WSJ article on your child's chances of getting into an IVY are slim

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Things may have changed a lot since the pandemic, but the odds just didn't seem very daunting for my DD and her peers. DD's friends spanned a number of local public and private high schools and they were all very strong academically since middle school (no recruited athletes). All took the hardest courses available and scored really well on the tests. They were also the active, loud, pushy students who knew how to win over teachers (who write the recs) and reinvigorate the ECs they ran. The ones who got their first choice or multiple Ivy admits were the ones who did the free competitive summer programs (RSI, NSLI-Y, TASP) . The legacy who applied early were about 50/50, but not too many admissions in the RD round (most of DD's set were legacy at one of the Ivies). And, not everyone with an Ivy admit chose the school. Many preferred the SLACs or a women's college. It's just college - lots of places to get a great education in a kids preferred environment.

This comment is so interesting. My high school DCs are both very quiet --12th grade and 10th grade. They FADE into the woodwork despite being pretty smart. They get As and Bs, but they've described the "active, loud, pushy" kids who just won't stop until they get an A. They often describe them as the teachers' favorites. I appreciate that you shared this.

[Anonymous]

I don’t recall what she’s majoring in but it appears she’s reflected upon her mistakes and will be more careful during recruiting and grad school applications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huge red flag to mention mental health issues in your essay.
And to talk about anxiety over a B? What if she failed a class in college?
Colleges worry about kids committing suicide or having a breakdown over grades.
Some kids cannot handle the transition of going from super star status at their high school to being average or worse at a top college.

Ironically, she was right. Those Bs dropper her to 23rd in her class and removed her from contention for the schools she wanted to attend

And she tried to explain them with an essay assuming schools that preach no stigma and even went TO because they knew it was hard for kids wouldnt hold it against her. They did. I say this a lot but I can’t stand the hypocrisy of admissions officers.

I’m happy she’ll be debt-free and Tempe is a fun place to spend your 20s.

[Anonymous]

My kid had a 4.0UW at TJHSST, a 1580 SAT, double digit number of APs with 5s on all the exams, state-level academic awards, club leadership, varsity athlete, and didn't get into HYPSM.

Should I call the WSJ?

[Anonymous]

This young woman simply isn't extraordinary among applicants to Ivy League colleges. She would not have gotten into one of those colleges 10 years ago. She got lousy advice from her high school guidance counselor.

Her SAT score is excellent, but there were 22,000 students in the Class of 2020 who had a score as high or higher. There isn't room for all of them in the tip top colleges. So while her score is excellent, it's not getting into a top college in and of itself.

She's not in the top 10 or even top 20 from a high school at which only half go on to college. I've never known any kid who didn't have a hook of some sort who went to an average public high school who wasn't in the top 10 in the class get into the tippy top schools.

As for her ECs

"Ms. Harberson said Ms. Younger's accomplishments on the stage at her high school and with her community theater troupe—as well as for the accounting club—were impressive but wouldn't stand out among Ivy League applicants."

Some of the schools on her list get people who have been in Broadway shows or top level regional theatres or movies. Barring that, they've attended performing arts campus like Stage Door, Interlochen, etc. Founding a club is quite common too. The KIND of club she founded probably didn't help because it shows her interest is business and schools like Harvard and Yale don't have business schools. Penn--Wharton--does and it a very tough admit.

Writing an essay trying to excuse two Bs sophomore year for mental health reasons was just plain dumb. If something like this needs to be explained, you let the counselor explain it. She could only study for 2 hours a day?!! How is she going to handle the stress of a top college? I'd be sort of afraid to take a chance on her myself.

[Anonymous]

The entitlement burns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This young woman simply isn't extraordinary among applicants to Ivy League colleges. She would not have gotten into one of those colleges 10 years ago. She got lousy advice from her high school guidance counselor.

Her SAT score is excellent, but there were 22,000 students in the Class of 2020 who had a score as high or higher. There isn't room for all of them in the tip top colleges. So while her score is excellent, it's not getting into a top college in and of itself.

