Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question is for the college professors among us: Are professors at all universities seeing a big drop in college preparedness among undergraduates ? I have heard that that is the case at some very strong universities. I presume this is related to the Pandemic.

If so, what areas are undergrad college professors seeing the biggest skill set weaknesses in? Is it technical academic skills or social skills or both?

What if anything, do you think high school students should be doing to be better prepared for college ?

Thanks in advance

We need to stop blaming COVID for everything... Parents will complain about their kids having "homework", they will get mad if they have to study for a test or complete a project. Also they think they can have unlimited retakes and won't turn anything in...

So you would prefer to pretend that COVID never happened and had no impact on students whatsoever?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question is for the college professors among us: Are professors at all universities seeing a big drop in college preparedness among undergraduates ? I have heard that that is the case at some very strong universities. I presume this is related to the Pandemic.

If so, what areas are undergrad college professors seeing the biggest skill set weaknesses in? Is it technical academic skills or social skills or both?

What if anything, do you think high school students should be doing to be better prepared for college ?

Thanks in advance

We need to stop blaming COVID for everything... Parents will complain about their kids having "homework", they will get mad if they have to study for a test or complete a project. Also they think they can have unlimited retakes and won't turn anything in...

So you would prefer to pretend that COVID never happened and had no impact on students whatsoever?

Let's face it, it had effect mostly on lazy students. Conscientious students did fine or better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question is for the college professors among us: Are professors at all universities seeing a big drop in college preparedness among undergraduates ? I have heard that that is the case at some very strong universities. I presume this is related to the Pandemic.

If so, what areas are undergrad college professors seeing the biggest skill set weaknesses in? Is it technical academic skills or social skills or both?

What if anything, do you think high school students should be doing to be better prepared for college ?

Thanks in advance

We need to stop blaming COVID for everything... Parents will complain about their kids having "homework", they will get mad if they have to study for a test or complete a project. Also they think they can have unlimited retakes and won't turn anything in...

So you would prefer to pretend that COVID never happened and had no impact on students whatsoever?

Let's face it, it had effect mostly on lazy students. Conscientious students did fine or better.

Absolute ignorant nonsense.


There are many reasons why some more vulnerable students were more at risk than others. You can cast all the negative blaming labels on students who experienced mental health crises and academic drops that you like but the reality is the Pandemic had highly negative impacts on many students. It happened and the youth mental health crisis has not gone away. Youth have a highly uncertain future to deal with but without college degrees their futures are even more uncertain.

Thank God colleges are taking it seriously.

That does not mean students don’t have to work hard and that parents don’t need to prepare them better for adult life.

College preparedness is multi layered and takes team work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question is for the college professors among us: Are professors at all universities seeing a big drop in college preparedness among undergraduates ? I have heard that that is the case at some very strong universities. I presume this is related to the Pandemic.

If so, what areas are undergrad college professors seeing the biggest skill set weaknesses in? Is it technical academic skills or social skills or both?

What if anything, do you think high school students should be doing to be better prepared for college ?

Thanks in advance

We need to stop blaming COVID for everything... Parents will complain about their kids having "homework", they will get mad if they have to study for a test or complete a project. Also they think they can have unlimited retakes and won't turn anything in...

So you would prefer to pretend that COVID never happened and had no impact on students whatsoever?

Let's face it, it had effect mostly on lazy students. Conscientious students did fine or better.

Absolute ignorant nonsense.


There are many reasons why some more vulnerable students were more at risk than others. You can cast all the negative blaming labels on students who experienced mental health crises and academic drops that you like but the reality is the Pandemic had highly negative impacts on many students. It happened and the youth mental health crisis has not gone away. Youth have a highly uncertain future to deal with but without college degrees their futures are even more uncertain.

Thank God colleges are taking it seriously.

That does not mean students don’t have to work hard and that parents don’t need to prepare them better for adult life.

College preparedness is multi layered and takes team work.

This comes from all the coddling, and all participants get trophies attitude. Now we have no testing, out of control grade inflation, equity-based math and reading resulting in elementary school kids unable to read and do additions, some schools are even eliminating letter grades etc. etc. and you wonder why US places almost LAST of OECD countries in reading, math and science. With the dollar about to lose its reserve currency status in 5-10 years, we cannot rest on past laurels anymore. Enough is enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SLAC prof here. Haven't read all the responses, too tired from being overworked. I have seen a drop, not necessarily a big drop, but a significant one, over the past 20+ years of teaching at different institutions. Some of it began before the pandemic, especially mental health, but the pandemic exacerbated it in terms of students not being accountable for turning in work on time, etc. I've also seen a change in critical thinking that I think has at least two root causes - being taught to take a test in high school (even or especially even APs), but also the post-truth era. Lastly, I might only speak for my current institution here, but we've made intentional DEI efforts and our recruiting has changed. This is partially because of the social justice aspect of making a SLAC education more accessible to different kinds of students, but it also has to do with the demographic cliff. This has led to recruiting students from high schools and family environments that have not enabled adequate preparation for college. This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.

Universities need to and are shifting to the wraparound services that they provide - ranging from more mental health supports, to increased accommodations and social and financial supports. This is necessary for students to succeed. But it is also taxing for an institution and the realities of grade inflation and students slipping through the cracks can and does occur.

