Does everyone get Botox?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When do you stop? I imagine it looks great and natural in your 30s-40s. But once you hit menopause and 50+ and your neck is sagging, cheeks/jowls are sagging, fine lines are multiplibg quickly, marionette lines are there, facial fat and collagen are dramatically decreased, I don’t think having a smoother forehead really moves the needle as far as making you look younger/more attractive. It is a drop in the bucket on the effects of age and hormone changes.

It’s not just for the forehead. As that happens, you can inject marionette lines and the neck cords. Because yes it looks weird to have a smooth forehead with an aging bottom of the face.

Marionette lines and neck cords would need filler, not botox. So as the bottom of your face starts to age now you have to add in filler to keep up.

They inject a little into the DAO muscle, which is the muscle that pulls the corner of your mouth down to prevent that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, this is why women have lower net worth than men. Can we NOT chase each other down this rabbit hole.

I have no doubt a little Botox and fillers could make me look better. But if I do it, then I'll want to keep doing it. It get's expensive! I'd rather stick that money in a money market account and grow it. I'd rather have "deep 11s" and deeper pockets than a smooth forehead and have to work an extra 5 years to pay for it.

But as this becomes the norm, now women whose faces age more normally will face more age and looks-based discrimination. Great.

We could also just not.

I disagree. Even men need to care for their looks to be successful as they age.

It's not even close to even.

That said, how you look shouldn't be the reason you are or are not successful unless perhaps you are a model. Success should depend on what you do and how competent you are, not how many wrinkles you do or don't have. The worst part of all of this is that you all just accept that you "have" to play this game. No one seems bothered which is sick. If you go along with it, you're part of the problem.

Shallow morons.

Maybe so but that’s not the world we live in

I am so down with Botox, but this is a lie a lot of women tell themselves: that they HAVE to do it in order to stay competitive in the workplace. Ageism and sexism is real, but botox etc makes little to no difference in careers unless you are on the screen. I work for one of the most well known entities on the planet and the women in the C suite are not faux young beauty queens.

PP wasn’t saying people need Botox to succeed but she was acknowledging reality - looks absolutely do provide an advantage in the workplace, both youth and general attractiveness. Published research has shown this as have anonymous surveys.

https://www.inc.com/marcel-schwantes/are-your-colleagues-judging-you-based-on-your-appearance-new-research-reveals-how-far-discrimination-has-come-in-workplace.html

The article says 1) young woman in particular face discrimination, so not really an argument for botox and 2) pretty much says it is unattractive people who face discrimination, male and female.

I hope you're not really arguing those who forego botox and fillers are unattractive?

[Anonymous]

no, 48. No crows feet yet. I don't think I could ever spend that much money on my face.

[Anonymous]

People should do what they want but I don't actually think Botox (and especially fillers) will help you in the workplace unless your workplace is Hollywood or an adjacent industry, and even then they only help so much and in some cases hurt.

Most of the women who are most successful in my field (law and consulting) are either not doing this stuff or doing little enough that it's non-obvious. A lot of people do other interventions and are pretty open about it (and we all talk about skin care products) and I know some people who like Botox. But I know a bunch who don't bother. It's obviously not an affordability issue. I think many of us have discovered that hitting our 40s helped us in terms of gaining respect and power in our careers. I can't imagine wanting to look younger. I feel like I finally get the level of instant respect that some of my male peers got when we were in our early 30s. I'm not giving it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People should do what they want but I don't actually think Botox (and especially fillers) will help you in the workplace unless your workplace is Hollywood or an adjacent industry, and even then they only help so much and in some cases hurt.

Most of the women who are most successful in my field (law and consulting) are either not doing this stuff or doing little enough that it's non-obvious. A lot of people do other interventions and are pretty open about it (and we all talk about skin care products) and I know some people who like Botox. But I know a bunch who don't bother. It's obviously not an affordability issue. I think many of us have discovered that hitting our 40s helped us in terms of gaining respect and power in our careers. I can't imagine wanting to look younger. I feel like I finally get the level of instant respect that some of my male peers got when we were in our early 30s. I'm not giving it up.

I’m a lawyer in biglaw and agree with the above, but I’m still doing Botox. It’s definitely not needed for my career. I have authority in the room because I’m the expert, not because of Botox. Totally agree. That said, for my personal life it does make me feel good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should do what they want but I don't actually think Botox (and especially fillers) will help you in the workplace unless your workplace is Hollywood or an adjacent industry, and even then they only help so much and in some cases hurt.