She's not in the top 10 or even top 20 from a high school at which only half go on to college. I've never known any kid who didn't have a hook of some sort who went to an average public high school who wasn't in the top 10 in the class get into the tippy top schools.

As for her ECs

"Ms. Harberson said Ms. Younger's accomplishments on the stage at her high school and with her community theater troupe—as well as for the accounting club—were impressive but wouldn't stand out among Ivy League applicants."

Some of the schools on her list get people who have been in Broadway shows or top level regional theatres or movies. Barring that, they've attended performing arts campus like Stage Door, Interlochen, etc. Founding a club is quite common too. The KIND of club she founded probably didn't help because it shows her interest is business and schools like Harvard and Yale don't have business schools. Penn--Wharton--does and it a very tough admit.

Writing an essay trying to excuse two Bs sophomore year for mental health reasons was just plain dumb. If something like this needs to be explained, you let the counselor explain it. She could only study for 2 hours a day?!! How is she going to handle the stress of a top college? I'd be sort of afraid to take a chance on her myself.

Most of the kids applying to these schools are also on anxiety meds, you just don’t say in on the application.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The entitlement burns.

It’s the WSJ white entitlement narrative.

[Anonymous]

Admissions are far from perfect, but this thread has seemed to devolve into a bunch of sour grapes. Not to say that high achieving kids don't deserve a great education or that some kids benefit from family status/money. There are fewer spaces (overenrollments from 2021), more kids and more apps per kid. It's all about building a class of diverse high achievers, so kids have to stand out.

A few people mentioned concerns with the essay, but, as a theatre person, 30 productions makes me question the veracity and/or extent of involvement. Who knows. I frankly think things are shifting towards awards as measurable indicators. My unhooked public school kid got into 2 Ivies (3 top schools), but had some notable awards in a variety of areas. Just a guess.

I will say I noticed the money/private school way more at one Ivy thanbthe other or than the other top school. But, the quality of education is top notch at all of them. It's not like the connected kids aren't qualified. Again, just too many bright kids vying for limited spots.

[Anonymous]

What upper-middle-class white girl DOESNT have anxiety?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huge red flag to mention mental health issues in your essay.
And to talk about anxiety over a B? What if she failed a class in college?
Colleges worry about kids committing suicide or having a breakdown over grades.
Some kids cannot handle the transition of going from super star status at their high school to being average or worse at a top college.

Ironically, she was right. Those Bs dropper her to 23rd in her class and removed her from contention for the schools she wanted to attend

I actually don’t think that is the case that the Bs were the breaker. She was still top 3%. I would bet a lot of money Ivies let in kids with 2 Bs. I think the issue is she chose to fixate on what she perceived as poor grades rather than show herself as an interesting person. Also, the article makes it sound as if she did a lot of activities to pad her resume and she thought they were what she was supposed to do rather than because she actually enjoyed doing them.

My heart goes out to her bc I think she thought she was doing all the “right” things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What upper-middle-class white girl DOESNT have anxiety?

Truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This young woman simply isn't extraordinary among applicants to Ivy League colleges. She would not have gotten into one of those colleges 10 years ago. She got lousy advice from her high school guidance counselor.

Her SAT score is excellent, but there were 22,000 students in the Class of 2020 who had a score as high or higher. There isn't room for all of them in the tip top colleges. So while her score is excellent, it's not getting into a top college in and of itself.

She's not in the top 10 or even top 20 from a high school at which only half go on to college. I've never known any kid who didn't have a hook of some sort who went to an average public high school who wasn't in the top 10 in the class get into the tippy top schools.

As for her ECs

"Ms. Harberson said Ms. Younger's accomplishments on the stage at her high school and with her community theater troupe—as well as for the accounting club—were impressive but wouldn't stand out among Ivy League applicants."