OP

Thank you SLAC professor.

That is an interesting point about the post truth era.. what does this mean in terms of higher education? Don’t students still have to back up theoretical claims with empirical or scientific evidence?

Also interesting that you have observed a drop over such a long time.

Agree that mental health care is necessary for learning.

Thanks for your reply.

Interesting the professor thinks the students have the ability to learn and perform and have great potential but since they haven’t had as many privileges they consider the students “less”.

OP -
He or she can speak for themself but I personally did not interpret his remarks in that way .

“This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.”

To me, she or he is saying that colleges are wrestling with DEI challenges - they want to be inclusive of a broader field of students but are aware that students from disadvantaged schools or homes face significant obstacles in college preparedness. That does not mean the challenges can’t be overcome but more work and attention is needed by colleges and professors to help them to adapt and succeed.

That is how I interpreted the comments anyway.

SLAC prof here again, yes, this is what I meant. And yes, as a professor I do invest more time with these students, as it is my job at a SLAC to work with students. I have no TA and my students benefit from one on one conversations. My students are human beings to me, not just a group of numbers or labels.

Yet you categorize some not even knowing their background as "the cliff kids" or "DEI efforts". You could easily categorize them as "less coddled" and it would be apt and accurate yet you don't, you categorize them as less and the "coddled and tutored" as more.

There are no SLACs without tutors and writing centers.

it's okay, I get it, you have been a professor for 20 years, professors are luddites by nature and the world is passing you by in many ways and it's hard to keep up. But, have you ever just stopped to think, hey maybe I'm hitting the cliff, maybe I'm not the one keeping up.

Zoom, texting, bulletin boards, online lectures... every job has new things to learn every year, maybe it's just too much for you.

DP: Wow, your stereotypes are telling.

Perhaps or maybe the “professor” could do some self reflection and ask for mentoring from a younger colleague to get back up to speed.

It happens in every profession. There is no shame in falling behind the curve sometimes. We can’t always be at the top of our game for 20+ straight years.

Often it’s helpful to step back take time to identify your strengths and weaknesses and do better.

The world is moving quickly.

NP. You are just awful.

DP. Agreed. That PP sounds so arrogant and ignorant. Sometimes the anti-educational trolling on this board feels political even when it isn't overt. I wish we had logins for this board to see how much of this comes from the same source(s). It would at least temper the antagonism.

It's bizarre that you can't even understand that professors are human doing jobs and they are very, very, very imperfect.

I'm not antagonistic about it but you sure seem triggered. I am simply stating facts, perhaps not couching it with flowery language to protect fragile egos, but the reality is that teaching is a whole new world. Older teachers are being outpaced by technology and new ways to communicate.

I remember when professors had typists and were appalled that they would have to type their own research with a word processor, some never did.

Now there is Canvas and email and texting and zoom and recordings... I feel for professors but in what other profession can you just not be good at your job and then everybody blames their clients.

It is bizarre that you can’t understand how unnecessarily antagonistic, over bearing and generally unhelpful your inputs were.

They offered nothing regarding insights into whether college preparedness has changed and attacked a LAS professor for simply telling their experience.

It actually does, but your too triggered to read this input and think critically about it. Perhaps you're a new student who has not been taught reading comprehension and critical thinking.

It was a consensus opinion that your critique was mean and unhelpful .

Nope try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SLAC prof here. Haven't read all the responses, too tired from being overworked. I have seen a drop, not necessarily a big drop, but a significant one, over the past 20+ years of teaching at different institutions. Some of it began before the pandemic, especially mental health, but the pandemic exacerbated it in terms of students not being accountable for turning in work on time, etc. I've also seen a change in critical thinking that I think has at least two root causes - being taught to take a test in high school (even or especially even APs), but also the post-truth era. Lastly, I might only speak for my current institution here, but we've made intentional DEI efforts and our recruiting has changed. This is partially because of the social justice aspect of making a SLAC education more accessible to different kinds of students, but it also has to do with the demographic cliff. This has led to recruiting students from high schools and family environments that have not enabled adequate preparation for college. This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.

Universities need to and are shifting to the wraparound services that they provide - ranging from more mental health supports, to increased accommodations and social and financial supports. This is necessary for students to succeed. But it is also taxing for an institution and the realities of grade inflation and students slipping through the cracks can and does occur.

OP

Thank you SLAC professor.

That is an interesting point about the post truth era.. what does this mean in terms of higher education? Don’t students still have to back up theoretical claims with empirical or scientific evidence?

Also interesting that you have observed a drop over such a long time.

Agree that mental health care is necessary for learning.

Thanks for your reply.

Interesting the professor thinks the students have the ability to learn and perform and have great potential but since they haven’t had as many privileges they consider the students “less”.

OP -
He or she can speak for themself but I personally did not interpret his remarks in that way .

“This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.”

To me, she or he is saying that colleges are wrestling with DEI challenges - they want to be inclusive of a broader field of students but are aware that students from disadvantaged schools or homes face significant obstacles in college preparedness. That does not mean the challenges can’t be overcome but more work and attention is needed by colleges and professors to help them to adapt and succeed.

That is how I interpreted the comments anyway.

SLAC prof here again, yes, this is what I meant. And yes, as a professor I do invest more time with these students, as it is my job at a SLAC to work with students. I have no TA and my students benefit from one on one conversations. My students are human beings to me, not just a group of numbers or labels.

