MCPS Teachers Quitting? Who is replacing them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not in MCPS, but I'm a teacher who quit. I was extremely successful and every single year my students made about a year and a half worth of growth. I was definitely underpaid, results or not. But, I was so demoralized when I left that it's really difficult to come up with a number that might have gotten me to stay. The entire education system has to change.

And I truly believe that in the next 5-10 years, schools won't be able to remain open. I think it is extremely realistic to imagine parents will be getting robo calls on Sunday nights to learn their school won't be able to open that week because there isn't staff to open safely. I think it's realistic to think that high schools won't be able to offer ANY clubs, sports, AP classes, etc, and that academic classes will have 80-200 kids in them, lecture style. I suspect online learning will be the norm for people who can afford a sahp and internet and everyone else will be screwed. I think buildings are going to close, most of the education programs in universities will close (the ones that haven't already). I think students with special needs won't be getting any services. The system is crumbling and is far worse than any parent I know realizes.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not in MCPS, but I'm a teacher who quit. I was extremely successful and every single year my students made about a year and a half worth of growth. I was definitely underpaid, results or not. But, I was so demoralized when I left that it's really difficult to come up with a number that might have gotten me to stay. The entire education system has to change.

And I truly believe that in the next 5-10 years, schools won't be able to remain open. I think it is extremely realistic to imagine parents will be getting robo calls on Sunday nights to learn their school won't be able to open that week because there isn't staff to open safely. I think it's realistic to think that high schools won't be able to offer ANY clubs, sports, AP classes, etc, and that academic classes will have 80-200 kids in them, lecture style. I suspect online learning will be the norm for people who can afford a sahp and internet and everyone else will be screwed. I think buildings are going to close, most of the education programs in universities will close (the ones that haven't already). I think students with special needs won't be getting any services. The system is crumbling and is far worse than any parent I know realizes.

This is actually a good thing. Give families the money and the market will educate. New Americans already do this with cram schools - Kumon, mathnasium. In MCPS this is where real education happens anyways. Let’s cut out the middleman. Product of Buffalo public schools and taught kids/used cram schools during pandemic But realize places like MCPS need to close. So much better than public school. RIP.

Peel off the top 25% that can afford to go private with less than $20,000 and there'll be not much left of MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not in MCPS, but I'm a teacher who quit. I was extremely successful and every single year my students made about a year and a half worth of growth. I was definitely underpaid, results or not. But, I was so demoralized when I left that it's really difficult to come up with a number that might have gotten me to stay. The entire education system has to change.

And I truly believe that in the next 5-10 years, schools won't be able to remain open. I think it is extremely realistic to imagine parents will be getting robo calls on Sunday nights to learn their school won't be able to open that week because there isn't staff to open safely. I think it's realistic to think that high schools won't be able to offer ANY clubs, sports, AP classes, etc, and that academic classes will have 80-200 kids in them, lecture style. I suspect online learning will be the norm for people who can afford a sahp and internet and everyone else will be screwed. I think buildings are going to close, most of the education programs in universities will close (the ones that haven't already). I think students with special needs won't be getting any services. The system is crumbling and is far worse than any parent I know realizes.

This is actually a good thing. Give families the money and the market will educate. New Americans already do this with cram schools - Kumon, mathnasium. In MCPS this is where real education happens anyways. Let’s cut out the middleman. Product of Buffalo public schools and taught kids/used cram schools during pandemic But realize places like MCPS need to close. So much better than public school. RIP.

Public school in the US is kind of a disaster. I'd like to see some school choice in Montgomery County, but our political leaders would fight that tooth and nail.

At the very least, let students opt of of classes if they can demonstrate proficiency. If my kid can pass an Algebra test (because she's learned Algebra elsewhere), don't make her take it again with the crappy MCPS version. If my kid speaks Spanish and can pass the AP Spanish test, let her opt out of the language requirement.

