven for most, just the normal top tracks for the top cohorts, with the topmost finishing BC calc in 11th and AP physC or Chem(for a few, both) by the end of 11th. No parent pushing, just part of the accepted top path.
What has been fascinating is to learn this path is not common outside of top US high schools yet is very very common for international students from India and china. The US curriculum for tippy-top US students is very common abroad

+1
I had 4 years of chemistry (including 3 years of organic chemistry) in HS. In my country, you needed this if you wanted to study medicine, which is a 6 year long BS degree. And people here act like AP chemistry is some kind phd level qualifying exam.

Kids here can do high level sports and run clubs and volunteer and have job and all that on top of all academics precisely because academics are not that demanding.

What country?

What happens if someone in your country if they decide to pursue in a career in medicine, but they are already 14 years old and out missed the first year of chemistry?

Do your doctors also take 4 years of Biology class in high school?

Yes, typically 4 years of biology as well. It's a little more complicated because you don't choose courses in HS but you choose the type of HS when you start (humanities oriented vs. science oriented). Most HSs are for trades, though.

In any case, there is an entrance exam for medicine - biology and chemistry. You need to do well on these tests to be accepted. What you had in high school is not critical by itself (e.g. you can theoretically get in from humanities HS or even from a 4 year trade school - not sure) but you are unlikely to do well on the exam if you didn't have chemistry and biology for four years.

And you honestly think that is the best path for future doctors and teens?!?!?! To be academically tracked by age 12/13 ? to not be able to switch? And to be under so much pressure as a 12 yo+?

IMO I'd prefer kids enjoy learning and be able to be well rounded. Band, orchestra, photography, theater, along with solid English, FL, History, Psychology and the STEM courses. College is the time to focus/narrow path, not at age 12. I'd also like a "late bloomer" to be able to find there way to something other than trades or humanity if they so desire at age 15/18.

Sure, but if your child does this, they will go to a crappy college with dumb, lazy kids. In terms of stress and competition, US is just as intense, in fact, more intense than those other countries. You need to win national level awards in random hobbies to go to prestigious schools. You can't just "take orchestra, photography...". You need to win first places, sell artwork, play on TV etc etc. Hardly a happy laid back exploration you make it to be.

Said someone with no kids in elite colleges. There really isn’t this much boiler plate expectations outside of online forums. I remember a mom asking a student guide if a student needed IMO medals to get a math major at an Ivy and the student responded with “what’s that?”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people are reporting that their kids are taking 10+, 15, and even 20 AP classes. How is this possible? I am looking at my rising 9th grader's schedule and I don't see how you can pack more than about 10 AP classes? They can only take 1 AP class in 9th grade and you can't take, say, AP Biology, from the getgo.

If you read this the college threads, it's clear the parents are fueling this insanity by putting such an overwhelming emphasis on college. And parents on here seem more focused on college admission, rather than anything that comes after.

College is just a 4-year stop in a hopefully very long life. I'm more focused on setting my kid up for what comes after college rather than getting into a selective one with an impressive logo. If they only can get to an impressive logo college by being on a treadmill where they are overwhelming their schedule with APs, competitive sports and extracurriculars and service jobs they will arrive in a state of anxiety. Their will learn that their life is about impressing people and striving/chasing for the next "impressive goal". They'll assume achieving their high goals equates to happiness and will wonder when they get there why they aren't happy. Why they still feel anxiety and depression and constantly compare themselves to their equally high strung peers.

If it seems crazy to you for a kid fit in 10 APs between sophamore and senior years it is because it is crazy and shouldn't happen outside of some exceptional cases where the kid is very gifted and would not be challenged by regular level classes. But instead we have an arms race of crazed parents leading their kids into a crazed cycle of anxiety and comparison. And I've already seen parents on this thread reply with the may ways their kids have fit in 10-15 APs. Sigh.

Here is the thing... For some kids those classes are not hard at all. I've been a parent for a while now and many times I have met parents complaining how hard some class is while other parents say their kids are barely studying and getting 100%... Some parents complain that everything is watered down and too easy and others complain that kids are studying more than ever and need a tutor for every class. These are kids taking classes together.

Some middle schoolers could take 2-3 AP exams each summer. Now you will say - summer is for fun, they are not supposed to... but some of them want to, and can do it without some insane level of effort.

+1

Find the level right for your kid. For some, it is all the difficult classes then ivies and it still is not risking their mental well being—in fact they thrive

I don't know about the intense ramp up as kid driven. The kids we know who were doing extra APs etc were all driven by parents (magnet school).

In the private schools near us, AP entrance is mostly by teachers who do the approval. But when 1/3 graduate with 10+ that can be considered “normal “. Not parent driven for most, just the normal top tracks for the top cohorts, with the topmost finishing BC calc in 11th and AP physC or Chem(for a few, both) by the end of 11th. No parent pushing, just part of the accepted top path.
What has been fascinating is to learn this path is not common outside of top US high schools yet is very very common for international students from India and china. The US curriculum for tippy-top US students is very common abroad

+1
I had 4 years of chemistry (including 3 years of organic chemistry) in HS. In my country, you needed this if you wanted to study medicine, which is a 6 year long BS degree. And people here act like AP chemistry is some kind phd level qualifying exam.

Kids here can do high level sports and run clubs and volunteer and have job and all that on top of all academics precisely because academics are not that demanding.

What country?

What happens if someone in your country if they decide to pursue in a career in medicine, but they are already 14 years old and out missed the first year of chemistry?

Do your doctors also take 4 years of Biology class in high school?

Yes, typically 4 years of biology as well. It's a little more complicated because you don't choose courses in HS but you choose the type of HS when you start (humanities oriented vs. science oriented). Most HSs are for trades, though.

In any case, there is an entrance exam for medicine - biology and chemistry. You need to do well on these tests to be accepted. What you had in high school is not critical by itself (e.g. you can theoretically get in from humanities HS or even from a 4 year trade school - not sure) but you are unlikely to do well on the exam if you didn't have chemistry and biology for four years.

