Taylor Elem - principal promoted

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Anonymous wrote:I very much doubt any parent who describes the IEP or 504 process at Hamm as smooth and/or who waited until middle school to help their child. But then I see where a parent who describes kids finally get assistance as an onslaught as compared to a history of ignoring kids or sending them to a different school (seriously, PP? seriously?) probably would rather their own child was "normal."

Also, you can google accommodations, 504s, IEPs for elementary school kids. But you didn't do that when your kid needed them because you were ableist. So there's that.



Are none of you able to read my posts? I was saying that to someone who had been teaching for 20 years, the landscape had changed considerably and it could feel like an onslaught. It wasn’t my own impression.

Anyways, my kid did great in elementary school, it was no problem and had the highest ratings on standard base grading, high scores on SOL‘s, it was easy. But then when you get to middle school and the necessity of tracking homework and projects and actual test that matter, it became apparent the disorganization and executive function was

We are at HBW, and I suspect the fact that we have a counselor, i.e. a teacher who has a smaller subset of students may make it easier for our IEP to be met. I don’t know how it is at Hamm.

our psychologist was very clear that the school must provide the services, it’s the law and once you show up with the testing, they just check through the list of accommodations hard by law. What does the principal have to do? I just don’t understand?

I know that there are pullouts for social skills, we do not have experience with that, executive function, coaching, and then they do things like your kid at the front of the class and let them have tools to help them focus in class. I just don’t see where the principal gets involved.


So you've never had trouble getting your kid what they need at school. But others have. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

It's hilarious that you think schools always follow the law automatically. They don't.


I’m asking at Taylor what services they are having trouble getting? It seems like for elementary school it’s pretty low hanging fruit.

DP. What is that based on though? You don’t seem to know what services would/could be available in elementary school so how would you know if it’s low hanging fruit? And also the person who started here might as well post her kids name if she’s just going to post the specific service they had trouble with. It’s not that big a school and the principal was only here since 2022.


I asked broadly what services. They told me to Google it. I did. I listed those services and don’t see why a principal would be involved in moving a kid to the front of the class or getting an organization binder.
They can list their bit along with other bits to be anonymous.


Then you have no idea how the special ed process works, and you definitely don't know how badly sped kids and families have been treated at Taylor. And you don't seem at all like you care, just want to minimize what other people have been through. Sorry if you liked this principal. Others did not.


I’m starting to see why she is dismissive of you parents. I’ve asked for concrete examples of the types of services that have been refused and what part she would play in it, and i get repeated directions to google it (which i have, as well as asked an LLM), and no help.

I expect your bad behavior will be noted by the teachers and will poison the well for the hiring process of a new principal. Thanks.


And it has been explained to you that you are asking for information that could out a child. Why are you so nosy? No one owes you private information.


I have listed a bunch of services for an IEP, I researched it on APS and other resources. None of it it really involves the principal. So it’s clear you were asking for something very special for your child, likely beyond the IEP requirements, and that’s why it will out your child. And that’s why KM likely didn’t accommodate you, because it was outside the norm, but you are convinced it’s a necessity. It’s clear thank you.

DP. This is the dumbest logic I have ever seen. You can’t say something is outside of the norm without even knowing what the disability is or what the request was! You don’t even know why KM disagreed it could’ve been she wanted more testing or any number of other reasons not directly related to what the request was.


If the request would be that identifying and not in the standard IEP accommodations list it is by definition outside the normal accommodations. But PP just like to be coy about what they were asking and throw unsupported complaints about KM.


IEPs are about much more than accommodations so you're wrong again. And even for an accommodation, there may be a specific accommodation that a student needed that was denied so it could be identifying.

You are mixing up so much and I dont have time or patience to explain it to you. You think just because you did a little research now you're an expert.

You have no idea what you're talking about but yet you want to lay blame on families when you have no idea what they have been through.

You are CLUELESS.


What exactly do you mean besides accommodations? Do you mean services like coaching? There’s all the same thing.


