Size & placement of regional magnet programs set to decimate non-host, non-rich schools

[Anonymous]

It appears that MCPS is planning on 60 out-of-bounds students per grade for each of the three core academic criteria-based programs (SMCS, IB, and humanities.) if they draw roughly equally from each school, that would be around 45-60 high-achieving kids per grade leaving each school, or roughly 10-15% of the most advanced kids in each grade, which is a very big number. (And if some of the kids at rich schools with strong local offerings opt out, it'll be an even larger share of the kids at the other schools who leave ). Schools who host one of those programs will "receive" 60 advanced and motivated kids from out of bounds in return, of course, but those who don't won't.

The richest schools may be able to handle losing that many motivated kids interested in advanced classes (although none of them will have to because they all get one or more of these programs anyway), but it will be a real blow to most ordinary schools which don't have huge numbers of kids taking advanced classes to begin with. Sure, they may have a few bright kids coming to whatever other programs they're hosting, at least at the start, but if those schools can't field a reasonable number of challenging classes for those kids, loving the arts (or whatever) isn't going to be enough for a kid to choose that school over one where they can take advanced classes.

The list of schools that look likely to be hit by this appear to be: Einstein, Northwood, Blake, Paint Branch, Woodward, Rockville, Magruder, Quince Orchard, Clarksburg, Damascus, and Northwest.

Basically, it seems to me that there are two pathways here: 1) almost half of MCPS schools are seriously harmed by losing a large chunk of top students to attractive academic programs at other schools; and/or 2) the regional pathways are such a disaster that no one wants to leave and so local schools are safe. (Or, frankly, it could be a combination of the two, which could be even worse for some schools-- if a program in your region is successful and draws top kids from your school, while the programs at your school are a flop and don't draw many kids in, you're even worse off.)

Am I wrong here, or is this what other folks think too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It appears that MCPS is planning on 60 out-of-bounds students per grade for each of the three core academic criteria-based programs (SMCS, IB, and humanities.) if they draw roughly equally from each school, that would be around 45-60 high-achieving kids per grade leaving each school, or roughly 10-15% of the most advanced kids in each grade, which is a very big number. (And if some of the kids at rich schools with strong local offerings opt out, it'll be an even larger share of the kids at the other schools who leave ). Schools who host one of those programs will "receive" 60 advanced and motivated kids from out of bounds in return, of course, but those who don't won't.

The richest schools may be able to handle losing that many motivated kids interested in advanced classes (although none of them will have to because they all get one or more of these programs anyway), but it will be a real blow to most ordinary schools which don't have huge numbers of kids taking advanced classes to begin with. Sure, they may have a few bright kids coming to whatever other programs they're hosting, at least at the start, but if those schools can't field a reasonable number of challenging classes for those kids, loving the arts (or whatever) isn't going to be enough for a kid to choose that school over one where they can take advanced classes.

The list of schools that look likely to be hit by this appear to be: Einstein, Northwood, Blake, Paint Branch, Woodward, Rockville, Magruder, Quince Orchard, Clarksburg, Damascus, and Northwest.

Basically, it seems to me that there are two pathways here: 1) almost half of MCPS schools are seriously harmed by losing a large chunk of top students to attractive academic programs at other schools; and/or 2) the regional pathways are such a disaster that no one wants to leave and so local schools are safe. (Or, frankly, it could be a combination of the two, which could be even worse for some schools-- if a program in your region is successful and draws top kids from your school, while the programs at your school are a flop and don't draw many kids in, you're even worse off.)

Am I wrong here, or is this what other folks think too?

Yes, lots of people have been sharing these concerns from the beginning. In a way, this has already been happening in the DCC with Kennedy losing students to the other DCC schools.

I don't know who the genius was in Central Office who thought to themselves "What Whitman HS really needs is a bunch more well resourced, highly motivated kids."

[Anonymous]

I do think that is precisely what will happen. MCPS insists it won't, but I don't see how this regional model won't result in a significant chunk of the motivated, academically gifted kids in many of the schools you mentioned leaving for greener pastures.

[Anonymous]

I mean, there’s a whole thread right now worrying that the regional magnets will be watered down because they will allegedly admit students by a lottery of only moderately qualified applicants: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/105/1317129.page

And yet this thread claims there will be a major brain drain from the other schools.

So both of these worries can’t be true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean, there’s a whole thread right now worrying that the regional magnets will be watered down because they will allegedly admit students by a lottery of only moderately qualified applicants: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/105/1317129.page

And yet this thread claims there will be a major brain drain from the other schools.

