SAT/ACT single most predictive factor at Yale

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Why is that Dean Coffin so profoundly unlikable?

2. Our NYC private is now advising submit if it's over 25% cut off

3. I'd submit a 1500 to any school in America.

Chicago private. CC also advising to submit if over 25%

NP. Makes sense to me. Felt like I was saying this all last year when the professionals were saying 50%. Essentially, if the score shows the kid is in the ballpark of the enrolled class before test optional (CDS 2020-21), it helps them show they can handle the academics.

Does anyone suppose that high test score kids (1500+) might do better in admissions this year than the crapshoot results of the last three years? Asking for a friend...

I don't know about better, but I do feel like the days of unhooked kids in middle class or wealthier zip codes going TO is over. Submit it or forget it.

There are so many kids who score 1500+ (or the ACT equivalent) that there just aren't enough spaces for them at the top schools.

Someone on here once posted that according to the Common App 2022 report, 76,000+ applicants applied to universities/colleges with an SAT score >1500 or ACT equivalent. There are an additional 98,000 in the 1400-1490 range. That's a lot of smart kids to place.

I don’t mean to imply your 1500 gets you in. But it passes that one hurdle for super selective schools. Not submitting a score from suburban Chicago or some other good zip will become more of a red flag than in last 2-3 cycles

[Anonymous]

Yale admissions visits our high school but will only meet with the NMSFs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yale admissions visits our high school but will only meet with the NMSFs.

I’m guessing your private high school made up that rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yale admissions visits our high school but will only meet with the NMSFs.

I’m guessing your private high school made up that rule.

Agree. Very much not the rule at our private school. Yale has a table when they come, like every other school. I like how our HS handles college visits. St Joe's and Harvard get the same real estate, same announcement, same time slot, same boxed lunch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On this 25% thing, are there maybe two sets of rules at play? Just like pre-COVID?

Are the 25% markers essentially the pre-COVID mid 50%? If so that’s prob the most imp takeaway.

25% now is often higher than 50% pre covid. That’s why the “submit if over median” is not sustainable

Really???
Holy crap, then maybe the schools are trying to correct for something that’s gone way off track? If so, I imagine in the next few years things will be back to a more reasonable normal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Why is that Dean Coffin so profoundly unlikable?

2. Our NYC private is now advising submit if it's over 25% cut off

3. I'd submit a 1500 to any school in America.

Chicago private. CC also advising to submit if over 25%

NP. Makes sense to me. Felt like I was saying this all last year when the professionals were saying 50%. Essentially, if the score shows the kid is in the ballpark of the enrolled class before test optional (CDS 2020-21), it helps them show they can handle the academics.

Does anyone suppose that high test score kids (1500+) might do better in admissions this year than the crapshoot results of the last three years? Asking for a friend...

I don't know about better, but I do feel like the days of unhooked kids in middle class or wealthier zip codes going TO is over. Submit it or forget it.

There are so many kids who score 1500+ (or the ACT equivalent) that there just aren't enough spaces for them at the top schools.

Someone on here once posted that according to the Common App 2022 report, 76,000+ applicants applied to universities/colleges with an SAT score >1500 or ACT equivalent. There are an additional 98,000 in the 1400-1490 range. That's a lot of smart kids to place.

I don’t mean to imply your 1500 gets you in. But it passes that one hurdle for super selective schools. Not submitting a score from suburban Chicago or some other good zip will become more of a red flag than in last 2-3 cycles

Obviously depends on the tier of school we’re talking about. But given this is in the Yale subtopic, I presume we are talking about top 15 schools:

From our private, in talking to my senior kid and 6 of their friends (by the way, they all know what everybody else got on standardized tests, and generally where they are applying ED/REA) I don’t know any applicant (excluding 1st gen) of any race who is not submitting scores for a top 15 school.

So very very few in top 25% of class going TO. Maybe a change?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Why is that Dean Coffin so profoundly unlikable?

