How can we make DC streets bicycle and pedestrian-only?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Going to be fun watching cyclists and pediatricians dodging those drones making delivers to all the businesses in the car free zone(s).

Why would you use a drone, inefficiently, when you can use a cargo e-bike, efficiently?

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/pr2023/pedal-assist-cargo-bikes.shtml

E-bikes should be banned, and more people will work to ban them after streets are made car-free. An ebike is just another motorized hazard, using a loophole that needs to be closed. And it will be.

Pedal your bike as nature intended. You don’t get to add a motor to it and still pretend it’s a bike and not a motor vehicle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For one, our metro system is inadequate, there aren't enough stations.

I live and work in DC, but with an elementary kid in school, it would take me (checks google maps)... 25 min to get my kid to school that's a 10-15 min drive away, then another (checks google maps) 45-55 min to get myself to work that's a 25-30 min drive normally.

This is living in NE, with kids in school in NE, with my work also in NE.

No thanks.

You do realize you're literally driving at bike speed? Probably slower depending on where in NE.

The reason it takes you so long is because of traffic and lights (aka too many cars).

Now imagine your trips if DC had half as many cars.

DP. This is the real answer. It’s not banning all cars, it’s banning any non-DC plates. Or making them pay huge tolls to drive in the city. Anything that reduces MD and VA plates would be fine by me!

Cyclists are almost entirely white. Drivers are disproportionately black and brown (because they're less likely to be able to afford to live close to where they work)

All these cockamamie schemes to help cyclists and punish drivers boil down to privileging white people and hurting black and brown people.

Every. Word. Of. This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For one, our metro system is inadequate, there aren't enough stations.

I live and work in DC, but with an elementary kid in school, it would take me (checks google maps)... 25 min to get my kid to school that's a 10-15 min drive away, then another (checks google maps) 45-55 min to get myself to work that's a 25-30 min drive normally.

This is living in NE, with kids in school in NE, with my work also in NE.

No thanks.

You do realize you're literally driving at bike speed? Probably slower depending on where in NE.

The reason it takes you so long is because of traffic and lights (aka too many cars).

Now imagine your trips if DC had half as many cars.

DP. This is the real answer. It’s not banning all cars, it’s banning any non-DC plates. Or making them pay huge tolls to drive in the city. Anything that reduces MD and VA plates would be fine by me!

Cyclists are almost entirely white. Drivers are disproportionately black and brown (because they're less likely to be able to afford to live close to where they work)

All these cockamamie schemes to help cyclists and punish drivers boil down to privileging white people and hurting black and brown people.

Cockamamie?

OK grandpa, OK. But now would you PLEASE GO TO BED?

But you voted for a president 40 years older than this poster you’re calling grandpa.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For one, our metro system is inadequate, there aren't enough stations.

I live and work in DC, but with an elementary kid in school, it would take me (checks google maps)... 25 min to get my kid to school that's a 10-15 min drive away, then another (checks google maps) 45-55 min to get myself to work that's a 25-30 min drive normally.

This is living in NE, with kids in school in NE, with my work also in NE.

No thanks.

You do realize you're literally driving at bike speed? Probably slower depending on where in NE.

The reason it takes you so long is because of traffic and lights (aka too many cars).

Now imagine your trips if DC had half as many cars.

DP. This is the real answer. It’s not banning all cars, it’s banning any non-DC plates. Or making them pay huge tolls to drive in the city. Anything that reduces MD and VA plates would be fine by me!

Cyclists are almost entirely white. Drivers are disproportionately black and brown (because they're less likely to be able to afford to live close to where they work)

All these cockamamie schemes to help cyclists and punish drivers boil down to privileging white people and hurting black and brown people.

You're wrong about this, it's been demonstrated to you multiple times that you're wrong about this, and yet here you still are, repeating yourself wrongly about this.

Sounds like you are unfamiliar with both cyclists and our suburbs.

Nope, that's you. You're just wrong about this.

I guess the fact that most of the cyclists who have died in traffic/related fatalities in the city in the past year have been either older black guys or white women means they just have such terrible luck because "those people" aren't riding bikes, its just middle-aged white guys who are?

Uh, DC averages one cyclist death per year.

Drivers killed 4 bicyclists in Montgomery County last year: a teenage boy bicycling on an obstructed sidewalk, a white woman bicycling in a bike lane (the driver was convicted of causing her death), another teenage boy walking his bike across the road after getting off a bus (hit and run driver), and a Hispanic man walking his bike across the road. All four were bicycling for transportation.

The bicyclist most recently killed in Prince George's County was a middle-aged black man bicycling for recreation/exercise (drunk driver).