And you honestly think that is the best path for future doctors and teens?!?!?! To be academically tracked by age 12/13 ? to not be able to switch? And to be under so much pressure as a 12 yo+?

IMO I'd prefer kids enjoy learning and be able to be well rounded. Band, orchestra, photography, theater, along with solid English, FL, History, Psychology and the STEM courses. College is the time to focus/narrow path, not at age 12. I'd also like a "late bloomer" to be able to find there way to something other than trades or humanity if they so desire at age 15/18.

Sure, but if your child does this, they will go to a crappy college with dumb, lazy kids. In terms of stress and competition, US is just as intense, in fact, more intense than those other countries. You need to win national level awards in random hobbies to go to prestigious schools. You can't just "take orchestra, photography...". You need to win first places, sell artwork, play on TV etc etc. Hardly a happy laid back exploration you make it to be.

Said someone with no kids in elite colleges. There really isn’t this much boiler plate expectations outside of online forums. I remember a mom asking a student guide if a student needed IMO medals to get a math major at an Ivy and the student responded with “what’s that?”

Was this student a math major?

[Anonymous]

One of mine took probably 15 or more but everyone in top 10% of gifted track were doing it. Mine had 5s in all, still didn't get into HYSPM even though they were naturally the kind of student these schools claim to love. Imho a lot depends on how you present your package, honesty and nonchalance doesn't go far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people are reporting that their kids are taking 10+, 15, and even 20 AP classes. How is this possible? I am looking at my rising 9th grader's schedule and I don't see how you can pack more than about 10 AP classes? They can only take 1 AP class in 9th grade and you can't take, say, AP Biology, from the getgo.

If you read this the college threads, it's clear the parents are fueling this insanity by putting such an overwhelming emphasis on college. And parents on here seem more focused on college admission, rather than anything that comes after.

College is just a 4-year stop in a hopefully very long life. I'm more focused on setting my kid up for what comes after college rather than getting into a selective one with an impressive logo. If they only can get to an impressive logo college by being on a treadmill where they are overwhelming their schedule with APs, competitive sports and extracurriculars and service jobs they will arrive in a state of anxiety. Their will learn that their life is about impressing people and striving/chasing for the next "impressive goal". They'll assume achieving their high goals equates to happiness and will wonder when they get there why they aren't happy. Why they still feel anxiety and depression and constantly compare themselves to their equally high strung peers.

If it seems crazy to you for a kid fit in 10 APs between sophamore and senior years it is because it is crazy and shouldn't happen outside of some exceptional cases where the kid is very gifted and would not be challenged by regular level classes. But instead we have an arms race of crazed parents leading their kids into a crazed cycle of anxiety and comparison. And I've already seen parents on this thread reply with the may ways their kids have fit in 10-15 APs. Sigh.

Here is the thing... For some kids those classes are not hard at all. I've been a parent for a while now and many times I have met parents complaining how hard some class is while other parents say their kids are barely studying and getting 100%... Some parents complain that everything is watered down and too easy and others complain that kids are studying more than ever and need a tutor for every class. These are kids taking classes together.

Some middle schoolers could take 2-3 AP exams each summer. Now you will say - summer is for fun, they are not supposed to... but some of them want to, and can do it without some insane level of effort.

+1

Find the level right for your kid. For some, it is all the difficult classes then ivies and it still is not risking their mental well being—in fact they thrive

I don't know about the intense ramp up as kid driven. The kids we know who were doing extra APs etc were all driven by parents (magnet school).

In the private schools near us, AP entrance is mostly by teachers who do the approval. But when 1/3 graduate with 10+ that can be considered “normal “. Not parent driven for most, just the normal top tracks for the top cohorts, with the topmost finishing BC calc in 11th and AP physC or Chem(for a few, both) by the end of 11th. No parent pushing, just part of the accepted top path.
What has been fascinating is to learn this path is not common outside of top US high schools yet is very very common for international students from India and china. The US curriculum for tippy-top US students is very common abroad

+1
I had 4 years of chemistry (including 3 years of organic chemistry) in HS. In my country, you needed this if you wanted to study medicine, which is a 6 year long BS degree. And people here act like AP chemistry is some kind phd level qualifying exam.

Kids here can do high level sports and run clubs and volunteer and have job and all that on top of all academics precisely because academics are not that demanding.

What country?

What happens if someone in your country if they decide to pursue in a career in medicine, but they are already 14 years old and out missed the first year of chemistry?

Do your doctors also take 4 years of Biology class in high school?

Yes, typically 4 years of biology as well. It's a little more complicated because you don't choose courses in HS but you choose the type of HS when you start (humanities oriented vs. science oriented). Most HSs are for trades, though.

In any case, there is an entrance exam for medicine - biology and chemistry. You need to do well on these tests to be accepted. What you had in high school is not critical by itself (e.g. you can theoretically get in from humanities HS or even from a 4 year trade school - not sure) but you are unlikely to do well on the exam if you didn't have chemistry and biology for four years.

And you honestly think that is the best path for future doctors and teens?!?!?! To be academically tracked by age 12/13 ? to not be able to switch? And to be under so much pressure as a 12 yo+?

IMO I'd prefer kids enjoy learning and be able to be well rounded. Band, orchestra, photography, theater, along with solid English, FL, History, Psychology and the STEM courses. College is the time to focus/narrow path, not at age 12. I'd also like a "late bloomer" to be able to find there way to something other than trades or humanity if they so desire at age 15/18.

Sure, but if your child does this, they will go to a crappy college with dumb, lazy kids. In terms of stress and competition, US is just as intense, in fact, more intense than those other countries. You need to win national level awards in random hobbies to go to prestigious schools. You can't just "take orchestra, photography...". You need to win first places, sell artwork, play on TV etc etc. Hardly a happy laid back exploration you make it to be.

Said someone with no kids in elite colleges. There really isn’t this much boiler plate expectations outside of online forums. I remember a mom asking a student guide if a student needed IMO medals to get a math major at an Ivy and the student responded with “what’s that?”