This would require a huge overhaul of public education and I don't see the political will until things get as bad as what the PP is describing and the entire system just 'crumbles'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I left mid-year for safety issues and lack of support from administration. From a W cluster ES. Long-term subs taking over, many unqualified, sometimes there are no subs.

Not going back, my sanity and safety aren't worth it

I would very much like to know specifics about the safety issues an lack of support from admin. I'm a parent that would like to be helpful to the teachers and I think we just don't have enough details to know.

[Anonymous]

You can't say anything. Privacy issues.

[Anonymous]

For starters, there are kids in classrooms throwing chairs and nothing can be done except move all the other kids to safety. Extreme behavior issues are going on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I left mid-year for safety issues and lack of support from administration. From a W cluster ES. Long-term subs taking over, many unqualified, sometimes there are no subs.

Not going back, my sanity and safety aren't worth it

I would very much like to know specifics about the safety issues an lack of support from admin. I'm a parent that would like to be helpful to the teachers and I think we just don't have enough details to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not in MCPS, but I'm a teacher who quit. I was extremely successful and every single year my students made about a year and a half worth of growth. I was definitely underpaid, results or not. But, I was so demoralized when I left that it's really difficult to come up with a number that might have gotten me to stay. The entire education system has to change.

And I truly believe that in the next 5-10 years, schools won't be able to remain open. I think it is extremely realistic to imagine parents will be getting robo calls on Sunday nights to learn their school won't be able to open that week because there isn't staff to open safely. I think it's realistic to think that high schools won't be able to offer ANY clubs, sports, AP classes, etc, and that academic classes will have 80-200 kids in them, lecture style. I suspect online learning will be the norm for people who can afford a sahp and internet and everyone else will be screwed. I think buildings are going to close, most of the education programs in universities will close (the ones that haven't already). I think students with special needs won't be getting any services. The system is crumbling and is far worse than any parent I know realizes.

This is actually a good thing. Give families the money and the market will educate. New Americans already do this with cram schools - Kumon, mathnasium. In MCPS this is where real education happens anyways. Let’s cut out the middleman. Product of Buffalo public schools and taught kids/used cram schools during pandemic But realize places like MCPS need to close. So much better than public school. RIP.

Public school in the US is kind of a disaster. I'd like to see some school choice in Montgomery County, but our political leaders would fight that tooth and nail.

At the very least, let students opt of of classes if they can demonstrate proficiency. If my kid can pass an Algebra test (because she's learned Algebra elsewhere), don't make her take it again with the crappy MCPS version. If my kid speaks Spanish and can pass the AP Spanish test, let her opt out of the language requirement.

This would require a huge overhaul of public education and I don't see the political will until things get as bad as what the PP is describing and the entire system just 'crumbles'.

And here it is the culmination of twisting and spitting facts all along to present their agenda. We get it. You resent paying taxes to support public schools and want to get them. Thanks but no thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I left mid-year for safety issues and lack of support from administration. From a W cluster ES. Long-term subs taking over, many unqualified, sometimes there are no subs.

Not going back, my sanity and safety aren't worth it

I would very much like to know specifics about the safety issues a lack of support from admin. I'm a parent that would like to be helpful to the teachers and I think we just don't have enough details to know.

Multiple kids in my ES have such physical dangerous behaviors of throwing chairs and shoving desks and punching kids. But no adult can touch them, no restraint to keep them from harming others. So they clear the classrooms and bring counselors by to spend 30m to 2 hours trying to calm the kid down. The out of control kid has more rights than the well behaved ones. Then they come back the next day and they may just do it again, there's no repercussions. Some have obvious special needs, some don't. One of the students with clear special needs desperately needs a new placement, but mcps makes it hard, a slow painful process. So then what? Can't withhold recess. Parents practically hand the kid their phone when they pick them up to placate them, so no repercussions at home either. The admin, counselors, and teachers work so increasingly hard to keep routine and practice anger management and calming strategies, but it's just too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I left mid-year for safety issues and lack of support from administration. From a W cluster ES. Long-term subs taking over, many unqualified, sometimes there are no subs.

