Blair SMAC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many of you are over thinking. It’s just a high school program. They understand many middle schoolers are not exposed to computer science or math/science competitions. I also don’t think they care much about the essay. As long as the applicant doesn’t write hating math or science, I doubt the essay will make any difference.

In that case, I’ll ask again, what does make a difference? They literally have only MAP M and the most recent math and science grades, plus the essay. Given that many kids will have high MAP-m scores and As in geometry and science, what is differentiating kids if it’s not the essay?

I disagree with pp about essays and awards. I think, especially without recs, essays become more important to know a student's character and interests. Also, kids do have activities and potential for awards. ECs point to the whole student. Awards give a record of achievement to augment map and grades. Every ms kid can do science fair. Mine both had science fair awards when they applied. And, this is another place to show what the student can bring to the program. Mine had performing arts accolades. STEM programs are interested in "out of the box" thinkers and like kids with arts activities/awards.

Also, if you have a girl, I highly recommend Technica. It's a huge all girl (or female identifying) hackathon hosted by umd. I think it just happened this year and was partly online. But, hopefully will be back next fall in person. It's a giant comp sci slumber party with tons of awards and swag (and a chocolate fountain). And it's a very supportive, cooperative environment. My kid went by herself in 7th grade and won a bunch of hardware for a website she made. She went with a friend the next year and had a blast. The 7th grade win definitely went on her magnet app!

We have never been offered a science fair in MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alg 2 is offered in every MoCo HS for 8th graders who qualify.

But only a few wealthy ES offer AIM in 6th grade. TPMS for example, won't allow anyone who hasn't taken AIM to take Algebra in 6th grade. Only kids who have taken Algebra in 6th grade are able to take Algebra 2 in 8th.

Yes the feeder schools were really strict on this. I'm sure a few others as well. Many kids were shut out of that track because of it. Would have been helpful to mine during Functions -- that was a beast.

Then you should have gone to a non-wealthy school. Ours allows it.

Huh?
Wealthy W ESs don't feed into TPMS.
Piney Branch and Pine Crest (HGC) weren't wealthy (at least when my kids went)! Both very rigid not letting any of the kids (including kids from tpes's magnet back in the day) advance beyond compacted. It was the whole 2.0 thing.

That's so weird because DC is at TPMS along with several other Potomac kids whose ES also offered AIM in 5th grade so they were able to take in Algebra in 6th.

Some schools allow kids to skip aim and others require it. The issue is most es don’t have aim.

The only MS I know of that routinely allows kids to skip AIM is Frost. Also, the only ES that hosts an AIM class in 5th was Cold Spring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are also kids who are very good at math (but perhaps not the top) but maybe they are better at Science. Same goes for Computer Science. And Blair’s English is still
higher than every other program too, so they do look at the whole picture. Of course they try to take most of the TOP math kids, but there are at least 2 levels of 9th grade magnet math. And a few will be in math with 10th graders probably, because Those are truly the top math kids.

Ok, so my kids best subject is computer science. How does the selection committee get to taste his abilities on this when they only have MAP-M and grades in math and science to go on?

DP. Now you understand why MCPS is broken.

Cogat (the race-neutral, nationally-administered) exam is gone.

MAP-M primarily indicates what grade level of math the child is doing (and the test score most likely influenced by after-hours tutoring).

Is an A at TPMS the same as an A at Forest Oak?

The only other selection factor is what is written in the application. I would list whatever computer science the child does and have your kid write what they like about CS.

The PP is mostly uninformed. Most of the kids who were getting in had prepped for the CogAT. Yes, that's a thing and it made the scores unreliable since non-gifted who had spent months practicing presented as gifted. There are a lot of bitter people who are pushing bad information. The real problem isn't selection but the scarcity of these programs. THe one thing the MS lottery demonstrated is that far more kids are capable of doing the work than had been previously believed.

DP. This exactly. And, if you want to know, no, mine were not rejected, though 1 did choose Wheaton (gasp).