Yet you categorize some not even knowing their background as "the cliff kids" or "DEI efforts". You could easily categorize them as "less coddled" and it would be apt and accurate yet you don't, you categorize them as less and the "coddled and tutored" as more.

There are no SLACs without tutors and writing centers.

it's okay, I get it, you have been a professor for 20 years, professors are luddites by nature and the world is passing you by in many ways and it's hard to keep up. But, have you ever just stopped to think, hey maybe I'm hitting the cliff, maybe I'm not the one keeping up.

Zoom, texting, bulletin boards, online lectures... every job has new things to learn every year, maybe it's just too much for you.

DP: Wow, your stereotypes are telling.

Perhaps or maybe the “professor” could do some self reflection and ask for mentoring from a younger colleague to get back up to speed.

It happens in every profession. There is no shame in falling behind the curve sometimes. We can’t always be at the top of our game for 20+ straight years.

Often it’s helpful to step back take time to identify your strengths and weaknesses and do better.

The world is moving quickly.

NP. You are just awful.

DP. Agreed. That PP sounds so arrogant and ignorant. Sometimes the anti-educational trolling on this board feels political even when it isn't overt. I wish we had logins for this board to see how much of this comes from the same source(s). It would at least temper the antagonism.

It's bizarre that you can't even understand that professors are human doing jobs and they are very, very, very imperfect.

I'm not antagonistic about it but you sure seem triggered. I am simply stating facts, perhaps not couching it with flowery language to protect fragile egos, but the reality is that teaching is a whole new world. Older teachers are being outpaced by technology and new ways to communicate.

I remember when professors had typists and were appalled that they would have to type their own research with a word processor, some never did.

Now there is Canvas and email and texting and zoom and recordings... I feel for professors but in what other profession can you just not be good at your job and then everybody blames their clients.

It is bizarre that you can’t understand how unnecessarily antagonistic, over bearing and generally unhelpful your inputs were.

They offered nothing regarding insights into whether college preparedness has changed and attacked a LAS professor for simply telling their experience.

It actually does, but your too triggered to read this input and think critically about it. Perhaps you're a new student who has not been taught reading comprehension and critical thinking.

It was a consensus opinion that your critique was mean and unhelpful .

Nope try again.

Leave please. No one cares what you have to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SLAC prof here. Haven't read all the responses, too tired from being overworked. I have seen a drop, not necessarily a big drop, but a significant one, over the past 20+ years of teaching at different institutions. Some of it began before the pandemic, especially mental health, but the pandemic exacerbated it in terms of students not being accountable for turning in work on time, etc. I've also seen a change in critical thinking that I think has at least two root causes - being taught to take a test in high school (even or especially even APs), but also the post-truth era. Lastly, I might only speak for my current institution here, but we've made intentional DEI efforts and our recruiting has changed. This is partially because of the social justice aspect of making a SLAC education more accessible to different kinds of students, but it also has to do with the demographic cliff. This has led to recruiting students from high schools and family environments that have not enabled adequate preparation for college. This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.

Universities need to and are shifting to the wraparound services that they provide - ranging from more mental health supports, to increased accommodations and social and financial supports. This is necessary for students to succeed. But it is also taxing for an institution and the realities of grade inflation and students slipping through the cracks can and does occur.

OP

Thank you SLAC professor.

That is an interesting point about the post truth era.. what does this mean in terms of higher education? Don’t students still have to back up theoretical claims with empirical or scientific evidence?

Also interesting that you have observed a drop over such a long time.

Agree that mental health care is necessary for learning.

Thanks for your reply.

Interesting the professor thinks the students have the ability to learn and perform and have great potential but since they haven’t had as many privileges they consider the students “less”.

OP -
He or she can speak for themself but I personally did not interpret his remarks in that way .

“This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.”

To me, she or he is saying that colleges are wrestling with DEI challenges - they want to be inclusive of a broader field of students but are aware that students from disadvantaged schools or homes face significant obstacles in college preparedness. That does not mean the challenges can’t be overcome but more work and attention is needed by colleges and professors to help them to adapt and succeed.

That is how I interpreted the comments anyway.

SLAC prof here again, yes, this is what I meant. And yes, as a professor I do invest more time with these students, as it is my job at a SLAC to work with students. I have no TA and my students benefit from one on one conversations. My students are human beings to me, not just a group of numbers or labels.

Yet you categorize some not even knowing their background as "the cliff kids" or "DEI efforts". You could easily categorize them as "less coddled" and it would be apt and accurate yet you don't, you categorize them as less and the "coddled and tutored" as more.

There are no SLACs without tutors and writing centers.

it's okay, I get it, you have been a professor for 20 years, professors are luddites by nature and the world is passing you by in many ways and it's hard to keep up. But, have you ever just stopped to think, hey maybe I'm hitting the cliff, maybe I'm not the one keeping up.

Zoom, texting, bulletin boards, online lectures... every job has new things to learn every year, maybe it's just too much for you.

DP: Wow, your stereotypes are telling.

Perhaps or maybe the “professor” could do some self reflection and ask for mentoring from a younger colleague to get back up to speed.

It happens in every profession. There is no shame in falling behind the curve sometimes. We can’t always be at the top of our game for 20+ straight years.

