BOE reconsidering the Virtual Academy, Leader in Me, and Innovative School Year Calendar

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:From what I recall the virtual academy services about 1,800 students. That is pretty large, given there are schools with just three hundred or less in the district. The problem is that federal funds have essentially run out. I would prefer that it continue, as there are students who clearly thrive there.

Beyond that I don't think that the system would actually benefit from the virtual academy staff coming back, in-person. Some, because of health reasons, can't. They would probably quit or retire. Others may be problematic, as there are one or two who were transferred there after being troublesome in their own schools. (Harassment of staff comes to mind.)

And then there is the issue of redistributing students, which might push class capacity in some schools. So there are a lot of factors to consider.

No, virtual academy is less than 900 students, with enrollment dropping rapidly. Spread across all grades and schools, that's miniscule. VA students would simply get absorbed back into their home schools. The marginal cost of bringing these students back into schools is almost nothing. Getting rid of VA would save a ton of money.

Or, get rid of other programs and use the real student funding to pay for the va vs giving it to the home schools that are not providing anything to the students.

So, what programs do you want to get rid of that collectively cost the same amount as VA?

We can cut central office staff, stop finding nonprofits that don’t benefit students, like the kid museum. The kid museum gets mil,ions and dies very little for mcps kids. They charge for field trips. https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/OMB/Resources/Files/omb/pdfs/fy23/ciprec/P721903.pdf

I'd like to see the kid museum funding reduced and give the teachers money for supplies. Why are we being asked to donate paper? Why can't MCPS provide this?!

Dumb question and I don’t have time to search- how much exactly is MCPS giving to the kids museum annually?

They gave a $2.37 million contract to Kid Museum in September 2022. That appears to be a multi-year award. The last extension of the original 2017 contract was in 2021 for $1.6 million.

That's significantly cheaper than VA. VA's proposed budget for FY25 is $4.3 million. But they're playing some sort of funny accounting game where they exclude the cost of employee benefits from the cost of the VA program, so it's actually quite a bit more than that.

You are forgetting, 2023, 2024, 2025 funding as well. And, it serves no function for MCPS other than an BOE member's wife's pet project. The majority of the schools have to pay a field trip fee and most schools are not doing field trips there and if they are its once per school year.

Again, the simple solution is to stop funding those students at their home schools, who provide nothing to the students, and use the allocated money per student to go to the MVA instead. Right now they are double funding each student by paying for them to be at the home school and at the VA. And, $4.3 million is nothing for MCPS or what it costs to run one in person school.

There's no indication MCPS gave the Kid Museum additional funding in 2023. It looks like the 2022 contract was multi-year.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I also wonder if there would be much cost savings closing the virtual academy. After all, there is no physical building, or anything associated with that. The technology is already baked in, in that all MCPS students have access to cheomebooks and zoom. It may actually be cheaper, in some ways.

It is cheaper when you look at the numbers so this makes no sense.

It's not cheaper. Schools are roughly fixed costs in this case. You can absorb VA students back into homeschool classrooms without needing to build more schools. And, unless there's a concentrated group of VA students in a particular place and grade, you wouldn't even need to bring in another teacher to accommodate them. VA simply adds additional costs beyond what we already need to spend on classrooms.

Of course it’s cheaper to educate virtually. And, it helps with overcrowding. The issue is they are not giving the student money to the va, they are giving it to the homeschool and paying for the va out of different funds. They need to use that students allocated money and give it to the va. Most Va kids never set foot in their home schools so them getting funding for these kids is wrong.

The question isn't whether it is cheaper to teach kids virtually than in-person. It is whether the cost of VA is less than the marginal cost of moving VA kids back into schools. And it's not. It would be cheaper to teach those 900 kids in their homeschools than to continue to operate a special program for them.

