Middle school magnet lottery cutoffs finally revealed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Well you got yours, under the old pre-lottery system. You might feel differently if your kids hadn’t had their opportunity in the magnets.

The flip side is that, since I have a pre-2018 kid and a post-2018 kid, I am old enough to remember the last time everyone screamed that the sky was falling and the magnets were effectively dead. Turns out the post-2018 kids did perfectly well, the magnets were not dead, and now all y'all are clamoring for a return to a system that you claimed was terrible just four years ago.

Well if you agree that the magnets are not dead, you could perhaps understand why those of us are sour grapes that our gifted kids cannot access them with even the highest of scores because of the lottery.

Ultimately, people are talking past each other on this issue. MCPS administration believes these differential cutoffs are necessary to do “equity.” Merit is at best irrelevant, and at worst a pernicious, racist concept that white people developed to hoard resources.

The people who are saying that children who score about the 60th percentile in high FARMS school are showing an equal level of talent as those with much higher scores in low FARMS schools are not making an empirical statement that is susceptible to being proven either true or false. It’s an article of faith, and questioning that faith makes you a racist. It could be proven false to a metaphysical certainty, and their policies of inclusion would not change a whit.

There is a real cultural struggle between those who believe that merit matters, and those who believe that resources need to be distributed proportionally among racial groups and any other approach is systemically racist. The DEI crowd is going to win, because people with other views generally remain silent for fear of being called racist and cast into the outer darkness.

Yes except the Supreme Court of the United States has determined that you can not use race as a factor to determine access to these types of educational programs.

That's why selection has always been race blind. The only information they have to make selection are a student ID and things like grades and test scores.

Also FARMS status, geographic location, gender, IEP status. There was a lot in MCPS's secret sauce. Still likely is.

Yes, their NOT so secret sauce was documented on their website in detail. It uses base school not geographic location to establish local norms.

I can tell you aren't much of a deep thinker if you think MCPS provided "detailed" documentation regarding the selection process.

Qyite the opposite, since I'm able to read the information and understand it as opposed to the buffoons who post here complaining that its secret despite being as clear as a summer's day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Your very thoughtful response (which I agree with) does not fit into the narrative that is being pushed in this thread.

Some posters to this thread (or maybe it is just one poster) are against any measures that increase access to magnet programs in an equitable way. 'Equity' is a bad word. Their belief is that a child's intelligence and ability to do more challenging work is solely measured through a test score--a test that some of them may have prepped their kids for. They will never acknowledge this however.

I saw the same 'panic' when MCPS decided to test all 3rd graders for entrance to an enrichment program instead of relying on a request from parents. It's disgusting, really, and I hope MCPS continues to move forward with measures that can expand the number of children who can participate.

Agree and personally I think it's because they resent not having these opportunities simply handed to them like in the past where a pushy parent could easily game admissions for their darling child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Your very thoughtful response (which I agree with) does not fit into the narrative that is being pushed in this thread.

Some posters to this thread (or maybe it is just one poster) are against any measures that increase access to magnet programs in an equitable way. 'Equity' is a bad word. Their belief is that a child's intelligence and ability to do more challenging work is solely measured through a test score--a test that some of them may have prepped their kids for. They will never acknowledge this however.

I saw the same 'panic' when MCPS decided to test all 3rd graders for entrance to an enrichment program instead of relying on a request from parents. It's disgusting, really, and I hope MCPS continues to move forward with measures that can expand the number of children who can participate.

As some of us have stated many times, ability to do academic work is not solely based on intelligence. It is also based on knowledge and skills developed over the years. I will say it again... A child who is scoring 60% on an achievement test may have innate talents, but they are NOT prepared to do academic work along side those scoring at 99%. Now, I am not saying that we shouldn't nurture their talents, but that nurturing cannot come at the expense of those who are already prepared to go much further in their academic work. Hope spelling it out again will help you understand that none of us are saying what you said above.

This is still missing the point. You can't say they aren't prepared or would not rise quickly to the challenge. Perhaps the 99% should just homeschool so they don't have to mix with the other crowd...