Often it’s helpful to step back take time to identify your strengths and weaknesses and do better.

The world is moving quickly.

NP. You are just awful.

DP. Agreed. That PP sounds so arrogant and ignorant. Sometimes the anti-educational trolling on this board feels political even when it isn't overt. I wish we had logins for this board to see how much of this comes from the same source(s). It would at least temper the antagonism.

It's bizarre that you can't even understand that professors are human doing jobs and they are very, very, very imperfect.

I'm not antagonistic about it but you sure seem triggered. I am simply stating facts, perhaps not couching it with flowery language to protect fragile egos, but the reality is that teaching is a whole new world. Older teachers are being outpaced by technology and new ways to communicate.

I remember when professors had typists and were appalled that they would have to type their own research with a word processor, some never did.

Now there is Canvas and email and texting and zoom and recordings... I feel for professors but in what other profession can you just not be good at your job and then everybody blames their clients.

It is bizarre that you can’t understand how unnecessarily antagonistic, over bearing and generally unhelpful your inputs were.

They offered nothing regarding insights into whether college preparedness has changed and attacked a LAS professor for simply telling their experience.

It actually does, but your too triggered to read this input and think critically about it. Perhaps you're a new student who has not been taught reading comprehension and critical thinking.

It was a consensus opinion that your critique was mean and unhelpful .

Nope try again.

Don’t need to try - many PPs did not respond well to your flaming … no one defended your mean spirited commentary apart from you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SLAC prof here. Haven't read all the responses, too tired from being overworked. I have seen a drop, not necessarily a big drop, but a significant one, over the past 20+ years of teaching at different institutions. Some of it began before the pandemic, especially mental health, but the pandemic exacerbated it in terms of students not being accountable for turning in work on time, etc. I've also seen a change in critical thinking that I think has at least two root causes - being taught to take a test in high school (even or especially even APs), but also the post-truth era. Lastly, I might only speak for my current institution here, but we've made intentional DEI efforts and our recruiting has changed. This is partially because of the social justice aspect of making a SLAC education more accessible to different kinds of students, but it also has to do with the demographic cliff. This has led to recruiting students from high schools and family environments that have not enabled adequate preparation for college. This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.

Universities need to and are shifting to the wraparound services that they provide - ranging from more mental health supports, to increased accommodations and social and financial supports. This is necessary for students to succeed. But it is also taxing for an institution and the realities of grade inflation and students slipping through the cracks can and does occur.

OP

Thank you SLAC professor.

That is an interesting point about the post truth era.. what does this mean in terms of higher education? Don’t students still have to back up theoretical claims with empirical or scientific evidence?

Also interesting that you have observed a drop over such a long time.

Agree that mental health care is necessary for learning.

Thanks for your reply.

Interesting the professor thinks the students have the ability to learn and perform and have great potential but since they haven’t had as many privileges they consider the students “less”.

OP -
He or she can speak for themself but I personally did not interpret his remarks in that way .

“This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.”

To me, she or he is saying that colleges are wrestling with DEI challenges - they want to be inclusive of a broader field of students but are aware that students from disadvantaged schools or homes face significant obstacles in college preparedness. That does not mean the challenges can’t be overcome but more work and attention is needed by colleges and professors to help them to adapt and succeed.

That is how I interpreted the comments anyway.

SLAC prof here again, yes, this is what I meant. And yes, as a professor I do invest more time with these students, as it is my job at a SLAC to work with students. I have no TA and my students benefit from one on one conversations. My students are human beings to me, not just a group of numbers or labels.

Yet you categorize some not even knowing their background as "the cliff kids" or "DEI efforts". You could easily categorize them as "less coddled" and it would be apt and accurate yet you don't, you categorize them as less and the "coddled and tutored" as more.

There are no SLACs without tutors and writing centers.

it's okay, I get it, you have been a professor for 20 years, professors are luddites by nature and the world is passing you by in many ways and it's hard to keep up. But, have you ever just stopped to think, hey maybe I'm hitting the cliff, maybe I'm not the one keeping up.

Zoom, texting, bulletin boards, online lectures... every job has new things to learn every year, maybe it's just too much for you.

DP: Wow, your stereotypes are telling.

Perhaps or maybe the “professor” could do some self reflection and ask for mentoring from a younger colleague to get back up to speed.

It happens in every profession. There is no shame in falling behind the curve sometimes. We can’t always be at the top of our game for 20+ straight years.

Often it’s helpful to step back take time to identify your strengths and weaknesses and do better.

The world is moving quickly.

NP. You are just awful.

DP. Agreed. That PP sounds so arrogant and ignorant. Sometimes the anti-educational trolling on this board feels political even when it isn't overt. I wish we had logins for this board to see how much of this comes from the same source(s). It would at least temper the antagonism.

It's bizarre that you can't even understand that professors are human doing jobs and they are very, very, very imperfect.

I'm not antagonistic about it but you sure seem triggered. I am simply stating facts, perhaps not couching it with flowery language to protect fragile egos, but the reality is that teaching is a whole new world. Older teachers are being outpaced by technology and new ways to communicate.

I remember when professors had typists and were appalled that they would have to type their own research with a word processor, some never did.

Now there is Canvas and email and texting and zoom and recordings... I feel for professors but in what other profession can you just not be good at your job and then everybody blames their clients.