IEPs have services and accommodations. 504 plans have accommodations only. An accommodation can be something like preferential seating. Another requires service hours by special ed personnel (or counselors, or speech therapists, etc.). Surely you can see the difference. Either way, any of those can be approved or denied.
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Anonymous wrote:I very much doubt any parent who describes the IEP or 504 process at Hamm as smooth and/or who waited until middle school to help their child. But then I see where a parent who describes kids finally get assistance as an onslaught as compared to a history of ignoring kids or sending them to a different school (seriously, PP? seriously?) probably would rather their own child was "normal."

Also, you can google accommodations, 504s, IEPs for elementary school kids. But you didn't do that when your kid needed them because you were ableist. So there's that.



Are none of you able to read my posts? I was saying that to someone who had been teaching for 20 years, the landscape had changed considerably and it could feel like an onslaught. It wasn’t my own impression.

Anyways, my kid did great in elementary school, it was no problem and had the highest ratings on standard base grading, high scores on SOL‘s, it was easy. But then when you get to middle school and the necessity of tracking homework and projects and actual test that matter, it became apparent the disorganization and executive function was

We are at HBW, and I suspect the fact that we have a counselor, i.e. a teacher who has a smaller subset of students may make it easier for our IEP to be met. I don’t know how it is at Hamm.

our psychologist was very clear that the school must provide the services, it’s the law and once you show up with the testing, they just check through the list of accommodations hard by law. What does the principal have to do? I just don’t understand?

I know that there are pullouts for social skills, we do not have experience with that, executive function, coaching, and then they do things like your kid at the front of the class and let them have tools to help them focus in class. I just don’t see where the principal gets involved.


So you've never had trouble getting your kid what they need at school. But others have. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

It's hilarious that you think schools always follow the law automatically. They don't.


I’m asking at Taylor what services they are having trouble getting? It seems like for elementary school it’s pretty low hanging fruit.

DP. What is that based on though? You don’t seem to know what services would/could be available in elementary school so how would you know if it’s low hanging fruit? And also the person who started here might as well post her kids name if she’s just going to post the specific service they had trouble with. It’s not that big a school and the principal was only here since 2022.


I asked broadly what services. They told me to Google it. I did. I listed those services and don’t see why a principal would be involved in moving a kid to the front of the class or getting an organization binder.
They can list their bit along with other bits to be anonymous.


Then you have no idea how the special ed process works, and you definitely don't know how badly sped kids and families have been treated at Taylor. And you don't seem at all like you care, just want to minimize what other people have been through. Sorry if you liked this principal. Others did not.


I’m starting to see why she is dismissive of you parents. I’ve asked for concrete examples of the types of services that have been refused and what part she would play in it, and i get repeated directions to google it (which i have, as well as asked an LLM), and no help.

I expect your bad behavior will be noted by the teachers and will poison the well for the hiring process of a new principal. Thanks.


And it has been explained to you that you are asking for information that could out a child. Why are you so nosy? No one owes you private information.


I have listed a bunch of services for an IEP, I researched it on APS and other resources. None of it it really involves the principal. So it’s clear you were asking for something very special for your child, likely beyond the IEP requirements, and that’s why it will out your child. And that’s why KM likely didn’t accommodate you, because it was outside the norm, but you are convinced it’s a necessity. It’s clear thank you.

DP. This is the dumbest logic I have ever seen. You can’t say something is outside of the norm without even knowing what the disability is or what the request was! You don’t even know why KM disagreed it could’ve been she wanted more testing or any number of other reasons not directly related to what the request was.


If the request would be that identifying and not in the standard IEP accommodations list it is by definition outside the normal accommodations. But PP just like to be coy about what they were asking and throw unsupported complaints about KM.


IEPs are about much more than accommodations so you're wrong again. And even for an accommodation, there may be a specific accommodation that a student needed that was denied so it could be identifying.

You are mixing up so much and I dont have time or patience to explain it to you. You think just because you did a little research now you're an expert.

You have no idea what you're talking about but yet you want to lay blame on families when you have no idea what they have been through.

You are CLUELESS.


What exactly do you mean besides accommodations? Do you mean services like coaching? There’s all the same thing.


IEPs have services and accommodations. 504 plans have accommodations only. An accommodation can be something like preferential seating. Another requires service hours by special ed personnel (or counselors, or speech therapists, etc.). Surely you can see the difference. Either way, any of those can be approved or denied.