No, the issue is how they are funding it. They need to change the funding. They were funding it out of covid money. The idea was that the home schools would provide sports, after school clubs, music, theater, and field trips as well as provide dances, graduations and all the stuff in person kids get. However, only a select group of schools allow virtual students to participate and many of the VA students have never set foot in their home schools (especially those who refuse testing). So, those homeschools are getting funding for students they are not serving. So, take that funding that you are giving to the home schools and fund the VA with that money, problem solved. Give virtual kids the same opportunities for clubs, sports and other things through the virtual academy and fund things like graduation. The cost savings given how much MCPS spends on other things is very minimal. And, it serves an important function for some kind who are not well served in person or cannot be in person or just learn better virtually.

Look, we get you don't like virtual. We get that you cannot stand having your kids home and prefer someone else deal with them the bulk of the day. But, what does't work for you and your family works for other families.

And, part of the mass exit is because of the social and other things promised that MCPS didn't deliver on so many families felt forced to send their children back in person to get those things met.

Or, MCPS should give families stipends to do the activities outside MCPS if they are not going to have equity and give the VA kids the same as in person.

Didn’t it come about because of the pandemic? What did your kids do before then? The only families I knew in it participated because of health concerns related to Covid. Even they are back in person now.

Using the federal money to provide virtual learning during a public health crisis made complete sense. Whether it makes sense long term, and where to pull money from once federal funds are out, is more debatable. I’m glad MCPS is evaluating whether it makes sense to continue. I get that you’re annoyed that others have different opinions than you, but as taxpayers, we are all entitled to our opinions on how the money is spent.

How is money spent? MCPS spends 100's of millions without BOE approval or notice. Why isn't the BOE looking into that spending? What about the State money they just squandered? Where is the hearing on those millions?

They should. Email to ask. Email the candidates too.

[Anonymous]

MCPS should be not be providing any funding to Kid Museum. MCPS is essentially outsourcing Technology Education. Do they do that for any other subject? With the money given to Kid Museum, MCPS could equip the 40 middle schools with the same low level machines and provide professional development to staff to teach the same projects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS should be not be providing any funding to Kid Museum. MCPS is essentially outsourcing Technology Education. Do they do that for any other subject? With the money given to Kid Museum, MCPS could equip the 40 middle schools with the same low level machines and provide professional development to staff to teach the same projects.

And, if they followed your proposal the kids would get far more interactions with the machines than they would a one-time visit from the kid museum (though only a handful of schools go). However, the BOE is entwined with the Kid Museum and they take care of their own.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone know what kinds of families comprise the bulk of virtual academy? I don’t see the value of it because it seems like a pretty niche program that started during the pandemic and was a nice to have afterwards. But the supporters here are so exercised about keeping it that it tells me that perhaps it’s more than that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Its amazing what they can waste money on and then choose to get rid of the VA that benefits some students.

There are very few students left in virtual. It would be far more efficient to have a state-wide virtual option.

+1. But the VA proponents always come up with 100 reasons why that isn't a good idea.

We do not have an educational services at the state level so, if they get rid of it, there will be no virtual program. Plenty of other things to cut, starting with the kid museum. Why is mcps funding nonprofits.

Maybe if more parents were advocating for it, they would.

The state is not in the education business. the county is. No one is going to advocate it for the state level but you. So, please go ahead.

Plenty of states offer virtual programs at the state level. If you want to keep putting all your eggs in the MCPS basket, go ahead, maybe your kids are close to graduating and it doesn't matter for you. But for the sake of younger kids, if you were truly invested in a long-term virtual program I would not depend on MCPS to provide it.

That's fine what other states do but their school setup is much different than ours so it's a moot point. I don't expect anything from MCPS. The problem is there isn't a private equivalent except for a few programs that are super competitive like Stanford, and those aren't MCPS-approved for graduation. The programs they have for virtual are homeschooling programs, which is fine for younger kids but not for kids in HS with higher-level courses. I could easily homeschool for elementary but not for MS or HS. And, Stanford is really expensive, so not an option for us.

If you don't like virtual, fine, don't send your kids but why block other families from using it if it works for their families?

Not PP but I wonder if MCPS would expand what it would approve for graduation if they did away with the county VA? My cousin’s DC in Florida was literally taking AP classes online when undergoing cancel treatments, there must be more options out there than what MCPS accepts right now.