My kid was brand new to MCPS in fifth grade and had no idea about the Cogat. He ended up scoring 99th percentile in each of the three categories and got a space at TPMS, so “ALL” the kids who got in definitely didn’t prep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many of you are over thinking. It’s just a high school program. They understand many middle schoolers are not exposed to computer science or math/science competitions. I also don’t think they care much about the essay. As long as the applicant doesn’t write hating math or science, I doubt the essay will make any difference.

In that case, I’ll ask again, what does make a difference? They literally have only MAP M and the most recent math and science grades, plus the essay. Given that many kids will have high MAP-m scores and As in geometry and science, what is differentiating kids if it’s not the essay?

I disagree with pp about essays and awards. I think, especially without recs, essays become more important to know a student's character and interests. Also, kids do have activities and potential for awards. ECs point to the whole student. Awards give a record of achievement to augment map and grades. Every ms kid can do science fair. Mine both had science fair awards when they applied. And, this is another place to show what the student can bring to the program. Mine had performing arts accolades. STEM programs are interested in "out of the box" thinkers and like kids with arts activities/awards.

Also, if you have a girl, I highly recommend Technica. It's a huge all girl (or female identifying) hackathon hosted by umd. I think it just happened this year and was partly online. But, hopefully will be back next fall in person. It's a giant comp sci slumber party with tons of awards and swag (and a chocolate fountain). And it's a very supportive, cooperative environment. My kid went by herself in 7th grade and won a bunch of hardware for a website she made. She went with a friend the next year and had a blast. The 7th grade win definitely went on her magnet app!

We have never been offered a science fair in MS.

Yep, same here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's very hard to prep for the Cogat and the big secret is those expensive classes really do not really help kids get in anywhere. Very few kids from those prep schools actually get in and they would have gotten in anyway.

The only thing I think they offer is giving kids familiarity with the types of questions and format and you can do that for your child with a $10 book on Amazon or by borrowing a book which is available at the public library for free. There are also plenty of YouTube videos you can find online.

You are foolish if you think these actually make a difference.

Actually it isn't hard to prep for it at all. It's not much different than prepping for the SATs. You can boost your score by 20% simply by being familiar with the test format and question types. These are well known facts.

I call B.S.! I think every HS parent would be thrilled if their kids could improve 20% on their SAT's (let alone CogAT's, which don't count for college admission). Maybe if they're at the bottom of the scale, I could see that happening but there is NO WAY that's true above the 50th percentile.

Go ahead - post the link with you proof. Come on. I want to see it.

DP
You can call BS, but patterns section is very easy to coach. My kid always struggled with patterns (adhd and would just lose focus), even though I could see that she was a great problem solver. So, I googled a few of the types of patterns, and she made it a game. It became easy peasy, and she vaulted to one of the top scorers on the raven (this was when ms used a raven component). Cogat also has patterns, and she did well using not only the types of patterning but also the whole game mindset. Math can be helped by SAT strategies, and analogies in verbal are some of the easiest to coach (used to be in SAT). As others said, there is the familiarity issue as well. Lots of coaching opportunities on cogat. I'm sure kids who took a course in it or lots of tutoring would get a leg up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alg 2 is offered in every MoCo HS for 8th graders who qualify.

But only a few wealthy ES offer AIM in 6th grade. TPMS for example, won't allow anyone who hasn't taken AIM to take Algebra in 6th grade. Only kids who have taken Algebra in 6th grade are able to take Algebra 2 in 8th.

Yes the feeder schools were really strict on this. I'm sure a few others as well. Many kids were shut out of that track because of it. Would have been helpful to mine during Functions -- that was a beast.

Then you should have gone to a non-wealthy school. Ours allows it.

Huh?
Wealthy W ESs don't feed into TPMS.
Piney Branch and Pine Crest (HGC) weren't wealthy (at least when my kids went)! Both very rigid not letting any of the kids (including kids from tpes's magnet back in the day) advance beyond compacted. It was the whole 2.0 thing.

