Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:SLAC prof here. Haven't read all the responses, too tired from being overworked. I have seen a drop, not necessarily a big drop, but a significant one, over the past 20+ years of teaching at different institutions. Some of it began before the pandemic, especially mental health, but the pandemic exacerbated it in terms of students not being accountable for turning in work on time, etc. I've also seen a change in critical thinking that I think has at least two root causes - being taught to take a test in high school (even or especially even APs), but also the post-truth era. Lastly, I might only speak for my current institution here, but we've made intentional DEI efforts and our recruiting has changed. This is partially because of the social justice aspect of making a SLAC education more accessible to different kinds of students, but it also has to do with the demographic cliff. This has led to recruiting students from high schools and family environments that have not enabled adequate preparation for college. This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.

Universities need to and are shifting to the wraparound services that they provide - ranging from more mental health supports, to increased accommodations and social and financial supports. This is necessary for students to succeed. But it is also taxing for an institution and the realities of grade inflation and students slipping through the cracks can and does occur.

OP

Thank you SLAC professor.

That is an interesting point about the post truth era.. what does this mean in terms of higher education? Don’t students still have to back up theoretical claims with empirical or scientific evidence?

Also interesting that you have observed a drop over such a long time.

Agree that mental health care is necessary for learning.

Thanks for your reply.

Interesting the professor thinks the students have the ability to learn and perform and have great potential but since they haven’t had as many privileges they consider the students “less”.

OP -
He or she can speak for themself but I personally did not interpret his remarks in that way .

“This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.”

To me, she or he is saying that colleges are wrestling with DEI challenges - they want to be inclusive of a broader field of students but are aware that students from disadvantaged schools or homes face significant obstacles in college preparedness. That does not mean the challenges can’t be overcome but more work and attention is needed by colleges and professors to help them to adapt and succeed.

That is how I interpreted the comments anyway.

SLAC prof here again, yes, this is what I meant. And yes, as a professor I do invest more time with these students, as it is my job at a SLAC to work with students. I have no TA and my students benefit from one on one conversations. My students are human beings to me, not just a group of numbers or labels.

Yet you categorize some not even knowing their background as "the cliff kids" or "DEI efforts". You could easily categorize them as "less coddled" and it would be apt and accurate yet you don't, you categorize them as less and the "coddled and tutored" as more.

There are no SLACs without tutors and writing centers.

it's okay, I get it, you have been a professor for 20 years, professors are luddites by nature and the world is passing you by in many ways and it's hard to keep up. But, have you ever just stopped to think, hey maybe I'm hitting the cliff, maybe I'm not the one keeping up.

Zoom, texting, bulletin boards, online lectures... every job has new things to learn every year, maybe it's just too much for you.

DP: Wow, your stereotypes are telling.

Perhaps or maybe the “professor” could do some self reflection and ask for mentoring from a younger colleague to get back up to speed.

It happens in every profession. There is no shame in falling behind the curve sometimes. We can’t always be at the top of our game for 20+ straight years.

Often it’s helpful to step back take time to identify your strengths and weaknesses and do better.

The world is moving quickly.

NP. You are just awful.

DP. Agreed. That PP sounds so arrogant and ignorant. Sometimes the anti-educational trolling on this board feels political even when it isn't overt. I wish we had logins for this board to see how much of this comes from the same source(s). It would at least temper the antagonism.

It's bizarre that you can't even understand that professors are human doing jobs and they are very, very, very imperfect.

I'm not antagonistic about it but you sure seem triggered. I am simply stating facts, perhaps not couching it with flowery language to protect fragile egos, but the reality is that teaching is a whole new world. Older teachers are being outpaced by technology and new ways to communicate.

I remember when professors had typists and were appalled that they would have to type their own research with a word processor, some never did.

Now there is Canvas and email and texting and zoom and recordings... I feel for professors but in what other profession can you just not be good at your job and then everybody blames their clients.

It is bizarre that you can’t understand how unnecessarily antagonistic, over bearing and generally unhelpful your inputs were.

They offered nothing regarding insights into whether college preparedness has changed and attacked a LAS professor for simply telling their experience.