It is bizarre that you can’t understand how unnecessarily antagonistic, over bearing and generally unhelpful your inputs were.

They offered nothing regarding insights into whether college preparedness has changed and attacked a LAS professor for simply telling their experience.

It actually does, but your too triggered to read this input and think critically about it. Perhaps you're a new student who has not been taught reading comprehension and critical thinking.

It was a consensus opinion that your critique was mean and unhelpful .

Nope try again.

Don’t need to try - many PPs did not respond well to your flaming … no one defended your mean spirited commentary apart from you.

Really you don't say, the professors didn't say... wow your right both students and professors need to give each other more grace... students might not write the best emails and papers are not as good as pre-covid but their power point presentations, ability to program, use of technology and oral presentation are through the roof.

You don't say, people on DCUM, not admitting they are myopic and short sighted.

Hey I have to go a professor I work with is asking me why his phone looks different since the last upgrade... Yea i know it looks like FaceTime but it's just an upgrade, don't worry it's not broken, it's your phone, no it's not Facetime.. someone is calling you, calling, answer it , here the button is not in the same place... sorry gotta go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SLAC prof here. Haven't read all the responses, too tired from being overworked. I have seen a drop, not necessarily a big drop, but a significant one, over the past 20+ years of teaching at different institutions. Some of it began before the pandemic, especially mental health, but the pandemic exacerbated it in terms of students not being accountable for turning in work on time, etc. I've also seen a change in critical thinking that I think has at least two root causes - being taught to take a test in high school (even or especially even APs), but also the post-truth era. Lastly, I might only speak for my current institution here, but we've made intentional DEI efforts and our recruiting has changed. This is partially because of the social justice aspect of making a SLAC education more accessible to different kinds of students, but it also has to do with the demographic cliff. This has led to recruiting students from high schools and family environments that have not enabled adequate preparation for college. This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.

Universities need to and are shifting to the wraparound services that they provide - ranging from more mental health supports, to increased accommodations and social and financial supports. This is necessary for students to succeed. But it is also taxing for an institution and the realities of grade inflation and students slipping through the cracks can and does occur.

OP

Thank you SLAC professor.

That is an interesting point about the post truth era.. what does this mean in terms of higher education? Don’t students still have to back up theoretical claims with empirical or scientific evidence?

Also interesting that you have observed a drop over such a long time.

Agree that mental health care is necessary for learning.

Thanks for your reply.

Interesting the professor thinks the students have the ability to learn and perform and have great potential but since they haven’t had as many privileges they consider the students “less”.

OP -
He or she can speak for themself but I personally did not interpret his remarks in that way .

“This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.”

To me, she or he is saying that colleges are wrestling with DEI challenges - they want to be inclusive of a broader field of students but are aware that students from disadvantaged schools or homes face significant obstacles in college preparedness. That does not mean the challenges can’t be overcome but more work and attention is needed by colleges and professors to help them to adapt and succeed.

That is how I interpreted the comments anyway.

SLAC prof here again, yes, this is what I meant. And yes, as a professor I do invest more time with these students, as it is my job at a SLAC to work with students. I have no TA and my students benefit from one on one conversations. My students are human beings to me, not just a group of numbers or labels.

Yet you categorize some not even knowing their background as "the cliff kids" or "DEI efforts". You could easily categorize them as "less coddled" and it would be apt and accurate yet you don't, you categorize them as less and the "coddled and tutored" as more.

There are no SLACs without tutors and writing centers.

it's okay, I get it, you have been a professor for 20 years, professors are luddites by nature and the world is passing you by in many ways and it's hard to keep up. But, have you ever just stopped to think, hey maybe I'm hitting the cliff, maybe I'm not the one keeping up.

Zoom, texting, bulletin boards, online lectures... every job has new things to learn every year, maybe it's just too much for you.

DP: Wow, your stereotypes are telling.

Perhaps or maybe the “professor” could do some self reflection and ask for mentoring from a younger colleague to get back up to speed.

It happens in every profession. There is no shame in falling behind the curve sometimes. We can’t always be at the top of our game for 20+ straight years.

Often it’s helpful to step back take time to identify your strengths and weaknesses and do better.

The world is moving quickly.

NP. You are just awful.

DP. Agreed. That PP sounds so arrogant and ignorant. Sometimes the anti-educational trolling on this board feels political even when it isn't overt. I wish we had logins for this board to see how much of this comes from the same source(s). It would at least temper the antagonism.

It's bizarre that you can't even understand that professors are human doing jobs and they are very, very, very imperfect.

I'm not antagonistic about it but you sure seem triggered. I am simply stating facts, perhaps not couching it with flowery language to protect fragile egos, but the reality is that teaching is a whole new world. Older teachers are being outpaced by technology and new ways to communicate.

I remember when professors had typists and were appalled that they would have to type their own research with a word processor, some never did.

Now there is Canvas and email and texting and zoom and recordings... I feel for professors but in what other profession can you just not be good at your job and then everybody blames their clients.

It is bizarre that you can’t understand how unnecessarily antagonistic, over bearing and generally unhelpful your inputs were.

They offered nothing regarding insights into whether college preparedness has changed and attacked a LAS professor for simply telling their experience.

