Neighbor is unmediated schizophrenic; anything to do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Up until this year my son was a typical college student. He moved home after his second year, and I fear he will never launch. This could happen to any of your children, it certainly came out of the blue for us (no trauma or family history).

We (he, my spouse and I, plus his psychiatrist) are doing everything we can to find the right balance of medications and therapy. It's such a difficult road, you cannot even imagine. The vast majority of those diagnosed with a severe mental illness are no harm to you, your family or your neighborhood.

I am so sorry for your situation. Far more common than folks realize. Is am wishing you strength!

What issue(s) is he having such that you fear he will never launch?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that schizophrenics can become paranoid and violent. I would be very worried if I were the neighbors. Set up cameras, fence, etc, and help out the parents with county information and resources.

+1 Posters saying they're rarely paranoid and harm others are incorrect.

+1. This is the primary concern. Sorry for the parents and family but OP should be concerned about the safety of her own family. If you can afford to move, do it. Your children do not have to live next door to a schizophrenic who could potentially be violent to learn about mental illness. Safety first.

Note all the PPs advising that OP care for the neighbors mental state, call parents to offer support, and essential dismiss her own safety are typing away from the safety and comfort of their own homes - where they are likely not living next door to potential risks to their families.

What a bizarre idea. I have a severely mentally ill person in my home with me; that's the basis for my advice. Clutch your pearls all you want about it, I guess.

Don't call the cops.

If there is ever an unstable, mentally ill human who could potentially cause harm to my family wreaking havoc in the streets, I am absolutely calling the police.

No crime has been committed. “Wreaking havoc?” Are you 80?

Hopefully they ticket you or cote you for wasting their time and filing a false report.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:screaming in public probably qualifies as "public disorder"

And you think the police will solve this problem how? Are they going to treat or house the individual? No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that schizophrenics can become paranoid and violent. I would be very worried if I were the neighbors. Set up cameras, fence, etc, and help out the parents with county information and resources.

+1 Posters saying they're rarely paranoid and harm others are incorrect.

No, statistically those posters are correct and you are not.

PP here. You can quote statistics, but it's not a rare occurrence for unmedicated individuals with schizophrenia to experienced paranoia and become aggressive. (I didn't say most.)

A. This poster actually has no idea whether or not her neighbor is unmedicated. None. Zip. Zero. I realize the armchair mental health warriors here strongly believe that if people with schizophrenia just took their meds, they would act normal. That is not the case.

B. It is nowhere near common enough to justify calling the police just because a person is behaving in an unseemly way in public. What exactly do you think the cops are going to do?

Sadly, there are many men and women walking the streets of big cities because people think it's a better life than being in long-term care in a hospital or group home. I strongly disagree.

Have you been in long-term care in a hospital or a group home?

I'm not mentally ill but have an older family member who was hospitalized for all of his adult life. I also work in the special education field.

So the answer is no.

The answer is "yes" I have been inside one. The answer is "no" I haven't been institutionalized.

No, you have never been “in long-term care in a hospital or group home.” Having been physically inside a facility is not a relevant qualification for an opinion on this topic.

You were having difficulty understanding my response, so I gave you clarification.

I was having no difficulty understanding that you were engaged in obfuscation. Of course physicians’ opinions would be relevant. The opinion of someone who has merely visited these facilities ain’t that.

I told you I work in the specoal education field. Yes, my work involves teens and adults who require long-term instotutional and/or group home and psychiatric care.

That's great. It has nothing to do with your qualifications for having an opinion about what anyone else should be forced to do because you think it's a "better life" than the life they are living now.

If your services and proposed course of treatment can't be made attractive enough to draw these folks in voluntarily, and keep them there, you have a model that is either going to require an even bigger carceral state to achieve or you have a model that will never work. Maybe both.

How about they make a decision about what’s a better life when they’re medicated and rational instead of in the grip of a psychotic episode. People are such effing ignorant-yet-opinionated idiots about psychosis. It’s not diversity day it’s a fu*king medical problem and it is inhumane not to get them treatment.

