Are professors at all universities seeing big drop in college preparedness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is academia itself that creates the “post-truth era” but apparently at least some academics don’t like the consequences of that. Oopsie!

Sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SLAC prof here. Haven't read all the responses, too tired from being overworked. I have seen a drop, not necessarily a big drop, but a significant one, over the past 20+ years of teaching at different institutions. Some of it began before the pandemic, especially mental health, but the pandemic exacerbated it in terms of students not being accountable for turning in work on time, etc. I've also seen a change in critical thinking that I think has at least two root causes - being taught to take a test in high school (even or especially even APs), but also the post-truth era. Lastly, I might only speak for my current institution here, but we've made intentional DEI efforts and our recruiting has changed. This is partially because of the social justice aspect of making a SLAC education more accessible to different kinds of students, but it also has to do with the demographic cliff. This has led to recruiting students from high schools and family environments that have not enabled adequate preparation for college. This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.

Universities need to and are shifting to the wraparound services that they provide - ranging from more mental health supports, to increased accommodations and social and financial supports. This is necessary for students to succeed. But it is also taxing for an institution and the realities of grade inflation and students slipping through the cracks can and does occur.

OP

Thank you SLAC professor.

That is an interesting point about the post truth era.. what does this mean in terms of higher education? Don’t students still have to back up theoretical claims with empirical or scientific evidence?

Also interesting that you have observed a drop over such a long time.

Agree that mental health care is necessary for learning.

Thanks for your reply.

Interesting the professor thinks the students have the ability to learn and perform and have great potential but since they haven’t had as many privileges they consider the students “less”.

OP -
He or she can speak for themself but I personally did not interpret his remarks in that way .

“This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.”

To me, she or he is saying that colleges are wrestling with DEI challenges - they want to be inclusive of a broader field of students but are aware that students from disadvantaged schools or homes face significant obstacles in college preparedness. That does not mean the challenges can’t be overcome but more work and attention is needed by colleges and professors to help them to adapt and succeed.

That is how I interpreted the comments anyway.

SLAC prof here again, yes, this is what I meant. And yes, as a professor I do invest more time with these students, as it is my job at a SLAC to work with students. I have no TA and my students benefit from one on one conversations. My students are human beings to me, not just a group of numbers or labels.

Yet you categorize some not even knowing their background as "the cliff kids" or "DEI efforts". You could easily categorize them as "less coddled" and it would be apt and accurate yet you don't, you categorize them as less and the "coddled and tutored" as more.

There are no SLACs without tutors and writing centers.

it's okay, I get it, you have been a professor for 20 years, professors are luddites by nature and the world is passing you by in many ways and it's hard to keep up. But, have you ever just stopped to think, hey maybe I'm hitting the cliff, maybe I'm not the one keeping up.

Zoom, texting, bulletin boards, online lectures... every job has new things to learn every year, maybe it's just too much for you.

DP: Wow, your stereotypes are telling.

Perhaps or maybe the “professor” could do some self reflection and ask for mentoring from a younger colleague to get back up to speed.

It happens in every profession. There is no shame in falling behind the curve sometimes. We can’t always be at the top of our game for 20+ straight years.

Often it’s helpful to step back take time to identify your strengths and weaknesses and do better.

The world is moving quickly.

NP. You are just awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SLAC prof here. Haven't read all the responses, too tired from being overworked. I have seen a drop, not necessarily a big drop, but a significant one, over the past 20+ years of teaching at different institutions. Some of it began before the pandemic, especially mental health, but the pandemic exacerbated it in terms of students not being accountable for turning in work on time, etc. I've also seen a change in critical thinking that I think has at least two root causes - being taught to take a test in high school (even or especially even APs), but also the post-truth era. Lastly, I might only speak for my current institution here, but we've made intentional DEI efforts and our recruiting has changed. This is partially because of the social justice aspect of making a SLAC education more accessible to different kinds of students, but it also has to do with the demographic cliff. This has led to recruiting students from high schools and family environments that have not enabled adequate preparation for college. This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.

Universities need to and are shifting to the wraparound services that they provide - ranging from more mental health supports, to increased accommodations and social and financial supports. This is necessary for students to succeed. But it is also taxing for an institution and the realities of grade inflation and students slipping through the cracks can and does occur.