I feel like this response is an example of argumentation between a 99%er and a 60% percenter... Doesn't work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Your very thoughtful response (which I agree with) does not fit into the narrative that is being pushed in this thread.

Some posters to this thread (or maybe it is just one poster) are against any measures that increase access to magnet programs in an equitable way. 'Equity' is a bad word. Their belief is that a child's intelligence and ability to do more challenging work is solely measured through a test score--a test that some of them may have prepped their kids for. They will never acknowledge this however.

I saw the same 'panic' when MCPS decided to test all 3rd graders for entrance to an enrichment program instead of relying on a request from parents. It's disgusting, really, and I hope MCPS continues to move forward with measures that can expand the number of children who can participate.

Agree and personally I think it's because they resent not having these opportunities simply handed to them like in the past where a pushy parent could easily game admissions for their darling child.

Do you think it’s wrong that a public school system hand 11 year old children appropriate opportunities? Do you think “pushy parents” want to expend time and energy to make sure their children are academically challenged? If the school system didn’t ration out this resource and keep twisting around the process and criteria every two years, this would be a non-issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Your very thoughtful response (which I agree with) does not fit into the narrative that is being pushed in this thread.

Some posters to this thread (or maybe it is just one poster) are against any measures that increase access to magnet programs in an equitable way. 'Equity' is a bad word. Their belief is that a child's intelligence and ability to do more challenging work is solely measured through a test score--a test that some of them may have prepped their kids for. They will never acknowledge this however.

I saw the same 'panic' when MCPS decided to test all 3rd graders for entrance to an enrichment program instead of relying on a request from parents. It's disgusting, really, and I hope MCPS continues to move forward with measures that can expand the number of children who can participate.

Agree and personally I think it's because they resent not having these opportunities simply handed to them like in the past where a pushy parent could easily game admissions for their darling child.

Do you think it’s wrong that a public school system hand 11 year old children appropriate opportunities? Do you think “pushy parents” want to expend time and energy to make sure their children are academically challenged? If the school system didn’t ration out this resource and keep twisting around the process and criteria every two years, this would be a non-issue.

I wish the county didn't have to ration this resource. However, the previous process left out children who didn't have 'pushy' parents or the advantage of prep classes, but could nonetheless benefit/thrive from a more challenging academic environment. The updated system allows more children to participate irrespective of how pushy/priviledged their parents are and I too believe that those parents resent that change.

The only way to resolve the tension is to provide more challenging courses/advanced offerings at ALL schools. I don't know how feasible that is though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Your very thoughtful response (which I agree with) does not fit into the narrative that is being pushed in this thread.

Some posters to this thread (or maybe it is just one poster) are against any measures that increase access to magnet programs in an equitable way. 'Equity' is a bad word. Their belief is that a child's intelligence and ability to do more challenging work is solely measured through a test score--a test that some of them may have prepped their kids for. They will never acknowledge this however.

I saw the same 'panic' when MCPS decided to test all 3rd graders for entrance to an enrichment program instead of relying on a request from parents. It's disgusting, really, and I hope MCPS continues to move forward with measures that can expand the number of children who can participate.

Agree and personally I think it's because they resent not having these opportunities simply handed to them like in the past where a pushy parent could easily game admissions for their darling child.

Do you think it’s wrong that a public school system hand 11 year old children appropriate opportunities? Do you think “pushy parents” want to expend time and energy to make sure their children are academically challenged? If the school system didn’t ration out this resource and keep twisting around the process and criteria every two years, this would be a non-issue.

I wish the county didn't have to ration this resource. However, the previous process left out children who didn't have 'pushy' parents or the advantage of prep classes, but could nonetheless benefit/thrive from a more challenging academic environment. The updated system allows more children to participate irrespective of how pushy/priviledged their parents are and I too believe that those parents resent that change.

The only way to resolve the tension is to provide more challenging courses/advanced offerings at ALL schools. I don't know how feasible that is though.

Exactly - now, you can't game the system for your kid. You can't prep them, you can't leverage your relationship with you're kid's teacher, you can't call central office and advocate for your kid -- there is no "manager" to speak to!