I think there's someone posting here who has mental health challenges and is very resistant to interventions due to past treatments that were unsuccessful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Individuals with schizophrenia are 4 to 7 times more likely to commit violent crimes, such as assault and homicide [4,5], and 4 to 6 times more likely to exhibit general aggressive behavior, such as verbal and physical threats [10,11], compared with the general population.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6852683/

I'm not seeing the evidence for there being no danger here. It certainly seems rational and borne out by the above statistics. Quoting platitudes about statistics that lump all mental illnesses together, like someone with mild depression or anxiety is similar to a paranoid schizophrenic, is not helpful.

My brother went to high school with three unrelated guys who developed paranoid schizophrenia after graduation. Two of the three killed other people in the midst of delusions and are locked up at Clifton T. Perkins. I don't see why OP is being attacked for being concerned about this neighbor's behavior.

I NEVER said NO danger. But while your link is true, so is mine and everything else I posted. I am a former prosecutor with decades of experience with the seriously mentally ill in the criminal justice system. You are still far more likely to be murdered by your allegedly loving husband than by a schizophrenic neighbor with florid psychosis. Violent crime associated with schizophrenia makes up less than 10% of violent crime. Do you understand that this means 90% is committed by sane persons? And no, it’s not all crime committed by black thugs in neighborhoods you’d never be caught in - plenty of that crime is committed by white husbands that look just like yours. Your bias against the mentally ill is particularly sad viewed by a person who spent decades working with victims of crime, many of whom were mentally ill.

Of course a reasonable amount of concern is warranted - but addressing it should start with some self education on the issues that doesn’t ignore the weight of the evidence. Again, FAR more to fear from the husband who suddenly gets a notion to change his life but wants to avoid the costs associated with letting you continue to live on this planet.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-of-psychiatry/article/violence-and-schizophrenia-examining-the-evidence/BEC530F212F98C0400D3D32CB2710BA9

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Individuals with schizophrenia are 4 to 7 times more likely to commit violent crimes, such as assault and homicide [4,5], and 4 to 6 times more likely to exhibit general aggressive behavior, such as verbal and physical threats [10,11], compared with the general population.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6852683/

I'm not seeing the evidence for there being no danger here. It certainly seems rational and borne out by the above statistics. Quoting platitudes about statistics that lump all mental illnesses together, like someone with mild depression or anxiety is similar to a paranoid schizophrenic, is not helpful.

My brother went to high school with three unrelated guys who developed paranoid schizophrenia after graduation. Two of the three killed other people in the midst of delusions and are locked up at Clifton T. Perkins. I don't see why OP is being attacked for being concerned about this neighbor's behavior.

I NEVER said NO danger. But while your link is true, so is mine and everything else I posted. I am a former prosecutor with decades of experience with the seriously mentally ill in the criminal justice system. You are still far more likely to be murdered by your allegedly loving husband than by a schizophrenic neighbor with florid psychosis. Violent crime associated with schizophrenia makes up less than 10% of violent crime. Do you understand that this means 90% is committed by sane persons? And no, it’s not all crime committed by black thugs in neighborhoods you’d never be caught in - plenty of that crime is committed by white husbands that look just like yours. Your bias against the mentally ill is particularly sad viewed by a person who spent decades working with victims of crime, many of whom were mentally ill.

Of course a reasonable amount of concern is warranted - but addressing it should start with some self education on the issues that doesn’t ignore the weight of the evidence. Again, FAR more to fear from the husband who suddenly gets a notion to change his life but wants to avoid the costs associated with letting you continue to live on this planet.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-of-psychiatry/article/violence-and-schizophrenia-examining-the-evidence/BEC530F212F98C0400D3D32CB2710BA9

The problem is that mentally ill people are safe to be around until the moment that they aren't, and then it is too late. There are plenty of family members who have been murdered by their own child or sibling or grandchild who is living with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Individuals with schizophrenia are 4 to 7 times more likely to commit violent crimes, such as assault and homicide [4,5], and 4 to 6 times more likely to exhibit general aggressive behavior, such as verbal and physical threats [10,11], compared with the general population.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6852683/

I'm not seeing the evidence for there being no danger here. It certainly seems rational and borne out by the above statistics. Quoting platitudes about statistics that lump all mental illnesses together, like someone with mild depression or anxiety is similar to a paranoid schizophrenic, is not helpful.