2. Our NYC private is now advising submit if it's over 25% cut off

3. I'd submit a 1500 to any school in America.

Chicago private. CC also advising to submit if over 25%

NP. Makes sense to me. Felt like I was saying this all last year when the professionals were saying 50%. Essentially, if the score shows the kid is in the ballpark of the enrolled class before test optional (CDS 2020-21), it helps them show they can handle the academics.

Does anyone suppose that high test score kids (1500+) might do better in admissions this year than the crapshoot results of the last three years? Asking for a friend...

I don't know about better, but I do feel like the days of unhooked kids in middle class or wealthier zip codes going TO is over. Submit it or forget it.

There are so many kids who score 1500+ (or the ACT equivalent) that there just aren't enough spaces for them at the top schools.

Someone on here once posted that according to the Common App 2022 report, 76,000+ applicants applied to universities/colleges with an SAT score >1500 or ACT equivalent. There are an additional 98,000 in the 1400-1490 range. That's a lot of smart kids to place.

Your > 1500 data is inaccurate. The number is substantially lower that 76K individuals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More evidence says high school performance is the strongest indicator.

Says the parent whose kid has a 4.4 GPA and is a “bad test taker.” LOL

Yep. The "bad test taker" crowd will be out in full force dissing that dean fella! That's the only outcome they can't buy their way to, so they don't want it but pretend it helps the 'underprivileged' they pretend to care about.

I have a bad tester-- adhd kid. Testing for her can sometimes go well but often not great because of focus issues. Luckily, she was one and done on college test, but I could be saying the same about having a bad tester. Tests aren't the end all be all, and I should know because I worked my way through grad school teaching test prep. (Though, kid studied with a book -- to much has changed).

I think the uber rich do pretty well on these tests for the most part. They have the means to prep extensively, and I have seen first-hand how prep makes a difference on SAT.

Some folks love to paint a picture of how their kid is so brilliant, and their svore is due to brains, but, let's be honest. They prep too. Even if no formal prep, there is serious enrichment underpinning high scores. They say far more about environment than acumen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Why is that Dean Coffin so profoundly unlikable?

2. Our NYC private is now advising submit if it's over 25% cut off

3. I'd submit a 1500 to any school in America.

Chicago private. CC also advising to submit if over 25%

NP. Makes sense to me. Felt like I was saying this all last year when the professionals were saying 50%. Essentially, if the score shows the kid is in the ballpark of the enrolled class before test optional (CDS 2020-21), it helps them show they can handle the academics.

Does anyone suppose that high test score kids (1500+) might do better in admissions this year than the crapshoot results of the last three years? Asking for a friend...

I don't know about better, but I do feel like the days of unhooked kids in middle class or wealthier zip codes going TO is over. Submit it or forget it.

There are so many kids who score 1500+ (or the ACT equivalent) that there just aren't enough spaces for them at the top schools.

Someone on here once posted that according to the Common App 2022 report, 76,000+ applicants applied to universities/colleges with an SAT score >1500 or ACT equivalent. There are an additional 98,000 in the 1400-1490 range. That's a lot of smart kids to place.

I don’t mean to imply your 1500 gets you in. But it passes that one hurdle for super selective schools. Not submitting a score from suburban Chicago or some other good zip will become more of a red flag than in last 2-3 cycles

Obviously depends on the tier of school we’re talking about. But given this is in the Yale subtopic, I presume we are talking about top 15 schools:

From our private, in talking to my senior kid and 6 of their friends (by the way, they all know what everybody else got on standardized tests, and generally where they are applying ED/REA) I don’t know any applicant (excluding 1st gen) of any race who is not submitting scores for a top 15 school.

So very very few in top 25% of class going TO. Maybe a change?

we're saying the same thing. if you're UMC and/or unhooked, you have no excuse not to submit a test score. If you're an olympic diver w a Hispanic National Merit award, you have more leeway to utilize TO .. because you're more desired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yale admissions visits our high school but will only meet with the NMSFs.

I’m guessing your private high school made up that rule.

