Asian kindergarten students more likely to display advanced math, science skills, new study finds

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It is not genetic.

30 years ago, I worked for the research department of JHU’s CTY.

We identified gifted and talented kids by, in 7th grade, giving them the SAT (yes, they took the full SAT in 7th grade).

Kids scoring above 930 combined were qualified for our accelerated summer courses. Of the talented kids we identified:

1/3 of the kids were Asian; another 1/3rd self-identified as Jewish. The remaining 1/3rd were a mix of every remaining group.

That tells you the deciding factor is: culture.

That doesn't tell me what the deciding factor is.
Perhaps you left out some data from the research, but what I see here doesn't disprove the idea that Asians and Jews are more intelligent genetically.

It looks like you are assuming the difference is culture to conclude culture is the deciding factor.

I am the person to whom you responded.

I left out genetic, because that premise is unacceptable, and ultimately incongruent with our American values.

Even researching that possibility has lead humanity to a very ugly place, and it could do so again.

I advise you to “not go there.”

If you insist on pursuing your premise, you could take another look at the book “The Bell Curve,” and the research it is based upon. But again, consider the cataclysmic consequences of your premise.

Get every baby born in this country on the same level in regards to healthcare and nutrition for the mother in pregnancy, healthcare/nutrition for the under-5 child, lack of environmental pollutants (lead, air pollution, etc.) and then maybe we can run an proper test for genetic intelligence trends. Until then, many kids are already behind the 8-ball even before they are born.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It is not genetic.

30 years ago, I worked for the research department of JHU’s CTY.

We identified gifted and talented kids by, in 7th grade, giving them the SAT (yes, they took the full SAT in 7th grade).

Kids scoring above 930 combined were qualified for our accelerated summer courses. Of the talented kids we identified:

1/3 of the kids were Asian; another 1/3rd self-identified as Jewish. The remaining 1/3rd were a mix of every remaining group.

That tells you the deciding factor is: culture.

That doesn't tell me what the deciding factor is.
Perhaps you left out some data from the research, but what I see here doesn't disprove the idea that Asians and Jews are more intelligent genetically.

It looks like you are assuming the difference is culture to conclude culture is the deciding factor.

I am the person to whom you responded.

I left out genetic, because that premise is unacceptable, and ultimately incongruent with our American values.

Even researching that possibility has lead humanity to a very ugly place, and it could do so again.

I advise you to “not go there.”

If you insist on pursuing your premise, you could take another look at the book “The Bell Curve,” and the research it is based upon. But again, consider the cataclysmic consequences of your premise.

Get every baby born in this country on the same level in regards to healthcare and nutrition for the mother in pregnancy, healthcare/nutrition for the under-5 child, lack of environmental pollutants (lead, air pollution, etc.) and then maybe we can run an proper test for genetic intelligence trends. Until then, many kids are already behind the 8-ball even before they are born.

Many immigrants from China, Korea or India had it much worse in terms of environmental pollutants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone undertake such a study?

Because...science?

Go back to your cave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It is not genetic.

30 years ago, I worked for the research department of JHU’s CTY.

We identified gifted and talented kids by, in 7th grade, giving them the SAT (yes, they took the full SAT in 7th grade).

Kids scoring above 930 combined were qualified for our accelerated summer courses. Of the talented kids we identified:

1/3 of the kids were Asian; another 1/3rd self-identified as Jewish. The remaining 1/3rd were a mix of every remaining group.

That tells you the deciding factor is: culture.

That doesn't tell me what the deciding factor is.
Perhaps you left out some data from the research, but what I see here doesn't disprove the idea that Asians and Jews are more intelligent genetically.

It looks like you are assuming the difference is culture to conclude culture is the deciding factor.

I am the person to whom you responded.

I left out genetic, because that premise is unacceptable, and ultimately incongruent with our American values.

Even researching that possibility has lead humanity to a very ugly place, and it could do so again.

I advise you to “not go there.”

If you insist on pursuing your premise, you could take another look at the book “The Bell Curve,” and the research it is based upon. But again, consider the cataclysmic consequences of your premise.

Get every baby born in this country on the same level in regards to healthcare and nutrition for the mother in pregnancy, healthcare/nutrition for the under-5 child, lack of environmental pollutants (lead, air pollution, etc.) and then maybe we can run an proper test for genetic intelligence trends. Until then, many kids are already behind the 8-ball even before they are born.