I meant both by accommodations; they accommodate the students need with services like skills coaching etc.

So it was special coaching that was denied? Do other students get it and just not yours?
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Anonymous wrote:I very much doubt any parent who describes the IEP or 504 process at Hamm as smooth and/or who waited until middle school to help their child. But then I see where a parent who describes kids finally get assistance as an onslaught as compared to a history of ignoring kids or sending them to a different school (seriously, PP? seriously?) probably would rather their own child was "normal."

Also, you can google accommodations, 504s, IEPs for elementary school kids. But you didn't do that when your kid needed them because you were ableist. So there's that.



Are none of you able to read my posts? I was saying that to someone who had been teaching for 20 years, the landscape had changed considerably and it could feel like an onslaught. It wasn’t my own impression.

Anyways, my kid did great in elementary school, it was no problem and had the highest ratings on standard base grading, high scores on SOL‘s, it was easy. But then when you get to middle school and the necessity of tracking homework and projects and actual test that matter, it became apparent the disorganization and executive function was

We are at HBW, and I suspect the fact that we have a counselor, i.e. a teacher who has a smaller subset of students may make it easier for our IEP to be met. I don’t know how it is at Hamm.

our psychologist was very clear that the school must provide the services, it’s the law and once you show up with the testing, they just check through the list of accommodations hard by law. What does the principal have to do? I just don’t understand?

I know that there are pullouts for social skills, we do not have experience with that, executive function, coaching, and then they do things like your kid at the front of the class and let them have tools to help them focus in class. I just don’t see where the principal gets involved.


So you've never had trouble getting your kid what they need at school. But others have. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

It's hilarious that you think schools always follow the law automatically. They don't.


I’m asking at Taylor what services they are having trouble getting? It seems like for elementary school it’s pretty low hanging fruit.

DP. What is that based on though? You don’t seem to know what services would/could be available in elementary school so how would you know if it’s low hanging fruit? And also the person who started here might as well post her kids name if she’s just going to post the specific service they had trouble with. It’s not that big a school and the principal was only here since 2022.


I asked broadly what services. They told me to Google it. I did. I listed those services and don’t see why a principal would be involved in moving a kid to the front of the class or getting an organization binder.
They can list their bit along with other bits to be anonymous.


Then you have no idea how the special ed process works, and you definitely don't know how badly sped kids and families have been treated at Taylor. And you don't seem at all like you care, just want to minimize what other people have been through. Sorry if you liked this principal. Others did not.


I’m starting to see why she is dismissive of you parents. I’ve asked for concrete examples of the types of services that have been refused and what part she would play in it, and i get repeated directions to google it (which i have, as well as asked an LLM), and no help.

I expect your bad behavior will be noted by the teachers and will poison the well for the hiring process of a new principal. Thanks.


And it has been explained to you that you are asking for information that could out a child. Why are you so nosy? No one owes you private information.


I have listed a bunch of services for an IEP, I researched it on APS and other resources. None of it it really involves the principal. So it’s clear you were asking for something very special for your child, likely beyond the IEP requirements, and that’s why it will out your child. And that’s why KM likely didn’t accommodate you, because it was outside the norm, but you are convinced it’s a necessity. It’s clear thank you.

DP. This is the dumbest logic I have ever seen. You can’t say something is outside of the norm without even knowing what the disability is or what the request was! You don’t even know why KM disagreed it could’ve been she wanted more testing or any number of other reasons not directly related to what the request was.


If the request would be that identifying and not in the standard IEP accommodations list it is by definition outside the normal accommodations. But PP just like to be coy about what they were asking and throw unsupported complaints about KM.


IEPs are about much more than accommodations so you're wrong again. And even for an accommodation, there may be a specific accommodation that a student needed that was denied so it could be identifying.

You are mixing up so much and I dont have time or patience to explain it to you. You think just because you did a little research now you're an expert.

You have no idea what you're talking about but yet you want to lay blame on families when you have no idea what they have been through.

You are CLUELESS.


What exactly do you mean besides accommodations? Do you mean services like coaching? There’s all the same thing.


Oh boy. I love how you think you know it all - so much so that you are so very sure I did something wrong and not KM - when you know ZERO. ZILCH. NADA. Sit down. Have a seat. Listen to the people who have been through this instead of just dismissing them. You may learn something!


