I would love thoughts on my possible SN child

[Anonymous]

I have a dd who is 14 and an older child with autism. For a couple of years the working theory has been that the 14 year old is probably also on the spectrum but with less severity than older autistic child (who is not intellectually compromised but has hard time with most aspects of life).

Can anyone help me with an armchair diagnosis or suggestions to get her into therapy? She has been in therapy in the past but performs a charm offensive so therapists don't really know what she's like. She'll only discuss friends (spoiler alert: she doesn't have many) and never family. She won't go to family therapy no matter how much we try or incentives offered.

Here's a typical afternoon with her - she comes home and instantly starts asking whether I got her something she asked for. I asked her to restart the conversation by saying hello, how are you, before asking the question. She wouldn't do it.

As she is examining things she has just taken from the fridge, I ask her to close the door (a daily conversation). I need to explain why once again. She says if I'm worried about wasting electricity I should turn off the lights. I say I'm using the lights. She says what about the light in your room? I said yes you're right but that doesn't mean you shouldn't close the door to the fridge. All with the door still open. Then she says, don't you think you're being a hypocrite. I raise my voice and she finally closes door.

Then she touches on a sensitive subject to her older sibling, who asks her to stop. She keeps telling the story anyways. Spouse and I ask her to stop. She says it won't bother her and continues with the story. Older sibling is frustrated and leaves. She tells the whole story. We say, we can hear the story another time when she's not here but it's not ok to continue when asked not to. She says, I don't understand why it's a big deal. We explain why it's a BIG deal (it's related to a recent event that was traumatic for older sibling and also very saddening for us as parents). She seems to listen, then as she leaves the room says, I still don't understand why I can't talk about it. I told her that these constant interactions are all very draining for me and I wish she would talk to a therapist about it.

This is our life, day in and day out. It doesn't feel like normal teenager stuff, though admittedly our older child was not a "normal" teenager. She is obstreperous and seems deeply unempathetic. Sometimes it's mean-spirited, but the above interactions were not particularly so - she just really doesn't understand why she should or shouldn't do any of these things and won't comply unless consequences are severe, like yelling. There's no such thing as doing something because it's standard or because we are the adults she is the child. I'm drained all the time from her behavior on top of my documented special needs child. The special needs child tries hard to change behaviors and actions, while this child won't acknowledge any behavior or change it. If anyone else is dealing or has dealt with something similar I'd love to hear it.

[Anonymous]

I’m sorry, OP. It sounds hard. I would get her evaluated and tell the evaluator in advance (without your daughter present) about the issues and her resistance to therapy. Once you get an actual dx (or not), and recommendations from the evaluator, you’ll have more to work with. Don’t operate on presumptions and armchair diagnoses. This may be simply behavioral, requiring different parenting approaches, and/or may be an actual dx requiring a different intervention. But until you do the eval, you’re just guessing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a dd who is 14 and an older child with autism. For a couple of years the working theory has been that the 14 year old is probably also on the spectrum but with less severity than older autistic child (who is not intellectually compromised but has hard time with most aspects of life).

Can anyone help me with an armchair diagnosis or suggestions to get her into therapy? She has been in therapy in the past but performs a charm offensive so therapists don't really know what she's like. She'll only discuss friends (spoiler alert: she doesn't have many) and never family. She won't go to family therapy no matter how much we try or incentives offered.

Here's a typical afternoon with her - she comes home and instantly starts asking whether I got her something she asked for. I asked her to restart the conversation by saying hello, how are you, before asking the question. She wouldn't do it.

As she is examining things she has just taken from the fridge, I ask her to close the door (a daily conversation). I need to explain why once again. She says if I'm worried about wasting electricity I should turn off the lights. I say I'm using the lights. She says what about the light in your room? I said yes you're right but that doesn't mean you shouldn't close the door to the fridge. All with the door still open. Then she says, don't you think you're being a hypocrite. I raise my voice and she finally closes door.

Then she touches on a sensitive subject to her older sibling, who asks her to stop. She keeps telling the story anyways. Spouse and I ask her to stop. She says it won't bother her and continues with the story. Older sibling is frustrated and leaves. She tells the whole story. We say, we can hear the story another time when she's not here but it's not ok to continue when asked not to. She says, I don't understand why it's a big deal. We explain why it's a BIG deal (it's related to a recent event that was traumatic for older sibling and also very saddening for us as parents). She seems to listen, then as she leaves the room says, I still don't understand why I can't talk about it. I told her that these constant interactions are all very draining for me and I wish she would talk to a therapist about it.

This is our life, day in and day out. It doesn't feel like normal teenager stuff, though admittedly our older child was not a "normal" teenager. She is obstreperous and seems deeply unempathetic. Sometimes it's mean-spirited, but the above interactions were not particularly so - she just really doesn't understand why she should or shouldn't do any of these things and won't comply unless consequences are severe, like yelling. There's no such thing as doing something because it's standard or because we are the adults she is the child. I'm drained all the time from her behavior on top of my documented special needs child. The special needs child tries hard to change behaviors and actions, while this child won't acknowledge any behavior or change it. If anyone else is dealing or has dealt with something similar I'd love to hear it.