Many immigrants from China, Korea or India had it much worse in terms of environmental pollutants.

Not if they were at least middle class for their country. Not as much as the poor or China, Korea, and India. And let's be real. Those people living in slums are never immigrating here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love the fake testimony of non-Asian posters here. "My kids did not get any enrichment at home" "My kid was able to make it to TJ after the new revised admission policy that took every B student" "My kid has an onlyfans site and got into Harvard business school" Ha ha!

Are any Asian parents so stupid to follow your example? We will continue to make sure our kids excel by investing in their education, sports, EC activities, jobs, internships etc.

We do not care if the achievement gap turns into an achievement chasm or achievement grand canyon. Let the non-Asians continue to lower standards and dumb down America further. We have learned to ignore these slackers and duffers.

Yeah, just ignore them! we will continue to do what we want to do!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone undertake such a study?

More evidence that the achievement gap starts in the home, not the school system.

Haven't you seen how Asian parents push their kids? No down time. They're having them count billboards while driving down a highway.

It doesn't mean the kids are smarter than other groups. It means the parents push them.

Check your racism. When non Asians ask their kids to count billboards it’s a cute Instagram hack to get their kids to stay occupied and learn! How wonderful! When Asians do it it’s “pushing” and “ tiger parenting.”

+1 this board is eye opening in terms of racism toward Asian Americans

It's racism to point out a fact, that Asians place a huge priority on educational achievement? Please tell me this is not fact, and that I'm a racist for stating this.

It’s classic gene-environment-culture covariation. On average (not ALL!), Asians who are in the United States have genetically higher intelligence. On average, they made it to the US on their smarts. Highly intelligent people enjoy learning. They find it easy to learn. Lo and behold, they spend more time on educational pursuits and their kids score higher on tests.

+1 You have to be really intelligent or be really well connected to be allowed to immigrate to the U.S. from Asian countries.

? wouldn't that apply to most people from other countries, not just from Asia?

LOL you don't get out much

? well, I'm an Asian American, from an immigrant family. DH is a white immigrant. We know lots of other white (and Asian) immigrants. So I think I "get out" a fair bit. Oh, and none of my family members were educated when they immigrated here.

People from other countries don't have the education requirements like Canada does. The difference with Asian countries is there are certain visas from those countries, which can't be named in posts on this forum, that require education. However, beyond that I don't think there are any education requirements.

I practised immigration law for 29 years dealing with immigration cases mostly from East Asia.

There are no 'higher' educational requirements for immigrants from East Asia and generally more people come from East Asia using the 'family based immigration' than ' employment based ' immigration and even the ' employment based' immigration is divided into levels of 'skilled worker' with some category requiring bachelor's degree depending on which level of 'skilled worker' program one is applying under and there is also 'unskilled worker' category requiring no college degree or even high school diploma.

Overall, people from East Asia are not subjected to higher/additional educational requirements than immigrants from other areas. Non-immigrant visas (temporary stays) are totally different category and not really applicable to this discussion.

For India though, looks like the priority date for an employment based immigrant visa for preference category 3 - skilled worker (bachelor's degree) is 2012. Isn't that like a 10-year wait?

Whereas categories 1 and 2, for foreign nationals of Extraordinary Ability, Outstanding Professors and Researchers, or Multinational Executives and Managers, or Advanced Degrees or Exceptional Ability in the Sciences, Arts or Business) looks pretty current as far as priority dates.

Doesn't that suggest that for immigrants from Asia. at least, it's much faster to get a green card if you possess exceptional credentials? Or am I reading this wrong? I know, it's not South EAST asia.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/visa-bulletin/2023/visa-bulletin-for-december-2022.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone undertake such a study?

More evidence that the achievement gap starts in the home, not the school system.

Haven't you seen how Asian parents push their kids? No down time. They're having them count billboards while driving down a highway.

It doesn't mean the kids are smarter than other groups. It means the parents push them.

Check your racism. When non Asians ask their kids to count billboards it’s a cute Instagram hack to get their kids to stay occupied and learn! How wonderful! When Asians do it it’s “pushing” and “ tiger parenting.”

+1 this board is eye opening in terms of racism toward Asian Americans

It's racism to point out a fact, that Asians place a huge priority on educational achievement? Please tell me this is not fact, and that I'm a racist for stating this.