I keep asking for facts and I keep getting told to Google.
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I very much doubt any parent who describes the IEP or 504 process at Hamm as smooth and/or who waited until middle school to help their child. But then I see where a parent who describes kids finally get assistance as an onslaught as compared to a history of ignoring kids or sending them to a different school (seriously, PP? seriously?) probably would rather their own child was "normal."

Also, you can google accommodations, 504s, IEPs for elementary school kids. But you didn't do that when your kid needed them because you were ableist. So there's that.



Are none of you able to read my posts? I was saying that to someone who had been teaching for 20 years, the landscape had changed considerably and it could feel like an onslaught. It wasn’t my own impression.

Anyways, my kid did great in elementary school, it was no problem and had the highest ratings on standard base grading, high scores on SOL‘s, it was easy. But then when you get to middle school and the necessity of tracking homework and projects and actual test that matter, it became apparent the disorganization and executive function was

We are at HBW, and I suspect the fact that we have a counselor, i.e. a teacher who has a smaller subset of students may make it easier for our IEP to be met. I don’t know how it is at Hamm.

our psychologist was very clear that the school must provide the services, it’s the law and once you show up with the testing, they just check through the list of accommodations hard by law. What does the principal have to do? I just don’t understand?

I know that there are pullouts for social skills, we do not have experience with that, executive function, coaching, and then they do things like your kid at the front of the class and let them have tools to help them focus in class. I just don’t see where the principal gets involved.


So you've never had trouble getting your kid what they need at school. But others have. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

It's hilarious that you think schools always follow the law automatically. They don't.


I’m asking at Taylor what services they are having trouble getting? It seems like for elementary school it’s pretty low hanging fruit.

DP. What is that based on though? You don’t seem to know what services would/could be available in elementary school so how would you know if it’s low hanging fruit? And also the person who started here might as well post her kids name if she’s just going to post the specific service they had trouble with. It’s not that big a school and the principal was only here since 2022.


I asked broadly what services. They told me to Google it. I did. I listed those services and don’t see why a principal would be involved in moving a kid to the front of the class or getting an organization binder.
They can list their bit along with other bits to be anonymous.


Then you have no idea how the special ed process works, and you definitely don't know how badly sped kids and families have been treated at Taylor. And you don't seem at all like you care, just want to minimize what other people have been through. Sorry if you liked this principal. Others did not.


I’m starting to see why she is dismissive of you parents. I’ve asked for concrete examples of the types of services that have been refused and what part she would play in it, and i get repeated directions to google it (which i have, as well as asked an LLM), and no help.

I expect your bad behavior will be noted by the teachers and will poison the well for the hiring process of a new principal. Thanks.


And it has been explained to you that you are asking for information that could out a child. Why are you so nosy? No one owes you private information.


I have listed a bunch of services for an IEP, I researched it on APS and other resources. None of it it really involves the principal. So it’s clear you were asking for something very special for your child, likely beyond the IEP requirements, and that’s why it will out your child. And that’s why KM likely didn’t accommodate you, because it was outside the norm, but you are convinced it’s a necessity. It’s clear thank you.

DP. This is the dumbest logic I have ever seen. You can’t say something is outside of the norm without even knowing what the disability is or what the request was! You don’t even know why KM disagreed it could’ve been she wanted more testing or any number of other reasons not directly related to what the request was.


If the request would be that identifying and not in the standard IEP accommodations list it is by definition outside the normal accommodations. But PP just like to be coy about what they were asking and throw unsupported complaints about KM.


IEPs are about much more than accommodations so you're wrong again. And even for an accommodation, there may be a specific accommodation that a student needed that was denied so it could be identifying.

You are mixing up so much and I dont have time or patience to explain it to you. You think just because you did a little research now you're an expert.

You have no idea what you're talking about but yet you want to lay blame on families when you have no idea what they have been through.

You are CLUELESS.


What exactly do you mean besides accommodations? Do you mean services like coaching? There’s all the same thing.