That's so weird because DC is at TPMS along with several other Potomac kids whose ES also offered AIM in 5th grade so they were able to take in Algebra in 6th.

Your kid tested into the magnet. Potomac ECs are not feeders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's very hard to prep for the Cogat and the big secret is those expensive classes really do not really help kids get in anywhere. Very few kids from those prep schools actually get in and they would have gotten in anyway.

The only thing I think they offer is giving kids familiarity with the types of questions and format and you can do that for your child with a $10 book on Amazon or by borrowing a book which is available at the public library for free. There are also plenty of YouTube videos you can find online.

You are foolish if you think these actually make a difference.

Actually it isn't hard to prep for it at all. It's not much different than prepping for the SATs. You can boost your score by 20% simply by being familiar with the test format and question types. These are well known facts.

I call B.S.! I think every HS parent would be thrilled if their kids could improve 20% on their SAT's (let alone CogAT's, which don't count for college admission). Maybe if they're at the bottom of the scale, I could see that happening but there is NO WAY that's true above the 50th percentile.

Go ahead - post the link with you proof. Come on. I want to see it.

DP
You can call BS, but patterns section is very easy to coach. My kid always struggled with patterns (adhd and would just lose focus), even though I could see that she was a great problem solver. So, I googled a few of the types of patterns, and she made it a game. It became easy peasy, and she vaulted to one of the top scorers on the raven (this was when ms used a raven component). Cogat also has patterns, and she did well using not only the types of patterning but also the whole game mindset. Math can be helped by SAT strategies, and analogies in verbal are some of the easiest to coach (used to be in SAT). As others said, there is the familiarity issue as well. Lots of coaching opportunities on cogat. I'm sure kids who took a course in it or lots of tutoring would get a leg up.

Ya you can't make radical changes in a few weeks but simply understanding the format, question types and time management can easily improve your score by 10%-25%.

[Anonymous]

Your child has ADHD and problems focusing. Your coaching is bringing him up so he can perform at his natural ability. If he did not have that natural ability your child would have never been able to get get it. There are tons of studies that show you can't "raise" IQ by prepping but you can make the testing go smoother. Many kids with ADHD test beneath their real ability and you can help them compensate with things like extra time or coaching on directions. But it's not going to make a kid with an average IQ in the highly gifted range no matter how much you prep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are also kids who are very good at math (but perhaps not the top) but maybe they are better at Science. Same goes for Computer Science. And Blair’s English is still
higher than every other program too, so they do look at the whole picture. Of course they try to take most of the TOP math kids, but there are at least 2 levels of 9th grade magnet math. And a few will be in math with 10th graders probably, because Those are truly the top math kids.

Ok, so my kids best subject is computer science. How does the selection committee get to taste his abilities on this when they only have MAP-M and grades in math and science to go on?

DP. Now you understand why MCPS is broken.

Cogat (the race-neutral, nationally-administered) exam is gone.

MAP-M primarily indicates what grade level of math the child is doing (and the test score most likely influenced by after-hours tutoring).

Is an A at TPMS the same as an A at Forest Oak?

The only other selection factor is what is written in the application. I would list whatever computer science the child does and have your kid write what they like about CS.

The PP is mostly uninformed. Most of the kids who were getting in had prepped for the CogAT. Yes, that's a thing and it made the scores unreliable since non-gifted who had spent months practicing presented as gifted. There are a lot of bitter people who are pushing bad information. The real problem isn't selection but the scarcity of these programs. THe one thing the MS lottery demonstrated is that far more kids are capable of doing the work than had been previously believed.

DP. This exactly. And, if you want to know, no, mine were not rejected, though 1 did choose Wheaton (gasp).

My kid was brand new to MCPS in fifth grade and had no idea about the Cogat. He ended up scoring 99th percentile in each of the three categories and got a space at TPMS, so “ALL” the kids who got in definitely didn’t prep.