It actually does, but your too triggered to read this input and think critically about it. Perhaps you're a new student who has not been taught reading comprehension and critical thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not antagonistic about it but you sure seem triggered. I am simply stating facts, perhaps not couching it with flowery language to protect fragile egos, but the reality is that teaching is a whole new world. Older teachers are being outpaced by technology and new ways to communicate.

I remember when professors had typists and were appalled that they would have to type their own research with a word processor, some never did.

Now there is Canvas and email and texting and zoom and recordings... I feel for professors but in what other profession can you just not be good at your job and then everybody blames their clients.

I’m a new poster who’s the parent of a college student who’s meeting deadlines and doing well.

Certainly, professors can be jerks, but you’re the only one being awful and mean in this thread.

You’re being awful because you are, in effect, calling the professors racist, then being incredibly insulting and ageist.

You’re also being awful by showing your high level of privilege and assuming as a given that SLACs all have effective, Columbia-level support services.

You’re like someone who scoffs at a student who forgets a lunch at home and asks, “Why don’t you just call the butler?”

Not every student comes from a house with a butler.

Not every SLAC has TAs or a writing center that can do much for a student with very weak writing skills.

Columbia is not a SLAC.

Name a SLAC that does not have a writing center.

I didn't call the professor racist, I said they have blinders on, perhaps it's a white girl with a baby going to college that they treat differently... that's not race and it might not even be SES. But they treat students one way based on something due to myopic thinking. They expect every student to fit one singluar riduculously tiny mold.

I had a professor ask me if they could fix the speaker to Teams because they heard children in the background... during COVID. Yea sorry some student's have children, get over it. He discussed marking them down for participation... not because they did not participate, not because they didn't have good feedback, but because it bothered him that he "heard a child's voice".

Kids forget lunch, ask 3 friends for a granola bar or go hungry, natural consequences.

I neither awful nor mean. I am just stating facts about experiences that happen behind the scenes in a professor's office. I agree it's horrible, it sounds horrible, it's not made up.

It's odd you are mad at me because I am showing what really goes on, but you're not mad that professors do these things.

Go ahead, shoot the messenger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just an adjunct, teaching at a state U, so take this FWIW. I agree with A LOT of what the SLAC professor wrote upthread. Our populations have similar challenges. I hear similar reflections from colleagues.

I think everyone has pretty well covered that these young adults have expectations that they will be coddled. They don't know how to take notes, either from reading material or lectures, expect that they will get study guides, that reading through that at the last minute is sufficient to do well in class (it's necessary, but not sufficient), that the assigned reading is somehow optional, ....

I make myself quite available to help out my students, but am never taken up on this, until the end of semesters, when all of a sudden, half the class wants to know how they can bring their grades up, could I give them extra credit, can I read drafts of their work before submission, etc. Then there are the thousand questions about how the grading actually works, what the class rules are, what's covered in class (!!!). Things that are explained on the first day of class, and talked about periodically.

Additionally, a lot of students have absolutely no idea how to interact with their teachers. One does not address their instructors as one would their peers (there might be exceptions for grad students). There is an expectation that emails use correctly spelled words, in proper context, with decent grammar, and punctuation. It's not the same as texting one's friends. Emails have to be signed with their name. One does not call in mommy and daddy if things go sideways. I could go on. If the parents just taught their kids some basic life skills, and instilled decent study habits, life would be so much easier.

Interesting.. this is what I have found. Now that some classes are on Zoom or Teams kids can transcript the class, copy and past the transcript then edit it to make notes for the class. That seems way more advanced than 5 years ago, but that's just me.

There was a complaint that the professor was not clear, of course the professor disagreed. But we went back to the transcript and the professor said...

the key components of X are 1) 2) and #5... Hmm where are 3 and 4. Sure a simple mistake, but when asked what 3 and 4 were he was mad and said "take better notes", but the kids had the transcript... 5 years ago the kids would not have had proof and so the professor was wrong.

Then the same professor said there are 2 key elements to X so he names X, Y and Z.. but that is 3 elements. Then later in the transcript he said there were 3 key elements and named A, B and C... 3 totally different element.

When students answer the 3 key elements as X, Y and Z... they were marked down... but oops! back to the transcript.

I get it, professors now are being held accountable and it's hard but is it really the students?

