SAT/ACT single most predictive factor at Yale

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Why is that Dean Coffin so profoundly unlikable?

2. Our NYC private is now advising submit if it's over 25% cut off

3. I'd submit a 1500 to any school in America.

Chicago private. CC also advising to submit if over 25%

DC private advising to look at CDS pre-covid (2020) and submit if over 50%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Why is that Dean Coffin so profoundly unlikable?

2. Our NYC private is now advising submit if it's over 25% cut off

3. I'd submit a 1500 to any school in America.

Chicago private. CC also advising to submit if over 25%

DC private advising to look at CDS pre-covid (2020) and submit if over 50%.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting podcast out this week by Dartmouth’s Dean of Admission. While interviewing Yale’s Dean of Admission, Yale shares that SAT/ACT is actually more predictive of academic success than transcript at Yale (despite general surveys nationally showing the reverse). Dartmouth has found same as Yale. These findings are institution-specific and could be limited to these sorts of hyper competitive places. Yale found the math score to be particularly predictive for persistence as a science major. Dartmouth had indicated the same. Clark Univ. said transcript is more predictive for them.

My impression is that Yale and Dartmouth really want scores, especially students coming from underresourced backgrounds, from which, as discussed in podcast, an ACT score of 30, while low for the college, would show ability in context. They are concerned these students aren’t submitting because score is below 25th percentile for college. My prediction is that at least Yale and Dartmouth return to test required or at least more strongly encouraged (Dartmouth has already put out test preferred statement).
Not surprisingly, it sounded like although the scores are very important as a threshold matter for determining if student can succeed academically, it sounded like they aren’t that important once that threshold is crossed. This makes sense as they have too many able applicants.
Discussion starts at minute 6:10 with Yale’s statement at 9:12.

Data Dive, Part 2
https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/follow/admissions-beat-podcast

The UC colleges did a deep dive on the millions of students that have gone through their system and also found that standardized test scores were the single best predictor of college success. It also didn’t vary by household income; a 1300 predicted just as well when it came from a student from an affluent family as it did from a student from a poorer family. The push to eliminate standardized testing has nothing to do with their effectiveness in predicting college success.

Link to that study? I only find studies finding the opposite - that GPA is best predictor.

Come on. In all logic, you know that's crap. GPA is wildly inflated in most public schools (I know, my kids are in public!). Obviously GPA can't predict anything.

Best study I’ve seen was the one the Iowa regents did when they went test optional, which showed that while ACT score is generally predictive, kids whose GPAs are low relative to their ACT scores (slackers) don’t do as well and those whose GPAs are much higher than their ACT would predict (grinders) do really well.

But, we keep being told that grinders aren't what colleges want.

There’s a lot of “colleges.” It’s totally plausible that Ivy Plus schools don’t want grinders but schools like Iowa and Iowa State love them.

What's the opposite of a grinder? Serious question.

Naturally curious, self-driven learner, focused on learning purely to expand the mind - without necessarily a “have to be the best/smartest” or grinder attitude…..

A kid who learns just to learn. A kid who does some thing not because it will get him or her bonus points in the admissions, process or class/school or a job search.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Why is that Dean Coffin so profoundly unlikable?

2. Our NYC private is now advising submit if it's over 25% cut off

3. I'd submit a 1500 to any school in America.

Chicago private. CC also advising to submit if over 25%

NP. Makes sense to me. Felt like I was saying this all last year when the professionals were saying 50%. Essentially, if the score shows the kid is in the ballpark of the enrolled class before test optional (CDS 2020-21), it helps them show they can handle the academics.

Does anyone suppose that high test score kids (1500+) might do better in admissions this year than the crapshoot results of the last three years? Asking for a friend...

I don't know about better, but I do feel like the days of unhooked kids in middle class or wealthier zip codes going TO is over. Submit it or forget it.

There are so many kids who score 1500+ (or the ACT equivalent) that there just aren't enough spaces for them at the top schools.

Someone on here once posted that according to the Common App 2022 report, 76,000+ applicants applied to universities/colleges with an SAT score >1500 or ACT equivalent. There are an additional 98,000 in the 1400-1490 range. That's a lot of smart kids to place.

I don’t mean to imply your 1500 gets you in. But it passes that one hurdle for super selective schools. Not submitting a score from suburban Chicago or some other good zip will become more of a red flag than in last 2-3 cycles

Obviously depends on the tier of school we’re talking about. But given this is in the Yale subtopic, I presume we are talking about top 15 schools:

From our private, in talking to my senior kid and 6 of their friends (by the way, they all know what everybody else got on standardized tests, and generally where they are applying ED/REA) I don’t know any applicant (excluding 1st gen) of any race who is not submitting scores for a top 15 school.

So very very few in top 25% of class going TO. Maybe a change?

we're saying the same thing. if you're UMC and/or unhooked, you have no excuse not to submit a test score. If you're an olympic diver w a Hispanic National Merit award, you have more leeway to utilize TO .. because you're more desired.

