I’m not a big “don’t recline” person, but …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread and the one from just last week continue to show that there will always be those who recline and those who don’t. Period. Both feel strongly and neither will change their opinion.

Next time you are on a short haul flight at 11am look around. You’ll see that nobody is reclining.

And?

Also, not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread and the one from just last week continue to show that there will always be those who recline and those who don’t. Period. Both feel strongly and neither will change their opinion.

Next time you are on a short haul flight at 11am look around. You’ll see that nobody is reclining.

I just did two flights about 4 hours mid-day. The person in front of me on both flights reclined, and so did I. No big deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m 5’8” with long legs. When the person in front of me reclines, as, yes, they are entitled to do, the seat hits my knees. I don’t recline because I won’t put whoever is behind me through what I have to deal with. I guess I’m just more considerate than some of you. And at 5’8”, which is not that tall, I shouldn’t have to (and can’t afford) comfort plus. My two cents.

See, and I promise I do not mean this as an insult, I think you sound like a martyr who is trying to prove to yourself how superior you are without even being willing to treat yourself as an equal to everyone else who paid for the same basic economy seats. I think it's deeply rooted insecurity.

It sounds like someone who was conditioned to make themselves and their needs and wants disappear. I think it's overcorrection rather than politeness, and it results in people who won't speak up to the person/business when something truly rude or uncalled for happens to them. The people I know like this just complain about things being unfair to them and don't seek appropriate solutions that they are entitled to.

Where on earth did you get that vibe from their post? I am tall with long legs and I knew exactly what they meant. I don’t recline either because of how much it infringes on my space when the person in front of me does. But as long as planes have reclining seats, it is definitely someone’s right to recline.

The two inch poster must not have much experience with someone’s seat in their space making it difficult to reach into your carryon under your seat, or have your tray table right up against you when the seat in front is reclined making it uncomfortable.

Again, it’s the airlines who need to correct this. Not everyone can afford to upgrade on every flight. People aren’t wrong to recline but people are naive if they think it doesn’t negatively impact the person behind them.

I got that vibe from, "I guess I’m just more considerate than some of you," combined with experiencing people I know who say that kind of thing.

To add, it's not my (or that poster's) responsibly to do for someone else what they can do for themselves or to protect them from the consequences of their own choices. They could have upgraded their seat, not traveled, etc.

I think what people call politeness goes too far into martyrdom when you are trying to "fix" things like this for other people by making yourself have a worse time. It's essentially making yourself unequal to them. I'm not saying intentionally be rude. I'm just saying that not everything that affects someone else is by definition rude. Why can't someone recline if that makes their experience better and it just be deemed neutral and not selfish or less polite?

because by making yourself comfortable you are inconveniencing someone else. this is fundamental to sharing public space. you don’t take up more space than you are entitled to pursuant to social norms. social norms are absolutely now that you only recline if it’s a night flight and time to sleep.

Hmm, I have never heard of this "social norm" and probably a lot of other people haven't either... so if it even exists, it is far from "absolute."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread and the one from just last week continue to show that there will always be those who recline and those who don’t. Period. Both feel strongly and neither will change their opinion.

Next time you are on a short haul flight at 11am look around. You’ll see that nobody is reclining.

I don’t recline at all. Just pointing out that no one is going to change the minds of those who do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread and the one from just last week continue to show that there will always be those who recline and those who don’t. Period. Both feel strongly and neither will change their opinion.

Next time you are on a short haul flight at 11am look around. You’ll see that nobody is reclining.

I just did two flights about 4 hours mid-day. The person in front of me on both flights reclined, and so did I. No big deal.

Also, in many hubs, passengers may be boarding from long journeys all over the world, so even though it's 11am to you, they may be exhausted after flying from elsewhere and want to recline to rest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m 5’8” with long legs. When the person in front of me reclines, as, yes, they are entitled to do, the seat hits my knees. I don’t recline because I won’t put whoever is behind me through what I have to deal with. I guess I’m just more considerate than some of you. And at 5’8”, which is not that tall, I shouldn’t have to (and can’t afford) comfort plus. My two cents.

See, and I promise I do not mean this as an insult, I think you sound like a martyr who is trying to prove to yourself how superior you are without even being willing to treat yourself as an equal to everyone else who paid for the same basic economy seats. I think it's deeply rooted insecurity.

It sounds like someone who was conditioned to make themselves and their needs and wants disappear. I think it's overcorrection rather than politeness, and it results in people who won't speak up to the person/business when something truly rude or uncalled for happens to them. The people I know like this just complain about things being unfair to them and don't seek appropriate solutions that they are entitled to.