I'm an alum of the magnet program from the early 90s, when it was application-based. I have a rising 6th grader who went to a CES school, tested off the charts, got into the lottery, and wasn't selected for a magnet slot. This lottery system is by far the better, more equitable method (given the fact that we're in a school system where the number of spots for a challenging academic environment is limited, which is bullsh!t).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Your very thoughtful response (which I agree with) does not fit into the narrative that is being pushed in this thread.

Some posters to this thread (or maybe it is just one poster) are against any measures that increase access to magnet programs in an equitable way. 'Equity' is a bad word. Their belief is that a child's intelligence and ability to do more challenging work is solely measured through a test score--a test that some of them may have prepped their kids for. They will never acknowledge this however.

I saw the same 'panic' when MCPS decided to test all 3rd graders for entrance to an enrichment program instead of relying on a request from parents. It's disgusting, really, and I hope MCPS continues to move forward with measures that can expand the number of children who can participate.

Agree and personally I think it's because they resent not having these opportunities simply handed to them like in the past where a pushy parent could easily game admissions for their darling child.

Do you think it’s wrong that a public school system hand 11 year old children appropriate opportunities? Do you think “pushy parents” want to expend time and energy to make sure their children are academically challenged? If the school system didn’t ration out this resource and keep twisting around the process and criteria every two years, this would be a non-issue.

I wish the county didn't have to ration this resource. However, the previous process left out children who didn't have 'pushy' parents or the advantage of prep classes, but could nonetheless benefit/thrive from a more challenging academic environment. The updated system allows more children to participate irrespective of how pushy/priviledged their parents are and I too believe that those parents resent that change.

The only way to resolve the tension is to provide more challenging courses/advanced offerings at ALL schools. I don't know how feasible that is though.

Exactly - now, you can't game the system for your kid. You can't prep them, you can't leverage your relationship with you're kid's teacher, you can't call central office and advocate for your kid -- there is no "manager" to speak to!

I'm an alum of the magnet program from the early 90s, when it was application-based. I have a rising 6th grader who went to a CES school, tested off the charts, got into the lottery, and wasn't selected for a magnet slot. This lottery system is by far the better, more equitable method (given the fact that we're in a school system where the number of spots for a challenging academic environment is limited, which is bullsh!t).

I mostly agree with everything you wrote, but I feel there's room for improvement over the lottery. Mostly would like to see:

1) expand these programs to include more students since the number of those who would benefit far exceeds the number of seats
2) ensure that the kids who are real outliers participate, not just 99% kids but kids that are a standard deviation over the 99%
3) do not reinstate road blocks that people can prep for

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Your very thoughtful response (which I agree with) does not fit into the narrative that is being pushed in this thread.

Some posters to this thread (or maybe it is just one poster) are against any measures that increase access to magnet programs in an equitable way. 'Equity' is a bad word. Their belief is that a child's intelligence and ability to do more challenging work is solely measured through a test score--a test that some of them may have prepped their kids for. They will never acknowledge this however.

I saw the same 'panic' when MCPS decided to test all 3rd graders for entrance to an enrichment program instead of relying on a request from parents. It's disgusting, really, and I hope MCPS continues to move forward with measures that can expand the number of children who can participate.

Agree and personally I think it's because they resent not having these opportunities simply handed to them like in the past where a pushy parent could easily game admissions for their darling child.

Do you think it’s wrong that a public school system hand 11 year old children appropriate opportunities? Do you think “pushy parents” want to expend time and energy to make sure their children are academically challenged? If the school system didn’t ration out this resource and keep twisting around the process and criteria every two years, this would be a non-issue.

I wish the county didn't have to ration this resource. However, the previous process left out children who didn't have 'pushy' parents or the advantage of prep classes, but could nonetheless benefit/thrive from a more challenging academic environment. The updated system allows more children to participate irrespective of how pushy/priviledged their parents are and I too believe that those parents resent that change.

The only way to resolve the tension is to provide more challenging courses/advanced offerings at ALL schools. I don't know how feasible that is though.

