Middle school magnet lottery cutoffs finally revealed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming Einstein-level talent is buried in every child and just needs to be nurtured. If that was true, every child in the same class would all do the same level of work, which we all know is not true. I have a different interpretation for what you saw. The kids you saw paying attention were struggling, whereas the ones playing video games were bored silly because they knew the material already. You lose the higher-end kids who can't stand sitting listening to a teacher going over boring material at a slower pace. The higher-end's disengage and seek enrichment elsewhere. That's exactly what my kid did, so I had to supplement with tutoring. Not the type of tutoring MCPS is offering, mind you, but college-level advanced topic tutoring. I just tell my kid that school is a game you have to play by their rules. Just sit and not your head, but expect to work when you come home. It's fine since it's cheaper than private school and my kid can choose any topic under the sun. I think this is why MCPS is failing. All the AEI people who understood this basic fact left, and all the wack jobs are left in the positions now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes I have to wonder why did this come out now? Is this the PR firm diverting and distracting the parents?

MCCPTA G&T working group did a public records request. Response was delayed. As soon as info hit the listserve, someone leaked it here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Middle school in general, and magnet middle school particularly, are hadly nurturing environments. More sink or swim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Oh my goodness. Why were you looking at your magnet middle school age child’s zooms? Surely he did not need your hand-holding to log on. Also, not all black and brown kids are low income and I don’t know how on Earth you would have been able to tell who was in an apartment and what that even signified! Finally, why do you assume a student in a high farms school has less teacher attention? Title one schools have smaller class sizes and more funding than non title one schools, and extra paraeducators. That literally means more teacher attention. And finally, while goofing off is obviously not appropriate or ideal, I have a gifted kid with adhd who might have looked to you like he was goofing off, but who absolutely learned his lessons in full while bouncing about the room. You have no idea about any of these kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Sadly, have to agree.

- Signed Parent of UMC White kid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Well you got yours, under the old pre-lottery system. You might feel differently if your kids hadn’t had their opportunity in the magnets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Well you got yours, under the old pre-lottery system. You might feel differently if your kids hadn’t had their opportunity in the magnets.

The flip side is that, since I have a pre-2018 kid and a post-2018 kid, I am old enough to remember the last time everyone screamed that the sky was falling and the magnets were effectively dead. Turns out the post-2018 kids did perfectly well, the magnets were not dead, and now all y'all are clamoring for a return to a system that you claimed was terrible just four years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Oh my goodness. Why were you looking at your magnet middle school age child’s zooms? Surely he did not need your hand-holding to log on. Also, not all black and brown kids are low income and I don’t know how on Earth you would have been able to tell who was in an apartment and what that even signified! Finally, why do you assume a student in a high farms school has less teacher attention? Title one schools have smaller class sizes and more funding than non title one schools, and extra paraeducators. That literally means more teacher attention. And finally, while goofing off is obviously not appropriate or ideal, I have a gifted kid with adhd who might have looked to you like he was goofing off, but who absolutely learned his lessons in full while bouncing about the room. You have no idea about any of these kids.

Racist much?
Many of the magnet parents we met are unpleasant and their kids say things that are similar to what the first PP posted according to what DC has told me. Sounds like your influence is rubbing off on your child. The broad stereotyping is really gross and it really says a lot about you that you were on your child's Zooms so often that you had time to judge these kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Responding to MPIAs from MCCPTA's Gifted Education Committee, MCPS finally revealed middle school magnet lottery cutoffs.

(1) MCPS divides all elementary schools into 5 groups based on FARMS:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/120BRtShXf9_kQcNvKSxHKG4nJhnyTjL7/view?fbclid=IwAR1hrS0Ar1xsi_W8Ew3ow3Zz6aE84gkeAVZTu08rz_33TCvXCfTSRLDtX_w

low
low moderate
moderate
moderate high
high

(2) MCPS uses different cutoffs for these 5 groups:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e0Szg2jJ8F1rL2BZSqCV1fb_R1gLwaRl/view?fbclid=IwAR36sMGZsbuKGYKnvEj9f5B2o0ioaZeiaZ7YQJLJVxPxP_m-Jr9-tUG5wq8

The cutoffs are national normed percentile (= 85% locally normed)

Math
low 93%
low moderate 92%
moderate 84%
moderate high 65%
high 60%

Humanites
low 92%
low moderate 92%
moderate 88%
moderate high 76%
high 70%


This means in a low-FARMS school, one needs 93%/92% to enter lottery.
In a high-FARMS school, one needs 60%/70% to enter lottery.

You can score 60% in math and 70% in reading to go to Takoma Park and Eastern magnets.

What percentage of the kids at a high-farms school have 70%+?

At least 60-70% of the students in high farms would have the scores to make the cut off

No. It's saying kids who attend high farms schools and score at least 70%ile on the test are in-pool.

It's not the same as scoring 99%ile, but at a lot of high farms schools the barriers to learning and achievement are greater, so what MCPS is saying is that a kid who scores 70%ile at a high farms schools, at age 8, demonstrates the same potential academically as a kid who scores a 95%ile at a W feeder. Which having been at both, I do think sounds fair.