Not going back, my sanity and safety aren't worth it

I would very much like to know specifics about the safety issues a lack of support from admin. I'm a parent that would like to be helpful to the teachers and I think we just don't have enough details to know.

Multiple kids in my ES have such physical dangerous behaviors of throwing chairs and shoving desks and punching kids. But no adult can touch them, no restraint to keep them from harming others. So they clear the classrooms and bring counselors by to spend 30m to 2 hours trying to calm the kid down. The out of control kid has more rights than the well behaved ones. Then they come back the next day and they may just do it again, there's no repercussions. Some have obvious special needs, some don't. One of the students with clear special needs desperately needs a new placement, but mcps makes it hard, a slow painful process. So then what? Can't withhold recess. Parents practically hand the kid their phone when they pick them up to placate them, so no repercussions at home either. The admin, counselors, and teachers work so increasingly hard to keep routine and practice anger management and calming strategies, but it's just too much.

Do we work at the same school? As exhausted and defeated I feel at the end of the day, I feel terrible for the 95% of my first grade students who just want a stable, positive classroom environment. It's so scary that they see these wild behaviors as normal now and are almost numb to the daily outbursts in the classroom from a few kids. Admin can't send kids home unless they suspend them which isn't allowed most of the time. I don't know how we as a society are going to fix this problem. There will not be any teachers left if we continue down this path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not in MCPS, but I'm a teacher who quit. I was extremely successful and every single year my students made about a year and a half worth of growth. I was definitely underpaid, results or not. But, I was so demoralized when I left that it's really difficult to come up with a number that might have gotten me to stay. The entire education system has to change.

And I truly believe that in the next 5-10 years, schools won't be able to remain open. I think it is extremely realistic to imagine parents will be getting robo calls on Sunday nights to learn their school won't be able to open that week because there isn't staff to open safely. I think it's realistic to think that high schools won't be able to offer ANY clubs, sports, AP classes, etc, and that academic classes will have 80-200 kids in them, lecture style. I suspect online learning will be the norm for people who can afford a sahp and internet and everyone else will be screwed. I think buildings are going to close, most of the education programs in universities will close (the ones that haven't already). I think students with special needs won't be getting any services. The system is crumbling and is far worse than any parent I know realizes.

This is actually a good thing. Give families the money and the market will educate. New Americans already do this with cram schools - Kumon, mathnasium. In MCPS this is where real education happens anyways. Let’s cut out the middleman. Product of Buffalo public schools and taught kids/used cram schools during pandemic But realize places like MCPS need to close. So much better than public school. RIP.

Public school in the US is kind of a disaster. I'd like to see some school choice in Montgomery County, but our political leaders would fight that tooth and nail.

At the very least, let students opt of of classes if they can demonstrate proficiency. If my kid can pass an Algebra test (because she's learned Algebra elsewhere), don't make her take it again with the crappy MCPS version. If my kid speaks Spanish and can pass the AP Spanish test, let her opt out of the language requirement.

This would require a huge overhaul of public education and I don't see the political will until things get as bad as what the PP is describing and the entire system just 'crumbles'.

And here it is the culmination of twisting and spitting facts all along to present their agenda. We get it. You resent paying taxes to support public schools and want to get them. Thanks but no thanks.

No. I resent throwing more money at a corrupt and dysfunctional public school system.

Either clean up and fix the broken system or give parents an alternative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question: What would improve the situation?

-What is a reasonable starting salary for a 10 month job?

-What would improve the academics?

Honestly? Parenting your children better. Holding them accountable for their actions. Being stricter about manners and respecting the adults in charge of them. Limiting screens and the things they are exposed to at SUCH a young age.