Where on earth did you get that vibe from their post? I am tall with long legs and I knew exactly what they meant. I don’t recline either because of how much it infringes on my space when the person in front of me does. But as long as planes have reclining seats, it is definitely someone’s right to recline.

The two inch poster must not have much experience with someone’s seat in their space making it difficult to reach into your carryon under your seat, or have your tray table right up against you when the seat in front is reclined making it uncomfortable.

Again, it’s the airlines who need to correct this. Not everyone can afford to upgrade on every flight. People aren’t wrong to recline but people are naive if they think it doesn’t negatively impact the person behind them.

I got that vibe from, "I guess I’m just more considerate than some of you," combined with experiencing people I know who say that kind of thing.

To add, it's not my (or that poster's) responsibly to do for someone else what they can do for themselves or to protect them from the consequences of their own choices. They could have upgraded their seat, not traveled, etc.

I think what people call politeness goes too far into martyrdom when you are trying to "fix" things like this for other people by making yourself have a worse time. It's essentially making yourself unequal to them. I'm not saying intentionally be rude. I'm just saying that not everything that affects someone else is by definition rude. Why can't someone recline if that makes their experience better and it just be deemed neutral and not selfish or less polite?

because by making yourself comfortable you are inconveniencing someone else. this is fundamental to sharing public space. you don’t take up more space than you are entitled to pursuant to social norms. social norms are absolutely now that you only recline if it’s a night flight and time to sleep.

Hmm, I have never heard of this "social norm" and probably a lot of other people haven't either... so if it even exists, it is far from "absolute."

+100

It’s more like “anonymous DCUM martyr social norm”. It’s pretty funny actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m 5’8” with long legs. When the person in front of me reclines, as, yes, they are entitled to do, the seat hits my knees. I don’t recline because I won’t put whoever is behind me through what I have to deal with. I guess I’m just more considerate than some of you. And at 5’8”, which is not that tall, I shouldn’t have to (and can’t afford) comfort plus. My two cents.

See, and I promise I do not mean this as an insult, I think you sound like a martyr who is trying to prove to yourself how superior you are without even being willing to treat yourself as an equal to everyone else who paid for the same basic economy seats. I think it's deeply rooted insecurity.

It sounds like someone who was conditioned to make themselves and their needs and wants disappear. I think it's overcorrection rather than politeness, and it results in people who won't speak up to the person/business when something truly rude or uncalled for happens to them. The people I know like this just complain about things being unfair to them and don't seek appropriate solutions that they are entitled to.

Where on earth did you get that vibe from their post? I am tall with long legs and I knew exactly what they meant. I don’t recline either because of how much it infringes on my space when the person in front of me does. But as long as planes have reclining seats, it is definitely someone’s right to recline.

The two inch poster must not have much experience with someone’s seat in their space making it difficult to reach into your carryon under your seat, or have your tray table right up against you when the seat in front is reclined making it uncomfortable.

Again, it’s the airlines who need to correct this. Not everyone can afford to upgrade on every flight. People aren’t wrong to recline but people are naive if they think it doesn’t negatively impact the person behind them.

I got that vibe from, "I guess I’m just more considerate than some of you," combined with experiencing people I know who say that kind of thing.

To add, it's not my (or that poster's) responsibly to do for someone else what they can do for themselves or to protect them from the consequences of their own choices. They could have upgraded their seat, not traveled, etc.

I think what people call politeness goes too far into martyrdom when you are trying to "fix" things like this for other people by making yourself have a worse time. It's essentially making yourself unequal to them. I'm not saying intentionally be rude. I'm just saying that not everything that affects someone else is by definition rude. Why can't someone recline if that makes their experience better and it just be deemed neutral and not selfish or less polite?

because by making yourself comfortable you are inconveniencing someone else. this is fundamental to sharing public space. you don’t take up more space than you are entitled to pursuant to social norms. social norms are absolutely now that you only recline if it’s a night flight and time to sleep.

Absolutely false. Stop quoting YOUR personal beliefs as "social norms". You can't just make up whatever you want and expect society to abide by it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread and the one from just last week continue to show that there will always be those who recline and those who don’t. Period. Both feel strongly and neither will change their opinion.

Next time you are on a short haul flight at 11am look around. You’ll see that nobody is reclining.

I’m on a 3 hr flight right now. 4 out of the 6 people in the row in front of me are reclined. One of the non recliners is a little kid.