99th is a fairly broad category for cogat. Also, I don’t think anyone has suggested that all kids prepped (mine didn't take prep classes and got in), but extreme prepping (enrichment classes throughout + specified magnet test classes for the two months before a test through A++ or Dr. Li or the likes) has been a thing. Then those parents get upset when testing isn't the end all be all, and the they try to claim the great testing stats carry more "merit" than anything else or indicate some true intelligence or whatnot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your child has ADHD and problems focusing. Your coaching is bringing him up so he can perform at his natural ability. If he did not have that natural ability your child would have never been able to get get it. There are tons of studies that show you can't "raise" IQ by prepping but you can make the testing go smoother. Many kids with ADHD test beneath their real ability and you can help them compensate with things like extra time or coaching on directions. But it's not going to make a kid with an average IQ in the highly gifted range no matter how much you prep.

I think anyone can benefit from some of the coaching. Maybe not the focus issues because that is adhd related, but I've seen SAT techniques benefit a variety of kids, and there are several cogat sections that function the same as current or older SAT or even GRE sections (GRE is equally coachable). And, I think if every kid saw the patterns as a game with a general set of rules, they would do better, honestly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many of you are over thinking. It’s just a high school program. They understand many middle schoolers are not exposed to computer science or math/science competitions. I also don’t think they care much about the essay. As long as the applicant doesn’t write hating math or science, I doubt the essay will make any difference.

In that case, I’ll ask again, what does make a difference? They literally have only MAP M and the most recent math and science grades, plus the essay. Given that many kids will have high MAP-m scores and As in geometry and science, what is differentiating kids if it’s not the essay?

I disagree with pp about essays and awards. I think, especially without recs, essays become more important to know a student's character and interests. Also, kids do have activities and potential for awards. ECs point to the whole student. Awards give a record of achievement to augment map and grades. Every ms kid can do science fair. Mine both had science fair awards when they applied. And, this is another place to show what the student can bring to the program. Mine had performing arts accolades. STEM programs are interested in "out of the box" thinkers and like kids with arts activities/awards.

Also, if you have a girl, I highly recommend Technica. It's a huge all girl (or female identifying) hackathon hosted by umd. I think it just happened this year and was partly online. But, hopefully will be back next fall in person. It's a giant comp sci slumber party with tons of awards and swag (and a chocolate fountain). And it's a very supportive, cooperative environment. My kid went by herself in 7th grade and won a bunch of hardware for a website she made. She went with a friend the next year and had a blast. The 7th grade win definitely went on her magnet app!

We have never been offered a science fair in MS.

You don't need to be offered. You can sign up through Science Montgomery. It's county wide. Any MoCo student can enter.

[Anonymous]

Of course, it's helpful if the school's science class has the kids do a project as part of the curriculum....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many of you are over thinking. It’s just a high school program. They understand many middle schoolers are not exposed to computer science or math/science competitions. I also don’t think they care much about the essay. As long as the applicant doesn’t write hating math or science, I doubt the essay will make any difference.

In that case, I’ll ask again, what does make a difference? They literally have only MAP M and the most recent math and science grades, plus the essay. Given that many kids will have high MAP-m scores and As in geometry and science, what is differentiating kids if it’s not the essay?

I disagree with pp about essays and awards. I think, especially without recs, essays become more important to know a student's character and interests. Also, kids do have activities and potential for awards. ECs point to the whole student. Awards give a record of achievement to augment map and grades. Every ms kid can do science fair. Mine both had science fair awards when they applied. And, this is another place to show what the student can bring to the program. Mine had performing arts accolades. STEM programs are interested in "out of the box" thinkers and like kids with arts activities/awards.

Also, if you have a girl, I highly recommend Technica. It's a huge all girl (or female identifying) hackathon hosted by umd. I think it just happened this year and was partly online. But, hopefully will be back next fall in person. It's a giant comp sci slumber party with tons of awards and swag (and a chocolate fountain). And it's a very supportive, cooperative environment. My kid went by herself in 7th grade and won a bunch of hardware for a website she made. She went with a friend the next year and had a blast. The 7th grade win definitely went on her magnet app!