OP

Thank you SLAC professor.

That is an interesting point about the post truth era.. what does this mean in terms of higher education? Don’t students still have to back up theoretical claims with empirical or scientific evidence?

Also interesting that you have observed a drop over such a long time.

Agree that mental health care is necessary for learning.

Thanks for your reply.

Interesting the professor thinks the students have the ability to learn and perform and have great potential but since they haven’t had as many privileges they consider the students “less”.

OP -
He or she can speak for themself but I personally did not interpret his remarks in that way .

“This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.”

To me, she or he is saying that colleges are wrestling with DEI challenges - they want to be inclusive of a broader field of students but are aware that students from disadvantaged schools or homes face significant obstacles in college preparedness. That does not mean the challenges can’t be overcome but more work and attention is needed by colleges and professors to help them to adapt and succeed.

That is how I interpreted the comments anyway.

SLAC prof here again, yes, this is what I meant. And yes, as a professor I do invest more time with these students, as it is my job at a SLAC to work with students. I have no TA and my students benefit from one on one conversations. My students are human beings to me, not just a group of numbers or labels.

Yet you categorize some not even knowing their background as "the cliff kids" or "DEI efforts". You could easily categorize them as "less coddled" and it would be apt and accurate yet you don't, you categorize them as less and the "coddled and tutored" as more.

There are no SLACs without tutors and writing centers.

it's okay, I get it, you have been a professor for 20 years, professors are luddites by nature and the world is passing you by in many ways and it's hard to keep up. But, have you ever just stopped to think, hey maybe I'm hitting the cliff, maybe I'm not the one keeping up.

Zoom, texting, bulletin boards, online lectures... every job has new things to learn every year, maybe it's just too much for you.

DP: Wow, your stereotypes are telling.

Perhaps or maybe the “professor” could do some self reflection and ask for mentoring from a younger colleague to get back up to speed.

It happens in every profession. There is no shame in falling behind the curve sometimes. We can’t always be at the top of our game for 20+ straight years.

Often it’s helpful to step back take time to identify your strengths and weaknesses and do better.

The world is moving quickly.

NP. You are just awful.

DP. Agreed. That PP sounds so arrogant and ignorant. Sometimes the anti-educational trolling on this board feels political even when it isn't overt. I wish we had logins for this board to see how much of this comes from the same source(s). It would at least temper the antagonism.

[Anonymous]

I'm just an adjunct, teaching at a state U, so take this FWIW. I agree with A LOT of what the SLAC professor wrote upthread. Our populations have similar challenges. I hear similar reflections from colleagues.

I think everyone has pretty well covered that these young adults have expectations that they will be coddled. They don't know how to take notes, either from reading material or lectures, expect that they will get study guides, that reading through that at the last minute is sufficient to do well in class (it's necessary, but not sufficient), that the assigned reading is somehow optional, ....

I make myself quite available to help out my students, but am never taken up on this, until the end of semesters, when all of a sudden, half the class wants to know how they can bring their grades up, could I give them extra credit, can I read drafts of their work before submission, etc. Then there are the thousand questions about how the grading actually works, what the class rules are, what's covered in class (!!!). Things that are explained on the first day of class, and talked about periodically.

Additionally, a lot of students have absolutely no idea how to interact with their teachers. One does not address their instructors as one would their peers (there might be exceptions for grad students). There is an expectation that emails use correctly spelled words, in proper context, with decent grammar, and punctuation. It's not the same as texting one's friends. Emails have to be signed with their name. One does not call in mommy and daddy if things go sideways. I could go on. If the parents just taught their kids some basic life skills, and instilled decent study habits, life would be so much easier.

[Anonymous]

Their reading comprehension skills aren't as robust as incoming freshmen five years ago. It's like young people today don't really read, they simply skim. They skim to get the gist and to know the ending. That's it.

Their biggest flaw is their inability to meet deadlines. MS and HS teachers not giving students hard deadlines are doing a big disservice to today's students. I have spoken to so many young people who have told me that my college course is the first time they have encountered a hard deadline.