The bicyclist most recently killed in Montgomery County was a young black man bicycling back from the store (racing drivers).

This thread is about DC. Not what happens in other states.

I mean, sure, if you want to take the position that the people who bicycle in DC are somehow completely different from the people who bicycle in Montgomery County or Prince George's County...

I honestly have no idea what you’re arguing about anymore. It’s just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point because if you’re not making up your own facts you’re changing the subject when someone points out you’re wrong. Then you delete the posts. LOL!

How many bicycle fatalities does DC average in a year?

You're going to have to decide if your argument is "There aren't enough dead bicyclists in DC to make bicycle infrastructure in DC worthwhile" - in which case you should tell us how many dead bicyclists there would need to be, in your opinion.

Or if your argument is "Bicyclists in DC are white men" - in which case you should explain why most of the dead bicyclists are not white men.

This is exactly what I’m talking about. Redirect and then argue about something else. LOL.

Let me help you. There has been 1 bicycle fatality so far in 2023 and going back to 2017, which is furthest back that DC provides easy access to data, there have been 15. So an average of 2.14 per year.

Also, according to the League of American Cyclists, who analyzed 2017 NHTA survey data, less than 20% of bicycle trips in the United States were by people of color, ie all person who are not non-Hispanic white.
https://data.bikeleague.org/show-your-data/national-data/demographics-of-active-transportation/

How many dead bicyclists is enough for you?

Why are most of the dead bicyclists not white men?

Citation needed.

But again, I am not even sure what you are arguing. Can you please explain what point you are trying to make because I’m lost.

Here are basic facts that you seem to have a serious problem facing.

1. The vast majority of cyclists in the US (70%) are men.

2. The vast majority of cyclists in the US are white (81%).

3. In the DC region, very few Black people use bicycles to commute to work (1%).

Just facts.

Lastly, to address your ridiculous rhetorical question, how many deaths of any type are too many? Pick a category.

How many dead bicyclists is enough for you? Would 2 be enough to justify bike lanes, in your mind? How about 10? How about 50?

If supposedly most bicyclists are white men, why are most of the dead bicyclists not white men?

I don't think it was an accident that they chose nationwide statistics for the first two, rather than focusing on our more diverse area

LOL.

In “our more diverse area”, 1% of Black workers and 2% of Hispanic workers use bicycles are their primary mode of transportation to get to work. Compared to 6% of white workers. When you consider the comparative workforce demographics, the gap widens further.
https://www.mwcog.org/file.aspx?D=HcOqbzivuFayTfyAlhvUJhe72nkkosOrz2TZl%2bOlFXE%3d&A=3b5jlNJv7k8i9DmLKmqJ5c9bgLZ451b3R0E2zs1pReQ%3d

So in response to these facts will you delete the post or get all crazy emotional again? Absolutely insane.

If supposedly most bicyclists are white men, why are most of the dead bicyclists not white men?

Is the answer “racism”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For one, our metro system is inadequate, there aren't enough stations.

I live and work in DC, but with an elementary kid in school, it would take me (checks google maps)... 25 min to get my kid to school that's a 10-15 min drive away, then another (checks google maps) 45-55 min to get myself to work that's a 25-30 min drive normally.

This is living in NE, with kids in school in NE, with my work also in NE.

No thanks.

You do realize you're literally driving at bike speed? Probably slower depending on where in NE.

The reason it takes you so long is because of traffic and lights (aka too many cars).

Now imagine your trips if DC had half as many cars.

DP. This is the real answer. It’s not banning all cars, it’s banning any non-DC plates. Or making them pay huge tolls to drive in the city. Anything that reduces MD and VA plates would be fine by me!

Cyclists are almost entirely white. Drivers are disproportionately black and brown (because they're less likely to be able to afford to live close to where they work)

All these cockamamie schemes to help cyclists and punish drivers boil down to privileging white people and hurting black and brown people.

Every. Word. Of. This.

Cyclists in white neighborhood are almost entirely white. All you're doing is telling us where you live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have miles and miles and miles of bike lanes that no one uses. Before commandeering our entire transportation infrastructure, maybe start by sometimes using the lanes we already have?

If they’re not being used it’s because they don’t go where people want to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For one, our metro system is inadequate, there aren't enough stations.

I live and work in DC, but with an elementary kid in school, it would take me (checks google maps)... 25 min to get my kid to school that's a 10-15 min drive away, then another (checks google maps) 45-55 min to get myself to work that's a 25-30 min drive normally.

This is living in NE, with kids in school in NE, with my work also in NE.

No thanks.

There are buses though.