I think it's a combination of both, IMO. Kids today expect someone to fix any issues they have, many have not learned how to deal with any issues that don't go smoothly for them.

However, yes many profs do make mistakes and are unwilling to own them.
I can recall it happening several times when I was in college (at a T20 school, so largely smart motivated kids). My favorite: had a basic writing class that was required. I was taking it my 3rd year due to double majoring and not having space until then--so I was a junior and had written many papers by then, not the typical freshman in the course. So for this writing class I took the approach first draft all I did was write, run spell check and make sure it was properly formatted and I had answered the rubric completely. Then for next turned in draft I would actually edit it myself along with the comments the prof had provided. Next iteration, I'd do the same thing---prof provided comments after each draft. After the 2nd draft, literally every comment/suggestion to change marked in RED was a proposal to change my paper back to EXACTLY what I had written the first time. So I (being the sarcastic smart ass that I was/am) met with the professor and took in my original with his markups and my 2nd draft with markups and basically asked him "so which way do you actually want it? Because all the changes I made for 2nd draft were your suggestions, and now you want me to change it back to my original way based on the 2nd draft comments. So just let me know what it is you really want me to do and I will do it that way". Not sure the prof knew what to do---he was used to dealing with freshman in this course, and I was a seasoned junior who had written many, many 10-15 page more advanced papers already, so these 2-3 page papers were quite simple and easy for me. So comments are helpful if there is thought put into them, but comments to suggest changes just for the hell of it are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just an adjunct, teaching at a state U, so take this FWIW. I agree with A LOT of what the SLAC professor wrote upthread. Our populations have similar challenges. I hear similar reflections from colleagues.

I think everyone has pretty well covered that these young adults have expectations that they will be coddled. They don't know how to take notes, either from reading material or lectures, expect that they will get study guides, that reading through that at the last minute is sufficient to do well in class (it's necessary, but not sufficient), that the assigned reading is somehow optional, ....

I make myself quite available to help out my students, but am never taken up on this, until the end of semesters, when all of a sudden, half the class wants to know how they can bring their grades up, could I give them extra credit, can I read drafts of their work before submission, etc. Then there are the thousand questions about how the grading actually works, what the class rules are, what's covered in class (!!!). Things that are explained on the first day of class, and talked about periodically.

Additionally, a lot of students have absolutely no idea how to interact with their teachers. One does not address their instructors as one would their peers (there might be exceptions for grad students). There is an expectation that emails use correctly spelled words, in proper context, with decent grammar, and punctuation. It's not the same as texting one's friends. Emails have to be signed with their name. One does not call in mommy and daddy if things go sideways. I could go on. If the parents just taught their kids some basic life skills, and instilled decent study habits, life would be so much easier.

Interesting.. this is what I have found. Now that some classes are on Zoom or Teams kids can transcript the class, copy and past the transcript then edit it to make notes for the class. That seems way more advanced than 5 years ago, but that's just me.

There was a complaint that the professor was not clear, of course the professor disagreed. But we went back to the transcript and the professor said...

the key components of X are 1) 2) and #5... Hmm where are 3 and 4. Sure a simple mistake, but when asked what 3 and 4 were he was mad and said "take better notes", but the kids had the transcript... 5 years ago the kids would not have had proof and so the professor was wrong.

Then the same professor said there are 2 key elements to X so he names X, Y and Z.. but that is 3 elements. Then later in the transcript he said there were 3 key elements and named A, B and C... 3 totally different element.

When students answer the 3 key elements as X, Y and Z... they were marked down... but oops! back to the transcript.

I get it, professors now are being held accountable and it's hard but is it really the students?

I think it's a combination of both, IMO. Kids today expect someone to fix any issues they have, many have not learned how to deal with any issues that don't go smoothly for them.