+1 to getting rid of kid museum funding! What a waste.

FL uses a different model- it’s a statewide program. So they can offer more classes. There has been more of a push for VA students to enroll in MC classes instead of AP (not necessarily a bad thing).

They are pushing all HS kids to take classes at MC and stopped offering higher level classes at some schools as well as APs. However, in terms of equity, its not fair when juniors may or may not have a license, and it's unreasonable to expect parents to provide cars to juniors and seniors when it could be a very long commute on public transportation, and that assumes there is public transportation nearby. There are some virtual classes but the times are really bad and often after school hours which prohibits kids from either doing the class or after-school activities or jobs.

VA given the number of students in MCPS doesn't need a state model, they just need to offer classes to in person students. FL is set up very differently than we are.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I also wonder if there would be much cost savings closing the virtual academy. After all, there is no physical building, or anything associated with that. The technology is already baked in, in that all MCPS students have access to cheomebooks and zoom. It may actually be cheaper, in some ways.

It is cheaper when you look at the numbers so this makes no sense.

It's not cheaper. Schools are roughly fixed costs in this case. You can absorb VA students back into homeschool classrooms without needing to build more schools. And, unless there's a concentrated group of VA students in a particular place and grade, you wouldn't even need to bring in another teacher to accommodate them. VA simply adds additional costs beyond what we already need to spend on classrooms.

Of course it’s cheaper to educate virtually. And, it helps with overcrowding. The issue is they are not giving the student money to the va, they are giving it to the homeschool and paying for the va out of different funds. They need to use that students allocated money and give it to the va. Most Va kids never set foot in their home schools so them getting funding for these kids is wrong.

The question isn't whether it is cheaper to teach kids virtually than in-person. It is whether the cost of VA is less than the marginal cost of moving VA kids back into schools. And it's not. It would be cheaper to teach those 900 kids in their homeschools than to continue to operate a special program for them.

No, the issue is how they are funding it. They need to change the funding. They were funding it out of covid money. The idea was that the home schools would provide sports, after school clubs, music, theater, and field trips as well as provide dances, graduations and all the stuff in person kids get. However, only a select group of schools allow virtual students to participate and many of the VA students have never set foot in their home schools (especially those who refuse testing). So, those homeschools are getting funding for students they are not serving. So, take that funding that you are giving to the home schools and fund the VA with that money, problem solved. Give virtual kids the same opportunities for clubs, sports and other things through the virtual academy and fund things like graduation. The cost savings given how much MCPS spends on other things is very minimal. And, it serves an important function for some kind who are not well served in person or cannot be in person or just learn better virtually.

Look, we get you don't like virtual. We get that you cannot stand having your kids home and prefer someone else deal with them the bulk of the day. But, what does't work for you and your family works for other families.

And, part of the mass exit is because of the social and other things promised that MCPS didn't deliver on so many families felt forced to send their children back in person to get those things met.

Or, MCPS should give families stipends to do the activities outside MCPS if they are not going to have equity and give the VA kids the same as in person.

Didn’t it come about because of the pandemic? What did your kids do before then? The only families I knew in it participated because of health concerns related to Covid. Even they are back in person now.

Using the federal money to provide virtual learning during a public health crisis made complete sense. Whether it makes sense long term, and where to pull money from once federal funds are out, is more debatable. I’m glad MCPS is evaluating whether it makes sense to continue. I get that you’re annoyed that others have different opinions than you, but as taxpayers, we are all entitled to our opinions on how the money is spent.

So, if we are all entitled to how money is spent, just like you don't feel our kids should be virtual, maybe we feel that all kids should be virtual. That would cut down on lots of MCPS expenses and then they can just focus on education. See how that works. You are blessed if things are going well in person for you. There are many reasons why families choose virtual and no one owes you an explanation as to why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The resident virtual school lover must be losing her mind over the prospect of letting her kids leave her sight.

There's always homeschool!