TBH, the accessibility of information is making everyone a bit dumber. Young people don't have to learn how to study or retain information because it is so easily accessible in their hands via their phones. It is mind-blowing that HS teachers, especially those of Juniors and Seniors, allow retakes for tests if the student scores a C or below. And the retest isn't even a different test copy according to most of my students. That's unacceptable!

So, basically, no deadlines and unlimited retests for good grades are pretty detrimental for young people entering college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SLAC prof here. Haven't read all the responses, too tired from being overworked. I have seen a drop, not necessarily a big drop, but a significant one, over the past 20+ years of teaching at different institutions. Some of it began before the pandemic, especially mental health, but the pandemic exacerbated it in terms of students not being accountable for turning in work on time, etc. I've also seen a change in critical thinking that I think has at least two root causes - being taught to take a test in high school (even or especially even APs), but also the post-truth era. Lastly, I might only speak for my current institution here, but we've made intentional DEI efforts and our recruiting has changed. This is partially because of the social justice aspect of making a SLAC education more accessible to different kinds of students, but it also has to do with the demographic cliff. This has led to recruiting students from high schools and family environments that have not enabled adequate preparation for college. This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.

Universities need to and are shifting to the wraparound services that they provide - ranging from more mental health supports, to increased accommodations and social and financial supports. This is necessary for students to succeed. But it is also taxing for an institution and the realities of grade inflation and students slipping through the cracks can and does occur.

OP

Thank you SLAC professor.

That is an interesting point about the post truth era.. what does this mean in terms of higher education? Don’t students still have to back up theoretical claims with empirical or scientific evidence?

Also interesting that you have observed a drop over such a long time.

Agree that mental health care is necessary for learning.

Thanks for your reply.

Interesting the professor thinks the students have the ability to learn and perform and have great potential but since they haven’t had as many privileges they consider the students “less”.

OP -
He or she can speak for themself but I personally did not interpret his remarks in that way .

“This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.”

To me, she or he is saying that colleges are wrestling with DEI challenges - they want to be inclusive of a broader field of students but are aware that students from disadvantaged schools or homes face significant obstacles in college preparedness. That does not mean the challenges can’t be overcome but more work and attention is needed by colleges and professors to help them to adapt and succeed.

That is how I interpreted the comments anyway.

SLAC prof here again, yes, this is what I meant. And yes, as a professor I do invest more time with these students, as it is my job at a SLAC to work with students. I have no TA and my students benefit from one on one conversations. My students are human beings to me, not just a group of numbers or labels.

Yet you categorize some not even knowing their background as "the cliff kids" or "DEI efforts". You could easily categorize them as "less coddled" and it would be apt and accurate yet you don't, you categorize them as less and the "coddled and tutored" as more.

There are no SLACs without tutors and writing centers.

it's okay, I get it, you have been a professor for 20 years, professors are luddites by nature and the world is passing you by in many ways and it's hard to keep up. But, have you ever just stopped to think, hey maybe I'm hitting the cliff, maybe I'm not the one keeping up.

Zoom, texting, bulletin boards, online lectures... every job has new things to learn every year, maybe it's just too much for you.

DP: Wow, your stereotypes are telling.

Perhaps or maybe the “professor” could do some self reflection and ask for mentoring from a younger colleague to get back up to speed.

It happens in every profession. There is no shame in falling behind the curve sometimes. We can’t always be at the top of our game for 20+ straight years.

Often it’s helpful to step back take time to identify your strengths and weaknesses and do better.

The world is moving quickly.

NP. You are just awful.

DP. Agreed. That PP sounds so arrogant and ignorant. Sometimes the anti-educational trolling on this board feels political even when it isn't overt. I wish we had logins for this board to see how much of this comes from the same source(s). It would at least temper the antagonism.

It's bizarre that you can't even understand that professors are human doing jobs and they are very, very, very imperfect.

I'm not antagonistic about it but you sure seem triggered. I am simply stating facts, perhaps not couching it with flowery language to protect fragile egos, but the reality is that teaching is a whole new world. Older teachers are being outpaced by technology and new ways to communicate.

I remember when professors had typists and were appalled that they would have to type their own research with a word processor, some never did.