Some of the schools on her list get people who have been in Broadway shows or top level regional theatres or movies. Barring that, they've attended performing arts campus like Stage Door, Interlochen, etc. Founding a club is quite common too. The KIND of club she founded probably didn't help because it shows her interest is business and schools like Harvard and Yale don't have business schools. Penn--Wharton--does and it a very tough admit.

Writing an essay trying to excuse two Bs sophomore year for mental health reasons was just plain dumb. If something like this needs to be explained, you let the counselor explain it. She could only study for 2 hours a day?!! How is she going to handle the stress of a top college? I'd be sort of afraid to take a chance on her myself.

I'm a fan of Harberson - not surprised to see the angle of her comments.

I know a kid who sang weekly with a major national opera company while attending a top girls' school and excelling there as well as in a club sport - and she did not get into her parents' Ivy alma mater. Her school guidance counselor clearly slept through the last two years.

What was the point of the WSJ article?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Three paragraphs summarily explain her rejections. Twenty years ago, she wouldn't have applied to these top-tier colleges and accumulated a hoard of rejections. Twenty years ago, she would have been happy to matriculate at UT or ASU.

1. Ms. Younger wrote in the applications about her history of depression and anxiety to explain the two B’s she earned during her sophomore year.

2. Ms. Younger’s father attended the University of Oklahoma and her mother went to Montclair State University in New Jersey. She has no connection to the faculty or alumni at any elite school, nor did she hire a test-preparation coach or a private college counselor.

3. Her school serves McKinney, Texas, a fast-growing suburb 30 miles outside of Dallas. In a given year, about half of the school’s graduates enroll at four-year colleges; most attend public universities in Texas, Dr. Cranmore said. He recalls two McKinney graduates enrolling at Yale and one at Princeton over the past decade.

"She is now ranked 23rd out of 668" at a high school where only half the graduates go to a 4-year college doesn't make her a "star."
I'm sorry if someone told her otherwise. She was poorly counseled, and should've applied to more colleges that occupy the wide space between USC and ASU.

That puts her in the top 3% of the class, and she got a 1550 on the SAT. A student like that is applying to Ivies even if they won’t get in.

Not at a second-rate high school.

I got into an Ivy from a second rate high school!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This young woman simply isn't extraordinary among applicants to Ivy League colleges. She would not have gotten into one of those colleges 10 years ago. She got lousy advice from her high school guidance counselor.

Her SAT score is excellent, but there were 22,000 students in the Class of 2020 who had a score as high or higher. There isn't room for all of them in the tip top colleges. So while her score is excellent, it's not getting into a top college in and of itself.

She's not in the top 10 or even top 20 from a high school at which only half go on to college. I've never known any kid who didn't have a hook of some sort who went to an average public high school who wasn't in the top 10 in the class get into the tippy top schools.

As for her ECs

"Ms. Harberson said Ms. Younger's accomplishments on the stage at her high school and with her community theater troupe—as well as for the accounting club—were impressive but wouldn't stand out among Ivy League applicants."

Some of the schools on her list get people who have been in Broadway shows or top level regional theatres or movies. Barring that, they've attended performing arts campus like Stage Door, Interlochen, etc. Founding a club is quite common too. The KIND of club she founded probably didn't help because it shows her interest is business and schools like Harvard and Yale don't have business schools. Penn--Wharton--does and it a very tough admit.

Writing an essay trying to excuse two Bs sophomore year for mental health reasons was just plain dumb. If something like this needs to be explained, you let the counselor explain it. She could only study for 2 hours a day?!! How is she going to handle the stress of a top college? I'd be sort of afraid to take a chance on her myself.

I'm a fan of Harberson - not surprised to see the angle of her comments.

I know a kid who sang weekly with a major national opera company while attending a top girls' school and excelling there as well as in a club sport - and she did not get into her parents' Ivy alma mater. Her school guidance counselor clearly slept through the last two years.

What was the point of the WSJ article?

The point of the article is to foment white anger. It’s no accident that they chose a white girl from Texas as the poster child.