Agree. Very much not the rule at our private school. Yale has a table when they come, like every other school. I like how our HS handles college visits. St Joe's and Harvard get the same real estate, same announcement, same time slot, same boxed lunch.

No, not talking about an information table.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Why is that Dean Coffin so profoundly unlikable?

2. Our NYC private is now advising submit if it's over 25% cut off

3. I'd submit a 1500 to any school in America.

Chicago private. CC also advising to submit if over 25%

NP. Makes sense to me. Felt like I was saying this all last year when the professionals were saying 50%. Essentially, if the score shows the kid is in the ballpark of the enrolled class before test optional (CDS 2020-21), it helps them show they can handle the academics.

Does anyone suppose that high test score kids (1500+) might do better in admissions this year than the crapshoot results of the last three years? Asking for a friend...

I don't know about better, but I do feel like the days of unhooked kids in middle class or wealthier zip codes going TO is over. Submit it or forget it.

There are so many kids who score 1500+ (or the ACT equivalent) that there just aren't enough spaces for them at the top schools.

Someone on here once posted that according to the Common App 2022 report, 76,000+ applicants applied to universities/colleges with an SAT score >1500 or ACT equivalent. There are an additional 98,000 in the 1400-1490 range. That's a lot of smart kids to place.

Your > 1500 data is inaccurate. The number is substantially lower that 76K individuals.

Hmm..It is the top 5 percent out of about 2 million individuals...so about right, I think

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yale admissions visits our high school but will only meet with the NMSFs.

How does that work, logistically? Sounds odd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Why is that Dean Coffin so profoundly unlikable?

2. Our NYC private is now advising submit if it's over 25% cut off

3. I'd submit a 1500 to any school in America.

Chicago private. CC also advising to submit if over 25%

NP. Makes sense to me. Felt like I was saying this all last year when the professionals were saying 50%. Essentially, if the score shows the kid is in the ballpark of the enrolled class before test optional (CDS 2020-21), it helps them show they can handle the academics.

Does anyone suppose that high test score kids (1500+) might do better in admissions this year than the crapshoot results of the last three years? Asking for a friend...

I don't know about better, but I do feel like the days of unhooked kids in middle class or wealthier zip codes going TO is over. Submit it or forget it.

There are so many kids who score 1500+ (or the ACT equivalent) that there just aren't enough spaces for them at the top schools.

Someone on here once posted that according to the Common App 2022 report, 76,000+ applicants applied to universities/colleges with an SAT score >1500 or ACT equivalent. There are an additional 98,000 in the 1400-1490 range. That's a lot of smart kids to place.

I don’t mean to imply your 1500 gets you in. But it passes that one hurdle for super selective schools. Not submitting a score from suburban Chicago or some other good zip will become more of a red flag than in last 2-3 cycles

Obviously depends on the tier of school we’re talking about. But given this is in the Yale subtopic, I presume we are talking about top 15 schools:

From our private, in talking to my senior kid and 6 of their friends (by the way, they all know what everybody else got on standardized tests, and generally where they are applying ED/REA) I don’t know any applicant (excluding 1st gen) of any race who is not submitting scores for a top 15 school.

So very very few in top 25% of class going TO. Maybe a change?

we're saying the same thing. if you're UMC and/or unhooked, you have no excuse not to submit a test score. If you're an olympic diver w a Hispanic National Merit award, you have more leeway to utilize TO .. because you're more desired.

Most of the DCUM posters are UMC and/or unhooked. Nothing earth shattering here. Most WILL submit scores to colleges like Yale/Dartmouth, will get rejected, and parents will find some "other" to blame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting podcast out this week by Dartmouth’s Dean of Admission. While interviewing Yale’s Dean of Admission, Yale shares that SAT/ACT is actually more predictive of academic success than transcript at Yale (despite general surveys nationally showing the reverse). Dartmouth has found same as Yale. These findings are institution-specific and could be limited to these sorts of hyper competitive places. Yale found the math score to be particularly predictive for persistence as a science major. Dartmouth had indicated the same. Clark Univ. said transcript is more predictive for them.