Oh my... you simply don't get it. Must be nice to be self-absorbed and only care about your needs vs. the needs of others.

My kid also has some needs that public schools can't seem to fill, so we pay for a private school. Maybe you need to find a virtual school platform and pay for it yourself. Taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for your conveniences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The resident virtual school lover must be losing her mind over the prospect of letting her kids leave her sight.

There's always homeschool!

Oh my... you simply don't get it. Must be nice to be self-absorbed and only care about your needs vs. the needs of others.

My kid also has some needs that public schools can't seem to fill, so we pay for a private school. Maybe you need to find a virtual school platform and pay for it yourself. Taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for your conveniences.

Virtual public school options existed way before the pandemic, especially in large districts. In a district as large as MCPS, it should definitely continue to be an option. It could potentially grow to help more students for half day schedules, unique electives and night classes. Plenty of other fat to cut from the budget, especially at Hungerford/Gude.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I also wonder if there would be much cost savings closing the virtual academy. After all, there is no physical building, or anything associated with that. The technology is already baked in, in that all MCPS students have access to cheomebooks and zoom. It may actually be cheaper, in some ways.

It is cheaper when you look at the numbers so this makes no sense.

It's not cheaper. Schools are roughly fixed costs in this case. You can absorb VA students back into homeschool classrooms without needing to build more schools. And, unless there's a concentrated group of VA students in a particular place and grade, you wouldn't even need to bring in another teacher to accommodate them. VA simply adds additional costs beyond what we already need to spend on classrooms.

Of course it’s cheaper to educate virtually. And, it helps with overcrowding. The issue is they are not giving the student money to the va, they are giving it to the homeschool and paying for the va out of different funds. They need to use that students allocated money and give it to the va. Most Va kids never set foot in their home schools so them getting funding for these kids is wrong.

The question isn't whether it is cheaper to teach kids virtually than in-person. It is whether the cost of VA is less than the marginal cost of moving VA kids back into schools. And it's not. It would be cheaper to teach those 900 kids in their homeschools than to continue to operate a special program for them.

No, the issue is how they are funding it. They need to change the funding. They were funding it out of covid money. The idea was that the home schools would provide sports, after school clubs, music, theater, and field trips as well as provide dances, graduations and all the stuff in person kids get. However, only a select group of schools allow virtual students to participate and many of the VA students have never set foot in their home schools (especially those who refuse testing). So, those homeschools are getting funding for students they are not serving. So, take that funding that you are giving to the home schools and fund the VA with that money, problem solved. Give virtual kids the same opportunities for clubs, sports and other things through the virtual academy and fund things like graduation. The cost savings given how much MCPS spends on other things is very minimal. And, it serves an important function for some kind who are not well served in person or cannot be in person or just learn better virtually.

Look, we get you don't like virtual. We get that you cannot stand having your kids home and prefer someone else deal with them the bulk of the day. But, what does't work for you and your family works for other families.

And, part of the mass exit is because of the social and other things promised that MCPS didn't deliver on so many families felt forced to send their children back in person to get those things met.

Or, MCPS should give families stipends to do the activities outside MCPS if they are not going to have equity and give the VA kids the same as in person.

Didn’t it come about because of the pandemic? What did your kids do before then? The only families I knew in it participated because of health concerns related to Covid. Even they are back in person now.

Using the federal money to provide virtual learning during a public health crisis made complete sense. Whether it makes sense long term, and where to pull money from once federal funds are out, is more debatable. I’m glad MCPS is evaluating whether it makes sense to continue. I get that you’re annoyed that others have different opinions than you, but as taxpayers, we are all entitled to our opinions on how the money is spent.

So, if we are all entitled to how money is spent, just like you don't feel our kids should be virtual, maybe we feel that all kids should be virtual. That would cut down on lots of MCPS expenses and then they can just focus on education. See how that works. You are blessed if things are going well in person for you. There are many reasons why families choose virtual and no one owes you an explanation as to why.