Was this student a math major?

Yep, wouldn’t bring it up otherwise

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people are reporting that their kids are taking 10+, 15, and even 20 AP classes. How is this possible? I am looking at my rising 9th grader's schedule and I don't see how you can pack more than about 10 AP classes? They can only take 1 AP class in 9th grade and you can't take, say, AP Biology, from the getgo.

If you read this the college threads, it's clear the parents are fueling this insanity by putting such an overwhelming emphasis on college. And parents on here seem more focused on college admission, rather than anything that comes after.

College is just a 4-year stop in a hopefully very long life. I'm more focused on setting my kid up for what comes after college rather than getting into a selective one with an impressive logo. If they only can get to an impressive logo college by being on a treadmill where they are overwhelming their schedule with APs, competitive sports and extracurriculars and service jobs they will arrive in a state of anxiety. Their will learn that their life is about impressing people and striving/chasing for the next "impressive goal". They'll assume achieving their high goals equates to happiness and will wonder when they get there why they aren't happy. Why they still feel anxiety and depression and constantly compare themselves to their equally high strung peers.

If it seems crazy to you for a kid fit in 10 APs between sophamore and senior years it is because it is crazy and shouldn't happen outside of some exceptional cases where the kid is very gifted and would not be challenged by regular level classes. But instead we have an arms race of crazed parents leading their kids into a crazed cycle of anxiety and comparison. And I've already seen parents on this thread reply with the may ways their kids have fit in 10-15 APs. Sigh.

Here is the thing... For some kids those classes are not hard at all. I've been a parent for a while now and many times I have met parents complaining how hard some class is while other parents say their kids are barely studying and getting 100%... Some parents complain that everything is watered down and too easy and others complain that kids are studying more than ever and need a tutor for every class. These are kids taking classes together.

Some middle schoolers could take 2-3 AP exams each summer. Now you will say - summer is for fun, they are not supposed to... but some of them want to, and can do it without some insane level of effort.

+1

Find the level right for your kid. For some, it is all the difficult classes then ivies and it still is not risking their mental well being—in fact they thrive

I don't know about the intense ramp up as kid driven. The kids we know who were doing extra APs etc were all driven by parents (magnet school).

In the private schools near us, AP entrance is mostly by teachers who do the approval. But when 1/3 graduate with 10+ that can be considered “normal “. Not parent driven for most, just the normal top tracks for the top cohorts, with the topmost finishing BC calc in 11th and AP physC or Chem(for a few, both) by the end of 11th. No parent pushing, just part of the accepted top path.
What has been fascinating is to learn this path is not common outside of top US high schools yet is very very common for international students from India and china. The US curriculum for tippy-top US students is very common abroad

+1
I had 4 years of chemistry (including 3 years of organic chemistry) in HS. In my country, you needed this if you wanted to study medicine, which is a 6 year long BS degree. And people here act like AP chemistry is some kind phd level qualifying exam.

Kids here can do high level sports and run clubs and volunteer and have job and all that on top of all academics precisely because academics are not that demanding.

What country?

What happens if someone in your country if they decide to pursue in a career in medicine, but they are already 14 years old and out missed the first year of chemistry?

Do your doctors also take 4 years of Biology class in high school?

Yes, typically 4 years of biology as well. It's a little more complicated because you don't choose courses in HS but you choose the type of HS when you start (humanities oriented vs. science oriented). Most HSs are for trades, though.

In any case, there is an entrance exam for medicine - biology and chemistry. You need to do well on these tests to be accepted. What you had in high school is not critical by itself (e.g. you can theoretically get in from humanities HS or even from a 4 year trade school - not sure) but you are unlikely to do well on the exam if you didn't have chemistry and biology for four years.

And you honestly think that is the best path for future doctors and teens?!?!?! To be academically tracked by age 12/13 ? to not be able to switch? And to be under so much pressure as a 12 yo+?

IMO I'd prefer kids enjoy learning and be able to be well rounded. Band, orchestra, photography, theater, along with solid English, FL, History, Psychology and the STEM courses. College is the time to focus/narrow path, not at age 12. I'd also like a "late bloomer" to be able to find there way to something other than trades or humanity if they so desire at age 15/18.

Yes. The pressure is not much, honestly. By that age it's clearly who will and who won't benefit from a rigorous program. Me and my friends never felt very stressed academically at the most rigorous program. I mean, it wasn't easy, but nothing outrageous. And we didn't have to volunteer and run clubs and play sports and all that nonsense so that we can impress someone reading our 50 page long applications. It was clear what you need to learn to get to college you want and that was it. You finish HS (senior year is like very other year), then take entrance exams in 2-3 days and that's it. This unpredictable maze of obscure requirements is infinitely more stressful.

I know plenty of kids who were still maturing/finding their path at age 12 (many boys and a few girls). Had my son be "tracked" at age 12, he wouldn't have gone to college.
Yet, he attended a T100 school, graduated in 4 years with a 3.5+ (after being "premed path" freshman year and destroying his gpa) with a finance degree. Started first job 2 weeks after graduation at a great company and excelling.
In your country, he would have not been allowed to develop into the amazing adult he is today.

Also, we don't have obscure requirements. Outside of T25 schools with sub 10% acceptance rates, there are hundreds of top (and a few thousand good) schools a kid can attend. To get into med school, you need the Med school STEM requirements with a great GPA (overall and for the requirements), excellent MCATs, excellent recommendations and volunteer hours/shadowing. It's really quite simple what is required.

Vast majority who go onto become doctors in the USA did not have Organic chem in HS the learn that in college. Yet we train some of the top doctors in the world in the USA.

Also, plenty of kids go onto become doctors who did NOT attend a T25 university for undergrad. Why? Because Chemistry/Phgysics/Biology/Orgo/ A&P are fairly straight forward courses. The material can be taught everywhere---you either know it or you don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of mine took probably 15 or more but everyone in top 10% of gifted track were doing it. Mine had 5s in all, still didn't get into HYSPM even though they were naturally the kind of student these schools claim to love. Imho a lot depends on how you present your package, honesty and nonchalance doesn't go far.