It actually does, but your too triggered to read this input and think critically about it. Perhaps you're a new student who has not been taught reading comprehension and critical thinking.

It was a consensus opinion that your critique was mean and unhelpful .

Nope try again.

Leave please. No one cares what you have to say.

Yea but they should and they should learn how to be better professors. You are paying a lot of money for them to not keep up with the world.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:SLAC prof here. Haven't read all the responses, too tired from being overworked. I have seen a drop, not necessarily a big drop, but a significant one, over the past 20+ years of teaching at different institutions. Some of it began before the pandemic, especially mental health, but the pandemic exacerbated it in terms of students not being accountable for turning in work on time, etc. I've also seen a change in critical thinking that I think has at least two root causes - being taught to take a test in high school (even or especially even APs), but also the post-truth era. Lastly, I might only speak for my current institution here, but we've made intentional DEI efforts and our recruiting has changed. This is partially because of the social justice aspect of making a SLAC education more accessible to different kinds of students, but it also has to do with the demographic cliff. This has led to recruiting students from high schools and family environments that have not enabled adequate preparation for college. This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.

Universities need to and are shifting to the wraparound services that they provide - ranging from more mental health supports, to increased accommodations and social and financial supports. This is necessary for students to succeed. But it is also taxing for an institution and the realities of grade inflation and students slipping through the cracks can and does occur.

OP

Thank you SLAC professor.

That is an interesting point about the post truth era.. what does this mean in terms of higher education? Don’t students still have to back up theoretical claims with empirical or scientific evidence?

Also interesting that you have observed a drop over such a long time.

Agree that mental health care is necessary for learning.

Thanks for your reply.

Interesting the professor thinks the students have the ability to learn and perform and have great potential but since they haven’t had as many privileges they consider the students “less”.

OP -
He or she can speak for themself but I personally did not interpret his remarks in that way .

“This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.”

To me, she or he is saying that colleges are wrestling with DEI challenges - they want to be inclusive of a broader field of students but are aware that students from disadvantaged schools or homes face significant obstacles in college preparedness. That does not mean the challenges can’t be overcome but more work and attention is needed by colleges and professors to help them to adapt and succeed.

That is how I interpreted the comments anyway.

SLAC prof here again, yes, this is what I meant. And yes, as a professor I do invest more time with these students, as it is my job at a SLAC to work with students. I have no TA and my students benefit from one on one conversations. My students are human beings to me, not just a group of numbers or labels.

Yet you categorize some not even knowing their background as "the cliff kids" or "DEI efforts". You could easily categorize them as "less coddled" and it would be apt and accurate yet you don't, you categorize them as less and the "coddled and tutored" as more.

There are no SLACs without tutors and writing centers.

it's okay, I get it, you have been a professor for 20 years, professors are luddites by nature and the world is passing you by in many ways and it's hard to keep up. But, have you ever just stopped to think, hey maybe I'm hitting the cliff, maybe I'm not the one keeping up.

Zoom, texting, bulletin boards, online lectures... every job has new things to learn every year, maybe it's just too much for you.

DP: Wow, your stereotypes are telling.

Perhaps or maybe the “professor” could do some self reflection and ask for mentoring from a younger colleague to get back up to speed.

It happens in every profession. There is no shame in falling behind the curve sometimes. We can’t always be at the top of our game for 20+ straight years.

Often it’s helpful to step back take time to identify your strengths and weaknesses and do better.

The world is moving quickly.

NP. You are just awful.

DP. Agreed. That PP sounds so arrogant and ignorant. Sometimes the anti-educational trolling on this board feels political even when it isn't overt. I wish we had logins for this board to see how much of this comes from the same source(s). It would at least temper the antagonism.

It's bizarre that you can't even understand that professors are human doing jobs and they are very, very, very imperfect.

I'm not antagonistic about it but you sure seem triggered. I am simply stating facts, perhaps not couching it with flowery language to protect fragile egos, but the reality is that teaching is a whole new world. Older teachers are being outpaced by technology and new ways to communicate.

I remember when professors had typists and were appalled that they would have to type their own research with a word processor, some never did.

Now there is Canvas and email and texting and zoom and recordings... I feel for professors but in what other profession can you just not be good at your job and then everybody blames their clients.

It is bizarre that you can’t understand how unnecessarily antagonistic, over bearing and generally unhelpful your inputs were.

They offered nothing regarding insights into whether college preparedness has changed and attacked a LAS professor for simply telling their experience.

It actually does, but your too triggered to read this input and think critically about it. Perhaps you're a new student who has not been taught reading comprehension and critical thinking.

It was a consensus opinion that your critique was mean and unhelpful .

Nope try again.

Leave please. No one cares what you have to say.

Yea but they should and they should learn how to be better professors. You are paying a lot of money for them to not keep up with the world.

On what basis are you claiming they are not "keeping up with the world"? Professors do most of the basic science that allows the new inventions, they keep up to date in their areas of expertise, and they adapt to every new crop of students that come in. They also have to manage an awful lot of technology: learning management technologies, plagiarism detection technologies, all their statistical software/data analysis technologies, assessment data systems, grant budget systems, institutional review boards, registration and grading systems etc. all while following federal regulations for their grants and FERPA regulations for their students. I think you have an outdated, stereotyped view of the professor's life.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm just an adjunct, teaching at a state U, so take this FWIW. I agree with A LOT of what the SLAC professor wrote upthread. Our populations have similar challenges. I hear similar reflections from colleagues.

