TT / 2T Definitions

[Anonymous]

Starting a new thread for this.

There seems to be a lot of uncertainty about which schools are "TT" versus "2T" versus neither, and I think that in general, since ultimately the use is up to every individual and since people are naturally going to tend to want to talk about the achievements of their own kids in the best possible light, we ought to adopt a less restrictive definition of TT rather than a more restrictive one.

I also think this ought to mostly be a function of admissions selectivity rather than exmissions, as most of the discussions here are about that - where to go, application questions, connected preschools, etc - and at any rate exmissions tend to be a lot noisier than applications.

The 5 K-12 schools basically everyone agrees are TT are HM, Dalton, Trinity, Brearley, and Collegiate. I think we can safely add Riverdale, Spence, and Chapin to that list based on how difficult they currently are to get in to. (I am not including Hunter or Regis since they're free, and in Regis' case not K-12)

Beyond that, some questions to consider:

- Are there any other schools that belong in that group selectivity-wise? For example I know that Saint Ann's has crazy good exmissions but I don't get the impression it's quite as much as a lift as the Manhattan schools to get in to.

- Should K-8 schools be graded on the same scale selectivity-wise as K-12 schools, or should they be graded relative to other K-8s? I would tend to favor the first approach - despite the fact that it would be a very short list - since people aren't always going to specify whether a school is K-8 or K-12.

- Where do we then draw the line for 2T? I think we probably ought to define it pretty expansively too, e.g. Nightingale, Friends, Fieldston, Trevor, CGPS, Browning, Avenues, Poly, Packer, UNIS, LREI, etc, along with most of the top K-8s, since again I think people are going to tend to want to use the most generous definition; basically, any school that gets enough applicants that they can turn away a significant number and you're not guaranteed a spot simply by being on grade level and paying full fare. There's obviously a pretty wide range of schools in that list, but I think you're going to have a very hard time defining a clear cutoff between 2T and 3T, and everybody is going to insist that their school is on the 2T side of that line; I've seen some people put Fieldston in 2T and I've seen others insist they don't even belong in 3T.

[Anonymous]

Step outside and take a deep breath. It really doesn’t matter.

[Anonymous]

Right answer.

[Anonymous]

OP may I ask what school you go to, values and background of your family? Just trying to understand what type of person cares this deeply about defining TT/2T schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Step outside and take a deep breath. It really doesn’t matter.

+1

[Anonymous]

I think people should use whatever terms they want; if it's psychologically important to you to know that the person saying their kid got into 3 TT schools didn't actually mean TT in the way you mean it then stop reading this stupid board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Starting a new thread for this.

There seems to be a lot of uncertainty about which schools are "TT" versus "2T" versus neither, and I think that in general, since ultimately the use is up to every individual and since people are naturally going to tend to want to talk about the achievements of their own kids in the best possible light, we ought to adopt a less restrictive definition of TT rather than a more restrictive one.

I also think this ought to mostly be a function of admissions selectivity rather than exmissions, as most of the discussions here are about that - where to go, application questions, connected preschools, etc - and at any rate exmissions tend to be a lot noisier than applications.

The 5 K-12 schools basically everyone agrees are TT are HM, Dalton, Trinity, Brearley, and Collegiate. I think we can safely add Riverdale, Spence, and Chapin to that list based on how difficult they currently are to get in to. (I am not including Hunter or Regis since they're free, and in Regis' case not K-12)

Beyond that, some questions to consider:

- Are there any other schools that belong in that group selectivity-wise? For example I know that Saint Ann's has crazy good exmissions but I don't get the impression it's quite as much as a lift as the Manhattan schools to get in to.

- Should K-8 schools be graded on the same scale selectivity-wise as K-12 schools, or should they be graded relative to other K-8s? I would tend to favor the first approach - despite the fact that it would be a very short list - since people aren't always going to specify whether a school is K-8 or K-12.

- Where do we then draw the line for 2T? I think we probably ought to define it pretty expansively too, e.g. Nightingale, Friends, Fieldston, Trevor, CGPS, Browning, Avenues, Poly, Packer, UNIS, LREI, etc, along with most of the top K-8s, since again I think people are going to tend to want to use the most generous definition; basically, any school that gets enough applicants that they can turn away a significant number and you're not guaranteed a spot simply by being on grade level and paying full fare. There's obviously a pretty wide range of schools in that list, but I think you're going to have a very hard time defining a clear cutoff between 2T and 3T, and everybody is going to insist that their school is on the 2T side of that line; I've seen some people put Fieldston in 2T and I've seen others insist they don't even belong in 3T.