It really has to do with designing a good application with clear values that align with the colleges mission, strategic vision, and admissions qualities. No ones getting into Harvard if their app cannot clearly demonstrate how they are a leader and have potential to lead at the university

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people are reporting that their kids are taking 10+, 15, and even 20 AP classes. How is this possible? I am looking at my rising 9th grader's schedule and I don't see how you can pack more than about 10 AP classes? They can only take 1 AP class in 9th grade and you can't take, say, AP Biology, from the getgo.

If you read this the college threads, it's clear the parents are fueling this insanity by putting such an overwhelming emphasis on college. And parents on here seem more focused on college admission, rather than anything that comes after.

College is just a 4-year stop in a hopefully very long life. I'm more focused on setting my kid up for what comes after college rather than getting into a selective one with an impressive logo. If they only can get to an impressive logo college by being on a treadmill where they are overwhelming their schedule with APs, competitive sports and extracurriculars and service jobs they will arrive in a state of anxiety. Their will learn that their life is about impressing people and striving/chasing for the next "impressive goal". They'll assume achieving their high goals equates to happiness and will wonder when they get there why they aren't happy. Why they still feel anxiety and depression and constantly compare themselves to their equally high strung peers.

If it seems crazy to you for a kid fit in 10 APs between sophamore and senior years it is because it is crazy and shouldn't happen outside of some exceptional cases where the kid is very gifted and would not be challenged by regular level classes. But instead we have an arms race of crazed parents leading their kids into a crazed cycle of anxiety and comparison. And I've already seen parents on this thread reply with the may ways their kids have fit in 10-15 APs. Sigh.

Here is the thing... For some kids those classes are not hard at all. I've been a parent for a while now and many times I have met parents complaining how hard some class is while other parents say their kids are barely studying and getting 100%... Some parents complain that everything is watered down and too easy and others complain that kids are studying more than ever and need a tutor for every class. These are kids taking classes together.

Some middle schoolers could take 2-3 AP exams each summer. Now you will say - summer is for fun, they are not supposed to... but some of them want to, and can do it without some insane level of effort.

+1

Find the level right for your kid. For some, it is all the difficult classes then ivies and it still is not risking their mental well being—in fact they thrive

I don't know about the intense ramp up as kid driven. The kids we know who were doing extra APs etc were all driven by parents (magnet school).

In the private schools near us, AP entrance is mostly by teachers who do the approval. But when 1/3 graduate with 10+ that can be considered “normal “. Not parent driven for most, just the normal top tracks for the top cohorts, with the topmost finishing BC calc in 11th and AP physC or Chem(for a few, both) by the end of 11th. No parent pushing, just part of the accepted top path.
What has been fascinating is to learn this path is not common outside of top US high schools yet is very very common for international students from India and china. The US curriculum for tippy-top US students is very common abroad

+1
I had 4 years of chemistry (including 3 years of organic chemistry) in HS. In my country, you needed this if you wanted to study medicine, which is a 6 year long BS degree. And people here act like AP chemistry is some kind phd level qualifying exam.

Kids here can do high level sports and run clubs and volunteer and have job and all that on top of all academics precisely because academics are not that demanding.

What country?

What happens if someone in your country if they decide to pursue in a career in medicine, but they are already 14 years old and out missed the first year of chemistry?

Do your doctors also take 4 years of Biology class in high school?

Yes, typically 4 years of biology as well. It's a little more complicated because you don't choose courses in HS but you choose the type of HS when you start (humanities oriented vs. science oriented). Most HSs are for trades, though.

In any case, there is an entrance exam for medicine - biology and chemistry. You need to do well on these tests to be accepted. What you had in high school is not critical by itself (e.g. you can theoretically get in from humanities HS or even from a 4 year trade school - not sure) but you are unlikely to do well on the exam if you didn't have chemistry and biology for four years.

And you honestly think that is the best path for future doctors and teens?!?!?! To be academically tracked by age 12/13 ? to not be able to switch? And to be under so much pressure as a 12 yo+?

IMO I'd prefer kids enjoy learning and be able to be well rounded. Band, orchestra, photography, theater, along with solid English, FL, History, Psychology and the STEM courses. College is the time to focus/narrow path, not at age 12. I'd also like a "late bloomer" to be able to find there way to something other than trades or humanity if they so desire at age 15/18.

Sure, but if your child does this, they will go to a crappy college with dumb, lazy kids. In terms of stress and competition, US is just as intense, in fact, more intense than those other countries. You need to win national level awards in random hobbies to go to prestigious schools. You can't just "take orchestra, photography...". You need to win first places, sell artwork, play on TV etc etc. Hardly a happy laid back exploration you make it to be.

Said someone with no kids in elite colleges. There really isn’t this much boiler plate expectations outside of online forums. I remember a mom asking a student guide if a student needed IMO medals to get a math major at an Ivy and the student responded with “what’s that?”

The problem is precisely that there is no "boiler plate expectations". You don't even know what you need to do to qualify. Instead, you are judged holistically - as a person. How cruel, ridiculous and offensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people are reporting that their kids are taking 10+, 15, and even 20 AP classes. How is this possible? I am looking at my rising 9th grader's schedule and I don't see how you can pack more than about 10 AP classes? They can only take 1 AP class in 9th grade and you can't take, say, AP Biology, from the getgo.

If you read this the college threads, it's clear the parents are fueling this insanity by putting such an overwhelming emphasis on college. And parents on here seem more focused on college admission, rather than anything that comes after.

College is just a 4-year stop in a hopefully very long life. I'm more focused on setting my kid up for what comes after college rather than getting into a selective one with an impressive logo. If they only can get to an impressive logo college by being on a treadmill where they are overwhelming their schedule with APs, competitive sports and extracurriculars and service jobs they will arrive in a state of anxiety. Their will learn that their life is about impressing people and striving/chasing for the next "impressive goal". They'll assume achieving their high goals equates to happiness and will wonder when they get there why they aren't happy. Why they still feel anxiety and depression and constantly compare themselves to their equally high strung peers.