It's the out of control behavior that is the #1 problem. And don't say "well if only the teacher had better control" because they are trying their absolute hardest. I'm in and out of elementary classrooms all day in my role and I see how hard they are working. Kids who are entertained by iPads from the time they get home until bedtime can't sit and focus, the attention span is so low for many kids.

And don't get me wrong, there are so many wonderful kids out there, I'm not quitting because I truly care about them, but OVERALL its behavior and parents need to step it up. It's a crisis.

I wonder if the teachers in affluent elementary schools have the same issues as those at more diverse schools?

I know all kids use screens, but I think there are other factors related to what you are describing.

My two cents:

-Starting salaries should be $65k.

-Teachers should receive loan forgiveness if they teach at a public school for 10 years.

-Teachers should receive some sort of tax credit.

-The curriculum should be overhauled. Kids should be grouped by ability and receive instruction for math and reading for the entire period (meaning kids switch classrooms, not relying on one teacher to race through groups while kids work independently). The blocks could be scaled back leaving more time to teach things like cursive, vocabulary, grammar, etc.

-Invest in workbooks or materials and assign legit homework.

-Put kids in rows instead of group tables for the bulk of the day.

-No screens at elementary school unless there is a compelling academic reason.

-Kids who are repeatedly disruptive should be sent home. I don’t care if their parents are working or not. Quickly make it an issue they need to address at home.

just a few months ago, PP was an expert on Covid, vaccines and masking. in a few years, she'll educate us all on college admissions. everything just comes so easy to her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For starters, there are kids in classrooms throwing chairs and nothing can be done except move all the other kids to safety. Extreme behavior issues are going on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I left mid-year for safety issues and lack of support from administration. From a W cluster ES. Long-term subs taking over, many unqualified, sometimes there are no subs.

Not going back, my sanity and safety aren't worth it

I would very much like to know specifics about the safety issues an lack of support from admin. I'm a parent that would like to be helpful to the teachers and I think we just don't have enough details to know.

How nice that you would like to know. However, as already stated, we can't say anything due to privacy issues.

It's unfortunate that in our non-comunicative special ed classroom, our kids cannot tell their parents what is really going on, and neither can the teachers, paras, or team members.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not in MCPS, but I'm a teacher who quit. I was extremely successful and every single year my students made about a year and a half worth of growth. I was definitely underpaid, results or not. But, I was so demoralized when I left that it's really difficult to come up with a number that might have gotten me to stay. The entire education system has to change.

And I truly believe that in the next 5-10 years, schools won't be able to remain open. I think it is extremely realistic to imagine parents will be getting robo calls on Sunday nights to learn their school won't be able to open that week because there isn't staff to open safely. I think it's realistic to think that high schools won't be able to offer ANY clubs, sports, AP classes, etc, and that academic classes will have 80-200 kids in them, lecture style. I suspect online learning will be the norm for people who can afford a sahp and internet and everyone else will be screwed. I think buildings are going to close, most of the education programs in universities will close (the ones that haven't already). I think students with special needs won't be getting any services. The system is crumbling and is far worse than any parent I know realizes.

This is actually a good thing. Give families the money and the market will educate. New Americans already do this with cram schools - Kumon, mathnasium. In MCPS this is where real education happens anyways. Let’s cut out the middleman. Product of Buffalo public schools and taught kids/used cram schools during pandemic But realize places like MCPS need to close. So much better than public school. RIP.

Public school in the US is kind of a disaster. I'd like to see some school choice in Montgomery County, but our political leaders would fight that tooth and nail.

At the very least, let students opt of of classes if they can demonstrate proficiency. If my kid can pass an Algebra test (because she's learned Algebra elsewhere), don't make her take it again with the crappy MCPS version. If my kid speaks Spanish and can pass the AP Spanish test, let her opt out of the language requirement.

This would require a huge overhaul of public education and I don't see the political will until things get as bad as what the PP is describing and the entire system just 'crumbles'.