Now there is Canvas and email and texting and zoom and recordings... I feel for professors but in what other profession can you just not be good at your job and then everybody blames their clients.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Their reading comprehension skills aren't as robust as incoming freshmen five years ago. It's like young people today don't really read, they simply skim. They skim to get the gist and to know the ending. That's it.

Their biggest flaw is their inability to meet deadlines. MS and HS teachers not giving students hard deadlines are doing a big disservice to today's students. I have spoken to so many young people who have told me that my college course is the first time they have encountered a hard deadline.

TBH, the accessibility of information is making everyone a bit dumber. Young people don't have to learn how to study or retain information because it is so easily accessible in their hands via their phones. It is mind-blowing that HS teachers, especially those of Juniors and Seniors, allow retakes for tests if the student scores a C or below. And the retest isn't even a different test copy according to most of my students. That's unacceptable!

So, basically, no deadlines and unlimited retests for good grades are pretty detrimental for young people entering college.

Don’t blame public HS teachers. We are not allowed to give hard deadlines.
We have plenty of hard deadlines that we have to meet but we get in trouble if we try to impose the same on students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm just an adjunct, teaching at a state U, so take this FWIW. I agree with A LOT of what the SLAC professor wrote upthread. Our populations have similar challenges. I hear similar reflections from colleagues.

I think everyone has pretty well covered that these young adults have expectations that they will be coddled. They don't know how to take notes, either from reading material or lectures, expect that they will get study guides, that reading through that at the last minute is sufficient to do well in class (it's necessary, but not sufficient), that the assigned reading is somehow optional, ....

I make myself quite available to help out my students, but am never taken up on this, until the end of semesters, when all of a sudden, half the class wants to know how they can bring their grades up, could I give them extra credit, can I read drafts of their work before submission, etc. Then there are the thousand questions about how the grading actually works, what the class rules are, what's covered in class (!!!). Things that are explained on the first day of class, and talked about periodically.

Additionally, a lot of students have absolutely no idea how to interact with their teachers. One does not address their instructors as one would their peers (there might be exceptions for grad students). There is an expectation that emails use correctly spelled words, in proper context, with decent grammar, and punctuation. It's not the same as texting one's friends. Emails have to be signed with their name. One does not call in mommy and daddy if things go sideways. I could go on. If the parents just taught their kids some basic life skills, and instilled decent study habits, life would be so much easier.

Interesting.. this is what I have found. Now that some classes are on Zoom or Teams kids can transcript the class, copy and past the transcript then edit it to make notes for the class. That seems way more advanced than 5 years ago, but that's just me.

There was a complaint that the professor was not clear, of course the professor disagreed. But we went back to the transcript and the professor said...

the key components of X are 1) 2) and #5... Hmm where are 3 and 4. Sure a simple mistake, but when asked what 3 and 4 were he was mad and said "take better notes", but the kids had the transcript... 5 years ago the kids would not have had proof and so the professor was wrong.

Then the same professor said there are 2 key elements to X so he names X, Y and Z.. but that is 3 elements. Then later in the transcript he said there were 3 key elements and named A, B and C... 3 totally different element.

When students answer the 3 key elements as X, Y and Z... they were marked down... but oops! back to the transcript.

I get it, professors now are being held accountable and it's hard but is it really the students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:College is the new high school. Kids coming in are like middle school students from a decade or two ago. Poor reading and writing skills. Want to do corrections and have trouble with deadlines. Sure COVID made it worse but was getting progressively worse before COVID. I chalk it up to the advent of everyone getting a participation trophy.

h

I think this is the case stated for every generation!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SLAC prof here. Haven't read all the responses, too tired from being overworked. I have seen a drop, not necessarily a big drop, but a significant one, over the past 20+ years of teaching at different institutions. Some of it began before the pandemic, especially mental health, but the pandemic exacerbated it in terms of students not being accountable for turning in work on time, etc. I've also seen a change in critical thinking that I think has at least two root causes - being taught to take a test in high school (even or especially even APs), but also the post-truth era. Lastly, I might only speak for my current institution here, but we've made intentional DEI efforts and our recruiting has changed. This is partially because of the social justice aspect of making a SLAC education more accessible to different kinds of students, but it also has to do with the demographic cliff. This has led to recruiting students from high schools and family environments that have not enabled adequate preparation for college. This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.