Most of the DCUM posters are UMC and/or unhooked. Nothing earth shattering here. Most WILL submit scores to colleges like Yale/Dartmouth, will get rejected, and parents will find some "other" to blame.

is this on topic?

Lol
No. Someone just wants to say the same thing over and over again. No one gives a crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Why is that Dean Coffin so profoundly unlikable?

2. Our NYC private is now advising submit if it's over 25% cut off

3. I'd submit a 1500 to any school in America.

Chicago private. CC also advising to submit if over 25%

DC private advising to look at CDS pre-covid (2020) and submit if over 50%.

Is this official advice? From your college counselor at your private school?

If so, I am very surprised. I don’t even know where to get the stats from. Are they giving it to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting podcast out this week by Dartmouth’s Dean of Admission. While interviewing Yale’s Dean of Admission, Yale shares that SAT/ACT is actually more predictive of academic success than transcript at Yale (despite general surveys nationally showing the reverse). Dartmouth has found same as Yale. These findings are institution-specific and could be limited to these sorts of hyper competitive places. Yale found the math score to be particularly predictive for persistence as a science major. Dartmouth had indicated the same. Clark Univ. said transcript is more predictive for them.

My impression is that Yale and Dartmouth really want scores, especially students coming from underresourced backgrounds, from which, as discussed in podcast, an ACT score of 30, while low for the college, would show ability in context. They are concerned these students aren’t submitting because score is below 25th percentile for college. My prediction is that at least Yale and Dartmouth return to test required or at least more strongly encouraged (Dartmouth has already put out test preferred statement).
Not surprisingly, it sounded like although the scores are very important as a threshold matter for determining if student can succeed academically, it sounded like they aren’t that important once that threshold is crossed. This makes sense as they have too many able applicants.
Discussion starts at minute 6:10 with Yale’s statement at 9:12.

Data Dive, Part 2
https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/follow/admissions-beat-podcast

The UC colleges did a deep dive on the millions of students that have gone through their system and also found that standardized test scores were the single best predictor of college success. It also didn’t vary by household income; a 1300 predicted just as well when it came from a student from an affluent family as it did from a student from a poorer family. The push to eliminate standardized testing has nothing to do with their effectiveness in predicting college success.

Link to that study? I only find studies finding the opposite - that GPA is best predictor.

Come on. In all logic, you know that's crap. GPA is wildly inflated in most public schools (I know, my kids are in public!). Obviously GPA can't predict anything.

Best study I’ve seen was the one the Iowa regents did when they went test optional, which showed that while ACT score is generally predictive, kids whose GPAs are low relative to their ACT scores (slackers) don’t do as well and those whose GPAs are much higher than their ACT would predict (grinders) do really well.

But, we keep being told that grinders aren't what colleges want.

There’s a lot of “colleges.” It’s totally plausible that Ivy Plus schools don’t want grinders but schools like Iowa and Iowa State love them.

What's the opposite of a grinder? Serious question.

Naturally curious, self-driven learner, focused on learning purely to expand the mind - without necessarily a “have to be the best/smartest” or grinder attitude…..

A kid who learns just to learn. A kid who does some thing not because it will get him or her bonus points in the admissions, process or class/school or a job search.

My kid with bad grades. They just want to learn darn it!

[Anonymous]

Why are there so many private school parents on here? It seems like word has spread through private networks about this site, and now we have NY, CA and Chicago Big 3 equivalents taking up more space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are there so many private school parents on here? It seems like word has spread through private networks about this site, and now we have NY, CA and Chicago Big 3 equivalents taking up more space.

It’s about college admissions…why shouldn’t private school parents be on here?

This site’s college board is mentioned on CC and Reddit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Why is that Dean Coffin so profoundly unlikable?

2. Our NYC private is now advising submit if it's over 25% cut off

3. I'd submit a 1500 to any school in America.

Chicago private. CC also advising to submit if over 25%

DC private advising to look at CDS pre-covid (2020) and submit if over 50%.

Is this official advice? From your college counselor at your private school?

If so, I am very surprised. I don’t even know where to get the stats from. Are they giving it to you?

you can look them up on the CDS for that year. spelled out quite clearly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are there so many private school parents on here? It seems like word has spread through private networks about this site, and now we have NY, CA and Chicago Big 3 equivalents taking up more space.

UB and YBM closed. Too old for reddit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are there so many private school parents on here? It seems like word has spread through private networks about this site, and now we have NY, CA and Chicago Big 3 equivalents taking up more space.

UB and YBM closed. Too old for reddit

tf is "ub" and "Ybm?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are there so many private school parents on here? It seems like word has spread through private networks about this site, and now we have NY, CA and Chicago Big 3 equivalents taking up more space.

UB and YBM closed. Too old for reddit

So true!!
I’m one of the ub moms!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are there so many private school parents on here? It seems like word has spread through private networks about this site, and now we have NY, CA and Chicago Big 3 equivalents taking up more space.