My brother went to high school with three unrelated guys who developed paranoid schizophrenia after graduation. Two of the three killed other people in the midst of delusions and are locked up at Clifton T. Perkins. I don't see why OP is being attacked for being concerned about this neighbor's behavior.

I NEVER said NO danger. But while your link is true, so is mine and everything else I posted. I am a former prosecutor with decades of experience with the seriously mentally ill in the criminal justice system. You are still far more likely to be murdered by your allegedly loving husband than by a schizophrenic neighbor with florid psychosis. Violent crime associated with schizophrenia makes up less than 10% of violent crime. Do you understand that this means 90% is committed by sane persons? And no, it’s not all crime committed by black thugs in neighborhoods you’d never be caught in - plenty of that crime is committed by white husbands that look just like yours. Your bias against the mentally ill is particularly sad viewed by a person who spent decades working with victims of crime, many of whom were mentally ill.

Of course a reasonable amount of concern is warranted - but addressing it should start with some self education on the issues that doesn’t ignore the weight of the evidence. Again, FAR more to fear from the husband who suddenly gets a notion to change his life but wants to avoid the costs associated with letting you continue to live on this planet.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-of-psychiatry/article/violence-and-schizophrenia-examining-the-evidence/BEC530F212F98C0400D3D32CB2710BA9

I hate myself for doing this, because I have the utmost sympathy for schizophrenics (my son's friend is a medicated schizophrenic) and would never report OP's neighbor to the police. But as somebody who deals with numbers all day, it's impossible to ignore that schizophrenics are a much smaller share of the population than the 10% of violent crimes committed by schizophrenics (https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/schizophrenia).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Individuals with schizophrenia are 4 to 7 times more likely to commit violent crimes, such as assault and homicide [4,5], and 4 to 6 times more likely to exhibit general aggressive behavior, such as verbal and physical threats [10,11], compared with the general population.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6852683/

I'm not seeing the evidence for there being no danger here. It certainly seems rational and borne out by the above statistics. Quoting platitudes about statistics that lump all mental illnesses together, like someone with mild depression or anxiety is similar to a paranoid schizophrenic, is not helpful.

My brother went to high school with three unrelated guys who developed paranoid schizophrenia after graduation. Two of the three killed other people in the midst of delusions and are locked up at Clifton T. Perkins. I don't see why OP is being attacked for being concerned about this neighbor's behavior.

I NEVER said NO danger. But while your link is true, so is mine and everything else I posted. I am a former prosecutor with decades of experience with the seriously mentally ill in the criminal justice system. You are still far more likely to be murdered by your allegedly loving husband than by a schizophrenic neighbor with florid psychosis. Violent crime associated with schizophrenia makes up less than 10% of violent crime. Do you understand that this means 90% is committed by sane persons? And no, it’s not all crime committed by black thugs in neighborhoods you’d never be caught in - plenty of that crime is committed by white husbands that look just like yours. Your bias against the mentally ill is particularly sad viewed by a person who spent decades working with victims of crime, many of whom were mentally ill.

Of course a reasonable amount of concern is warranted - but addressing it should start with some self education on the issues that doesn’t ignore the weight of the evidence. Again, FAR more to fear from the husband who suddenly gets a notion to change his life but wants to avoid the costs associated with letting you continue to live on this planet.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-of-psychiatry/article/violence-and-schizophrenia-examining-the-evidence/BEC530F212F98C0400D3D32CB2710BA9

The problem is that mentally ill people are safe to be around until the moment that they aren't, and then it is too late. There are plenty of family members who have been murdered by their own child or sibling or grandchild who is living with them.

+1 Of course, statistics will show that a person is more likely to be physically harmed by a spouse as the PP reported; however, that's because most people aren't living in close quarters with a schizophrenic in a florid psychotic state. OP does have valid concerns because of the proximity and unpredictable behavior of her neighbor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that schizophrenics can become paranoid and violent. I would be very worried if I were the neighbors. Set up cameras, fence, etc, and help out the parents with county information and resources.