No clue about the rest of the plane because I don’t care one bit whether they recline or not but yes, lots of people recline on short daytime flights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m 5’8” with long legs. When the person in front of me reclines, as, yes, they are entitled to do, the seat hits my knees. I don’t recline because I won’t put whoever is behind me through what I have to deal with. I guess I’m just more considerate than some of you. And at 5’8”, which is not that tall, I shouldn’t have to (and can’t afford) comfort plus. My two cents.

See, and I promise I do not mean this as an insult, I think you sound like a martyr who is trying to prove to yourself how superior you are without even being willing to treat yourself as an equal to everyone else who paid for the same basic economy seats. I think it's deeply rooted insecurity.

It sounds like someone who was conditioned to make themselves and their needs and wants disappear. I think it's overcorrection rather than politeness, and it results in people who won't speak up to the person/business when something truly rude or uncalled for happens to them. The people I know like this just complain about things being unfair to them and don't seek appropriate solutions that they are entitled to.

Where on earth did you get that vibe from their post? I am tall with long legs and I knew exactly what they meant. I don’t recline either because of how much it infringes on my space when the person in front of me does. But as long as planes have reclining seats, it is definitely someone’s right to recline.

The two inch poster must not have much experience with someone’s seat in their space making it difficult to reach into your carryon under your seat, or have your tray table right up against you when the seat in front is reclined making it uncomfortable.

Again, it’s the airlines who need to correct this. Not everyone can afford to upgrade on every flight. People aren’t wrong to recline but people are naive if they think it doesn’t negatively impact the person behind them.

I got that vibe from, "I guess I’m just more considerate than some of you," combined with experiencing people I know who say that kind of thing.

To add, it's not my (or that poster's) responsibly to do for someone else what they can do for themselves or to protect them from the consequences of their own choices. They could have upgraded their seat, not traveled, etc.

I think what people call politeness goes too far into martyrdom when you are trying to "fix" things like this for other people by making yourself have a worse time. It's essentially making yourself unequal to them. I'm not saying intentionally be rude. I'm just saying that not everything that affects someone else is by definition rude. Why can't someone recline if that makes their experience better and it just be deemed neutral and not selfish or less polite?

because by making yourself comfortable you are inconveniencing someone else. this is fundamental to sharing public space. you don’t take up more space than you are entitled to pursuant to social norms. social norms are absolutely now that you only recline if it’s a night flight and time to sleep.

Absolutely false. Stop quoting YOUR personal beliefs as "social norms". You can't just make up whatever you want and expect society to abide by it.

I'm not the PP you are responding to here, but I travel internationally every few weeks and have done for years, and yes, the social norm is very much that you only recline on night flights when it is time to sleep. That poster is not wrong about this.

It isn't a stated rule, but neither is there a rule against belching loudly or putting your bare feet on the seat, or letting your kids watch loud movies on their tablets with no headphones. Yet most of us understand the unspoken etiquette here. You don't, and you are correct that you "have the right" recline whenever you like (just as you have the right to belch in appreciation after your airport meal). But you come off as kind of trashy to most people around you. I guess there will be a few other day/short-haul recliners who back you up, so whatever, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m 5’8” with long legs. When the person in front of me reclines, as, yes, they are entitled to do, the seat hits my knees. I don’t recline because I won’t put whoever is behind me through what I have to deal with. I guess I’m just more considerate than some of you. And at 5’8”, which is not that tall, I shouldn’t have to (and can’t afford) comfort plus. My two cents.

See, and I promise I do not mean this as an insult, I think you sound like a martyr who is trying to prove to yourself how superior you are without even being willing to treat yourself as an equal to everyone else who paid for the same basic economy seats. I think it's deeply rooted insecurity.

It sounds like someone who was conditioned to make themselves and their needs and wants disappear. I think it's overcorrection rather than politeness, and it results in people who won't speak up to the person/business when something truly rude or uncalled for happens to them. The people I know like this just complain about things being unfair to them and don't seek appropriate solutions that they are entitled to.

Where on earth did you get that vibe from their post? I am tall with long legs and I knew exactly what they meant. I don’t recline either because of how much it infringes on my space when the person in front of me does. But as long as planes have reclining seats, it is definitely someone’s right to recline.

The two inch poster must not have much experience with someone’s seat in their space making it difficult to reach into your carryon under your seat, or have your tray table right up against you when the seat in front is reclined making it uncomfortable.