However, yes many profs do make mistakes and are unwilling to own them.
I can recall it happening several times when I was in college (at a T20 school, so largely smart motivated kids). My favorite: had a basic writing class that was required. I was taking it my 3rd year due to double majoring and not having space until then--so I was a junior and had written many papers by then, not the typical freshman in the course. So for this writing class I took the approach first draft all I did was write, run spell check and make sure it was properly formatted and I had answered the rubric completely. Then for next turned in draft I would actually edit it myself along with the comments the prof had provided. Next iteration, I'd do the same thing---prof provided comments after each draft. After the 2nd draft, literally every comment/suggestion to change marked in RED was a proposal to change my paper back to EXACTLY what I had written the first time. So I (being the sarcastic smart ass that I was/am) met with the professor and took in my original with his markups and my 2nd draft with markups and basically asked him "so which way do you actually want it? Because all the changes I made for 2nd draft were your suggestions, and now you want me to change it back to my original way based on the 2nd draft comments. So just let me know what it is you really want me to do and I will do it that way". Not sure the prof knew what to do---he was used to dealing with freshman in this course, and I was a seasoned junior who had written many, many 10-15 page more advanced papers already, so these 2-3 page papers were quite simple and easy for me. So comments are helpful if there is thought put into them, but comments to suggest changes just for the hell of it are not.

Of course there are immature 17 year olds nobody is denying that, I agree kids probably need more help.

Compared to 20 years ago. You had a map and a list of classes. If you looked lost a kind upperclassman would say “what building are you looking for” and a week later you were good to go.

Now you have a computer with 5 new apps to learn in 2 weeks otherwise you miss your 1st assignment. I get it students are baffled and confused and need their hand held way more than 20 years ago.

Also I think your point is a great one. Maybe it’s not that students are behind but it’s that they are often savvy, professors are not use to that. Hey here’s the transcript of your lecture, or here are the changes you made but here are your old comments.

The biggest problem is that neither professors nor students are giving each other grace.

I had to teach a surgeon how do use a computer mouse, (the double tap changed) a student saw me doing that and scoffed that the professor wasn’t that smart. Not everyone is great at everything.

Give each other some grace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just an adjunct, teaching at a state U, so take this FWIW. I agree with A LOT of what the SLAC professor wrote upthread. Our populations have similar challenges. I hear similar reflections from colleagues.

I think everyone has pretty well covered that these young adults have expectations that they will be coddled. They don't know how to take notes, either from reading material or lectures, expect that they will get study guides, that reading through that at the last minute is sufficient to do well in class (it's necessary, but not sufficient), that the assigned reading is somehow optional, ....

I make myself quite available to help out my students, but am never taken up on this, until the end of semesters, when all of a sudden, half the class wants to know how they can bring their grades up, could I give them extra credit, can I read drafts of their work before submission, etc. Then there are the thousand questions about how the grading actually works, what the class rules are, what's covered in class (!!!). Things that are explained on the first day of class, and talked about periodically.

Additionally, a lot of students have absolutely no idea how to interact with their teachers. One does not address their instructors as one would their peers (there might be exceptions for grad students). There is an expectation that emails use correctly spelled words, in proper context, with decent grammar, and punctuation. It's not the same as texting one's friends. Emails have to be signed with their name. One does not call in mommy and daddy if things go sideways. I could go on. If the parents just taught their kids some basic life skills, and instilled decent study habits, life would be so much easier.

OP / thanks you Adjunct Prof! I don’t think you should say “just” since adjuncts do so much of the teaching at many universities and you probably have a very good idea of what is going on.

We will probably encourage DC to get writing skills coaching prior to college. I agree that texting style communication is not appropriate for communicating with professors and TAs.

I will add “talk to professors and TAs early on in semesters” as advice for DC.

We are working on the life skills and study habits. I don’t plan on contacting professors or TAs (and never did for older DC).

It is very helpful to hear from college professors such as yourself about how our children can get more out of their college years.

Thank you

In an interesting coincidence, communications with professors came up among colleagues today. Because one received an email starting with 'Hey!'. Others piped in with their experiences - 'Hey First Name!', 'Yo!', 'Yo First Name', and so on. What was sad is that one said that when students would write like this, she would write a gentle response to essentially say that it's her job as an educator to make sure that her kids learned how to write in a professional manner, and then offer her corrections, but has stopped doing so due to antagonistic responses from previous students. I'm happy to say that I have never had students respond negatively to corrections of that sort, although a not insignificant percentage would ignore it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just an adjunct, teaching at a state U, so take this FWIW. I agree with A LOT of what the SLAC professor wrote upthread. Our populations have similar challenges. I hear similar reflections from colleagues.