Universities need to and are shifting to the wraparound services that they provide - ranging from more mental health supports, to increased accommodations and social and financial supports. This is necessary for students to succeed. But it is also taxing for an institution and the realities of grade inflation and students slipping through the cracks can and does occur.

OP

Thank you SLAC professor.

That is an interesting point about the post truth era.. what does this mean in terms of higher education? Don’t students still have to back up theoretical claims with empirical or scientific evidence?

Also interesting that you have observed a drop over such a long time.

Agree that mental health care is necessary for learning.

Thanks for your reply.

Interesting the professor thinks the students have the ability to learn and perform and have great potential but since they haven’t had as many privileges they consider the students “less”.

OP -
He or she can speak for themself but I personally did not interpret his remarks in that way .

“This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.”

To me, she or he is saying that colleges are wrestling with DEI challenges - they want to be inclusive of a broader field of students but are aware that students from disadvantaged schools or homes face significant obstacles in college preparedness. That does not mean the challenges can’t be overcome but more work and attention is needed by colleges and professors to help them to adapt and succeed.

That is how I interpreted the comments anyway.

SLAC prof here again, yes, this is what I meant. And yes, as a professor I do invest more time with these students, as it is my job at a SLAC to work with students. I have no TA and my students benefit from one on one conversations. My students are human beings to me, not just a group of numbers or labels.

Yet you categorize some not even knowing their background as "the cliff kids" or "DEI efforts". You could easily categorize them as "less coddled" and it would be apt and accurate yet you don't, you categorize them as less and the "coddled and tutored" as more.

There are no SLACs without tutors and writing centers.

it's okay, I get it, you have been a professor for 20 years, professors are luddites by nature and the world is passing you by in many ways and it's hard to keep up. But, have you ever just stopped to think, hey maybe I'm hitting the cliff, maybe I'm not the one keeping up.

Zoom, texting, bulletin boards, online lectures... every job has new things to learn every year, maybe it's just too much for you.

DP: Wow, your stereotypes are telling.

Perhaps or maybe the “professor” could do some self reflection and ask for mentoring from a younger colleague to get back up to speed.

It happens in every profession. There is no shame in falling behind the curve sometimes. We can’t always be at the top of our game for 20+ straight years.

Often it’s helpful to step back take time to identify your strengths and weaknesses and do better.

The world is moving quickly.

You’re a hateful creep who’s probably got a paid gig making DEI look bad for the Republican Party. Go to a Robert Kennedy campaign event and leave people who beli In DEI alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SLAC prof here. Haven't read all the responses, too tired from being overworked. I have seen a drop, not necessarily a big drop, but a significant one, over the past 20+ years of teaching at different institutions. Some of it began before the pandemic, especially mental health, but the pandemic exacerbated it in terms of students not being accountable for turning in work on time, etc. I've also seen a change in critical thinking that I think has at least two root causes - being taught to take a test in high school (even or especially even APs), but also the post-truth era. Lastly, I might only speak for my current institution here, but we've made intentional DEI efforts and our recruiting has changed. This is partially because of the social justice aspect of making a SLAC education more accessible to different kinds of students, but it also has to do with the demographic cliff. This has led to recruiting students from high schools and family environments that have not enabled adequate preparation for college. This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.

Universities need to and are shifting to the wraparound services that they provide - ranging from more mental health supports, to increased accommodations and social and financial supports. This is necessary for students to succeed. But it is also taxing for an institution and the realities of grade inflation and students slipping through the cracks can and does occur.

OP

Thank you SLAC professor.

That is an interesting point about the post truth era.. what does this mean in terms of higher education? Don’t students still have to back up theoretical claims with empirical or scientific evidence?

Also interesting that you have observed a drop over such a long time.

Agree that mental health care is necessary for learning.

Thanks for your reply.

Interesting the professor thinks the students have the ability to learn and perform and have great potential but since they haven’t had as many privileges they consider the students “less”.

OP -
He or she can speak for themself but I personally did not interpret his remarks in that way .

“This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.”