Also, if this is all in NE DC, then you have a lot of long-duration, short-distance car trips. Very inefficient. I"m so sorry.

You're not getting it. The public transportation times I gave involved busses as there's not a particularly metro friendly way to get to my kid's school nor my workplace. I'm a 15-20 min walk from the closest metro. Sure, I have busses, but they would add 30 min to my commute one way, an hour daily. With kids, that's a no go. Doesn't even factor getting my kid across the hill to their random after school sports practice or whatever.

So what I'm saying is that there's no way for me to get anywhere I need to where public transport is faster than my car - including school, work, and the grocery store. I live in Langston, kid's school on the Hill, work near Catholic. It is not better for me to use public transportation. Even just to drive down Benning to H St NE to go to the grocery store, it's faster for me to drive than to walk to the bus or streetcar, wait for the next one, and wait for it to make multiple slow stops to the location...

If it is one day, I'll use it, but it's not currently.

Imagine if POV vehicles were banned and the number of buses and routes was increased along with providing more and safer bike lanes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love for each neighborhood to have a pedestrian only street - 18th st, 17th st, etc where kids can play in the street and people can mull around. So many cities around the world do that (and we can use smaller trucks and back alleys for deliveries, no one is trying to kill businesses)

We should learn from, and emulate European cities.

But alas, we don’t.

We can't because most of America was designed around cars and the American dream of a single family home.
That's not the case for Europe where most of the cities and villages existed before cars. So they invested in rail infrastructure instead.
DC's plan was inspired by Haussman's in Paris - long vistas to counter any mob / revolutionary activity that could otherwise be hidden in the twisty windy enclaves of ancient organic neighborhoods (think of old parts of London here). This town planning was perfectly suitable to the automobile that came along later.

It really would be great if each neighborhood had a pedestrian only street. Asian cities have night markets where the streets are open to pedestrian activities only. It encourages people to meet, everyone can pursue their various interests (shop here for school stationary, oh I need a new phone cover, grab a bite there - one is not committed to being a patron of a restaurant) rather than get plastered in a pub or tiptoe thru a marble floored mall.
Greens and foliage is important too. One of the most unpleasant things about walking around DC is the huge swathes of concrete and very little shading.

The most famous European cities do indeed have lovely center-city areas that are mostly the domain of pedestrians and cyclists. These are the parts of those cities you see on postcards, and the parts that American tourists visit.

But in nearly all of these same cities (especially Amsterdam, the GGW mouth-breather wet-dream of a city), that postcard-perfect center city is completely hemmed in by ugly auto-centric sprawl, and often it's worse sprawl than anything you see in the U.S. But you never see these areas on postcards, and American tourists never visit, so they don't exist in the minds of U.S. visitors because it's outside the quaint 2-square-mile area that they visit.

So can we stop holding up Europe as this paragon of urbanism? It's just not true.

You are just a liar. There is no sprawl in or around Amsterdam (or anywhere in the Netherlands for that matter) that even COMPARES to just the average North American suburb. I traveled around the entire country of the Netherlands with small kids in tow, and never once did we need a car, and every city and town was beautiful (to our eyes anyway, which are sadly accustomed to the strip mall hell that is the US) and incredibly easy to get around in on foot and/or public transportation. Even little towns and villages between major cities had incredibly easy access to trains and buses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love for each neighborhood to have a pedestrian only street - 18th st, 17th st, etc where kids can play in the street and people can mull around. So many cities around the world do that (and we can use smaller trucks and back alleys for deliveries, no one is trying to kill businesses)

We should learn from, and emulate European cities.

But alas, we don’t.

We can't because most of America was designed around cars and the American dream of a single family home.
That's not the case for Europe where most of the cities and villages existed before cars. So they invested in rail infrastructure instead.
DC's plan was inspired by Haussman's in Paris - long vistas to counter any mob / revolutionary activity that could otherwise be hidden in the twisty windy enclaves of ancient organic neighborhoods (think of old parts of London here). This town planning was perfectly suitable to the automobile that came along later.

It really would be great if each neighborhood had a pedestrian only street. Asian cities have night markets where the streets are open to pedestrian activities only. It encourages people to meet, everyone can pursue their various interests (shop here for school stationary, oh I need a new phone cover, grab a bite there - one is not committed to being a patron of a restaurant) rather than get plastered in a pub or tiptoe thru a marble floored mall.
Greens and foliage is important too. One of the most unpleasant things about walking around DC is the huge swathes of concrete and very little shading.

The most famous European cities do indeed have lovely center-city areas that are mostly the domain of pedestrians and cyclists. These are the parts of those cities you see on postcards, and the parts that American tourists visit.