I think everyone has pretty well covered that these young adults have expectations that they will be coddled. They don't know how to take notes, either from reading material or lectures, expect that they will get study guides, that reading through that at the last minute is sufficient to do well in class (it's necessary, but not sufficient), that the assigned reading is somehow optional, ....

I make myself quite available to help out my students, but am never taken up on this, until the end of semesters, when all of a sudden, half the class wants to know how they can bring their grades up, could I give them extra credit, can I read drafts of their work before submission, etc. Then there are the thousand questions about how the grading actually works, what the class rules are, what's covered in class (!!!). Things that are explained on the first day of class, and talked about periodically.

Additionally, a lot of students have absolutely no idea how to interact with their teachers. One does not address their instructors as one would their peers (there might be exceptions for grad students). There is an expectation that emails use correctly spelled words, in proper context, with decent grammar, and punctuation. It's not the same as texting one's friends. Emails have to be signed with their name. One does not call in mommy and daddy if things go sideways. I could go on. If the parents just taught their kids some basic life skills, and instilled decent study habits, life would be so much easier.

OP / thanks you Adjunct Prof! I don’t think you should say “just” since adjuncts do so much of the teaching at many universities and you probably have a very good idea of what is going on.

We will probably encourage DC to get writing skills coaching prior to college. I agree that texting style communication is not appropriate for communicating with professors and TAs.

I will add “talk to professors and TAs early on in semesters” as advice for DC.

We are working on the life skills and study habits. I don’t plan on contacting professors or TAs (and never did for older DC).

It is very helpful to hear from college professors such as yourself about how our children can get more out of their college years.

Thank you

In an interesting coincidence, communications with professors came up among colleagues today. Because one received an email starting with 'Hey!'. Others piped in with their experiences - 'Hey First Name!', 'Yo!', 'Yo First Name', and so on. What was sad is that one said that when students would write like this, she would write a gentle response to essentially say that it's her job as an educator to make sure that her kids learned how to write in a professional manner, and then offer her corrections, but has stopped doing so due to antagonistic responses from previous students. I'm happy to say that I have never had students respond negatively to corrections of that sort, although a not insignificant percentage would ignore it.

When you send emails to coworkers you use formal language?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just an adjunct, teaching at a state U, so take this FWIW. I agree with A LOT of what the SLAC professor wrote upthread. Our populations have similar challenges. I hear similar reflections from colleagues.

I think everyone has pretty well covered that these young adults have expectations that they will be coddled. They don't know how to take notes, either from reading material or lectures, expect that they will get study guides, that reading through that at the last minute is sufficient to do well in class (it's necessary, but not sufficient), that the assigned reading is somehow optional, ....

I make myself quite available to help out my students, but am never taken up on this, until the end of semesters, when all of a sudden, half the class wants to know how they can bring their grades up, could I give them extra credit, can I read drafts of their work before submission, etc. Then there are the thousand questions about how the grading actually works, what the class rules are, what's covered in class (!!!). Things that are explained on the first day of class, and talked about periodically.

Additionally, a lot of students have absolutely no idea how to interact with their teachers. One does not address their instructors as one would their peers (there might be exceptions for grad students). There is an expectation that emails use correctly spelled words, in proper context, with decent grammar, and punctuation. It's not the same as texting one's friends. Emails have to be signed with their name. One does not call in mommy and daddy if things go sideways. I could go on. If the parents just taught their kids some basic life skills, and instilled decent study habits, life would be so much easier.

OP / thanks you Adjunct Prof! I don’t think you should say “just” since adjuncts do so much of the teaching at many universities and you probably have a very good idea of what is going on.

We will probably encourage DC to get writing skills coaching prior to college. I agree that texting style communication is not appropriate for communicating with professors and TAs.

I will add “talk to professors and TAs early on in semesters” as advice for DC.

We are working on the life skills and study habits. I don’t plan on contacting professors or TAs (and never did for older DC).

It is very helpful to hear from college professors such as yourself about how our children can get more out of their college years.

