WSJ article on your child's chances of getting into an IVY are slim

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:''McKinney High School (MHS) is located at 1400 Wilson Creek Parkway in McKinney, Texas, and is within the McKinney Independent School District. MHS is the oldest high school in McKinney and the current building opened in 1986, after moving from what is now Faubion Middle School.

Although the Texas Education Agency (TEA) rated the school as Academically Unacceptable following the 2009-10 school year, the school has shown improvement, being rated as Academically Acceptable in all following school years as of 2019.''

So she got a 1550 SAT coming from a ''weak'' high school that I am pretty sure is in a rural part of Texas. That is fairly impressive.

Just Google stuff before posting. McKinney is a suburb of Dallas. Its median home value is $412000 vs a median value in Texas of $243000. It has a population of 182000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Three paragraphs summarily explain her rejections. Twenty years ago, she wouldn't have applied to these top-tier colleges and accumulated a hoard of rejections. Twenty years ago, she would have been happy to matriculate at UT or ASU.

1. Ms. Younger wrote in the applications about her history of depression and anxiety to explain the two B’s she earned during her sophomore year.

2. Ms. Younger’s father attended the University of Oklahoma and her mother went to Montclair State University in New Jersey. She has no connection to the faculty or alumni at any elite school, nor did she hire a test-preparation coach or a private college counselor.

3. Her school serves McKinney, Texas, a fast-growing suburb 30 miles outside of Dallas. In a given year, about half of the school’s graduates enroll at four-year colleges; most attend public universities in Texas, Dr. Cranmore said. He recalls two McKinney graduates enrolling at Yale and one at Princeton over the past decade.

"She is now ranked 23rd out of 668" at a high school where only half the graduates go to a 4-year college doesn't make her a "star."
I'm sorry if someone told her otherwise. She was poorly counseled, and should've applied to more colleges that occupy the wide space between USC and ASU.

That puts her in the top 3% of the class, and she got a 1550 on the SAT. A student like that is applying to Ivies even if they won’t get in.

Applying but not likely to get in at all. 23rd is not a high rank for that level of elite college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid had a 4.0UW at TJHSST, a 1580 SAT, double digit number of APs with 5s on all the exams, state-level academic awards, club leadership, varsity athlete, and didn't get into HYPSM.

Should I call the WSJ?

Ivies are more than HYPSM. If your kid focused only on HYPSM, not surprised s/he was rejected by every one of them. There's no common denominator here except prestige. Ivies typically don't care for prestige-obsessed kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huge red flag to mention mental health issues in your essay.
And to talk about anxiety over a B? What if she failed a class in college?
Colleges worry about kids committing suicide or having a breakdown over grades.
Some kids cannot handle the transition of going from super star status at their high school to being average or worse at a top college.

I don’t disagree, but I have to point out that I find the insistence on here that there are “easy” colleges. I’m going to be really hard pressed to believe that Chemistry or Physics classes are “easy” anywhere.

Physics is hard everywhere no question but physics at MIT is a lot harder than at a small regional lac for example

[Anonymous]

The title is misleading. Your child’s chances may be higher or lower than another child’s.

[Anonymous]

"your child's chances of getting into an IVY are slim"

No duh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“The record 11.8 percent admission rate for Harvard's class of 1999 is significantly lower than rates at other Ivy League schools, ...“

Has it ever been easy?

It’s never been easy for your typical kid. It’s always been significantly easier for connected kids.

I went to a NE boarding school. They told us that before about the 1990s, kids essentially signed up for HYP like you would an intramural softball team. It isn’t like that anymore, but my high school sends roughly 25% of its graduates each year to an Ivy League school. The process remains deeply unfair.

Is this typical of the higher end NE boarding schools? Do their students get preferred admissions? Looking at this now for my kid who is interested in going starting in 2023 to play a sport (he's been talking to the coach), so if we're going to consider that school, we'll likely consider others as well. Just curious because DH and I are public school graduates so this is all new.

My husband went to Hotchkiss in the 90s. Got into every Ivy. Chose UPenn. Can count on 1 hand how many people give a damn where he went to college.