But in nearly all of these same cities (especially Amsterdam, the GGW mouth-breather wet-dream of a city), that postcard-perfect center city is completely hemmed in by ugly auto-centric sprawl, and often it's worse sprawl than anything you see in the U.S. But you never see these areas on postcards, and American tourists never visit, so they don't exist in the minds of U.S. visitors because it's outside the quaint 2-square-mile area that they visit.

So can we stop holding up Europe as this paragon of urbanism? It's just not true.

You are just a liar. There is no sprawl in or around Amsterdam (or anywhere in the Netherlands for that matter) that even COMPARES to just the average North American suburb. I traveled around the entire country of the Netherlands with small kids in tow, and never once did we need a car, and every city and town was beautiful (to our eyes anyway, which are sadly accustomed to the strip mall hell that is the US) and incredibly easy to get around in on foot and/or public transportation. Even little towns and villages between major cities had incredibly easy access to trains and buses.

The Netherlands averages 1 car per household and has the highest density of cars than anywhere in Europe.

However this doesn’t tell the whole story. About 60% of the country lives outside urban areas where the country is seeing the highest population growth. And in my those areas, car ownership and car use are increasing significantly.

The population of Dutch urban areas are not growing and in those areas people are owning and using cars less.

Sound familiar? Families with kids and cars in the suburbs. Young people, yuppies and hipsters in the city with their bikes. Here, read for yourself.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358798695_The_widespread_car_ownership_in_the_Netherlands

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For one, our metro system is inadequate, there aren't enough stations.

I live and work in DC, but with an elementary kid in school, it would take me (checks google maps)... 25 min to get my kid to school that's a 10-15 min drive away, then another (checks google maps) 45-55 min to get myself to work that's a 25-30 min drive normally.

This is living in NE, with kids in school in NE, with my work also in NE.

No thanks.

You do realize you're literally driving at bike speed? Probably slower depending on where in NE.

The reason it takes you so long is because of traffic and lights (aka too many cars).

Now imagine your trips if DC had half as many cars.

DP. This is the real answer. It’s not banning all cars, it’s banning any non-DC plates. Or making them pay huge tolls to drive in the city. Anything that reduces MD and VA plates would be fine by me!

Cyclists are almost entirely white. Drivers are disproportionately black and brown (because they're less likely to be able to afford to live close to where they work)

All these cockamamie schemes to help cyclists and punish drivers boil down to privileging white people and hurting black and brown people.

You're wrong about this, it's been demonstrated to you multiple times that you're wrong about this, and yet here you still are, repeating yourself wrongly about this.

Sounds like you are unfamiliar with both cyclists and our suburbs.

Nope, that's you. You're just wrong about this.

I guess the fact that most of the cyclists who have died in traffic/related fatalities in the city in the past year have been either older black guys or white women means they just have such terrible luck because "those people" aren't riding bikes, its just middle-aged white guys who are?

Uh, DC averages one cyclist death per year.

Drivers killed 4 bicyclists in Montgomery County last year: a teenage boy bicycling on an obstructed sidewalk, a white woman bicycling in a bike lane (the driver was convicted of causing her death), another teenage boy walking his bike across the road after getting off a bus (hit and run driver), and a Hispanic man walking his bike across the road. All four were bicycling for transportation.

The bicyclist most recently killed in Prince George's County was a middle-aged black man bicycling for recreation/exercise (drunk driver).

The bicyclist most recently killed in Montgomery County was a young black man bicycling back from the store (racing drivers).

This thread is about DC. Not what happens in other states.

I mean, sure, if you want to take the position that the people who bicycle in DC are somehow completely different from the people who bicycle in Montgomery County or Prince George's County...

I honestly have no idea what you’re arguing about anymore. It’s just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point because if you’re not making up your own facts you’re changing the subject when someone points out you’re wrong. Then you delete the posts. LOL!

How many bicycle fatalities does DC average in a year?

You're going to have to decide if your argument is "There aren't enough dead bicyclists in DC to make bicycle infrastructure in DC worthwhile" - in which case you should tell us how many dead bicyclists there would need to be, in your opinion.

Or if your argument is "Bicyclists in DC are white men" - in which case you should explain why most of the dead bicyclists are not white men.

This is exactly what I’m talking about. Redirect and then argue about something else. LOL.

Let me help you. There has been 1 bicycle fatality so far in 2023 and going back to 2017, which is furthest back that DC provides easy access to data, there have been 15. So an average of 2.14 per year.