I think everyone has pretty well covered that these young adults have expectations that they will be coddled. They don't know how to take notes, either from reading material or lectures, expect that they will get study guides, that reading through that at the last minute is sufficient to do well in class (it's necessary, but not sufficient), that the assigned reading is somehow optional, ....

I make myself quite available to help out my students, but am never taken up on this, until the end of semesters, when all of a sudden, half the class wants to know how they can bring their grades up, could I give them extra credit, can I read drafts of their work before submission, etc. Then there are the thousand questions about how the grading actually works, what the class rules are, what's covered in class (!!!). Things that are explained on the first day of class, and talked about periodically.

Additionally, a lot of students have absolutely no idea how to interact with their teachers. One does not address their instructors as one would their peers (there might be exceptions for grad students). There is an expectation that emails use correctly spelled words, in proper context, with decent grammar, and punctuation. It's not the same as texting one's friends. Emails have to be signed with their name. One does not call in mommy and daddy if things go sideways. I could go on. If the parents just taught their kids some basic life skills, and instilled decent study habits, life would be so much easier.

OP / thanks you Adjunct Prof! I don’t think you should say “just” since adjuncts do so much of the teaching at many universities and you probably have a very good idea of what is going on.

We will probably encourage DC to get writing skills coaching prior to college. I agree that texting style communication is not appropriate for communicating with professors and TAs.

I will add “talk to professors and TAs early on in semesters” as advice for DC.

We are working on the life skills and study habits. I don’t plan on contacting professors or TAs (and never did for older DC).

It is very helpful to hear from college professors such as yourself about how our children can get more out of their college years.

Thank you

In an interesting coincidence, communications with professors came up among colleagues today. Because one received an email starting with 'Hey!'. Others piped in with their experiences - 'Hey First Name!', 'Yo!', 'Yo First Name', and so on. What was sad is that one said that when students would write like this, she would write a gentle response to essentially say that it's her job as an educator to make sure that her kids learned how to write in a professional manner, and then offer her corrections, but has stopped doing so due to antagonistic responses from previous students. I'm happy to say that I have never had students respond negatively to corrections of that sort, although a not insignificant percentage would ignore it.

When you send emails to coworkers you use formal language?

Depends on the coworker, how they’re addressed. Regardless of my relationship with them, the way I write to them professionally, is absolutely more formal than when I say, text them.

Professors are not a peer group for students.

Professors should explain how emails work in real life and not every email is a formal address. It's a waste of time.

I just checked my emails from professors and 1/10 of them start with "Hey" or "Can you call me" or "Hello". Which are all fine for this type of communication. Email is transitory, quick form of communication. It's not a letter, they are having a conversation.

If they are asking for something formal like a letter of recommendation sure it should be formal, but if it simply is asking a question about an assignment it's not formal.

Emails have become more like snail mail of yore, so yes, there needs to be some amount of formality surrounding it. You cannot suddenly go from writing to your teachers as if they're your peers, to writing formally when you need something from them. People form impressions of you from how you communicate with them. As a student, if you are hoping to make a good impression (and possibly get a letter of recommendation at some point), it is important to at least make an attempt to sound serious and professional in your communications. I also don't believe that students can address professors in a way that professors can address them (although I would NEVER start an email to a student with 'Hey'); Hello is acceptable, as are 'Prof. X,', 'Dr. X', and so on. This is what I tell my child as well.

[Anonymous]

OP

Thank you to the many professors who responded with constructive feedback. I have already started discussions with our HS student (sophomore) about what areas some professors are seeing as hindering students’ college work (being late, handing in assignments late, overly casual communications with professors and TAs, weak writing, and not seeking help early in school semesters).

Even though many of us nag our children about these basic requirements of good manners anyway, it has more credibility when we can tell our DC that professors say punctuality and time management are important to college success.

Thank you to the students or whoever it was pointing out that there is a lot of modern technology to help with note taking and study. We will look into college technology aids.

Professors and TAs - Thank you very much for sharing your experiences. I apologize for any unkind and unhelpful comments made. Please know that I and many others highly value your work with our adult children.

A special thanks to the professors who go out of their ways to treat their students as whole people with feelings, gifts and challenges that go beyond stats, grades, and rankings.

Wishing you all the very best.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:SLAC prof here. Haven't read all the responses, too tired from being overworked. I have seen a drop, not necessarily a big drop, but a significant one, over the past 20+ years of teaching at different institutions. Some of it began before the pandemic, especially mental health, but the pandemic exacerbated it in terms of students not being accountable for turning in work on time, etc. I've also seen a change in critical thinking that I think has at least two root causes - being taught to take a test in high school (even or especially even APs), but also the post-truth era. Lastly, I might only speak for my current institution here, but we've made intentional DEI efforts and our recruiting has changed. This is partially because of the social justice aspect of making a SLAC education more accessible to different kinds of students, but it also has to do with the demographic cliff. This has led to recruiting students from high schools and family environments that have not enabled adequate preparation for college. This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.

Universities need to and are shifting to the wraparound services that they provide - ranging from more mental health supports, to increased accommodations and social and financial supports. This is necessary for students to succeed. But it is also taxing for an institution and the realities of grade inflation and students slipping through the cracks can and does occur.