Most of the women who are most successful in my field (law and consulting) are either not doing this stuff or doing little enough that it's non-obvious. A lot of people do other interventions and are pretty open about it (and we all talk about skin care products) and I know some people who like Botox. But I know a bunch who don't bother. It's obviously not an affordability issue. I think many of us have discovered that hitting our 40s helped us in terms of gaining respect and power in our careers. I can't imagine wanting to look younger. I feel like I finally get the level of instant respect that some of my male peers got when we were in our early 30s. I'm not giving it up.

I’m a lawyer in biglaw and agree with the above, but I’m still doing Botox. It’s definitely not needed for my career. I have authority in the room because I’m the expert, not because of Botox. Totally agree. That said, for my personal life it does make me feel good.

Agree. I am the one who said I do it, but it's not really helpful for most careers--Aside from screen jobs, I think maybe sales, but just being attractive and personable is more important for sales. Don't think crows feet hurt too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People should do what they want but I don't actually think Botox (and especially fillers) will help you in the workplace unless your workplace is Hollywood or an adjacent industry, and even then they only help so much and in some cases hurt.

Most of the women who are most successful in my field (law and consulting) are either not doing this stuff or doing little enough that it's non-obvious. A lot of people do other interventions and are pretty open about it (and we all talk about skin care products) and I know some people who like Botox. But I know a bunch who don't bother. It's obviously not an affordability issue. I think many of us have discovered that hitting our 40s helped us in terms of gaining respect and power in our careers. I can't imagine wanting to look younger. I feel like I finally get the level of instant respect that some of my male peers got when we were in our early 30s. I'm not giving it up.

How far into your 40's are you?

[Anonymous]

I think it’s been helpful for my career. I’m the face of a consulting firm and I’m always “selling” our biz and I was looking tired all the time. I’m a low key person, generally, and not particularly fashionable so I’m guessing most people don’t know. I’m now in my early 50s and I can see that things are beginning to “droop” which botox is not going to help with so I’m about to be a test case for what happens in my position as my face ages naturally (won’t do plastic surgery or filler).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, this is why women have lower net worth than men. Can we NOT chase each other down this rabbit hole.

I have no doubt a little Botox and fillers could make me look better. But if I do it, then I'll want to keep doing it. It get's expensive! I'd rather stick that money in a money market account and grow it. I'd rather have "deep 11s" and deeper pockets than a smooth forehead and have to work an extra 5 years to pay for it.

But as this becomes the norm, now women whose faces age more normally will face more age and looks-based discrimination. Great.

We could also just not.

I disagree. Even men need to care for their looks to be successful as they age.

It's not even close to even.

That said, how you look shouldn't be the reason you are or are not successful unless perhaps you are a model. Success should depend on what you do and how competent you are, not how many wrinkles you do or don't have. The worst part of all of this is that you all just accept that you "have" to play this game. No one seems bothered which is sick. If you go along with it, you're part of the problem.

Shallow morons.

Maybe so but that’s not the world we live in

I am so down with Botox, but this is a lie a lot of women tell themselves: that they HAVE to do it in order to stay competitive in the workplace. Ageism and sexism is real, but botox etc makes little to no difference in careers unless you are on the screen. I work for one of the most well known entities on the planet and the women in the C suite are not faux young beauty queens.

PP wasn’t saying people need Botox to succeed but she was acknowledging reality - looks absolutely do provide an advantage in the workplace, both youth and general attractiveness. Published research has shown this as have anonymous surveys.

https://www.inc.com/marcel-schwantes/are-your-colleagues-judging-you-based-on-your-appearance-new-research-reveals-how-far-discrimination-has-come-in-workplace.html

The article says 1) young woman in particular face discrimination, so not really an argument for botox and 2) pretty much says it is unattractive people who face discrimination, male and female.

I hope you're not really arguing those who forego botox and fillers are unattractive?

I still think people unconsciously favor those that they find attractive. (And obviously some people consider Botox more attractive or else why do so many people do it?) Maybe it makes a difference in some industries more than others. We’re also on a DC based forum, which is not a town known for valuing physical attractiveness, unlike Miami or LA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People should do what they want but I don't actually think Botox (and especially fillers) will help you in the workplace unless your workplace is Hollywood or an adjacent industry, and even then they only help so much and in some cases hurt.

Most of the women who are most successful in my field (law and consulting) are either not doing this stuff or doing little enough that it's non-obvious. A lot of people do other interventions and are pretty open about it (and we all talk about skin care products) and I know some people who like Botox. But I know a bunch who don't bother. It's obviously not an affordability issue. I think many of us have discovered that hitting our 40s helped us in terms of gaining respect and power in our careers. I can't imagine wanting to look younger. I feel like I finally get the level of instant respect that some of my male peers got when we were in our early 30s. I'm not giving it up.