Thank you

In an interesting coincidence, communications with professors came up among colleagues today. Because one received an email starting with 'Hey!'. Others piped in with their experiences - 'Hey First Name!', 'Yo!', 'Yo First Name', and so on. What was sad is that one said that when students would write like this, she would write a gentle response to essentially say that it's her job as an educator to make sure that her kids learned how to write in a professional manner, and then offer her corrections, but has stopped doing so due to antagonistic responses from previous students. I'm happy to say that I have never had students respond negatively to corrections of that sort, although a not insignificant percentage would ignore it.

When you send emails to coworkers you use formal language?

Depends on the coworker, how they’re addressed. Regardless of my relationship with them, the way I write to them professionally, is absolutely more formal than when I say, text them.

Professors are not a peer group for students.

[Anonymous]

I literally can’t read these responses anymore. It is so maddening. I really hope the attitude filled, antagonistic poster doesn’t behave this way at work or in personal relationships. How can anyone bear to be around them???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just an adjunct, teaching at a state U, so take this FWIW. I agree with A LOT of what the SLAC professor wrote upthread. Our populations have similar challenges. I hear similar reflections from colleagues.

I think everyone has pretty well covered that these young adults have expectations that they will be coddled. They don't know how to take notes, either from reading material or lectures, expect that they will get study guides, that reading through that at the last minute is sufficient to do well in class (it's necessary, but not sufficient), that the assigned reading is somehow optional, ....

I make myself quite available to help out my students, but am never taken up on this, until the end of semesters, when all of a sudden, half the class wants to know how they can bring their grades up, could I give them extra credit, can I read drafts of their work before submission, etc. Then there are the thousand questions about how the grading actually works, what the class rules are, what's covered in class (!!!). Things that are explained on the first day of class, and talked about periodically.

Additionally, a lot of students have absolutely no idea how to interact with their teachers. One does not address their instructors as one would their peers (there might be exceptions for grad students). There is an expectation that emails use correctly spelled words, in proper context, with decent grammar, and punctuation. It's not the same as texting one's friends. Emails have to be signed with their name. One does not call in mommy and daddy if things go sideways. I could go on. If the parents just taught their kids some basic life skills, and instilled decent study habits, life would be so much easier.

OP / thanks you Adjunct Prof! I don’t think you should say “just” since adjuncts do so much of the teaching at many universities and you probably have a very good idea of what is going on.

We will probably encourage DC to get writing skills coaching prior to college. I agree that texting style communication is not appropriate for communicating with professors and TAs.

I will add “talk to professors and TAs early on in semesters” as advice for DC.

We are working on the life skills and study habits. I don’t plan on contacting professors or TAs (and never did for older DC).

It is very helpful to hear from college professors such as yourself about how our children can get more out of their college years.

Thank you

In an interesting coincidence, communications with professors came up among colleagues today. Because one received an email starting with 'Hey!'. Others piped in with their experiences - 'Hey First Name!', 'Yo!', 'Yo First Name', and so on. What was sad is that one said that when students would write like this, she would write a gentle response to essentially say that it's her job as an educator to make sure that her kids learned how to write in a professional manner, and then offer her corrections, but has stopped doing so due to antagonistic responses from previous students. I'm happy to say that I have never had students respond negatively to corrections of that sort, although a not insignificant percentage would ignore it.

When you send emails to coworkers you use formal language?

Depends on the coworker, how they’re addressed. Regardless of my relationship with them, the way I write to them professionally, is absolutely more formal than when I say, text them.

Professors are not a peer group for students.

Professors should explain how emails work in real life and not every email is a formal address. It's a waste of time.

I just checked my emails from professors and 1/10 of them start with "Hey" or "Can you call me" or "Hello". Which are all fine for this type of communication. Email is transitory, quick form of communication. It's not a letter, they are having a conversation.

If they are asking for something formal like a letter of recommendation sure it should be formal, but if it simply is asking a question about an assignment it's not formal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I literally can’t read these responses anymore. It is so maddening. I really hope the attitude filled, antagonistic poster doesn’t behave this way at work or in personal relationships. How can anyone bear to be around them???

You can't handle being coddled and this whole thread is about people needing to be coddled. Ironic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The New Infantilism began around 15 or 20 years ago. Students barely read anymore. And it's gotten worse with social media "discourse" becoming so important. They're more interested in Tiktok than Tolstoy.