So both of these worries can’t be true.

Yes, both of these worries can be true. The magnet programs may not meet the expectations of folks who want programs for truly gifted students, and they also may result in large portions of the most motivated and well resourced students leaving higher poverty schools.

A large majority of MCPS students in will not graduate proficient in math and ELA. In many schools the percentage of kids that can meet basic standards for a magnet and for regular AP classes (much less an elite magnet program) is not very large. And of those, the ones that can get transportation from their parents to a school that is not their home school are likely to be disproportionately White and come from families with higher incomes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do think that is precisely what will happen. MCPS insists it won't, but I don't see how this regional model won't result in a significant chunk of the motivated, academically gifted kids in many of the schools you mentioned leaving for greener pastures.

I think they know this is what will happen otherwise they wouldn't be claiming the boundary study and the regional program model are "inextricably linked".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean, there’s a whole thread right now worrying that the regional magnets will be watered down because they will allegedly admit students by a lottery of only moderately qualified applicants: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/105/1317129.page

And yet this thread claims there will be a major brain drain from the other schools.

So both of these worries can’t be true.

No, they actually go hand in hand. If the regional programs were only enrolling the top 2-3% of kids, there would still be plenty of kids at home schools who are interested in and can succeed in advanced classes. But since they're set to instead enroll the top 10-15% of kids, that simultaneously leads both to a less rigorous experience in the magnet programs than there currently is, and a less rigorous experience at the home schools who have lost the top 10-15% of their students.

[Anonymous]

Why would any parent send their kids to a watered down “magnet”. Won’t happen. Look at what they tried to do the IB programs at Watkins mill and Kennedy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would any parent send their kids to a watered down “magnet”. Won’t happen. Look at what they tried to do the IB programs at Watkins mill and Kennedy.

They'll go if the host school offers better opportunities than the home school and they can swing the commute.

We are zoned for Einstein. I have hope that Einstein will be a good place for my DC, especially since it will be a relatively smaller school. DC is pretty average academically and will probably be well served with standard MCPS courses available at every high school. But BCC and Blair definitely offer a wider variety of courses, and there are public buses to both of these schools with stops near our home. Whitman would probably be too difficult, nor is it the environment I'd want for DC especially away from all their friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would any parent send their kids to a watered down “magnet”. Won’t happen. Look at what they tried to do the IB programs at Watkins mill and Kennedy.

Well now if you are zoned for WJ or Woodward and your kid is interested in IB, their only choice will be Kennedy. Nevermind that RM and BCC would both be closer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would any parent send their kids to a watered down “magnet”. Won’t happen. Look at what they tried to do the IB programs at Watkins mill and Kennedy.

They will if it the magnet is placed in a good school. And they will do it in large numbers.

For example: the region with WJ, Woodward (weak under the recommendation), Wheaton, Kennedy. Even STEM kids will be applying to WJ humanities magnet - why not, it will be by far the top school in the region.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would any parent send their kids to a watered down “magnet”. Won’t happen. Look at what they tried to do the IB programs at Watkins mill and Kennedy.

If the watered-down magnet offers much better classes than the home school does, then parents who can swing the logistics and have kids who want to get into selective colleges will almost feel like they have to send their kids to the magnets to get classes they can't get at the home school and have a peer group of academically focused and motivated kids.

[Anonymous]

I'm not understanding your point as this isn't something new and many kids lack the opportunities who don't get into these programs in the DCC and other areas. This isn't anything new but this new regional plan isn't going to help those kids and they will continue to go without and make due with what their schools have to offer. You are just realizing this now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would any parent send their kids to a watered down “magnet”. Won’t happen. Look at what they tried to do the IB programs at Watkins mill and Kennedy.

If the watered-down magnet offers much better classes than the home school does, then parents who can swing the logistics and have kids who want to get into selective colleges will almost feel like they have to send their kids to the magnets to get classes they can't get at the home school and have a peer group of academically focused and motivated kids.

How do you know they will be watered down?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would any parent send their kids to a watered down “magnet”. Won’t happen. Look at what they tried to do the IB programs at Watkins mill and Kennedy.

They will if it the magnet is placed in a good school. And they will do it in large numbers.

For example: the region with WJ, Woodward (weak under the recommendation), Wheaton, Kennedy. Even STEM kids will be applying to WJ humanities magnet - why not, it will be by far the top school in the region.

WJ, Woodward and Wheaton have or will have advanced classes. Kennedy will continue to have very little, but that's what they already have. As a STEM family, I have no interest in WJ or Woodward and we chose where we live as we wanted a different culture.