Oh boy. I love how you think you know it all - so much so that you are so very sure I did something wrong and not KM - when you know ZERO. ZILCH. NADA. Sit down. Have a seat. Listen to the people who have been through this instead of just dismissing them. You may learn something!


I keep asking for facts and I keep getting told to Google.


People have tried to give you explanations, but there is no way anyone can give you a complete education over DCUM. You seem really stuck on how you want to see things, so that makes it much harder too.
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I very much doubt any parent who describes the IEP or 504 process at Hamm as smooth and/or who waited until middle school to help their child. But then I see where a parent who describes kids finally get assistance as an onslaught as compared to a history of ignoring kids or sending them to a different school (seriously, PP? seriously?) probably would rather their own child was "normal."

Also, you can google accommodations, 504s, IEPs for elementary school kids. But you didn't do that when your kid needed them because you were ableist. So there's that.



Are none of you able to read my posts? I was saying that to someone who had been teaching for 20 years, the landscape had changed considerably and it could feel like an onslaught. It wasn’t my own impression.

Anyways, my kid did great in elementary school, it was no problem and had the highest ratings on standard base grading, high scores on SOL‘s, it was easy. But then when you get to middle school and the necessity of tracking homework and projects and actual test that matter, it became apparent the disorganization and executive function was

We are at HBW, and I suspect the fact that we have a counselor, i.e. a teacher who has a smaller subset of students may make it easier for our IEP to be met. I don’t know how it is at Hamm.

our psychologist was very clear that the school must provide the services, it’s the law and once you show up with the testing, they just check through the list of accommodations hard by law. What does the principal have to do? I just don’t understand?

I know that there are pullouts for social skills, we do not have experience with that, executive function, coaching, and then they do things like your kid at the front of the class and let them have tools to help them focus in class. I just don’t see where the principal gets involved.


So you've never had trouble getting your kid what they need at school. But others have. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

It's hilarious that you think schools always follow the law automatically. They don't.


I’m asking at Taylor what services they are having trouble getting? It seems like for elementary school it’s pretty low hanging fruit.

DP. What is that based on though? You don’t seem to know what services would/could be available in elementary school so how would you know if it’s low hanging fruit? And also the person who started here might as well post her kids name if she’s just going to post the specific service they had trouble with. It’s not that big a school and the principal was only here since 2022.


I asked broadly what services. They told me to Google it. I did. I listed those services and don’t see why a principal would be involved in moving a kid to the front of the class or getting an organization binder.
They can list their bit along with other bits to be anonymous.


Then you have no idea how the special ed process works, and you definitely don't know how badly sped kids and families have been treated at Taylor. And you don't seem at all like you care, just want to minimize what other people have been through. Sorry if you liked this principal. Others did not.


I’m starting to see why she is dismissive of you parents. I’ve asked for concrete examples of the types of services that have been refused and what part she would play in it, and i get repeated directions to google it (which i have, as well as asked an LLM), and no help.

I expect your bad behavior will be noted by the teachers and will poison the well for the hiring process of a new principal. Thanks.


And it has been explained to you that you are asking for information that could out a child. Why are you so nosy? No one owes you private information.


I have listed a bunch of services for an IEP, I researched it on APS and other resources. None of it it really involves the principal. So it’s clear you were asking for something very special for your child, likely beyond the IEP requirements, and that’s why it will out your child. And that’s why KM likely didn’t accommodate you, because it was outside the norm, but you are convinced it’s a necessity. It’s clear thank you.

DP. This is the dumbest logic I have ever seen. You can’t say something is outside of the norm without even knowing what the disability is or what the request was! You don’t even know why KM disagreed it could’ve been she wanted more testing or any number of other reasons not directly related to what the request was.


If the request would be that identifying and not in the standard IEP accommodations list it is by definition outside the normal accommodations. But PP just like to be coy about what they were asking and throw unsupported complaints about KM.


IEPs are about much more than accommodations so you're wrong again. And even for an accommodation, there may be a specific accommodation that a student needed that was denied so it could be identifying.

You are mixing up so much and I dont have time or patience to explain it to you. You think just because you did a little research now you're an expert.

You have no idea what you're talking about but yet you want to lay blame on families when you have no idea what they have been through.

You are CLUELESS.


What exactly do you mean besides accommodations? Do you mean services like coaching? There’s all the same thing.