Few people were ever interested in Tolstoy (I was one). But the kids who get into universities that will teach Tolstoy well are not interested in Tolstoy; and the kids who read Tolstoy in high school are not getting into those universities.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SLAC prof here. Haven't read all the responses, too tired from being overworked. I have seen a drop, not necessarily a big drop, but a significant one, over the past 20+ years of teaching at different institutions. Some of it began before the pandemic, especially mental health, but the pandemic exacerbated it in terms of students not being accountable for turning in work on time, etc. I've also seen a change in critical thinking that I think has at least two root causes - being taught to take a test in high school (even or especially even APs), but also the post-truth era. Lastly, I might only speak for my current institution here, but we've made intentional DEI efforts and our recruiting has changed. This is partially because of the social justice aspect of making a SLAC education more accessible to different kinds of students, but it also has to do with the demographic cliff. This has led to recruiting students from high schools and family environments that have not enabled adequate preparation for college. This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.

Universities need to and are shifting to the wraparound services that they provide - ranging from more mental health supports, to increased accommodations and social and financial supports. This is necessary for students to succeed. But it is also taxing for an institution and the realities of grade inflation and students slipping through the cracks can and does occur.

OP

Thank you SLAC professor.

That is an interesting point about the post truth era.. what does this mean in terms of higher education? Don’t students still have to back up theoretical claims with empirical or scientific evidence?

Also interesting that you have observed a drop over such a long time.

Agree that mental health care is necessary for learning.

Thanks for your reply.

Interesting the professor thinks the students have the ability to learn and perform and have great potential but since they haven’t had as many privileges they consider the students “less”.

OP -
He or she can speak for themself but I personally did not interpret his remarks in that way .

“This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.”

To me, she or he is saying that colleges are wrestling with DEI challenges - they want to be inclusive of a broader field of students but are aware that students from disadvantaged schools or homes face significant obstacles in college preparedness. That does not mean the challenges can’t be overcome but more work and attention is needed by colleges and professors to help them to adapt and succeed.

That is how I interpreted the comments anyway.

SLAC prof here again, yes, this is what I meant. And yes, as a professor I do invest more time with these students, as it is my job at a SLAC to work with students. I have no TA and my students benefit from one on one conversations. My students are human beings to me, not just a group of numbers or labels.

Yet you categorize some not even knowing their background as "the cliff kids" or "DEI efforts". You could easily categorize them as "less coddled" and it would be apt and accurate yet you don't, you categorize them as less and the "coddled and tutored" as more.

There are no SLACs without tutors and writing centers.

it's okay, I get it, you have been a professor for 20 years, professors are luddites by nature and the world is passing you by in many ways and it's hard to keep up. But, have you ever just stopped to think, hey maybe I'm hitting the cliff, maybe I'm not the one keeping up.

Zoom, texting, bulletin boards, online lectures... every job has new things to learn every year, maybe it's just too much for you.

DP: Wow, your stereotypes are telling.

Perhaps or maybe the “professor” could do some self reflection and ask for mentoring from a younger colleague to get back up to speed.

It happens in every profession. There is no shame in falling behind the curve sometimes. We can’t always be at the top of our game for 20+ straight years.

Often it’s helpful to step back take time to identify your strengths and weaknesses and do better.

The world is moving quickly.

NP. You are just awful.

DP. Agreed. That PP sounds so arrogant and ignorant. Sometimes the anti-educational trolling on this board feels political even when it isn't overt. I wish we had logins for this board to see how much of this comes from the same source(s). It would at least temper the antagonism.

It's bizarre that you can't even understand that professors are human doing jobs and they are very, very, very imperfect.

I'm not antagonistic about it but you sure seem triggered. I am simply stating facts, perhaps not couching it with flowery language to protect fragile egos, but the reality is that teaching is a whole new world. Older teachers are being outpaced by technology and new ways to communicate.

I remember when professors had typists and were appalled that they would have to type their own research with a word processor, some never did.

Now there is Canvas and email and texting and zoom and recordings... I feel for professors but in what other profession can you just not be good at your job and then everybody blames their clients.

It is bizarre that you can’t understand how unnecessarily antagonistic, over bearing and generally unhelpful your inputs were.

They offered nothing regarding insights into whether college preparedness has changed and attacked a LAS professor for simply telling their experience.