If it seems crazy to you for a kid fit in 10 APs between sophamore and senior years it is because it is crazy and shouldn't happen outside of some exceptional cases where the kid is very gifted and would not be challenged by regular level classes. But instead we have an arms race of crazed parents leading their kids into a crazed cycle of anxiety and comparison. And I've already seen parents on this thread reply with the may ways their kids have fit in 10-15 APs. Sigh.

Here is the thing... For some kids those classes are not hard at all. I've been a parent for a while now and many times I have met parents complaining how hard some class is while other parents say their kids are barely studying and getting 100%... Some parents complain that everything is watered down and too easy and others complain that kids are studying more than ever and need a tutor for every class. These are kids taking classes together.

Some middle schoolers could take 2-3 AP exams each summer. Now you will say - summer is for fun, they are not supposed to... but some of them want to, and can do it without some insane level of effort.

+1

Find the level right for your kid. For some, it is all the difficult classes then ivies and it still is not risking their mental well being—in fact they thrive

I don't know about the intense ramp up as kid driven. The kids we know who were doing extra APs etc were all driven by parents (magnet school).

In the private schools near us, AP entrance is mostly by teachers who do the approval. But when 1/3 graduate with 10+ that can be considered “normal “. Not parent driven for most, just the normal top tracks for the top cohorts, with the topmost finishing BC calc in 11th and AP physC or Chem(for a few, both) by the end of 11th. No parent pushing, just part of the accepted top path.
What has been fascinating is to learn this path is not common outside of top US high schools yet is very very common for international students from India and china. The US curriculum for tippy-top US students is very common abroad

+1
I had 4 years of chemistry (including 3 years of organic chemistry) in HS. In my country, you needed this if you wanted to study medicine, which is a 6 year long BS degree. And people here act like AP chemistry is some kind phd level qualifying exam.

Kids here can do high level sports and run clubs and volunteer and have job and all that on top of all academics precisely because academics are not that demanding.

What country?

What happens if someone in your country if they decide to pursue in a career in medicine, but they are already 14 years old and out missed the first year of chemistry?

Do your doctors also take 4 years of Biology class in high school?

Yes, typically 4 years of biology as well. It's a little more complicated because you don't choose courses in HS but you choose the type of HS when you start (humanities oriented vs. science oriented). Most HSs are for trades, though.

In any case, there is an entrance exam for medicine - biology and chemistry. You need to do well on these tests to be accepted. What you had in high school is not critical by itself (e.g. you can theoretically get in from humanities HS or even from a 4 year trade school - not sure) but you are unlikely to do well on the exam if you didn't have chemistry and biology for four years.

And you honestly think that is the best path for future doctors and teens?!?!?! To be academically tracked by age 12/13 ? to not be able to switch? And to be under so much pressure as a 12 yo+?

IMO I'd prefer kids enjoy learning and be able to be well rounded. Band, orchestra, photography, theater, along with solid English, FL, History, Psychology and the STEM courses. College is the time to focus/narrow path, not at age 12. I'd also like a "late bloomer" to be able to find there way to something other than trades or humanity if they so desire at age 15/18.

Sure, but if your child does this, they will go to a crappy college with dumb, lazy kids. In terms of stress and competition, US is just as intense, in fact, more intense than those other countries. You need to win national level awards in random hobbies to go to prestigious schools. You can't just "take orchestra, photography...". You need to win first places, sell artwork, play on TV etc etc. Hardly a happy laid back exploration you make it to be.

Said someone with no kids in elite colleges. There really isn’t this much boiler plate expectations outside of online forums. I remember a mom asking a student guide if a student needed IMO medals to get a math major at an Ivy and the student responded with “what’s that?”

The problem is precisely that there is no "boiler plate expectations". You don't even know what you need to do to qualify. Instead, you are judged holistically - as a person. How cruel, ridiculous and offensive.

I don’t know. I feel the process is pretty objective and have three kids in ivies. It’s only confusing if you are listening to online forums and not listening to your counselor, your AOs, and the schools themselves

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of mine took probably 15 or more but everyone in top 10% of gifted track were doing it. Mine had 5s in all, still didn't get into HYSPM even though they were naturally the kind of student these schools claim to love. Imho a lot depends on how you present your package, honesty and nonchalance doesn't go far.

It really has to do with designing a good application with clear values that align with the colleges mission, strategic vision, and admissions qualities. No ones getting into Harvard if their app cannot clearly demonstrate how they are a leader and have potential to lead at the university

So there are, like, 2000 leaders every year. That's amazing .And the leaders also happen to have 4.0 GPA and 1580+ SAT score.

Btw, I was a TA at Harvard and met a lot of these students. Leaders - maybe. Grinders - definitively.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people are reporting that their kids are taking 10+, 15, and even 20 AP classes. How is this possible? I am looking at my rising 9th grader's schedule and I don't see how you can pack more than about 10 AP classes? They can only take 1 AP class in 9th grade and you can't take, say, AP Biology, from the getgo.

If you read this the college threads, it's clear the parents are fueling this insanity by putting such an overwhelming emphasis on college. And parents on here seem more focused on college admission, rather than anything that comes after.

College is just a 4-year stop in a hopefully very long life. I'm more focused on setting my kid up for what comes after college rather than getting into a selective one with an impressive logo. If they only can get to an impressive logo college by being on a treadmill where they are overwhelming their schedule with APs, competitive sports and extracurriculars and service jobs they will arrive in a state of anxiety. Their will learn that their life is about impressing people and striving/chasing for the next "impressive goal". They'll assume achieving their high goals equates to happiness and will wonder when they get there why they aren't happy. Why they still feel anxiety and depression and constantly compare themselves to their equally high strung peers.