Those are state requirements that MCPS cannot eliminate. One of my rising seniors is finishing AP Calc and already enrolled in a college math course, but the state requires her to take a fourth year of math in HS. It’s silly, but not the fault of MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who said the starting salary should be $70k, I would be fine with that.

But I will point out that starting salaries for new lawyers fresh out of law school at Legal Aid in Montgomery County is $66k. Seems like $65k would be good for a 10 month job for a teacher fresh out of college.

You are not seriously trying to suggest that nonprofit salaries are appropriate for teachers? Those jobs are for trust fund babies and people who didn't get the message they are for trust fund babies. We need a real supply of good teachers.

One might say that teaching is now for trust fund babies or those who marry well too. Why do you think the county cannot fill so many positions any more and those positions go unfilled too.

I was in one of those jobs. After child care, it didn't pay for me to work, especially given the hours and I needed to pay a babysitter to get my kids from day care as I never made it home before 7.

Exactly. There are not enough trust fund babies to fill teaching positions. It's not appropriate and not decent to pay under $70k for a job that requires a master's degree in the DMV.

My neighbor who teaches at MCPS makes 120k. I think that's not bad for someone who likely only works around 160 days a year, and with the Elrich tax increases it should be a lot more soon.

I really can't with someone who thinks $120k is too much for someone with a master's degree + additional continuing education and 25 years+ of experience. Who is responsible for children's futures. You sound really out of touch with professional salaries in this day and age.

+1
I just checked the pay scale. The top is $118K and that’s for a Masters + 60 credits after 25 years of experience. The PP above really thinks $120K is too much for a teacher with those credentials?

I think it's fine for someone who works for roughly 75% of the year and has degrees in subject areas like medieval history or fine arts.

Wouldn’t you want an experienced SS teacher to have a degree in medieval history? Wouldn’t you want an experienced art teacher to have a BFA or MFA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not in MCPS, but I'm a teacher who quit. I was extremely successful and every single year my students made about a year and a half worth of growth. I was definitely underpaid, results or not. But, I was so demoralized when I left that it's really difficult to come up with a number that might have gotten me to stay. The entire education system has to change.

And I truly believe that in the next 5-10 years, schools won't be able to remain open. I think it is extremely realistic to imagine parents will be getting robo calls on Sunday nights to learn their school won't be able to open that week because there isn't staff to open safely. I think it's realistic to think that high schools won't be able to offer ANY clubs, sports, AP classes, etc, and that academic classes will have 80-200 kids in them, lecture style. I suspect online learning will be the norm for people who can afford a sahp and internet and everyone else will be screwed. I think buildings are going to close, most of the education programs in universities will close (the ones that haven't already). I think students with special needs won't be getting any services. The system is crumbling and is far worse than any parent I know realizes.

This is actually a good thing. Give families the money and the market will educate. New Americans already do this with cram schools - Kumon, mathnasium. In MCPS this is where real education happens anyways. Let’s cut out the middleman. Product of Buffalo public schools and taught kids/used cram schools during pandemic But realize places like MCPS need to close. So much better than public school. RIP.

Public school in the US is kind of a disaster. I'd like to see some school choice in Montgomery County, but our political leaders would fight that tooth and nail.

At the very least, let students opt of of classes if they can demonstrate proficiency. If my kid can pass an Algebra test (because she's learned Algebra elsewhere), don't make her take it again with the crappy MCPS version. If my kid speaks Spanish and can pass the AP Spanish test, let her opt out of the language requirement.

This would require a huge overhaul of public education and I don't see the political will until things get as bad as what the PP is describing and the entire system just 'crumbles'.

Those are state requirements that MCPS cannot eliminate. One of my rising seniors is finishing AP Calc and already enrolled in a college math course, but the state requires her to take a fourth year of math in HS. It’s silly, but not the fault of MCPS.

I recognize that. I think we really do need an overhaul of the public education system in this country. It’s just not working for most kids.