Some of this is just a teenager challenging rules and living within some challenging family dynamics. It’s not easy to be the more functional child in these dynamics. Whatever you may think, your child has not received a diagnosis and nothing you wrote would make me jump to autism.

I understand that you want to raise a grounded socially aware child, but all of the interactions you laid out sound both sound normal and also miserable and exhausting for both of you.

Have you and your spouse tried parent training? I would suggest changing your approach.

[Anonymous]

Yeah I mean this respectfully because I understand you must have a lot on your plate and probably have a skewed sense of normal because of your eldest, but your interactions and negotiations with your kid seem exhausting and unnecessary. They don’t need you to re explain why the refrigerator door can’t stay open and for you to justify your usage of lights vs fridge staying open. I think some parent coaching to get you in a better mind frame and have a little more authority/confidence could be helpful.

[Anonymous]

I don’t believe that she needs the long winded repeated explanations about the fridge Spor and the traumatic event. You are rewarding her with attention when she does these things.

Next time she leaves the fridge door open, ignore it! Don’t even look at it. Keep chatting and leave the room if you need to.

[Anonymous]

Tell her leaving door open wears out refrigerator faster.

[Anonymous]

This sounds like a typical teenager testing boundaries and it sounds like you don't always give the appropriate response to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t believe that she needs the long winded repeated explanations about the fridge Spor and the traumatic event. You are rewarding her with attention when she does these things.

Next time she leaves the fridge door open, ignore it! Don’t even look at it. Keep chatting and leave the room if you need to.

This. Also, OP sounds like she amplifies her daughter's behavior by nagging and explaining everything. She needs to understand that OP and her husband are the authority in the house at face value without getting angry.

[Anonymous]

What are the actual consequences for this kid when she doesn’t do what you say? Honestly she just comes across to me as a kid who hasn’t be parented properly. All kids will push the limits. The problem is that you have no limits, just nag all day. You sound like a nice person but she doesn’t need a nice person, she needs a parent.

[Anonymous]

So my 12 year old DD pushes buttons and says mean things to her siblings (and sometimes peers) and gets argumentative and digs in. She has anxiety, ADHD and is extremely rigid (black and white thinking) which makes her therapist consider that she might be on tbe spectrum.

Medication has helped a lot with the reactivity and pushing buttons- it’s impulsive behavior and the mean things usually occur most when she is feeling anxiety strong emotion (like anxiety). The black and white thinking is sort of her baseline approach to things, but she can be flexible when she thinks things through.

She also didn’t initially tell her therapist any of this stuff - and sort of fooled her but not brining up the problems she is having. I now go in for 15 min alone with the therapist once per month during the session (with permission from my DD). I would be happy to also have her there, but I think she is embarrassed at some of her behavior so doesn’t want to be around when I describe it.

I’m not saying your daughter has the same issues mine does, but some of what you are describing sounds like rigidity to me - inability to see others perspective. It’s definitely a skill that can be practiced, regardless of a diagnosis, or if it’s typical teen behavior.

[Anonymous]

To me sounds like Audhd and a pda profile. Go to stixrud

[Anonymous]

TBH! At age 14, if she is exhausting you this way, it is surely impacting her at school and socially. IMO, I would get a psycho-ed eval for diagnosis and accommodations. She is old enough to participate in the process and read the report and understand what is going on - both in terms of strengths and weaknesses. And, she is old enough and cognitively able to recognize that we all have strengths and weaknesses, and that maybe she has a different/atypical way of communicating and responding and could benefit from explicitly learning more about social expectations/communication. IMO, therapy is not so helpful when there is not a clear foundation about what is going on.

[Anonymous]

OP she sounds like our ASD/ADHD PDA profile teen. You need to learn when and how to disengage. Also, teens with this profile can fool even the best therapists. BTDT multiple times.

[Anonymous]

Agree with everyone else. You need a two pronged approach. First, get this kid evaluated. Second, get some parent coaching and stop with this endless discussion and negotiation.

Things I would actually try.

Talk to my spouse and other kid and agree we will simply walk out of the room when she brings up this traumatic event. Silently walk out. If this is during dinner, take your plates with you to another room and go eat in there. You might need to each go to your respective bedrooms and lock the door and eat.

Stop coaching on the hello, how was your day stuff when she walks in the door. Just decide if you will answer her question or ignore her. And do that every single day.

When she opens the fridge door, walk out. Just walk away. If she leaves it open, close it a few minutes later.

It is time to stop this endless debate. And the only person whose behavior you can actually change is yours.

[Anonymous]

I really would caution against crowdsourcing a diagnosis. It sucks, but you have to pay for a formal diagnosis and someone who actually talks to and tests your kid. I talked to my child psychologist all the time about “what is normal team behavior” and what is a product of their narrow diversity and also what of any of it needs to be of concern. This is where a professionals matter.