We have never been offered a science fair in MS.

You don't need to be offered. You can sign up through Science Montgomery. It's county wide. Any MoCo student can enter.

True you can do that but sadly you can't sign up for AIM unless you're at one of the rich elementaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are also kids who are very good at math (but perhaps not the top) but maybe they are better at Science. Same goes for Computer Science. And Blair’s English is still
higher than every other program too, so they do look at the whole picture. Of course they try to take most of the TOP math kids, but there are at least 2 levels of 9th grade magnet math. And a few will be in math with 10th graders probably, because Those are truly the top math kids.

Ok, so my kids best subject is computer science. How does the selection committee get to taste his abilities on this when they only have MAP-M and grades in math and science to go on?

DP. Now you understand why MCPS is broken.

Cogat (the race-neutral, nationally-administered) exam is gone.

MAP-M primarily indicates what grade level of math the child is doing (and the test score most likely influenced by after-hours tutoring).

Is an A at TPMS the same as an A at Forest Oak?

The only other selection factor is what is written in the application. I would list whatever computer science the child does and have your kid write what they like about CS.

The PP is mostly uninformed. Most of the kids who were getting in had prepped for the CogAT. Yes, that's a thing and it made the scores unreliable since non-gifted who had spent months practicing presented as gifted. There are a lot of bitter people who are pushing bad information. The real problem isn't selection but the scarcity of these programs. THe one thing the MS lottery demonstrated is that far more kids are capable of doing the work than had been previously believed.

DP. This exactly. And, if you want to know, no, mine were not rejected, though 1 did choose Wheaton (gasp).

My kid was brand new to MCPS in fifth grade and had no idea about the Cogat. He ended up scoring 99th percentile in each of the three categories and got a space at TPMS, so “ALL” the kids who got in definitely didn’t prep.

99th is a fairly broad category for cogat. Also, I don’t think anyone has suggested that all kids prepped (mine didn't take prep classes and got in), but extreme prepping (enrichment classes throughout + specified magnet test classes for the two months before a test through A++ or Dr. Li or the likes) has been a thing. Then those parents get upset when testing isn't the end all be all, and the they try to claim the great testing stats carry more "merit" than anything else or indicate some true intelligence or whatnot.

How is 99th percentile in Cogat fairly broad??? 99th is 99th - it means top one percent and can not be broader than that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many of you are over thinking. It’s just a high school program. They understand many middle schoolers are not exposed to computer science or math/science competitions. I also don’t think they care much about the essay. As long as the applicant doesn’t write hating math or science, I doubt the essay will make any difference.

In that case, I’ll ask again, what does make a difference? They literally have only MAP M and the most recent math and science grades, plus the essay. Given that many kids will have high MAP-m scores and As in geometry and science, what is differentiating kids if it’s not the essay?

I disagree with pp about essays and awards. I think, especially without recs, essays become more important to know a student's character and interests. Also, kids do have activities and potential for awards. ECs point to the whole student. Awards give a record of achievement to augment map and grades. Every ms kid can do science fair. Mine both had science fair awards when they applied. And, this is another place to show what the student can bring to the program. Mine had performing arts accolades. STEM programs are interested in "out of the box" thinkers and like kids with arts activities/awards.

Also, if you have a girl, I highly recommend Technica. It's a huge all girl (or female identifying) hackathon hosted by umd. I think it just happened this year and was partly online. But, hopefully will be back next fall in person. It's a giant comp sci slumber party with tons of awards and swag (and a chocolate fountain). And it's a very supportive, cooperative environment. My kid went by herself in 7th grade and won a bunch of hardware for a website she made. She went with a friend the next year and had a blast. The 7th grade win definitely went on her magnet app!

We have never been offered a science fair in MS.

Yep, same here.

Same for us. No Science Fair at our nonW middle school.