+1 Posters saying they're rarely paranoid and harm others are incorrect.

No, statistically those posters are correct and you are not.

PP here. You can quote statistics, but it's not a rare occurrence for unmedicated individuals with schizophrenia to experienced paranoia and become aggressive. (I didn't say most.)

A. This poster actually has no idea whether or not her neighbor is unmedicated. None. Zip. Zero. I realize the armchair mental health warriors here strongly believe that if people with schizophrenia just took their meds, they would act normal. That is not the case.

B. It is nowhere near common enough to justify calling the police just because a person is behaving in an unseemly way in public. What exactly do you think the cops are going to do?

Sadly, there are many men and women walking the streets of big cities because people think it's a better life than being in long-term care in a hospital or group home. I strongly disagree.

Have you been in long-term care in a hospital or a group home?

I'm not mentally ill but have an older family member who was hospitalized for all of his adult life. I also work in the special education field.

So the answer is no.

The answer is "yes" I have been inside one. The answer is "no" I haven't been institutionalized.

No, you have never been “in long-term care in a hospital or group home.” Having been physically inside a facility is not a relevant qualification for an opinion on this topic.

You were having difficulty understanding my response, so I gave you clarification.

I was having no difficulty understanding that you were engaged in obfuscation. Of course physicians’ opinions would be relevant. The opinion of someone who has merely visited these facilities ain’t that.

I told you I work in the specoal education field. Yes, my work involves teens and adults who require long-term instotutional and/or group home and psychiatric care.

That's great. It has nothing to do with your qualifications for having an opinion about what anyone else should be forced to do because you think it's a "better life" than the life they are living now.

If your services and proposed course of treatment can't be made attractive enough to draw these folks in voluntarily, and keep them there, you have a model that is either going to require an even bigger carceral state to achieve or you have a model that will never work. Maybe both.

How about they make a decision about what’s a better life when they’re medicated and rational instead of in the grip of a psychotic episode. People are such effing ignorant-yet-opinionated idiots about psychosis. It’s not diversity day it’s a fu*king medical problem and it is inhumane not to get them treatment.

I think there's someone posting here who has mental health challenges and is very resistant to interventions due to past treatments that were unsuccessful.

If that’s the case, maybe we should think about why. Not everything a psychotic person does is irrational. Treatments with bad side effect profiles—including risks of diabetes and early death that none of you posting here would likely accept for yourselves (judging from the normative DCUM threads about obesity and disease risk)—and that do not fully remit symptoms (or remit them at all) are not a thing we, as a society, should be forcing on people via the action of the legal system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sad situation-young neighbor (late 20s)--went to college, moved home, never launched and is now suffering from schizophrenia. Spends the days outside, screaming, talking, howling , etc. Lives with elderly parents. My understanding is he is unmedicated.
I see it but don't hear the behavior because I'm a few houses away. next door neighbors are concerned-they have young kids who are outside daily. This is a Bethesda-like neighborhood.

Anything we can do? Should we be concerned? Anyone have experience with something similar.
Thank you!

It's a very sad situation but unfortunately most schizoprenics refuse treatment, and as a neighbor, there is nothing you can do.

I'm a sibling of someone on this situation --- even for me, there was nothing I could do. I almost called for an involuntary committment a few times, because I felt my life was in danger, but that is not a great solution -- they hold them for a few days and then send them back, furious. My parents have some power to act but wont.

Stay safe, call 911 if you ever feel like he is a danger to himself or others, but other than that, you have no control over this situaton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that schizophrenics can become paranoid and violent. I would be very worried if I were the neighbors. Set up cameras, fence, etc, and help out the parents with county information and resources.

+1 Posters saying they're rarely paranoid and harm others are incorrect.

No, statistically those posters are correct and you are not.

PP here. You can quote statistics, but it's not a rare occurrence for unmedicated individuals with schizophrenia to experienced paranoia and become aggressive. (I didn't say most.)