It’s classic gene-environment-culture covariation. On average (not ALL!), Asians who are in the United States have genetically higher intelligence. On average, they made it to the US on their smarts. Highly intelligent people enjoy learning. They find it easy to learn. Lo and behold, they spend more time on educational pursuits and their kids score higher on tests.

+1 You have to be really intelligent or be really well connected to be allowed to immigrate to the U.S. from Asian countries.

? wouldn't that apply to most people from other countries, not just from Asia?

LOL you don't get out much

? well, I'm an Asian American, from an immigrant family. DH is a white immigrant. We know lots of other white (and Asian) immigrants. So I think I "get out" a fair bit. Oh, and none of my family members were educated when they immigrated here.

People from other countries don't have the education requirements like Canada does. The difference with Asian countries is there are certain visas from those countries, which can't be named in posts on this forum, that require education. However, beyond that I don't think there are any education requirements.

I practised immigration law for 29 years dealing with immigration cases mostly from East Asia.

There are no 'higher' educational requirements for immigrants from East Asia and generally more people come from East Asia using the 'family based immigration' than ' employment based ' immigration and even the ' employment based' immigration is divided into levels of 'skilled worker' with some category requiring bachelor's degree depending on which level of 'skilled worker' program one is applying under and there is also 'unskilled worker' category requiring no college degree or even high school diploma.

Overall, people from East Asia are not subjected to higher/additional educational requirements than immigrants from other areas. Non-immigrant visas (temporary stays) are totally different category and not really applicable to this discussion.

For India though, looks like the priority date for an employment based immigrant visa for preference category 3 - skilled worker (bachelor's degree) is 2012. Isn't that like a 10-year wait?

Whereas categories 1 and 2, for foreign nationals of Extraordinary Ability, Outstanding Professors and Researchers, or Multinational Executives and Managers, or Advanced Degrees or Exceptional Ability in the Sciences, Arts or Business) looks pretty current as far as priority dates.

Doesn't that suggest that for immigrants from Asia. at least, it's much faster to get a green card if you possess exceptional credentials? Or am I reading this wrong? I know, it's not South EAST asia.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/visa-bulletin/2023/visa-bulletin-for-december-2022.html

I meant faster for immigrants from India (not "Asia") to have exceptional credentials

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: The answer is universal pre-k, late school closing and year round school. Any gap in the school schedule is an opportunity for parents to widen the socio - economic and racial gap for their own kids by supplementing privately. There shouldn’t be that gap in the system:

I have experience with this as a parent and educator. The problem is, parents aren’t thrilled to have their kids at school 8-6. Even with mandatory attendance they tend to check them out earlier or not enroll at all.
My high FARMS school’s free afterschool always was underenrolled

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone undertake such a study?

More evidence that the achievement gap starts in the home, not the school system.

Haven't you seen how Asian parents push their kids? No down time. They're having them count billboards while driving down a highway.

It doesn't mean the kids are smarter than other groups. It means the parents push them.

Many here argue they're smarter. Let's be honest at least.

Many white immigrants were completely illiterate, including those on the Mayflower. The U.S. immigration system today, however, is stacked against illiterate immigrants. So I don't understand how people scratch their heads about immigrant exceptionalism, and by extension their children and communities.

Plenty illiterates walk in

[Anonymous]

i think it is their diet. They eat a variety of veggies that taste wonderful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i think it is their diet. They eat a variety of veggies that taste wonderful.

No they are smarter and try harder. Nature and nurture both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the fake testimony of non-Asian posters here. "My kids did not get any enrichment at home" "My kid was able to make it to TJ after the new revised admission policy that took every B student" "My kid has an onlyfans site and got into Harvard business school" Ha ha!

Are any Asian parents so stupid to follow your example? We will continue to make sure our kids excel by investing in their education, sports, EC activities, jobs, internships etc.

We do not care if the achievement gap turns into an achievement chasm or achievement grand canyon. Let the non-Asians continue to lower standards and dumb down America further. We have learned to ignore these slackers and duffers.

Yeah, just ignore them! we will continue to do what we want to do!

There has always been an achievement gap. Nothing they do will ever change that or have much of an impact. Not every outcome has to be the same because many people want and value different things. The best thing we could do is simply meet kids where they are and help them reach their potential and stop using this one size fits all approach.