Again, it’s the airlines who need to correct this. Not everyone can afford to upgrade on every flight. People aren’t wrong to recline but people are naive if they think it doesn’t negatively impact the person behind them.

I got that vibe from, "I guess I’m just more considerate than some of you," combined with experiencing people I know who say that kind of thing.

To add, it's not my (or that poster's) responsibly to do for someone else what they can do for themselves or to protect them from the consequences of their own choices. They could have upgraded their seat, not traveled, etc.

I think what people call politeness goes too far into martyrdom when you are trying to "fix" things like this for other people by making yourself have a worse time. It's essentially making yourself unequal to them. I'm not saying intentionally be rude. I'm just saying that not everything that affects someone else is by definition rude. Why can't someone recline if that makes their experience better and it just be deemed neutral and not selfish or less polite?

because by making yourself comfortable you are inconveniencing someone else. this is fundamental to sharing public space. you don’t take up more space than you are entitled to pursuant to social norms. social norms are absolutely now that you only recline if it’s a night flight and time to sleep.

Absolutely false. Stop quoting YOUR personal beliefs as "social norms". You can't just make up whatever you want and expect society to abide by it.

I'm not the PP you are responding to here, but I travel internationally every few weeks and have done for years, and yes, the social norm is very much that you only recline on night flights when it is time to sleep. That poster is not wrong about this.

It isn't a stated rule, but neither is there a rule against belching loudly or putting your bare feet on the seat, or letting your kids watch loud movies on their tablets with no headphones. Yet most of us understand the unspoken etiquette here. You don't, and you are correct that you "have the right" recline whenever you like (just as you have the right to belch in appreciation after your airport meal). But you come off as kind of trashy to most people around you. I guess there will be a few other day/short-haul recliners who back you up, so whatever, right?

You are more than welcome to sit in judgment in your unreclined seat and stew for the entirety of your flight. Guess which one of us is going to have a more pleasant experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:… is it really necessary for an extremely short woman to keep her seat *fully reclined* for the full duration of a 4 hr daytime trip? Come on lady.

Curious as to why she would be less entitled to recline than others. You don't know anything about what back problem she suffers from, or really, anything else about her.

She can recline all she wants, but it's still low class behavior.

and self righteous behavior is complaining about people doing something that she's entitled to that you don't like

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m 5’8” with long legs. When the person in front of me reclines, as, yes, they are entitled to do, the seat hits my knees. I don’t recline because I won’t put whoever is behind me through what I have to deal with. I guess I’m just more considerate than some of you. And at 5’8”, which is not that tall, I shouldn’t have to (and can’t afford) comfort plus. My two cents.

See, and I promise I do not mean this as an insult, I think you sound like a martyr who is trying to prove to yourself how superior you are without even being willing to treat yourself as an equal to everyone else who paid for the same basic economy seats. I think it's deeply rooted insecurity.

It sounds like someone who was conditioned to make themselves and their needs and wants disappear. I think it's overcorrection rather than politeness, and it results in people who won't speak up to the person/business when something truly rude or uncalled for happens to them. The people I know like this just complain about things being unfair to them and don't seek appropriate solutions that they are entitled to.

Where on earth did you get that vibe from their post? I am tall with long legs and I knew exactly what they meant. I don’t recline either because of how much it infringes on my space when the person in front of me does. But as long as planes have reclining seats, it is definitely someone’s right to recline.

The two inch poster must not have much experience with someone’s seat in their space making it difficult to reach into your carryon under your seat, or have your tray table right up against you when the seat in front is reclined making it uncomfortable.

Again, it’s the airlines who need to correct this. Not everyone can afford to upgrade on every flight. People aren’t wrong to recline but people are naive if they think it doesn’t negatively impact the person behind them.

I got that vibe from, "I guess I’m just more considerate than some of you," combined with experiencing people I know who say that kind of thing.

To add, it's not my (or that poster's) responsibly to do for someone else what they can do for themselves or to protect them from the consequences of their own choices. They could have upgraded their seat, not traveled, etc.

I think what people call politeness goes too far into martyrdom when you are trying to "fix" things like this for other people by making yourself have a worse time. It's essentially making yourself unequal to them. I'm not saying intentionally be rude. I'm just saying that not everything that affects someone else is by definition rude. Why can't someone recline if that makes their experience better and it just be deemed neutral and not selfish or less polite?

because by making yourself comfortable you are inconveniencing someone else. this is fundamental to sharing public space. you don’t take up more space than you are entitled to pursuant to social norms. social norms are absolutely now that you only recline if it’s a night flight and time to sleep.