If it seems crazy to you for a kid fit in 10 APs between sophamore and senior years it is because it is crazy and shouldn't happen outside of some exceptional cases where the kid is very gifted and would not be challenged by regular level classes. But instead we have an arms race of crazed parents leading their kids into a crazed cycle of anxiety and comparison. And I've already seen parents on this thread reply with the may ways their kids have fit in 10-15 APs. Sigh.

Here is the thing... For some kids those classes are not hard at all. I've been a parent for a while now and many times I have met parents complaining how hard some class is while other parents say their kids are barely studying and getting 100%... Some parents complain that everything is watered down and too easy and others complain that kids are studying more than ever and need a tutor for every class. These are kids taking classes together.

Some middle schoolers could take 2-3 AP exams each summer. Now you will say - summer is for fun, they are not supposed to... but some of them want to, and can do it without some insane level of effort.

+1

Find the level right for your kid. For some, it is all the difficult classes then ivies and it still is not risking their mental well being—in fact they thrive

I don't know about the intense ramp up as kid driven. The kids we know who were doing extra APs etc were all driven by parents (magnet school).

In the private schools near us, AP entrance is mostly by teachers who do the approval. But when 1/3 graduate with 10+ that can be considered “normal “. Not parent driven for most, just the normal top tracks for the top cohorts, with the topmost finishing BC calc in 11th and AP physC or Chem(for a few, both) by the end of 11th. No parent pushing, just part of the accepted top path.
What has been fascinating is to learn this path is not common outside of top US high schools yet is very very common for international students from India and china. The US curriculum for tippy-top US students is very common abroad

+1
I had 4 years of chemistry (including 3 years of organic chemistry) in HS. In my country, you needed this if you wanted to study medicine, which is a 6 year long BS degree. And people here act like AP chemistry is some kind phd level qualifying exam.

Kids here can do high level sports and run clubs and volunteer and have job and all that on top of all academics precisely because academics are not that demanding.

What country?

What happens if someone in your country if they decide to pursue in a career in medicine, but they are already 14 years old and out missed the first year of chemistry?

Do your doctors also take 4 years of Biology class in high school?

Yes, typically 4 years of biology as well. It's a little more complicated because you don't choose courses in HS but you choose the type of HS when you start (humanities oriented vs. science oriented). Most HSs are for trades, though.

In any case, there is an entrance exam for medicine - biology and chemistry. You need to do well on these tests to be accepted. What you had in high school is not critical by itself (e.g. you can theoretically get in from humanities HS or even from a 4 year trade school - not sure) but you are unlikely to do well on the exam if you didn't have chemistry and biology for four years.

And you honestly think that is the best path for future doctors and teens?!?!?! To be academically tracked by age 12/13 ? to not be able to switch? And to be under so much pressure as a 12 yo+?

IMO I'd prefer kids enjoy learning and be able to be well rounded. Band, orchestra, photography, theater, along with solid English, FL, History, Psychology and the STEM courses. College is the time to focus/narrow path, not at age 12. I'd also like a "late bloomer" to be able to find there way to something other than trades or humanity if they so desire at age 15/18.

Sure, but if your child does this, they will go to a crappy college with dumb, lazy kids. In terms of stress and competition, US is just as intense, in fact, more intense than those other countries. You need to win national level awards in random hobbies to go to prestigious schools. You can't just "take orchestra, photography...". You need to win first places, sell artwork, play on TV etc etc. Hardly a happy laid back exploration you make it to be.

not really. You pick one (theater/band/orch/photography/artsy thing or non-academics area). I have a kid at a Top 40 school who took only AP STEM and AP Psych and skipped the entire Humanities/Social Science APs. Was in band all 4 years, including marching band and all that entails. Skipped AP FL as it didn't work with schedule. And focused on one main EC---dancing at competition level which she loved.
Sure she missed the 2 T30 schools (WL at both), but with 5-7% acceptance rates that just as likely could have happened if she took 5 more APs and made herself crazy overloaded.

So nope, my kid is not attending a "crappy college with dumb kids". Instead she is attending an amazing top school filled with "T20 rejects". Literally all 20+ of her friends were WL at multiple T20 schools, a few even turned down a higher ranked school because this was a better fit.

My other kid (with less drive) attended a T80 school---perfect for them. Plenty of smart, highly motivated kids there as well. Graduated, got an excellent job and excelling at life/adulthood.

It's you who needs to get over the concept that "it's Top 10 College or Bust". Plenty of people (in fact vast majority) excel in life and do not attend a T10/T20 university for undergrad. Look at the C Suite at most companies, and you will see vast majority there did not either. Look around you at your job and there will be many doing the same job who "gasp" did not attend an elite undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of mine took probably 15 or more but everyone in top 10% of gifted track were doing it. Mine had 5s in all, still didn't get into HYSPM even though they were naturally the kind of student these schools claim to love. Imho a lot depends on how you present your package, honesty and nonchalance doesn't go far.

It really has to do with designing a good application with clear values that align with the colleges mission, strategic vision, and admissions qualities. No ones getting into Harvard if their app cannot clearly demonstrate how they are a leader and have potential to lead at the university

So there are, like, 2000 leaders every year. That's amazing .And the leaders also happen to have 4.0 GPA and 1580+ SAT score.

Btw, I was a TA at Harvard and met a lot of these students. Leaders - maybe. Grinders - definitively.

2000 leaders isnt that unreasonable. How many kids are graduating every year? Like 3-4 million. But I’m fine with Harvard grads admitting they aren’t leaders, suits me BOOLA BOOLA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people are reporting that their kids are taking 10+, 15, and even 20 AP classes. How is this possible? I am looking at my rising 9th grader's schedule and I don't see how you can pack more than about 10 AP classes? They can only take 1 AP class in 9th grade and you can't take, say, AP Biology, from the getgo.

If you read this the college threads, it's clear the parents are fueling this insanity by putting such an overwhelming emphasis on college. And parents on here seem more focused on college admission, rather than anything that comes after.