IEPs have services and accommodations. 504 plans have accommodations only. An accommodation can be something like preferential seating. Another requires service hours by special ed personnel (or counselors, or speech therapists, etc.). Surely you can see the difference. Either way, any of those can be approved or denied.


I meant both by accommodations; they accommodate the students need with services like skills coaching etc.

So it was special coaching that was denied? Do other students get it and just not yours?


Well no they are very different, so you should say what you mean. No one can read your mind.

And no "skills coaching" is not what IEPs are all about.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Principal is out at Taylor. Promoted to Director of Planning in the Office of Planning and Evaluation. Never any consequences for the bad seeds.


Why do school based administrators with performance issues get promoted to Syphax? There is a lack of accountability.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Principal is out at Taylor. Promoted to Director of Planning in the Office of Planning and Evaluation. Never any consequences for the bad seeds.


Why do school based administrators with performance issues get promoted to Syphax? There is a lack of accountability.

Did Madigan have performance issues? Is the principal job posted somewhere or is that process over? I’m very worried that they’re going to bring in someone who the teachers don’t like
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Principal is out at Taylor. Promoted to Director of Planning in the Office of Planning and Evaluation. Never any consequences for the bad seeds.


Why do school based administrators with performance issues get promoted to Syphax? There is a lack of accountability.

Did Madigan have performance issues? Is the principal job posted somewhere or is that process over? I’m very worried that they’re going to bring in someone who the teachers don’t like


I’m sure we’ll get a gem from ACPS.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Principal is out at Taylor. Promoted to Director of Planning in the Office of Planning and Evaluation. Never any consequences for the bad seeds.


Why do school based administrators with performance issues get promoted to Syphax? There is a lack of accountability.

Did Madigan have performance issues? Is the principal job posted somewhere or is that process over? I’m very worried that they’re going to bring in someone who the teachers don’t like


No performance issues for KM. This thread was initially about IG, the nightmare prior principal who did, in fact, have performance issues and was nonetheless transferred to Syphax instead of being fired. The community got to see IG again during the redistricting debate when she read clumsily from a PowerPoint and couldn’t answer any questions.

Because of that incident and others, everyone is worried that we will get stuck with another candidate like IG who is favored by Dr. Duran but a terrible fit for the community. Please speak up, email the Board, respond to the principal survey being circulated - do it all.
Marie77
Member Offline
KM was a horrible principal. My child was bullied relentlessly and nothing was done until I complained to the school board. Luckily next year when the bullying started again the Vice principal listened and helped. KM was just awful to my child and my child was actually scared of her. If I had known the experience my child would have had I would have opted for another school.
Anonymous
Marie77 wrote:KM was a horrible principal. My child was bullied relentlessly and nothing was done until I complained to the school board. Luckily next year when the bullying started again the Vice principal listened and helped. KM was just awful to my child and my child was actually scared of her. If I had known the experience my child would have had I would have opted for another school.

Bummer. We’ve had good experiences with the AP as well.
Anonymous
New principal announced. Dr. Lynch most recently she was the AP at Nottingham. Hopefully she’s a good fit.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:New principal announced. Dr. Lynch most recently she was the AP at Nottingham. Hopefully she’s a good fit.


Here’s to hoping!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:It will be interesting to see what she does in Gifted office. The director position was created and the former Supervisor was rolled up into that position, with no job description or job posting from what I can tell. Then, a former principal with gifted education background has been in the job for a year and the word on the street was that she has been under scrutiny for treating him so badly he had to be moved out to avoid a lawsuit.


What's up with that? Sounds really dysfunctional for a dept. in Syphax.
What will KM do in Gifted if there is already a director?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It will be interesting to see what she does in Gifted office. The director position was created and the former Supervisor was rolled up into that position, with no job description or job posting from what I can tell. Then, a former principal with gifted education background has been in the job for a year and the word on the street was that she has been under scrutiny for treating him so badly he had to be moved out to avoid a lawsuit.


What's up with that? Sounds really dysfunctional for a dept. in Syphax.
What will KM do in Gifted if there is already a director?


website lists her as a supervisor under the current director. That seems like a demotion from a principal. must be a story here.
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