[Anonymous]

I truly don’t understand the shock of this study. I am Indian (born here, though.) Asians generally hold education in highest importance. Since I was a kid, I HAD to get the best grades. My brother was told he HAD to be a doctor since he was like 6 (became a PhD, not a medical doc to my dad’s dismay lol…) I am most impressed when my Vietnamese nail ladies raising kids as single moms (with a family support system maybe) have their kids in Georgetown, Mason, etc studying engineering, law etc. despite their own hardships. So it’s not even about income. It’s about it being a very high priority from the get go.

This is also why it’s much harder to get into AAP at elementary schools that are heavily Asian dominated. We DO encourage our kids more on math, science, and school overall than other ethnic groups. We DO have higher test scores and grades, because we do teach our kids a lot from early on. White people and several other groups hold sports in a much highest regard than Asians do.

There is nothing offensive or shocking here. The stereotypes are kind of true. I live it. But on the other hand, because I was born here, I like my child to be well rounded and not ONLY education focused. He doesn’t need to do 9th grade math in 5th grade but Advanced math or AAP is great…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It is not genetic.

30 years ago, I worked for the research department of JHU’s CTY.

We identified gifted and talented kids by, in 7th grade, giving them the SAT (yes, they took the full SAT in 7th grade).

Kids scoring above 930 combined were qualified for our accelerated summer courses. Of the talented kids we identified:

1/3 of the kids were Asian; another 1/3rd self-identified as Jewish. The remaining 1/3rd were a mix of every remaining group.

That tells you the deciding factor is: culture.

That doesn't tell me what the deciding factor is.
Perhaps you left out some data from the research, but what I see here doesn't disprove the idea that Asians and Jews are more intelligent genetically.

It looks like you are assuming the difference is culture to conclude culture is the deciding factor.

I am the person to whom you responded.

I left out genetic, because that premise is unacceptable, and ultimately incongruent with our American values.

Even researching that possibility has lead humanity to a very ugly place, and it could do so again.

I advise you to “not go there.”

If you insist on pursuing your premise, you could take another look at the book “The Bell Curve,” and the research it is based upon. But again, consider the cataclysmic consequences of your premise.

Get every baby born in this country on the same level in regards to healthcare and nutrition for the mother in pregnancy, healthcare/nutrition for the under-5 child, lack of environmental pollutants (lead, air pollution, etc.) and then maybe we can run an proper test for genetic intelligence trends. Until then, many kids are already behind the 8-ball even before they are born.

Many immigrants from China, Korea or India had it much worse in terms of environmental pollutants.

+1 They are a very intelligent group of people with advanced civilizations for centuries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It is not genetic.

30 years ago, I worked for the research department of JHU’s CTY.

We identified gifted and talented kids by, in 7th grade, giving them the SAT (yes, they took the full SAT in 7th grade).

Kids scoring above 930 combined were qualified for our accelerated summer courses. Of the talented kids we identified:

1/3 of the kids were Asian; another 1/3rd self-identified as Jewish. The remaining 1/3rd were a mix of every remaining group.

That tells you the deciding factor is: culture.

That doesn't tell me what the deciding factor is.
Perhaps you left out some data from the research, but what I see here doesn't disprove the idea that Asians and Jews are more intelligent genetically.

It looks like you are assuming the difference is culture to conclude culture is the deciding factor.

I am the person to whom you responded.

I left out genetic, because that premise is unacceptable, and ultimately incongruent with our American values.

Even researching that possibility has lead humanity to a very ugly place, and it could do so again.

I advise you to “not go there.”

If you insist on pursuing your premise, you could take another look at the book “The Bell Curve,” and the research it is based upon. But again, consider the cataclysmic consequences of your premise.

Get every baby born in this country on the same level in regards to healthcare and nutrition for the mother in pregnancy, healthcare/nutrition for the under-5 child, lack of environmental pollutants (lead, air pollution, etc.) and then maybe we can run an proper test for genetic intelligence trends. Until then, many kids are already behind the 8-ball even before they are born.

Many immigrants from China, Korea or India had it much worse in terms of environmental pollutants.

+1 They are a very intelligent group of people with advanced civilizations for centuries.

Yes they fall exactly within the range that is normal for their species even!