This social norm as you call it is entirely constructed in your head. The seat reclines. Therefore I am entitled to that space. You can complain if I try to sit on your lap. That would be a no, no.

NP.

There are plenty of things that we're entitled to, but nonetheless should not do.

I can sit in the seat immediately next to you on an empty Metro car, but won't.

I can swear in front of your children, but won't.

I can pull into a parking space that you're waiting for, but won't.

Entitlement should always be balanced by consideration.

Life's a lot better for everyone that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:… is it really necessary for an extremely short woman to keep her seat *fully reclined* for the full duration of a 4 hr daytime trip? Come on lady.

Curious as to why she would be less entitled to recline than others. You don't know anything about what back problem she suffers from, or really, anything else about her.

She can recline all she wants, but it's still low class behavior.

and self righteous behavior is complaining about people doing something that she's entitled to that you don't like

DP.

So, I'm entitled to tell you to eff off and you complaining about that would be self righteous?

Interesting theory of life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:… is it really necessary for an extremely short woman to keep her seat *fully reclined* for the full duration of a 4 hr daytime trip? Come on lady.

Curious as to why she would be less entitled to recline than others. You don't know anything about what back problem she suffers from, or really, anything else about her.

She can recline all she wants, but it's still low class behavior.

and self righteous behavior is complaining about people doing something that she's entitled to that you don't like

DP.

So, I'm entitled to tell you to eff off and you complaining about that would be self righteous?

Interesting theory of life.

I don’t understand people comparing reclining a seat to telling someone off. Do you really not see the difference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m 5’8” with long legs. When the person in front of me reclines, as, yes, they are entitled to do, the seat hits my knees. I don’t recline because I won’t put whoever is behind me through what I have to deal with. I guess I’m just more considerate than some of you. And at 5’8”, which is not that tall, I shouldn’t have to (and can’t afford) comfort plus. My two cents.

See, and I promise I do not mean this as an insult, I think you sound like a martyr who is trying to prove to yourself how superior you are without even being willing to treat yourself as an equal to everyone else who paid for the same basic economy seats. I think it's deeply rooted insecurity.

It sounds like someone who was conditioned to make themselves and their needs and wants disappear. I think it's overcorrection rather than politeness, and it results in people who won't speak up to the person/business when something truly rude or uncalled for happens to them. The people I know like this just complain about things being unfair to them and don't seek appropriate solutions that they are entitled to.

Where on earth did you get that vibe from their post? I am tall with long legs and I knew exactly what they meant. I don’t recline either because of how much it infringes on my space when the person in front of me does. But as long as planes have reclining seats, it is definitely someone’s right to recline.

The two inch poster must not have much experience with someone’s seat in their space making it difficult to reach into your carryon under your seat, or have your tray table right up against you when the seat in front is reclined making it uncomfortable.

Again, it’s the airlines who need to correct this. Not everyone can afford to upgrade on every flight. People aren’t wrong to recline but people are naive if they think it doesn’t negatively impact the person behind them.

I got that vibe from, "I guess I’m just more considerate than some of you," combined with experiencing people I know who say that kind of thing.

To add, it's not my (or that poster's) responsibly to do for someone else what they can do for themselves or to protect them from the consequences of their own choices. They could have upgraded their seat, not traveled, etc.

I think what people call politeness goes too far into martyrdom when you are trying to "fix" things like this for other people by making yourself have a worse time. It's essentially making yourself unequal to them. I'm not saying intentionally be rude. I'm just saying that not everything that affects someone else is by definition rude. Why can't someone recline if that makes their experience better and it just be deemed neutral and not selfish or less polite?

because by making yourself comfortable you are inconveniencing someone else. this is fundamental to sharing public space. you don’t take up more space than you are entitled to pursuant to social norms. social norms are absolutely now that you only recline if it’s a night flight and time to sleep.

This social norm as you call it is entirely constructed in your head. The seat reclines. Therefore I am entitled to that space. You can complain if I try to sit on your lap. That would be a no, no.

NP.

There are plenty of things that we're entitled to, but nonetheless should not do.

I can sit in the seat immediately next to you on an empty Metro car, but won't.

I can swear in front of your children, but won't.

I can pull into a parking space that you're waiting for, but won't.

Entitlement should always be balanced by consideration.

Life's a lot better for everyone that way.

None of the examples you listed are even remotely comparable to reclining your seat two inches. Get a grip.