It actually does, but your too triggered to read this input and think critically about it. Perhaps you're a new student who has not been taught reading comprehension and critical thinking.

It was a consensus opinion that your critique was mean and unhelpful .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I literally can’t read these responses anymore. It is so maddening. I really hope the attitude filled, antagonistic poster doesn’t behave this way at work or in personal relationships. How can anyone bear to be around them???

You can't handle being coddled and this whole thread is about people needing to be coddled. Ironic.

I really hope you are not an undergrad professor.

This thread has been about way more than that. The opposite actually. Advice for parents to encourage their HS students to communicate in respectful ways with professors and TAs, be on time for classes and handing in assignments, communicate early in semesters about any areas they are struggling with and work on writing skills in advance. These measures are all pro active to help students get more out of their college journeys.

Regarding mental health, What you call coddling is responding in realistic ways to mental health crisis among our youth now. The pandemic accelerated severe teen mental health challenges but they have been growing for a while. Teen mental health care facilities are overflowing and there is a shortage of teen psychiatrists and therapists. Mental health affects learning in major ways and it is great that colleges are trying to be realistic about providing supports. This is not coddling - thisbis dealing with reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not antagonistic about it but you sure seem triggered. I am simply stating facts, perhaps not couching it with flowery language to protect fragile egos, but the reality is that teaching is a whole new world. Older teachers are being outpaced by technology and new ways to communicate.

I remember when professors had typists and were appalled that they would have to type their own research with a word processor, some never did.

Now there is Canvas and email and texting and zoom and recordings... I feel for professors but in what other profession can you just not be good at your job and then everybody blames their clients.

I’m a new poster who’s the parent of a college student who’s meeting deadlines and doing well.

Certainly, professors can be jerks, but you’re the only one being awful and mean in this thread.

You’re being awful because you are, in effect, calling the professors racist, then being incredibly insulting and ageist.

You’re also being awful by showing your high level of privilege and assuming as a given that SLACs all have effective, Columbia-level support services.

You’re like someone who scoffs at a student who forgets a lunch at home and asks, “Why don’t you just call the butler?”

Not every student comes from a house with a butler.

Not every SLAC has TAs or a writing center that can do much for a student with very weak writing skills.

Columbia is not a SLAC.

Name a SLAC that does not have a writing center.

I didn't call the professor racist, I said they have blinders on, perhaps it's a white girl with a baby going to college that they treat differently... that's not race and it might not even be SES. But they treat students one way based on something due to myopic thinking. They expect every student to fit one singluar riduculously tiny mold.

I had a professor ask me if they could fix the speaker to Teams because they heard children in the background... during COVID. Yea sorry some student's have children, get over it. He discussed marking them down for participation... not because they did not participate, not because they didn't have good feedback, but because it bothered him that he "heard a child's voice".

Kids forget lunch, ask 3 friends for a granola bar or go hungry, natural consequences.

I neither awful nor mean. I am just stating facts about experiences that happen behind the scenes in a professor's office. I agree it's horrible, it sounds horrible, it's not made up.

It's odd you are mad at me because I am showing what really goes on, but you're not mad that professors do these things.

Go ahead, shoot the messenger.

I think most people objected to your message style which was obnoxious . Your message was not designed to help parents learn how they could prepare their Hs students better but to attack a peer for expressing her or his experiences.

Your message style needs a lot of work. You were not clear and masked your feedback in disdain rather than constructive good will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College is the new high school. Kids coming in are like middle school students from a decade or two ago. Poor reading and writing skills. Want to do corrections and have trouble with deadlines. Sure COVID made it worse but was getting progressively worse before COVID. I chalk it up to the advent of everyone getting a participation trophy.

Not all of them. My son went to a Catholic high school. The only change made by his school during Covid was that finals were optional for two years (and if you took them and they lowered your grade, you were stuck with it). He is an excellent writer. If something was more than a day late, he got a zero. There were no retakes and the lowest grade you could get was a zero, not a 50%. You are describing students coming from public schools where these policies were in place.

But the main problem with Catholic high schools is that the curriculum is not nearly as rigorous as in public schools. No need for retakes when the tests are so easy, amirite?

No, urnotrite.