To me, she or he is saying that colleges are wrestling with DEI challenges - they want to be inclusive of a broader field of students but are aware that students from disadvantaged schools or homes face significant obstacles in college preparedness. That does not mean the challenges can’t be overcome but more work and attention is needed by colleges and professors to help them to adapt and succeed.

That is how I interpreted the comments anyway.

SLAC prof here again, yes, this is what I meant. And yes, as a professor I do invest more time with these students, as it is my job at a SLAC to work with students. I have no TA and my students benefit from one on one conversations. My students are human beings to me, not just a group of numbers or labels.

Yet you categorize some not even knowing their background as "the cliff kids" or "DEI efforts". You could easily categorize them as "less coddled" and it would be apt and accurate yet you don't, you categorize them as less and the "coddled and tutored" as more.

There are no SLACs without tutors and writing centers.

it's okay, I get it, you have been a professor for 20 years, professors are luddites by nature and the world is passing you by in many ways and it's hard to keep up. But, have you ever just stopped to think, hey maybe I'm hitting the cliff, maybe I'm not the one keeping up.

Zoom, texting, bulletin boards, online lectures... every job has new things to learn every year, maybe it's just too much for you.

DP: Wow, your stereotypes are telling.

Perhaps or maybe the “professor” could do some self reflection and ask for mentoring from a younger colleague to get back up to speed.

It happens in every profession. There is no shame in falling behind the curve sometimes. We can’t always be at the top of our game for 20+ straight years.

Often it’s helpful to step back take time to identify your strengths and weaknesses and do better.

The world is moving quickly.

NP. You are just awful.

DP. Agreed. That PP sounds so arrogant and ignorant. Sometimes the anti-educational trolling on this board feels political even when it isn't overt. I wish we had logins for this board to see how much of this comes from the same source(s). It would at least temper the antagonism.

It's bizarre that you can't even understand that professors are human doing jobs and they are very, very, very imperfect.

I'm not antagonistic about it but you sure seem triggered. I am simply stating facts, perhaps not couching it with flowery language to protect fragile egos, but the reality is that teaching is a whole new world. Older teachers are being outpaced by technology and new ways to communicate.

I remember when professors had typists and were appalled that they would have to type their own research with a word processor, some never did.

Now there is Canvas and email and texting and zoom and recordings... I feel for professors but in what other profession can you just not be good at your job and then everybody blames their clients.

It is bizarre that you can’t understand how unnecessarily antagonistic, over bearing and generally unhelpful your inputs were.

They offered nothing regarding insights into whether college preparedness has changed and attacked a LAS professor for simply telling their experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not antagonistic about it but you sure seem triggered. I am simply stating facts, perhaps not couching it with flowery language to protect fragile egos, but the reality is that teaching is a whole new world. Older teachers are being outpaced by technology and new ways to communicate.

I remember when professors had typists and were appalled that they would have to type their own research with a word processor, some never did.

Now there is Canvas and email and texting and zoom and recordings... I feel for professors but in what other profession can you just not be good at your job and then everybody blames their clients.

I’m a new poster who’s the parent of a college student who’s meeting deadlines and doing well.

Certainly, professors can be jerks, but you’re the only one being awful and mean in this thread.

You’re being awful because you are, in effect, calling the professors racist, then being incredibly insulting and ageist.

You’re also being awful by showing your high level of privilege and assuming as a given that SLACs all have effective, Columbia-level support services.

You’re like someone who scoffs at a student who forgets a lunch at home and asks, “Why don’t you just call the butler?”

Not every student comes from a house with a butler.

Not every SLAC has TAs or a writing center that can do much for a student with very weak writing skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SLAC prof here. Haven't read all the responses, too tired from being overworked. I have seen a drop, not necessarily a big drop, but a significant one, over the past 20+ years of teaching at different institutions. Some of it began before the pandemic, especially mental health, but the pandemic exacerbated it in terms of students not being accountable for turning in work on time, etc. I've also seen a change in critical thinking that I think has at least two root causes - being taught to take a test in high school (even or especially even APs), but also the post-truth era. Lastly, I might only speak for my current institution here, but we've made intentional DEI efforts and our recruiting has changed. This is partially because of the social justice aspect of making a SLAC education more accessible to different kinds of students, but it also has to do with the demographic cliff. This has led to recruiting students from high schools and family environments that have not enabled adequate preparation for college. This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.