You are entitled to advocate for virtual school and the rest of us are entitled to advocate to get rid of it. Who knows if they will keep it or get rid of it. For now it is a black hole - we have no idea if kids are learning and whether it is an adequate substitute for in-person learning or not

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its amazing what they can waste money on and then choose to get rid of the VA that benefits some students.

There are very few students left in virtual. It would be far more efficient to have a state-wide virtual option.

+1. But the VA proponents always come up with 100 reasons why that isn't a good idea.

We do not have an educational services at the state level so, if they get rid of it, there will be no virtual program. Plenty of other things to cut, starting with the kid museum. Why is mcps funding nonprofits.

Maybe if more parents were advocating for it, they would.

The state is not in the education business. the county is. No one is going to advocate it for the state level but you. So, please go ahead.

Please Google state run virtual public education. Many states offer this so yes access to virtual public education very much is a state issue. States have the ability and the funding control to run this so all Maryland students could have access to a free virtual option. MCPS was shortsighted to try and run their own versus lobby Maryland to run its own as other states already do.

The Virtual Academy in MCPS was funded my ESSR funds. There are no longer ESSR funds since that program has ended. This means MCPS either has to discontinue the programs it ran using ESSR funds or find new funds. To find new funds it must cut other programs. The money that comes from the state per child is not enough to fund virtual academy so it is not a case of simply using the per child funds to run the VA. Also keep in mind the 40million deficit in the employee plan that has to be paid.

MCPS spent poorly and now must make lots of cuts. Hopefully they downsize central office, stop funding one offs — like the museum,— cut programs not enough students use to justify the huge cost like LIM, cut programs that are expensive and do not show results like year round school, and put more money toward paying teachers, paraeducators and other staff who work directly with students a competitive wage to best attract talent. Until MCPS can do the basics they need to stop experimenting with niche costly programs.

[Anonymous]

I want to know why they are getting rid of GoGuardian software. I use this SO MUCH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also wonder if there would be much cost savings closing the virtual academy. After all, there is no physical building, or anything associated with that. The technology is already baked in, in that all MCPS students have access to cheomebooks and zoom. It may actually be cheaper, in some ways.

It is cheaper when you look at the numbers so this makes no sense.

It's not cheaper. Schools are roughly fixed costs in this case. You can absorb VA students back into homeschool classrooms without needing to build more schools. And, unless there's a concentrated group of VA students in a particular place and grade, you wouldn't even need to bring in another teacher to accommodate them. VA simply adds additional costs beyond what we already need to spend on classrooms.

Of course it’s cheaper to educate virtually. And, it helps with overcrowding. The issue is they are not giving the student money to the va, they are giving it to the homeschool and paying for the va out of different funds. They need to use that students allocated money and give it to the va. Most Va kids never set foot in their home schools so them getting funding for these kids is wrong.

The question isn't whether it is cheaper to teach kids virtually than in-person. It is whether the cost of VA is less than the marginal cost of moving VA kids back into schools. And it's not. It would be cheaper to teach those 900 kids in their homeschools than to continue to operate a special program for them.

No, the issue is how they are funding it. They need to change the funding. They were funding it out of covid money. The idea was that the home schools would provide sports, after school clubs, music, theater, and field trips as well as provide dances, graduations and all the stuff in person kids get. However, only a select group of schools allow virtual students to participate and many of the VA students have never set foot in their home schools (especially those who refuse testing). So, those homeschools are getting funding for students they are not serving. So, take that funding that you are giving to the home schools and fund the VA with that money, problem solved. Give virtual kids the same opportunities for clubs, sports and other things through the virtual academy and fund things like graduation. The cost savings given how much MCPS spends on other things is very minimal. And, it serves an important function for some kind who are not well served in person or cannot be in person or just learn better virtually.

Look, we get you don't like virtual. We get that you cannot stand having your kids home and prefer someone else deal with them the bulk of the day. But, what does't work for you and your family works for other families.

And, part of the mass exit is because of the social and other things promised that MCPS didn't deliver on so many families felt forced to send their children back in person to get those things met.