Riverdale is not TT. There are 7 NYC TTs: Trinity, Dalton, HM, Collegiate, Brearley, Spence and Chapin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Riverdale is not TT. There are 7 NYC TTs: Trinity, Dalton, HM, Collegiate, Brearley, Spence and Chapin.

Just for that I hereby proclaim Nightingale be TT, and if you’re not careful I’ll add Trevor and Fieldston too.

[Anonymous]

I support OP’s inquiry. They jumped through hoops for years (PS applications, fundraisers, interviews) to get into K and then shell out 70k a year for the privilege. He or she deserves to know if that time and money got them a TT spot. And to rub it in the faces of their insufferable classmates’ parents who are certainly reading in this thread that their own school is third tier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Riverdale is not TT. There are 7 NYC TTs: Trinity, Dalton, HM, Collegiate, Brearley, Spence and Chapin.

Just for that I hereby proclaim Nightingale be TT, and if you’re not careful I’ll add Trevor and Fieldston too.

I actually like Nightingale better than Riverdale, so if we were gonna stretch to add an 8th (we shouldn't), that would be fine.

[Anonymous]

Riverdale is not TT. There are 7 NYC TTs: Trinity, Dalton, HM, Collegiate, Brearley, Spence and Chapin.


Not sure where the UB crowd evaporated to that a discussion of these designations is suddenly taboo.

Either way, Riverdale has certainly become quite a contender by boosting its academic standards and vastly improving its exmissions. This is information that many parents looking at independent schools want to know. So, whether it was considered 2T decades ago, it has certainly improved upon the metrics that most parents are interested in. But I am curious about why the original TT list remains so rigid and frozen in time, when all of these schools have updated curricula, new heads of school and admissions, and improved facilities. Things can, and often do, change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Riverdale is not TT. There are 7 NYC TTs: Trinity, Dalton, HM, Collegiate, Brearley, Spence and Chapin.

Not sure where the UB crowd evaporated to that a discussion of these designations is suddenly taboo.

Either way, Riverdale has certainly become quite a contender by boosting its academic standards and vastly improving its exmissions. This is information that many parents looking at independent schools want to know. So, whether it was considered 2T decades ago, it has certainly improved upon the metrics that most parents are interested in. But I am curious about why the original TT list remains so rigid and frozen in time, when all of these schools have updated curricula, new heads of school and admissions, and improved facilities. Things can, and often do, change.

Some of us are here. We're now old and experienced enough to know that it's a waste of time worrying about what is and is not "TT." Whet matter is where your child and your family feel comfortable and find a sense of community.

[Anonymous]

But that's BS too. "Fit" has become a pretext for "My DC didn't get into our top choice." Fit should have always been the goal, even amongst the T7. But sorry. It's Ok to say some schools are objectively better than others and why. And maybe the T7 in NYC is now the T10. I don't know. But since the price keeps going up, measuring these schools still seems worthwhile.

[Anonymous]

If TT is about bragging rights and social standing then it makes sense to define + enforce it scrupulously, based on how that school is perceived among the community whose opinions you care about. (hence the fight over Riverdale)

If TT is about college admissions then it's an open question whether + how much that has to do with the school itself rather than the kids who choose to go there, and it effectively becomes a test of how many rich/famous/connected kids you can recruit.

If TT is about "fit" then it's a meaningless distinction because there's no reason that the schools with the right "fit" for one particular type of kids should be considered better than any others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But that's BS too. "Fit" has become a pretext for "My DC didn't get into our top choice." Fit should have always been the goal, even amongst the T7. But sorry. It's Ok to say some schools are objectively better than others and why. And maybe the T7 in NYC is now the T10. I don't know. But since the price keeps going up, measuring these schools still seems worthwhile.

Exactly. Slower kids aren’t a good fit for the T7. Otherwise, you’ll find something you like if you’re an achiever and/or hard working. No one ambitious is choosing a 3T over a TT.