College is just a 4-year stop in a hopefully very long life. I'm more focused on setting my kid up for what comes after college rather than getting into a selective one with an impressive logo. If they only can get to an impressive logo college by being on a treadmill where they are overwhelming their schedule with APs, competitive sports and extracurriculars and service jobs they will arrive in a state of anxiety. Their will learn that their life is about impressing people and striving/chasing for the next "impressive goal". They'll assume achieving their high goals equates to happiness and will wonder when they get there why they aren't happy. Why they still feel anxiety and depression and constantly compare themselves to their equally high strung peers.

If it seems crazy to you for a kid fit in 10 APs between sophamore and senior years it is because it is crazy and shouldn't happen outside of some exceptional cases where the kid is very gifted and would not be challenged by regular level classes. But instead we have an arms race of crazed parents leading their kids into a crazed cycle of anxiety and comparison. And I've already seen parents on this thread reply with the may ways their kids have fit in 10-15 APs. Sigh.

Here is the thing... For some kids those classes are not hard at all. I've been a parent for a while now and many times I have met parents complaining how hard some class is while other parents say their kids are barely studying and getting 100%... Some parents complain that everything is watered down and too easy and others complain that kids are studying more than ever and need a tutor for every class. These are kids taking classes together.

Some middle schoolers could take 2-3 AP exams each summer. Now you will say - summer is for fun, they are not supposed to... but some of them want to, and can do it without some insane level of effort.

+1

Find the level right for your kid. For some, it is all the difficult classes then ivies and it still is not risking their mental well being—in fact they thrive

I don't know about the intense ramp up as kid driven. The kids we know who were doing extra APs etc were all driven by parents (magnet school).

In the private schools near us, AP entrance is mostly by teachers who do the approval. But when 1/3 graduate with 10+ that can be considered “normal “. Not parent driven for most, just the normal top tracks for the top cohorts, with the topmost finishing BC calc in 11th and AP physC or Chem(for a few, both) by the end of 11th. No parent pushing, just part of the accepted top path.
What has been fascinating is to learn this path is not common outside of top US high schools yet is very very common for international students from India and china. The US curriculum for tippy-top US students is very common abroad

+1
I had 4 years of chemistry (including 3 years of organic chemistry) in HS. In my country, you needed this if you wanted to study medicine, which is a 6 year long BS degree. And people here act like AP chemistry is some kind phd level qualifying exam.

Kids here can do high level sports and run clubs and volunteer and have job and all that on top of all academics precisely because academics are not that demanding.

What country?

What happens if someone in your country if they decide to pursue in a career in medicine, but they are already 14 years old and out missed the first year of chemistry?

Do your doctors also take 4 years of Biology class in high school?

Yes, typically 4 years of biology as well. It's a little more complicated because you don't choose courses in HS but you choose the type of HS when you start (humanities oriented vs. science oriented). Most HSs are for trades, though.

In any case, there is an entrance exam for medicine - biology and chemistry. You need to do well on these tests to be accepted. What you had in high school is not critical by itself (e.g. you can theoretically get in from humanities HS or even from a 4 year trade school - not sure) but you are unlikely to do well on the exam if you didn't have chemistry and biology for four years.

And you honestly think that is the best path for future doctors and teens?!?!?! To be academically tracked by age 12/13 ? to not be able to switch? And to be under so much pressure as a 12 yo+?

IMO I'd prefer kids enjoy learning and be able to be well rounded. Band, orchestra, photography, theater, along with solid English, FL, History, Psychology and the STEM courses. College is the time to focus/narrow path, not at age 12. I'd also like a "late bloomer" to be able to find there way to something other than trades or humanity if they so desire at age 15/18.

Sure, but if your child does this, they will go to a crappy college with dumb, lazy kids. In terms of stress and competition, US is just as intense, in fact, more intense than those other countries. You need to win national level awards in random hobbies to go to prestigious schools. You can't just "take orchestra, photography...". You need to win first places, sell artwork, play on TV etc etc. Hardly a happy laid back exploration you make it to be.

Said someone with no kids in elite colleges. There really isn’t this much boiler plate expectations outside of online forums. I remember a mom asking a student guide if a student needed IMO medals to get a math major at an Ivy and the student responded with “what’s that?”

The problem is precisely that there is no "boiler plate expectations". You don't even know what you need to do to qualify. Instead, you are judged holistically - as a person. How cruel, ridiculous and offensive.

I don’t know. I feel the process is pretty objective and have three kids in ivies. It’s only confusing if you are listening to online forums and not listening to your counselor, your AOs, and the schools themselves

It's not confusing at all. It's just ridiculous but you are not seeing it because you are so deeply in it.

The applications themselves ask you for your ECs, your awards, essays, RLs, money. They want to know if your parents went to college and where are you from. You never see the ranking list of those admitted and their scores. You have no idea how you scored on your own application. You can lie about your life, your origins and also, what you intend to study. People literally pretend they want to study classics, invest years of work to make this sham credible, and then study premed.

You have no clue why someone is in and someone else out. You are at a complete mercy of AOs and those are not even professors. In normal countries, it is the faculty that makes the entrance exams because they know what you need to know to thrive in their classes. Not here - you need to make the class special, to be the missing piece. It's not what the school can do for you, but what can you do for the school. Crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people are reporting that their kids are taking 10+, 15, and even 20 AP classes. How is this possible? I am looking at my rising 9th grader's schedule and I don't see how you can pack more than about 10 AP classes? They can only take 1 AP class in 9th grade and you can't take, say, AP Biology, from the getgo.

If you read this the college threads, it's clear the parents are fueling this insanity by putting such an overwhelming emphasis on college. And parents on here seem more focused on college admission, rather than anything that comes after.

College is just a 4-year stop in a hopefully very long life. I'm more focused on setting my kid up for what comes after college rather than getting into a selective one with an impressive logo. If they only can get to an impressive logo college by being on a treadmill where they are overwhelming their schedule with APs, competitive sports and extracurriculars and service jobs they will arrive in a state of anxiety. Their will learn that their life is about impressing people and striving/chasing for the next "impressive goal". They'll assume achieving their high goals equates to happiness and will wonder when they get there why they aren't happy. Why they still feel anxiety and depression and constantly compare themselves to their equally high strung peers.