OP

Thank you SLAC professor.

That is an interesting point about the post truth era.. what does this mean in terms of higher education? Don’t students still have to back up theoretical claims with empirical or scientific evidence?

Also interesting that you have observed a drop over such a long time.

Agree that mental health care is necessary for learning.

Thanks for your reply.

Interesting the professor thinks the students have the ability to learn and perform and have great potential but since they haven’t had as many privileges they consider the students “less”.

OP -
He or she can speak for themself but I personally did not interpret his remarks in that way .

“This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.”

To me, she or he is saying that colleges are wrestling with DEI challenges - they want to be inclusive of a broader field of students but are aware that students from disadvantaged schools or homes face significant obstacles in college preparedness. That does not mean the challenges can’t be overcome but more work and attention is needed by colleges and professors to help them to adapt and succeed.

That is how I interpreted the comments anyway.

SLAC prof here again, yes, this is what I meant. And yes, as a professor I do invest more time with these students, as it is my job at a SLAC to work with students. I have no TA and my students benefit from one on one conversations. My students are human beings to me, not just a group of numbers or labels.

Yet you categorize some not even knowing their background as "the cliff kids" or "DEI efforts". You could easily categorize them as "less coddled" and it would be apt and accurate yet you don't, you categorize them as less and the "coddled and tutored" as more.

There are no SLACs without tutors and writing centers.

it's okay, I get it, you have been a professor for 20 years, professors are luddites by nature and the world is passing you by in many ways and it's hard to keep up. But, have you ever just stopped to think, hey maybe I'm hitting the cliff, maybe I'm not the one keeping up.

Zoom, texting, bulletin boards, online lectures... every job has new things to learn every year, maybe it's just too much for you.

DP: Wow, your stereotypes are telling.

Perhaps or maybe the “professor” could do some self reflection and ask for mentoring from a younger colleague to get back up to speed.

It happens in every profession. There is no shame in falling behind the curve sometimes. We can’t always be at the top of our game for 20+ straight years.

Often it’s helpful to step back take time to identify your strengths and weaknesses and do better.

The world is moving quickly.

NP. You are just awful.

DP. Agreed. That PP sounds so arrogant and ignorant. Sometimes the anti-educational trolling on this board feels political even when it isn't overt. I wish we had logins for this board to see how much of this comes from the same source(s). It would at least temper the antagonism.

It's bizarre that you can't even understand that professors are human doing jobs and they are very, very, very imperfect.

I'm not antagonistic about it but you sure seem triggered. I am simply stating facts, perhaps not couching it with flowery language to protect fragile egos, but the reality is that teaching is a whole new world. Older teachers are being outpaced by technology and new ways to communicate.

I remember when professors had typists and were appalled that they would have to type their own research with a word processor, some never did.

Now there is Canvas and email and texting and zoom and recordings... I feel for professors but in what other profession can you just not be good at your job and then everybody blames their clients.

It is bizarre that you can’t understand how unnecessarily antagonistic, over bearing and generally unhelpful your inputs were.

They offered nothing regarding insights into whether college preparedness has changed and attacked a LAS professor for simply telling their experience.

It actually does, but your too triggered to read this input and think critically about it. Perhaps you're a new student who has not been taught reading comprehension and critical thinking.

It was a consensus opinion that your critique was mean and unhelpful .

Nope try again.

Leave please. No one cares what you have to say.

Yea but they should and they should learn how to be better professors. You are paying a lot of money for them to not keep up with the world.

On what basis are you claiming they are not "keeping up with the world"? Professors do most of the basic science that allows the new inventions, they keep up to date in their areas of expertise, and they adapt to every new crop of students that come in. They also have to manage an awful lot of technology: learning management technologies, plagiarism detection technologies, all their statistical software/data analysis technologies, assessment data systems, grant budget systems, institutional review boards, registration and grading systems etc. all while following federal regulations for their grants and FERPA regulations for their students. I think you have an outdated, stereotyped view of the professor's life.

No they don't keep up with all those technologies. It's like pulling teeth to get some to change and learn all the tools availed to them. FERPA, lol you dont' think professors talk to each other about other students, sure they don't talk to parents, so that's a plus, sometimes... except when they missed 5 classes and no professors notify anybody and the kid is suicidal.

Grants, now that's something they care about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question is for the college professors among us: Are professors at all universities seeing a big drop in college preparedness among undergraduates ? I have heard that that is the case at some very strong universities. I presume this is related to the Pandemic.

If so, what areas are undergrad college professors seeing the biggest skill set weaknesses in? Is it technical academic skills or social skills or both?

What if anything, do you think high school students should be doing to be better prepared for college ?

Thanks in advance

We need to stop blaming COVID for everything... Parents will complain about their kids having "homework", they will get mad if they have to study for a test or complete a project. Also they think they can have unlimited retakes and won't turn anything in...

So you would prefer to pretend that COVID never happened and had no impact on students whatsoever?

Let's face it, it had effect mostly on lazy students. Conscientious students did fine or better.

This is true. As a HS teacher, the students who want to succeed, do. Those who DGAF, don't succeed. They turn in work in big piles at the last moment - usually the last day of the grading period - and survive off retakes.

[Anonymous]

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