Also, according to the League of American Cyclists, who analyzed 2017 NHTA survey data, less than 20% of bicycle trips in the United States were by people of color, ie all person who are not non-Hispanic white.
https://data.bikeleague.org/show-your-data/national-data/demographics-of-active-transportation/

How many dead bicyclists is enough for you?

Why are most of the dead bicyclists not white men?

Citation needed.

But again, I am not even sure what you are arguing. Can you please explain what point you are trying to make because I’m lost.

Here are basic facts that you seem to have a serious problem facing.

1. The vast majority of cyclists in the US (70%) are men.

2. The vast majority of cyclists in the US are white (81%).

3. In the DC region, very few Black people use bicycles to commute to work (1%).

Just facts.

Lastly, to address your ridiculous rhetorical question, how many deaths of any type are too many? Pick a category.

How many dead bicyclists is enough for you? Would 2 be enough to justify bike lanes, in your mind? How about 10? How about 50?

If supposedly most bicyclists are white men, why are most of the dead bicyclists not white men?

I don't think it was an accident that they chose nationwide statistics for the first two, rather than focusing on our more diverse area

LOL.

In “our more diverse area”, 1% of Black workers and 2% of Hispanic workers use bicycles are their primary mode of transportation to get to work. Compared to 6% of white workers. When you consider the comparative workforce demographics, the gap widens further.
https://www.mwcog.org/file.aspx?D=HcOqbzivuFayTfyAlhvUJhe72nkkosOrz2TZl%2bOlFXE%3d&A=3b5jlNJv7k8i9DmLKmqJ5c9bgLZ451b3R0E2zs1pReQ%3d

So in response to these facts will you delete the post or get all crazy emotional again? Absolutely insane.

If supposedly most bicyclists are white men, why are most of the dead bicyclists not white men?

Is the answer “racism”?

So over 2020. Yawn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC is such a beautifully designed city, with amazing outdoor dining and cafe potential.

But trucks, busses, cars and motorcycles ruin it for us residents.

DC is geographically tiny, so why not make our streets pedestrian and bicycles- only?

Yes, that would be wonderful during the severe thunderstorms, torrential downpours and tropical storms of August.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For one, our metro system is inadequate, there aren't enough stations.

I live and work in DC, but with an elementary kid in school, it would take me (checks google maps)... 25 min to get my kid to school that's a 10-15 min drive away, then another (checks google maps) 45-55 min to get myself to work that's a 25-30 min drive normally.

This is living in NE, with kids in school in NE, with my work also in NE.

No thanks.

There are buses though.

Also, if this is all in NE DC, then you have a lot of long-duration, short-distance car trips. Very inefficient. I"m so sorry.

You're not getting it. The public transportation times I gave involved busses as there's not a particularly metro friendly way to get to my kid's school nor my workplace. I'm a 15-20 min walk from the closest metro. Sure, I have busses, but they would add 30 min to my commute one way, an hour daily. With kids, that's a no go. Doesn't even factor getting my kid across the hill to their random after school sports practice or whatever.

So what I'm saying is that there's no way for me to get anywhere I need to where public transport is faster than my car - including school, work, and the grocery store. I live in Langston, kid's school on the Hill, work near Catholic. It is not better for me to use public transportation. Even just to drive down Benning to H St NE to go to the grocery store, it's faster for me to drive than to walk to the bus or streetcar, wait for the next one, and wait for it to make multiple slow stops to the location...

If it is one day, I'll use it, but it's not currently.

Imagine if POV vehicles were banned and the number of buses and routes was increased along with providing more and safer bike lanes.

The bike lanes in Rock Creek Park look pretty safe to me.

[Anonymous]

The only upside to this proposal is that it would reduce carjackings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tons of people bike in DC every day.

Tons?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is such a beautifully designed city, with amazing outdoor dining and cafe potential.

But trucks, busses, cars and motorcycles ruin it for us residents.

DC is geographically tiny, so why not make our streets pedestrian and bicycles- only?

Is it really necessary to point out that most of the bars, restaurants and stores in this city would go out of business if we banned cars?

+1 I have been a daily bike commuter in this town for 20 years, but even I think a total ban on cars is foolish. What I would like to see, though, is a network of bike trails and/or streets closed to cars that is comparable to the metro coverage. So, a couple N-S streets, a couple E-W streets, and a couple diagonal streets. All the bike lanes that have been put in place are great--and do get used, contrary to what some folks say on this board. But, if I could get around town on my bike without having to worry about getting doored/hooked/run over, that would be a game changer.

I support bike trails or elevated bike lanes. Just don't support creating lanes/unnecessary traffic jams for some phantom demand. I actually think more people would bike if they could bike in a bike-only lane like they have in Vienna or Montreal (near the river).