Universities need to and are shifting to the wraparound services that they provide - ranging from more mental health supports, to increased accommodations and social and financial supports. This is necessary for students to succeed. But it is also taxing for an institution and the realities of grade inflation and students slipping through the cracks can and does occur.

OP

Thank you SLAC professor.

That is an interesting point about the post truth era.. what does this mean in terms of higher education? Don’t students still have to back up theoretical claims with empirical or scientific evidence?

Also interesting that you have observed a drop over such a long time.

Agree that mental health care is necessary for learning.

Thanks for your reply.

Interesting the professor thinks the students have the ability to learn and perform and have great potential but since they haven’t had as many privileges they consider the students “less”.

OP -
He or she can speak for themself but I personally did not interpret his remarks in that way .

“This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.”

To me, she or he is saying that colleges are wrestling with DEI challenges - they want to be inclusive of a broader field of students but are aware that students from disadvantaged schools or homes face significant obstacles in college preparedness. That does not mean the challenges can’t be overcome but more work and attention is needed by colleges and professors to help them to adapt and succeed.

That is how I interpreted the comments anyway.

SLAC prof here again, yes, this is what I meant. And yes, as a professor I do invest more time with these students, as it is my job at a SLAC to work with students. I have no TA and my students benefit from one on one conversations. My students are human beings to me, not just a group of numbers or labels.

Yet you categorize some not even knowing their background as "the cliff kids" or "DEI efforts". You could easily categorize them as "less coddled" and it would be apt and accurate yet you don't, you categorize them as less and the "coddled and tutored" as more.

There are no SLACs without tutors and writing centers.

it's okay, I get it, you have been a professor for 20 years, professors are luddites by nature and the world is passing you by in many ways and it's hard to keep up. But, have you ever just stopped to think, hey maybe I'm hitting the cliff, maybe I'm not the one keeping up.

Zoom, texting, bulletin boards, online lectures... every job has new things to learn every year, maybe it's just too much for you.

DP: Wow, your stereotypes are telling.

Perhaps or maybe the “professor” could do some self reflection and ask for mentoring from a younger colleague to get back up to speed.

It happens in every profession. There is no shame in falling behind the curve sometimes. We can’t always be at the top of our game for 20+ straight years.

Often it’s helpful to step back take time to identify your strengths and weaknesses and do better.

The world is moving quickly.

NP. You are just awful.

DP. Agreed. That PP sounds so arrogant and ignorant. Sometimes the anti-educational trolling on this board feels political even when it isn't overt. I wish we had logins for this board to see how much of this comes from the same source(s). It would at least temper the antagonism.

+1 This board always kind of sucked, but now it sucks in a tedious, repetitive way. I find myself hardly ever checking in anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm just an adjunct, teaching at a state U, so take this FWIW. I agree with A LOT of what the SLAC professor wrote upthread. Our populations have similar challenges. I hear similar reflections from colleagues.

I think everyone has pretty well covered that these young adults have expectations that they will be coddled. They don't know how to take notes, either from reading material or lectures, expect that they will get study guides, that reading through that at the last minute is sufficient to do well in class (it's necessary, but not sufficient), that the assigned reading is somehow optional, ....

I make myself quite available to help out my students, but am never taken up on this, until the end of semesters, when all of a sudden, half the class wants to know how they can bring their grades up, could I give them extra credit, can I read drafts of their work before submission, etc. Then there are the thousand questions about how the grading actually works, what the class rules are, what's covered in class (!!!). Things that are explained on the first day of class, and talked about periodically.

Additionally, a lot of students have absolutely no idea how to interact with their teachers. One does not address their instructors as one would their peers (there might be exceptions for grad students). There is an expectation that emails use correctly spelled words, in proper context, with decent grammar, and punctuation. It's not the same as texting one's friends. Emails have to be signed with their name. One does not call in mommy and daddy if things go sideways. I could go on. If the parents just taught their kids some basic life skills, and instilled decent study habits, life would be so much easier.