I guess it just gives more options? It perplexes me seeing kids major in whatever from a top private univ and then get a master's in teaching when they could have gone just about anywhere for an undergrad teaching degree and certification.

Why?

Well a math teacher would be better off as a math undergrad than a degree in math education. Some for just about any field.

Waste of money. You can be a public high school teacher with just an undergrad in secondary math ed.

Sure you can be. You can also not really understand your subject whcih covers most of the teachers I have ever met.

+1 I'm an educator and unfortunately, this statement is consistent with my experience as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“The record 11.8 percent admission rate for Harvard's class of 1999 is significantly lower than rates at other Ivy League schools, ...“

Has it ever been easy?

It’s never been easy for your typical kid. It’s always been significantly easier for connected kids.

I went to a NE boarding school. They told us that before about the 1990s, kids essentially signed up for HYP like you would an intramural softball team. It isn’t like that anymore, but my high school sends roughly 25% of its graduates each year to an Ivy League school. The process remains deeply unfair.

Doesn't this just show that the schools are not "all that" in the first place? It just a prestige thing, with no real value other than that. They aren't actually "better," and obviously there are thousands of brilliant students who attend other colleges.

This is what I think. No one will apply to an Ivy around here. I don’t want to increase their rejection numbers or make them look fake selective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I say lets the spawn and URM and 3.5GPA athletes have the "elites". Ivys are sort of sick in the head. The data shows that you have to be in one of those categories to get in, yet they aggressively outreached my kid and others that they had zero intention of admitting (My kids stats are higher than this girl in the article by a small margin). They dont increase their class size and they just roll in the application fees so by rejecting us all they can seem even cooler. Fool me once...but you won't fool me again. I've made a pledge that I will never hire another ivy grad and I wont let my other kids apply. Ivy League is Fake News.

Ok. Did you really fall for the aggressive outreach? Did you not pay attention to the under 5 percent acceptance rates? I'm all for boycotting those schools and not hiring their grads, but you have to be a bit gullible if you thought the outreach was anything other than marketing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This young woman simply isn't extraordinary among applicants to Ivy League colleges. She would not have gotten into one of those colleges 10 years ago. She got lousy advice from her high school guidance counselor.

Her SAT score is excellent, but there were 22,000 students in the Class of 2020 who had a score as high or higher. There isn't room for all of them in the tip top colleges. So while her score is excellent, it's not getting into a top college in and of itself.

She's not in the top 10 or even top 20 from a high school at which only half go on to college. I've never known any kid who didn't have a hook of some sort who went to an average public high school who wasn't in the top 10 in the class get into the tippy top schools.

As for her ECs

"Ms. Harberson said Ms. Younger's accomplishments on the stage at her high school and with her community theater troupe—as well as for the accounting club—were impressive but wouldn't stand out among Ivy League applicants."

Some of the schools on her list get people who have been in Broadway shows or top level regional theatres or movies. Barring that, they've attended performing arts campus like Stage Door, Interlochen, etc. Founding a club is quite common too. The KIND of club she founded probably didn't help because it shows her interest is business and schools like Harvard and Yale don't have business schools. Penn--Wharton--does and it a very tough admit.

Writing an essay trying to excuse two Bs sophomore year for mental health reasons was just plain dumb. If something like this needs to be explained, you let the counselor explain it. She could only study for 2 hours a day?!! How is she going to handle the stress of a top college? I'd be sort of afraid to take a chance on her myself.

I mean . .. isn't it time to redo the SAT/make it harder/re-normalize the scores if her score is really not all that impressive? Back in my day (the 80s!) a 750 out of 800 actually meant something/was very impressive on the SAT. Same with being valedictorian at a school - there was only one (I know she wasn't valedictorian, but my understanding is these days there are scores of them at every school).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What upper-middle-class white girl DOESNT have anxiety?