My guess is you’re very early 40s and you aren’t aware of lots of people who are doing it because it’s not overdone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should do what they want but I don't actually think Botox (and especially fillers) will help you in the workplace unless your workplace is Hollywood or an adjacent industry, and even then they only help so much and in some cases hurt.

Most of the women who are most successful in my field (law and consulting) are either not doing this stuff or doing little enough that it's non-obvious. A lot of people do other interventions and are pretty open about it (and we all talk about skin care products) and I know some people who like Botox. But I know a bunch who don't bother. It's obviously not an affordability issue. I think many of us have discovered that hitting our 40s helped us in terms of gaining respect and power in our careers. I can't imagine wanting to look younger. I feel like I finally get the level of instant respect that some of my male peers got when we were in our early 30s. I'm not giving it up.

How far into your 40's are you?

48. But I definitely saw shift in my career early in my 40s. When I was younger, people evaluated me first by my relationships status and then my parental status. But around 40, and I think linked to me just looking more middle-aged generally, I feel that I began to be seen primarily as a professional. That's only increased with time. I think one of the best things that can happen in your career as a woman is hitting an age where no one expects you to get pregnant. Make of that what you will, but I think it matters. So looking menopausal is actually a plus, whether you are or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should do what they want but I don't actually think Botox (and especially fillers) will help you in the workplace unless your workplace is Hollywood or an adjacent industry, and even then they only help so much and in some cases hurt.

Most of the women who are most successful in my field (law and consulting) are either not doing this stuff or doing little enough that it's non-obvious. A lot of people do other interventions and are pretty open about it (and we all talk about skin care products) and I know some people who like Botox. But I know a bunch who don't bother. It's obviously not an affordability issue. I think many of us have discovered that hitting our 40s helped us in terms of gaining respect and power in our careers. I can't imagine wanting to look younger. I feel like I finally get the level of instant respect that some of my male peers got when we were in our early 30s. I'm not giving it up.

My guess is you’re very early 40s and you aren’t aware of lots of people who are doing it because it’s not overdone.

Nope. I definitely know people who do it but not many who do it regularly as beauty maintenance. I don't think it's considered the norm the way, say, dying your hair or certain topical skincare choices are. I think it's super personal and kind of depends on whether the stuff Botox can address bother you (as this thread makes clear, not everyone is bothered by some of these lines) and also whether you want to dedicate time and energy to maintenance.

I know a few people who do it regularly and love it, another group who does it sometimes for a special event or a "refresh" and I still know plenty of women who don't do it at all. I'm in the last group, though I have zero judgment for anyone who does it (I do lots of other things that require quite a bit of maintenance and energy, it's not like I'm taking some principled stance against Botox).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should do what they want but I don't actually think Botox (and especially fillers) will help you in the workplace unless your workplace is Hollywood or an adjacent industry, and even then they only help so much and in some cases hurt.

Most of the women who are most successful in my field (law and consulting) are either not doing this stuff or doing little enough that it's non-obvious. A lot of people do other interventions and are pretty open about it (and we all talk about skin care products) and I know some people who like Botox. But I know a bunch who don't bother. It's obviously not an affordability issue. I think many of us have discovered that hitting our 40s helped us in terms of gaining respect and power in our careers. I can't imagine wanting to look younger. I feel like I finally get the level of instant respect that some of my male peers got when we were in our early 30s. I'm not giving it up.

How far into your 40's are you?

48. But I definitely saw shift in my career early in my 40s. When I was younger, people evaluated me first by my relationships status and then my parental status. But around 40, and I think linked to me just looking more middle-aged generally, I feel that I began to be seen primarily as a professional. That's only increased with time. I think one of the best things that can happen in your career as a woman is hitting an age where no one expects you to get pregnant. Make of that what you will, but I think it matters. So looking menopausal is actually a plus, whether you are or not.

This so very true. Sexism at its worst, but true.

[Anonymous]

I'm 42 and just got my 11s for the first time bc I am sick of looking tired and angry. It's less about vanity/trying to look younger, and more about wanting my face to reflect my actual state of mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:no, 48. No crows feet yet. I don't think I could ever spend that much money on my face.

Good for you, seriously. I’m 36 with strong facial muscles and a very expressive face. I don’t mind buying some good genetics. Take my money botox overlords!