If you hate this I can see that. But it's equitable. Equitable measures being introduced may mean that certain people's odds change. I don't take issues with this, but I do think a blind lottery post-cutoff is a mistake. It is meaningful to have teachers weigh in on things, and the outcomes for equity can be increased without resorting to straight up lottery. In the end though, what MCPS needs is increased access to enrichment for way more children, and perhaps they should consider re-adding a selective process for these more selective cohorts of highly capable kids (and yes, my kid was admitted to two of those in the past, so I can speak to the quality - they were/are excellent).

+2 I'll add that folks on this very site were claiming within recent memory that a 99th percentile kid couldn't possibly be expected to learn alongside a 95th percentile kid.

While I do think that 60th percentile is too low, I'd note that the schools in that category are among the absolute poorest in the district. It is not, as previously assumed, every single Title I school. It's the schools where the overwhelming majority of kids are living in poverty and/or have experienced trauma. Scoring a 70th percentile under those circumstances may well demonstrate more potential than a kid scoring in the 93rd percentile with every advantage possible.

+3

I teach in one of these MS magnets. We also see more resilience and innovation in the students coming from higher FARMS schools.

If you actually teach at one of these MS magnets you would also know that a surprising number of these students left the program.

Ha! I do actually teach in one of the big 4 MS magnets. The big secret we don’t tell incoming 6th grade parents is that we lose a few students every year for all sorts of reasons. This has been the case for over a decade. Students don’t want the long commute and separation from neighborhood friends. They think there’s too much homework, which interferes with sports, music, or other after school activities. Students are not counseled out, but we have students who depart for emotional health reasons. In all three of those circumstances, more of those leaving are well-off White and Asian than FARMS students of color.

Specifically, I found none of the departures surprising. Not in the number of students who left, nor in whether they were from traditional ethnic groups or underserved ones.

Your claims are really problematic because they involve racial claims and because they are untrue. I'm sure it impacts how you treat certain students. I hope your administration is reading this. They know you post on this forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Well you got yours, under the old pre-lottery system. You might feel differently if your kids hadn’t had their opportunity in the magnets.

The flip side is that, since I have a pre-2018 kid and a post-2018 kid, I am old enough to remember the last time everyone screamed that the sky was falling and the magnets were effectively dead. Turns out the post-2018 kids did perfectly well, the magnets were not dead, and now all y'all are clamoring for a return to a system that you claimed was terrible just four years ago.

Well if you agree that the magnets are not dead, you could perhaps understand why those of us are sour grapes that our gifted kids cannot access them with even the highest of scores because of the lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Well you got yours, under the old pre-lottery system. You might feel differently if your kids hadn’t had their opportunity in the magnets.

The flip side is that, since I have a pre-2018 kid and a post-2018 kid, I am old enough to remember the last time everyone screamed that the sky was falling and the magnets were effectively dead. Turns out the post-2018 kids did perfectly well, the magnets were not dead, and now all y'all are clamoring for a return to a system that you claimed was terrible just four years ago.

Well if you agree that the magnets are not dead, you could perhaps understand why those of us are sour grapes that our gifted kids cannot access them with even the highest of scores because of the lottery.

Ultimately, people are talking past each other on this issue. MCPS administration believes these differential cutoffs are necessary to do “equity.” Merit is at best irrelevant, and at worst a pernicious, racist concept that white people developed to hoard resources.

The people who are saying that children who score about the 60th percentile in high FARMS school are showing an equal level of talent as those with much higher scores in low FARMS schools are not making an empirical statement that is susceptible to being proven either true or false. It’s an article of faith, and questioning that faith makes you a racist. It could be proven false to a metaphysical certainty, and their policies of inclusion would not change a whit.

There is a real cultural struggle between those who believe that merit matters, and those who believe that resources need to be distributed proportionally among racial groups and any other approach is systemically racist. The DEI crowd is going to win, because people with other views generally remain silent for fear of being called racist and cast into the outer darkness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Tell me you have a daughter without telling me you have a daughter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Your very thoughtful response (which I agree with) does not fit into the narrative that is being pushed in this thread.

Some posters to this thread (or maybe it is just one poster) are against any measures that increase access to magnet programs in an equitable way. 'Equity' is a bad word. Their belief is that a child's intelligence and ability to do more challenging work is solely measured through a test score--a test that some of them may have prepped their kids for. They will never acknowledge this however.

I saw the same 'panic' when MCPS decided to test all 3rd graders for entrance to an enrichment program instead of relying on a request from parents. It's disgusting, really, and I hope MCPS continues to move forward with measures that can expand the number of children who can participate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Tell me you have a daughter without telling me you have a daughter.

PP here and I have both. However, if my son had half-a**ed his way through the magnet program, you should as heck would not find me on DCUM excusing his behavior by claiming he was just too bored by being in classes with kids that didn't share his advantages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Well you got yours, under the old pre-lottery system. You might feel differently if your kids hadn’t had their opportunity in the magnets.

The flip side is that, since I have a pre-2018 kid and a post-2018 kid, I am old enough to remember the last time everyone screamed that the sky was falling and the magnets were effectively dead. Turns out the post-2018 kids did perfectly well, the magnets were not dead, and now all y'all are clamoring for a return to a system that you claimed was terrible just four years ago.

Exactly, the pre lottery system seems like the best to me. The changes like universal screening and local norms seemed to produce a very strong cohort.