Truth.
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There aren't that many that are on anti-anxiety medication from age 7, and have to enroll in an intensive treatment program in 10th grade for 2 months. Colleges don't want to take the risk accepting her when there are so many other girls with identical stats that can get them without admitting they are on medication and who don't use it as an excuse for two B's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huge red flag to mention mental health issues in your essay.
And to talk about anxiety over a B? What if she failed a class in college?
Colleges worry about kids committing suicide or having a breakdown over grades.
Some kids cannot handle the transition of going from super star status at their high school to being average or worse at a top college.

I don’t disagree, but I have to point out that I find the insistence on here that there are “easy” colleges. I’m going to be really hard pressed to believe that Chemistry or Physics classes are “easy” anywhere.

Physics is hard everywhere no question but physics at MIT is a lot harder than at a small regional lac for example

I strongly disagree. For a bright kid physics is easier when it’s well taught. So whatever school has the ability to recruit the best teachers is the school at which physics is easier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What upper-middle-class white girl DOESNT have anxiety?

Truth.
[/quote

There aren't that many that are on anti-anxiety medication from age 7, and have to enroll in an intensive treatment program in 10th grade for 2 months. Colleges don't want to take the risk accepting her when there are so many other girls with identical stats that can get them without admitting they are on medication and who don't use it as an excuse for two B's.

There aren't that many that are on anti-anxiety medication from age 7, and have to enroll in an intensive treatment program in 10th grade for 2 months. Colleges don't want to take the risk accepting her when there are so many other girls with identical stats that can get them without admitting they are on medication and who don't use it as an excuse for two B's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huge red flag to mention mental health issues in your essay.
And to talk about anxiety over a B? What if she failed a class in college?
Colleges worry about kids committing suicide or having a breakdown over grades.
Some kids cannot handle the transition of going from super star status at their high school to being average or worse at a top college.

I don’t disagree, but I have to point out that I find the insistence on here that there are “easy” colleges. I’m going to be really hard pressed to believe that Chemistry or Physics classes are “easy” anywhere.

Physics is hard everywhere no question but physics at MIT is a lot harder than at a small regional lac for example

I strongly disagree. For a bright kid physics is easier when it’s well taught. So whatever school has the ability to recruit the best teachers is the school at which physics is easier.

Previous poster here who mentioned physics. I’d argue it’s easier at the Intro levels and is easier in that a small regional college likely has no grad classes available. But I think you’d be splitting hairs with 200-400 level courses

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This young woman simply isn't extraordinary among applicants to Ivy League colleges. She would not have gotten into one of those colleges 10 years ago. She got lousy advice from her high school guidance counselor.

Her SAT score is excellent, but there were 22,000 students in the Class of 2020 who had a score as high or higher. There isn't room for all of them in the tip top colleges. So while her score is excellent, it's not getting into a top college in and of itself.

She's not in the top 10 or even top 20 from a high school at which only half go on to college. I've never known any kid who didn't have a hook of some sort who went to an average public high school who wasn't in the top 10 in the class get into the tippy top schools.

As for her ECs

"Ms. Harberson said Ms. Younger's accomplishments on the stage at her high school and with her community theater troupe—as well as for the accounting club—were impressive but wouldn't stand out among Ivy League applicants."

Some of the schools on her list get people who have been in Broadway shows or top level regional theatres or movies. Barring that, they've attended performing arts campus like Stage Door, Interlochen, etc. Founding a club is quite common too. The KIND of club she founded probably didn't help because it shows her interest is business and schools like Harvard and Yale don't have business schools. Penn--Wharton--does and it a very tough admit.

Writing an essay trying to excuse two Bs sophomore year for mental health reasons was just plain dumb. If something like this needs to be explained, you let the counselor explain it. She could only study for 2 hours a day?!! How is she going to handle the stress of a top college? I'd be sort of afraid to take a chance on her myself.

I'm a fan of Harberson - not surprised to see the angle of her comments.

I know a kid who sang weekly with a major national opera company while attending a top girls' school and excelling there as well as in a club sport - and she did not get into her parents' Ivy alma mater. Her school guidance counselor clearly slept through the last two years.

What was the point of the WSJ article?

The point of the article is to foment white anger. It’s no accident that they chose a white girl from Texas as the poster child.

Ah, Becky with the Bad Grades