OP / thanks you Adjunct Prof! I don’t think you should say “just” since adjuncts do so much of the teaching at many universities and you probably have a very good idea of what is going on.

We will probably encourage DC to get writing skills coaching prior to college. I agree that texting style communication is not appropriate for communicating with professors and TAs.

I will add “talk to professors and TAs early on in semesters” as advice for DC.

We are working on the life skills and study habits. I don’t plan on contacting professors or TAs (and never did for older DC).

It is very helpful to hear from college professors such as yourself about how our children can get more out of their college years.

Thank you

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:SLAC prof here. Haven't read all the responses, too tired from being overworked. I have seen a drop, not necessarily a big drop, but a significant one, over the past 20+ years of teaching at different institutions. Some of it began before the pandemic, especially mental health, but the pandemic exacerbated it in terms of students not being accountable for turning in work on time, etc. I've also seen a change in critical thinking that I think has at least two root causes - being taught to take a test in high school (even or especially even APs), but also the post-truth era. Lastly, I might only speak for my current institution here, but we've made intentional DEI efforts and our recruiting has changed. This is partially because of the social justice aspect of making a SLAC education more accessible to different kinds of students, but it also has to do with the demographic cliff. This has led to recruiting students from high schools and family environments that have not enabled adequate preparation for college. This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.

Universities need to and are shifting to the wraparound services that they provide - ranging from more mental health supports, to increased accommodations and social and financial supports. This is necessary for students to succeed. But it is also taxing for an institution and the realities of grade inflation and students slipping through the cracks can and does occur.

OP

Thank you SLAC professor.

That is an interesting point about the post truth era.. what does this mean in terms of higher education? Don’t students still have to back up theoretical claims with empirical or scientific evidence?

Also interesting that you have observed a drop over such a long time.

Agree that mental health care is necessary for learning.

Thanks for your reply.

Interesting the professor thinks the students have the ability to learn and perform and have great potential but since they haven’t had as many privileges they consider the students “less”.

OP -
He or she can speak for themself but I personally did not interpret his remarks in that way .

“This has nothing to do with their potential to succeed, but a reality of socioeconomic background as it relates to preparedness.”

To me, she or he is saying that colleges are wrestling with DEI challenges - they want to be inclusive of a broader field of students but are aware that students from disadvantaged schools or homes face significant obstacles in college preparedness. That does not mean the challenges can’t be overcome but more work and attention is needed by colleges and professors to help them to adapt and succeed.

That is how I interpreted the comments anyway.

SLAC prof here again, yes, this is what I meant. And yes, as a professor I do invest more time with these students, as it is my job at a SLAC to work with students. I have no TA and my students benefit from one on one conversations. My students are human beings to me, not just a group of numbers or labels.

Yet you categorize some not even knowing their background as "the cliff kids" or "DEI efforts". You could easily categorize them as "less coddled" and it would be apt and accurate yet you don't, you categorize them as less and the "coddled and tutored" as more.

There are no SLACs without tutors and writing centers.

it's okay, I get it, you have been a professor for 20 years, professors are luddites by nature and the world is passing you by in many ways and it's hard to keep up. But, have you ever just stopped to think, hey maybe I'm hitting the cliff, maybe I'm not the one keeping up.

Zoom, texting, bulletin boards, online lectures... every job has new things to learn every year, maybe it's just too much for you.

DP: Wow, your stereotypes are telling.

Perhaps or maybe the “professor” could do some self reflection and ask for mentoring from a younger colleague to get back up to speed.

It happens in every profession. There is no shame in falling behind the curve sometimes. We can’t always be at the top of our game for 20+ straight years.

Often it’s helpful to step back take time to identify your strengths and weaknesses and do better.

The world is moving quickly.

NP. You are just awful.

DP. Agreed. That PP sounds so arrogant and ignorant. Sometimes the anti-educational trolling on this board feels political even when it isn't overt. I wish we had logins for this board to see how much of this comes from the same source(s). It would at least temper the antagonism.

+1 This board always kind of sucked, but now it sucks in a tedious, repetitive way. I find myself hardly ever checking in anymore.

Ok but the vast majority of professors who responded were constructive and pleasant. This unpleasant prof attacking a peer for no reason was an outlier.