If it seems crazy to you for a kid fit in 10 APs between sophamore and senior years it is because it is crazy and shouldn't happen outside of some exceptional cases where the kid is very gifted and would not be challenged by regular level classes. But instead we have an arms race of crazed parents leading their kids into a crazed cycle of anxiety and comparison. And I've already seen parents on this thread reply with the may ways their kids have fit in 10-15 APs. Sigh.

Here is the thing... For some kids those classes are not hard at all. I've been a parent for a while now and many times I have met parents complaining how hard some class is while other parents say their kids are barely studying and getting 100%... Some parents complain that everything is watered down and too easy and others complain that kids are studying more than ever and need a tutor for every class. These are kids taking classes together.

Some middle schoolers could take 2-3 AP exams each summer. Now you will say - summer is for fun, they are not supposed to... but some of them want to, and can do it without some insane level of effort.

+1

Find the level right for your kid. For some, it is all the difficult classes then ivies and it still is not risking their mental well being—in fact they thrive

I don't know about the intense ramp up as kid driven. The kids we know who were doing extra APs etc were all driven by parents (magnet school).

In the private schools near us, AP entrance is mostly by teachers who do the approval. But when 1/3 graduate with 10+ that can be considered “normal “. Not parent driven for most, just the normal top tracks for the top cohorts, with the topmost finishing BC calc in 11th and AP physC or Chem(for a few, both) by the end of 11th. No parent pushing, just part of the accepted top path.
What has been fascinating is to learn this path is not common outside of top US high schools yet is very very common for international students from India and china. The US curriculum for tippy-top US students is very common abroad

+1
I had 4 years of chemistry (including 3 years of organic chemistry) in HS. In my country, you needed this if you wanted to study medicine, which is a 6 year long BS degree. And people here act like AP chemistry is some kind phd level qualifying exam.

Kids here can do high level sports and run clubs and volunteer and have job and all that on top of all academics precisely because academics are not that demanding.

What country?

What happens if someone in your country if they decide to pursue in a career in medicine, but they are already 14 years old and out missed the first year of chemistry?

Do your doctors also take 4 years of Biology class in high school?

Yes, typically 4 years of biology as well. It's a little more complicated because you don't choose courses in HS but you choose the type of HS when you start (humanities oriented vs. science oriented). Most HSs are for trades, though.

In any case, there is an entrance exam for medicine - biology and chemistry. You need to do well on these tests to be accepted. What you had in high school is not critical by itself (e.g. you can theoretically get in from humanities HS or even from a 4 year trade school - not sure) but you are unlikely to do well on the exam if you didn't have chemistry and biology for four years.

And you honestly think that is the best path for future doctors and teens?!?!?! To be academically tracked by age 12/13 ? to not be able to switch? And to be under so much pressure as a 12 yo+?

IMO I'd prefer kids enjoy learning and be able to be well rounded. Band, orchestra, photography, theater, along with solid English, FL, History, Psychology and the STEM courses. College is the time to focus/narrow path, not at age 12. I'd also like a "late bloomer" to be able to find there way to something other than trades or humanity if they so desire at age 15/18.

Sure, but if your child does this, they will go to a crappy college with dumb, lazy kids. In terms of stress and competition, US is just as intense, in fact, more intense than those other countries. You need to win national level awards in random hobbies to go to prestigious schools. You can't just "take orchestra, photography...". You need to win first places, sell artwork, play on TV etc etc. Hardly a happy laid back exploration you make it to be.

Said someone with no kids in elite colleges. There really isn’t this much boiler plate expectations outside of online forums. I remember a mom asking a student guide if a student needed IMO medals to get a math major at an Ivy and the student responded with “what’s that?”

The problem is precisely that there is no "boiler plate expectations". You don't even know what you need to do to qualify. Instead, you are judged holistically - as a person. How cruel, ridiculous and offensive.

I don’t know. I feel the process is pretty objective and have three kids in ivies. It’s only confusing if you are listening to online forums and not listening to your counselor, your AOs, and the schools themselves

It's not confusing at all. It's just ridiculous but you are not seeing it because you are so deeply in it.

The applications themselves ask you for your ECs, your awards, essays, RLs, money. They want to know if your parents went to college and where are you from. You never see the ranking list of those admitted and their scores. You have no idea how you scored on your own application. You can lie about your life, your origins and also, what you intend to study. People literally pretend they want to study classics, invest years of work to make this sham credible, and then study premed.

You have no clue why someone is in and someone else out. You are at a complete mercy of AOs and those are not even professors. In normal countries, it is the faculty that makes the entrance exams because they know what you need to know to thrive in their classes. Not here - you need to make the class special, to be the missing piece. It's not what the school can do for you, but what can you do for the school. Crazy.

I have no stake in selling the admissions process to you. I think you’re just obsessed with being a victim and are trying to rush medium talent potentially mediocre kids into a place that doesn’t fit well. Good luck

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of mine took probably 15 or more but everyone in top 10% of gifted track were doing it. Mine had 5s in all, still didn't get into HYSPM even though they were naturally the kind of student these schools claim to love. Imho a lot depends on how you present your package, honesty and nonchalance doesn't go far.

It really has to do with designing a good application with clear values that align with the colleges mission, strategic vision, and admissions qualities. No ones getting into Harvard if their app cannot clearly demonstrate how they are a leader and have potential to lead at the university

So there are, like, 2000 leaders every year. That's amazing .And the leaders also happen to have 4.0 GPA and 1580+ SAT score.

Btw, I was a TA at Harvard and met a lot of these students. Leaders - maybe. Grinders - definitively.

2000 leaders isnt that unreasonable. How many kids are graduating every year? Like 3-4 million. But I’m fine with Harvard grads admitting they aren’t leaders, suits me BOOLA BOOLA

PP said that "they had potential to lead at the university". not that they can lead after school, though we will agree that only a very small fraction of harvard graduates will lead anything.