They don’t have to ration this resource. Why are there many more CES schools/seats compared to the number of middle school magnet seats? There is no real reason other than someone at some point decided it and no one has decided to prioritize/make changes otherwise. It is not a giant, expensive investment to provide more challenging/advanced offerings at all schools. That is the part that I find most upsetting. That their primary agenda is not to properly educate children. They are certainly finding all kinds of resources to devote to other surveys, audits, priorities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Your very thoughtful response (which I agree with) does not fit into the narrative that is being pushed in this thread.

Some posters to this thread (or maybe it is just one poster) are against any measures that increase access to magnet programs in an equitable way. 'Equity' is a bad word. Their belief is that a child's intelligence and ability to do more challenging work is solely measured through a test score--a test that some of them may have prepped their kids for. They will never acknowledge this however.

I saw the same 'panic' when MCPS decided to test all 3rd graders for entrance to an enrichment program instead of relying on a request from parents. It's disgusting, really, and I hope MCPS continues to move forward with measures that can expand the number of children who can participate.

Agree and personally I think it's because they resent not having these opportunities simply handed to them like in the past where a pushy parent could easily game admissions for their darling child.

Do you think it’s wrong that a public school system hand 11 year old children appropriate opportunities? Do you think “pushy parents” want to expend time and energy to make sure their children are academically challenged? If the school system didn’t ration out this resource and keep twisting around the process and criteria every two years, this would be a non-issue.

I wish the county didn't have to ration this resource. However, the previous process left out children who didn't have 'pushy' parents or the advantage of prep classes, but could nonetheless benefit/thrive from a more challenging academic environment. The updated system allows more children to participate irrespective of how pushy/priviledged their parents are and I too believe that those parents resent that change.

The only way to resolve the tension is to provide more challenging courses/advanced offerings at ALL schools. I don't know how feasible that is though.

They don’t have to ration this resource. Why are there many more CES schools/seats compared to the number of middle school magnet seats? There is no real reason other than someone at some point decided it and no one has decided to prioritize/make changes otherwise. It is not a giant, expensive investment to provide more challenging/advanced offerings at all schools. That is the part that I find most upsetting. That their primary agenda is not to properly educate children. They are certainly finding all kinds of resources to devote to other surveys, audits, priorities.

I agree. I also wonder how much the county has grown since these programs began. Maybe 30 years ago when the county had half the number of students it made sense but there's no way that's true especially for the MS level where the opportunities are so limited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Your very thoughtful response (which I agree with) does not fit into the narrative that is being pushed in this thread.

Some posters to this thread (or maybe it is just one poster) are against any measures that increase access to magnet programs in an equitable way. 'Equity' is a bad word. Their belief is that a child's intelligence and ability to do more challenging work is solely measured through a test score--a test that some of them may have prepped their kids for. They will never acknowledge this however.

I saw the same 'panic' when MCPS decided to test all 3rd graders for entrance to an enrichment program instead of relying on a request from parents. It's disgusting, really, and I hope MCPS continues to move forward with measures that can expand the number of children who can participate.

Agree and personally I think it's because they resent not having these opportunities simply handed to them like in the past where a pushy parent could easily game admissions for their darling child.

Do you think it’s wrong that a public school system hand 11 year old children appropriate opportunities? Do you think “pushy parents” want to expend time and energy to make sure their children are academically challenged? If the school system didn’t ration out this resource and keep twisting around the process and criteria every two years, this would be a non-issue.

I wish the county didn't have to ration this resource. However, the previous process left out children who didn't have 'pushy' parents or the advantage of prep classes, but could nonetheless benefit/thrive from a more challenging academic environment. The updated system allows more children to participate irrespective of how pushy/priviledged their parents are and I too believe that those parents resent that change.

The only way to resolve the tension is to provide more challenging courses/advanced offerings at ALL schools. I don't know how feasible that is though.

They don’t have to ration this resource. Why are there many more CES schools/seats compared to the number of middle school magnet seats? There is no real reason other than someone at some point decided it and no one has decided to prioritize/make changes otherwise. It is not a giant, expensive investment to provide more challenging/advanced offerings at all schools. That is the part that I find most upsetting. That their primary agenda is not to properly educate children. They are certainly finding all kinds of resources to devote to other surveys, audits, priorities.