My impression is that Yale and Dartmouth really want scores, especially students coming from underresourced backgrounds, from which, as discussed in podcast, an ACT score of 30, while low for the college, would show ability in context. They are concerned these students aren’t submitting because score is below 25th percentile for college. My prediction is that at least Yale and Dartmouth return to test required or at least more strongly encouraged (Dartmouth has already put out test preferred statement).
Not surprisingly, it sounded like although the scores are very important as a threshold matter for determining if student can succeed academically, it sounded like they aren’t that important once that threshold is crossed. This makes sense as they have too many able applicants.
Discussion starts at minute 6:10 with Yale’s statement at 9:12.

Data Dive, Part 2
https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/follow/admissions-beat-podcast

The UC colleges did a deep dive on the millions of students that have gone through their system and also found that standardized test scores were the single best predictor of college success. It also didn’t vary by household income; a 1300 predicted just as well when it came from a student from an affluent family as it did from a student from a poorer family. The push to eliminate standardized testing has nothing to do with their effectiveness in predicting college success.

Link to that study? I only find studies finding the opposite - that GPA is best predictor.

Come on. In all logic, you know that's crap. GPA is wildly inflated in most public schools (I know, my kids are in public!). Obviously GPA can't predict anything.

Best study I’ve seen was the one the Iowa regents did when they went test optional, which showed that while ACT score is generally predictive, kids whose GPAs are low relative to their ACT scores (slackers) don’t do as well and those whose GPAs are much higher than their ACT would predict (grinders) do really well.

But, we keep being told that grinders aren't what colleges want.

There’s a lot of “colleges.” It’s totally plausible that Ivy Plus schools don’t want grinders but schools like Iowa and Iowa State love them.

What's the opposite of a grinder? Serious question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Why is that Dean Coffin so profoundly unlikable?

2. Our NYC private is now advising submit if it's over 25% cut off

3. I'd submit a 1500 to any school in America.

Chicago private. CC also advising to submit if over 25%

NP. Makes sense to me. Felt like I was saying this all last year when the professionals were saying 50%. Essentially, if the score shows the kid is in the ballpark of the enrolled class before test optional (CDS 2020-21), it helps them show they can handle the academics.

Does anyone suppose that high test score kids (1500+) might do better in admissions this year than the crapshoot results of the last three years? Asking for a friend...

I don't know about better, but I do feel like the days of unhooked kids in middle class or wealthier zip codes going TO is over. Submit it or forget it.

There are so many kids who score 1500+ (or the ACT equivalent) that there just aren't enough spaces for them at the top schools.

Someone on here once posted that according to the Common App 2022 report, 76,000+ applicants applied to universities/colleges with an SAT score >1500 or ACT equivalent. There are an additional 98,000 in the 1400-1490 range. That's a lot of smart kids to place.

I don’t mean to imply your 1500 gets you in. But it passes that one hurdle for super selective schools. Not submitting a score from suburban Chicago or some other good zip will become more of a red flag than in last 2-3 cycles

Obviously depends on the tier of school we’re talking about. But given this is in the Yale subtopic, I presume we are talking about top 15 schools:

From our private, in talking to my senior kid and 6 of their friends (by the way, they all know what everybody else got on standardized tests, and generally where they are applying ED/REA) I don’t know any applicant (excluding 1st gen) of any race who is not submitting scores for a top 15 school.

So very very few in top 25% of class going TO. Maybe a change?

we're saying the same thing. if you're UMC and/or unhooked, you have no excuse not to submit a test score. If you're an olympic diver w a Hispanic National Merit award, you have more leeway to utilize TO .. because you're more desired.

Most of the DCUM posters are UMC and/or unhooked. Nothing earth shattering here. Most WILL submit scores to colleges like Yale/Dartmouth, will get rejected, and parents will find some "other" to blame.

is this on topic?