A. This poster actually has no idea whether or not her neighbor is unmedicated. None. Zip. Zero. I realize the armchair mental health warriors here strongly believe that if people with schizophrenia just took their meds, they would act normal. That is not the case.

B. It is nowhere near common enough to justify calling the police just because a person is behaving in an unseemly way in public. What exactly do you think the cops are going to do?

Sadly, there are many men and women walking the streets of big cities because people think it's a better life than being in long-term care in a hospital or group home. I strongly disagree.

Have you been in long-term care in a hospital or a group home?

I'm not mentally ill but have an older family member who was hospitalized for all of his adult life. I also work in the special education field.

So the answer is no.

The answer is "yes" I have been inside one. The answer is "no" I haven't been institutionalized.

No, you have never been “in long-term care in a hospital or group home.” Having been physically inside a facility is not a relevant qualification for an opinion on this topic.

You were having difficulty understanding my response, so I gave you clarification.

I was having no difficulty understanding that you were engaged in obfuscation. Of course physicians’ opinions would be relevant. The opinion of someone who has merely visited these facilities ain’t that.

I told you I work in the specoal education field. Yes, my work involves teens and adults who require long-term instotutional and/or group home and psychiatric care.

That's great. It has nothing to do with your qualifications for having an opinion about what anyone else should be forced to do because you think it's a "better life" than the life they are living now.

If your services and proposed course of treatment can't be made attractive enough to draw these folks in voluntarily, and keep them there, you have a model that is either going to require an even bigger carceral state to achieve or you have a model that will never work. Maybe both.

How about they make a decision about what’s a better life when they’re medicated and rational instead of in the grip of a psychotic episode. People are such effing ignorant-yet-opinionated idiots about psychosis. It’s not diversity day it’s a fu*king medical problem and it is inhumane not to get them treatment.

I think there's someone posting here who has mental health challenges and is very resistant to interventions due to past treatments that were unsuccessful.

If that’s the case, maybe we should think about why. Not everything a psychotic person does is irrational. Treatments with bad side effect profiles—including risks of diabetes and early death that none of you posting here would likely accept for yourselves (judging from the normative DCUM threads about obesity and disease risk)—and that do not fully remit symptoms (or remit them at all) are not a thing we, as a society, should be forcing on people via the action of the legal system.

PP here. Truth is that there are no perfect or easy answers. I do understand the concerns about medications and hospitalizations for various psychiatric disorders and neurodevelopmental disorders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:screaming in public probably qualifies as "public disorder"

And you think the police will solve this problem how? Are they going to treat or house the individual? No.

Over half a dozen responses in this thread have already suggested calling the police on this person.

Apparently it’s what many would do in response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:screaming in public probably qualifies as "public disorder"

And you think the police will solve this problem how? Are they going to treat or house the individual? No.

Over half a dozen responses in this thread have already suggested calling the police on this person.

Apparently it’s what many would do in response.

Because apparently they don’t understand mental illness, or the police.

[Anonymous]

If there were anything to do he wouldn’t be out in the yard screaming. Police have no role in this situation and it’s very difficult to force treatment. Very difficult and expensive to get person institutionalized. So in all likelihood whoever kind soul is housing the person is probably already doing everything there is to do. Maybe they needed a break and that’s why the person is outside. Stop for a minute and think about the family or individual who has to live with this in their home every day not just through the window like you.

[Anonymous]

Many people here do not realize how difficult it is to get appropriate treatment for a mentally ill family member.

As others have pointed out, even if a person is determined to be a danger to himself or others, they are hospitalized only briefly. Psychiatrists in this area are hard to get into and are essentially private pay. Add to that the issue that the particular illness may not be amenable to medication but may need specialized therapy that is not widely available.

That leaves very expensive private pay inpatient options, most of which have limited or no insurance coverage. We are looking into that now for our family member, but the financial implications are considerable.

Yes, we keep the person at home and battle the medication out with him. For those not in this situation, be grateful we don't put him on the streets. If there is anything the world doesn't need it is one more mentally ill homeless person.