Or, MCPS should give families stipends to do the activities outside MCPS if they are not going to have equity and give the VA kids the same as in person.

Didn’t it come about because of the pandemic? What did your kids do before then? The only families I knew in it participated because of health concerns related to Covid. Even they are back in person now.

Using the federal money to provide virtual learning during a public health crisis made complete sense. Whether it makes sense long term, and where to pull money from once federal funds are out, is more debatable. I’m glad MCPS is evaluating whether it makes sense to continue. I get that you’re annoyed that others have different opinions than you, but as taxpayers, we are all entitled to our opinions on how the money is spent.

So, if we are all entitled to how money is spent, just like you don't feel our kids should be virtual, maybe we feel that all kids should be virtual. That would cut down on lots of MCPS expenses and then they can just focus on education. See how that works. You are blessed if things are going well in person for you. There are many reasons why families choose virtual and no one owes you an explanation as to why.

You are entitled to advocate for virtual school and the rest of us are entitled to advocate to get rid of it. Who knows if they will keep it or get rid of it. For now it is a black hole - we have no idea if kids are learning and whether it is an adequate substitute for in-person learning or not

As compared to in person school? Talk about a black hole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS should be not be providing any funding to Kid Museum. MCPS is essentially outsourcing Technology Education. Do they do that for any other subject? With the money given to Kid Museum, MCPS could equip the 40 middle schools with the same low level machines and provide professional development to staff to teach the same projects.

They could, and maybe they should, but it would cost more money than we're sending to Kids Museum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also wonder if there would be much cost savings closing the virtual academy. After all, there is no physical building, or anything associated with that. The technology is already baked in, in that all MCPS students have access to cheomebooks and zoom. It may actually be cheaper, in some ways.

It is cheaper when you look at the numbers so this makes no sense.

It's not cheaper. Schools are roughly fixed costs in this case. You can absorb VA students back into homeschool classrooms without needing to build more schools. And, unless there's a concentrated group of VA students in a particular place and grade, you wouldn't even need to bring in another teacher to accommodate them. VA simply adds additional costs beyond what we already need to spend on classrooms.

Of course it’s cheaper to educate virtually. And, it helps with overcrowding. The issue is they are not giving the student money to the va, they are giving it to the homeschool and paying for the va out of different funds. They need to use that students allocated money and give it to the va. Most Va kids never set foot in their home schools so them getting funding for these kids is wrong.

The question isn't whether it is cheaper to teach kids virtually than in-person. It is whether the cost of VA is less than the marginal cost of moving VA kids back into schools. And it's not. It would be cheaper to teach those 900 kids in their homeschools than to continue to operate a special program for them.

No, the issue is how they are funding it. They need to change the funding. They were funding it out of covid money. The idea was that the home schools would provide sports, after school clubs, music, theater, and field trips as well as provide dances, graduations and all the stuff in person kids get. However, only a select group of schools allow virtual students to participate and many of the VA students have never set foot in their home schools (especially those who refuse testing). So, those homeschools are getting funding for students they are not serving. So, take that funding that you are giving to the home schools and fund the VA with that money, problem solved. Give virtual kids the same opportunities for clubs, sports and other things through the virtual academy and fund things like graduation. The cost savings given how much MCPS spends on other things is very minimal. And, it serves an important function for some kind who are not well served in person or cannot be in person or just learn better virtually.

Look, we get you don't like virtual. We get that you cannot stand having your kids home and prefer someone else deal with them the bulk of the day. But, what does't work for you and your family works for other families.

And, part of the mass exit is because of the social and other things promised that MCPS didn't deliver on so many families felt forced to send their children back in person to get those things met.

Or, MCPS should give families stipends to do the activities outside MCPS if they are not going to have equity and give the VA kids the same as in person.

That doesn't address MCPS's overall funding needs. We need schools. We need to fund schools. We don't need VA. Offering it costs the district more money than not offering it and directing students to their home school.

I get that you want to be able to keep your kids home, but MCPS can't throw money at an increasingly niche desire for VA, particularly given the poor student outcomes and challenging budget situation.