I'm the PP. You make a good point....I wonder if the rationing is related to teachers? In other words, do you need teachers with specific education/qualification to teach these advanced courses?

[Anonymous]

Why can't just provide magnet opportunities for all students? Why do you even want a cut off? After all all children excel with right amount of enrichment no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best part of all this is that while MCPS is rolling dice with 'equity' Magnet programs with all the mediocre kids just doing meh, the kids with parents funding specialized tutors and programs will look great on their college applications.

In the end, all AEI ended up doing is watering down the program and making their 'equity' kids look worse. Terrible strategy, but it's what I've come to expect from MCPS Central Office nowadays. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In some alternate reality, perhaps, but in MCPS, none of this is true. The programs remain unchanged. They weren't watered down since it turns out a lot more kids were capable of doing the work.

If kids at the 60% percentile can do magnet work, it means that the magnet needs to up its game, not that somehow the students have transformed into academic giants.

The kids at 60%. Are the top 5% in their home school. Now, they are bottom 30% in the magnet. Can some of the 60% move up after being in the magnet? A few may, but most may not. Their self esteem will disappear soon.

I think you are looking at this all wrong. You are assuming talent is fixed, and can't be nurtured. A child who has managed to do well in an elementary school with fewer resources, with less teacher attention, and against systemic odds, is exactly the kind of child that deserves a chance to have their talents nurtured in a magnet.

Also, as someone with kids who have been through the mangets (one a rising 8th grader), it's not the URM kids who are struggling and giving up. It's the kids who never had to try before and don't like this new feeling. Typically, those are MC/UMC white boys, to be honest. My magnet kid did most of 6th grade at home so I saw who was paying attention and who was playing video games during class. It wasn't the Black/Latino kids, or the kids clearly working in apartment buildings, that were goofing off.

Your very thoughtful response (which I agree with) does not fit into the narrative that is being pushed in this thread.

Some posters to this thread (or maybe it is just one poster) are against any measures that increase access to magnet programs in an equitable way. 'Equity' is a bad word. Their belief is that a child's intelligence and ability to do more challenging work is solely measured through a test score--a test that some of them may have prepped their kids for. They will never acknowledge this however.

I saw the same 'panic' when MCPS decided to test all 3rd graders for entrance to an enrichment program instead of relying on a request from parents. It's disgusting, really, and I hope MCPS continues to move forward with measures that can expand the number of children who can participate.

Agree and personally I think it's because they resent not having these opportunities simply handed to them like in the past where a pushy parent could easily game admissions for their darling child.

Do you think it’s wrong that a public school system hand 11 year old children appropriate opportunities? Do you think “pushy parents” want to expend time and energy to make sure their children are academically challenged? If the school system didn’t ration out this resource and keep twisting around the process and criteria every two years, this would be a non-issue.

I wish the county didn't have to ration this resource. However, the previous process left out children who didn't have 'pushy' parents or the advantage of prep classes, but could nonetheless benefit/thrive from a more challenging academic environment. The updated system allows more children to participate irrespective of how pushy/priviledged their parents are and I too believe that those parents resent that change.

The only way to resolve the tension is to provide more challenging courses/advanced offerings at ALL schools. I don't know how feasible that is though.

They don’t have to ration this resource. Why are there many more CES schools/seats compared to the number of middle school magnet seats? There is no real reason other than someone at some point decided it and no one has decided to prioritize/make changes otherwise. It is not a giant, expensive investment to provide more challenging/advanced offerings at all schools. That is the part that I find most upsetting. That their primary agenda is not to properly educate children. They are certainly finding all kinds of resources to devote to other surveys, audits, priorities.

Lack of interest by qualified teachers. It’s an immense amount of work for no additional pay. Often magnet teachers must also teach non-magnet courses at the same time.

Lack of interest by principals who would have to house the programs. Magnet parents have a well-earned reputation for complaining more than Gen Ed parents.

[Anonymous]

Face facts. Nothing will change until the board is voted out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Face facts. Nothing will change until the board is voted out.

You are like a broken record. Please get a life.

[Anonymous]

This helps support my decision not to send my kid who is in the 99% to Takoma park.