UB and YBM closed. Too old for reddit

tf is "ub" and "Ybm?

Iykyk

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Why is that Dean Coffin so profoundly unlikable?

2. Our NYC private is now advising submit if it's over 25% cut off

3. I'd submit a 1500 to any school in America.

Chicago private. CC also advising to submit if over 25%

NP. Makes sense to me. Felt like I was saying this all last year when the professionals were saying 50%. Essentially, if the score shows the kid is in the ballpark of the enrolled class before test optional (CDS 2020-21), it helps them show they can handle the academics.

Does anyone suppose that high test score kids (1500+) might do better in admissions this year than the crapshoot results of the last three years? Asking for a friend...

I don't know about better, but I do feel like the days of unhooked kids in middle class or wealthier zip codes going TO is over. Submit it or forget it.

There are so many kids who score 1500+ (or the ACT equivalent) that there just aren't enough spaces for them at the top schools.

Someone on here once posted that according to the Common App 2022 report, 76,000+ applicants applied to universities/colleges with an SAT score >1500 or ACT equivalent. There are an additional 98,000 in the 1400-1490 range. That's a lot of smart kids to place.

I don’t mean to imply your 1500 gets you in. But it passes that one hurdle for super selective schools. Not submitting a score from suburban Chicago or some other good zip will become more of a red flag than in last 2-3 cycles

Obviously depends on the tier of school we’re talking about. But given this is in the Yale subtopic, I presume we are talking about top 15 schools:

From our private, in talking to my senior kid and 6 of their friends (by the way, they all know what everybody else got on standardized tests, and generally where they are applying ED/REA) I don’t know any applicant (excluding 1st gen) of any race who is not submitting scores for a top 15 school.

So very very few in top 25% of class going TO. Maybe a change?

Smart choice, because with that demographic, the AO know you had the means to easily test and likely time/$$ for test prep. So going TO likely means low score/score not inline with GPA/rigor.
So while TO is a thing, it's not really a thing if you are from a wealthy zip code/attend a good private school/etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting podcast out this week by Dartmouth’s Dean of Admission. While interviewing Yale’s Dean of Admission, Yale shares that SAT/ACT is actually more predictive of academic success than transcript at Yale (despite general surveys nationally showing the reverse). Dartmouth has found same as Yale. These findings are institution-specific and could be limited to these sorts of hyper competitive places. Yale found the math score to be particularly predictive for persistence as a science major. Dartmouth had indicated the same. Clark Univ. said transcript is more predictive for them.

My impression is that Yale and Dartmouth really want scores, especially students coming from underresourced backgrounds, from which, as discussed in podcast, an ACT score of 30, while low for the college, would show ability in context. They are concerned these students aren’t submitting because score is below 25th percentile for college. My prediction is that at least Yale and Dartmouth return to test required or at least more strongly encouraged (Dartmouth has already put out test preferred statement).
Not surprisingly, it sounded like although the scores are very important as a threshold matter for determining if student can succeed academically, it sounded like they aren’t that important once that threshold is crossed. This makes sense as they have too many able applicants.
Discussion starts at minute 6:10 with Yale’s statement at 9:12.

Data Dive, Part 2
https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/follow/admissions-beat-podcast

The UC colleges did a deep dive on the millions of students that have gone through their system and also found that standardized test scores were the single best predictor of college success. It also didn’t vary by household income; a 1300 predicted just as well when it came from a student from an affluent family as it did from a student from a poorer family. The push to eliminate standardized testing has nothing to do with their effectiveness in predicting college success.

Link to that study? I only find studies finding the opposite - that GPA is best predictor.

Come on. In all logic, you know that's crap. GPA is wildly inflated in most public schools (I know, my kids are in public!). Obviously GPA can't predict anything.

Best study I’ve seen was the one the Iowa regents did when they went test optional, which showed that while ACT score is generally predictive, kids whose GPAs are low relative to their ACT scores (slackers) don’t do as well and those whose GPAs are much higher than their ACT would predict (grinders) do really well.

But, we keep being told that grinders aren't what colleges want.

There’s a lot of “colleges.” It’s totally plausible that Ivy Plus schools don’t want grinders but schools like Iowa and Iowa State love them.

What's the opposite of a grinder? Serious question.

Naturally curious, self-driven learner, focused on learning purely to expand the mind - without necessarily a “have to be the best/smartest” or grinder attitude…..

A kid who learns just to learn. A kid who does some thing not because it will get him or her bonus points in the admissions, process or class/school or a job search.

My kid with bad grades. They just want to learn darn it!

yea, there is no way an elite college would want kids who "get bad grades but are naturally smart" because otherwise it would mess up their average GPA, unless of course, they just give out As like candy.

Or, actually, I know of an elite college that lets students drop their class if they are getting a bad grade right up to the week before finals. Can't do that at a public school. There's no hand holding and you just gotta deal with that bad grade.