Is this normal teenage behavior?

[Anonymous]

My "typical" child, my 15 year old daughter is a mess. She is diagnosed with ADHD and anxiety, in therapy and medicated. She has zero skills, zero distress tolerance, she is unwilling to accept help or grow skills. She is cruel and hurtful towards me the MOMENT she does not get what she wants. I am working with a parent coach. I am not giving in, I am validating her emotions, and I know she will grow. Please give me some hopeful stories about your girls who were awful and said cruel things and then they get over this place of disregulation and they turn out okay, love you and don't look back at their childhood as a nightmare. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

My DD was like this, along with a few other issues. We did a full DBT program (DD individual therapy, group therapy, parent group) and it dramatically improved things. It’s a money and time investment, and you have to be willing to hear that you need to change so of your parenting skills, but we tried so. many. things. and this is what helped the most. A few years out, things are dramatically better than I could have imagined at that time. We do occasionally still have struggles, but we still intermittently work with the individual and parent therapists, so we have good support.

[Anonymous]

Not a daughter, but a son. It got far worse than what you are describing before it got better. But it did get better. He's now 23 and a total delight to be around, which until about two years ago was beyond my wildest dreams. He's behind his age group in terms of completing his education and getting started adulting. But, he's not sitting in my basement playing video games. He is doing everything he can to make up for lost time in terms of school, work and gaining the skills needed to be a successful adult.

I know people throw the term anxiety around a lot and assume people are using it in the pedestrian sense since most are. But those of us who have experienced having kids with real, debilitating, and all consuming anxiety have no idea how hard it is for them and also for us parents. I am glad you have a parenting coach that you find helpful. I've known others who went that route and also found it helpful. And, like with my son, it took until a bit after HS before things leveled out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not a daughter, but a son. It got far worse than what you are describing before it got better. But it did get better. He's now 23 and a total delight to be around, which until about two years ago was beyond my wildest dreams. He's behind his age group in terms of completing his education and getting started adulting. But, he's not sitting in my basement playing video games. He is doing everything he can to make up for lost time in terms of school, work and gaining the skills needed to be a successful adult.

I know people throw the term anxiety around a lot and assume people are using it in the pedestrian sense since most are. But those of us who have experienced having kids with real, debilitating, and all consuming anxiety have no idea how hard it is for them and also for us parents. I am glad you have a parenting coach that you find helpful. I've known others who went that route and also found it helpful. And, like with my son, it took until a bit after HS before things leveled out.

Thank you for sharing this. What helped level things out for your son? We have similar situation with a HS age child. It is significant and debilitating at times. Sometimes I wonder if they will ever be able to function as an adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not a daughter, but a son. It got far worse than what you are describing before it got better. But it did get better. He's now 23 and a total delight to be around, which until about two years ago was beyond my wildest dreams. He's behind his age group in terms of completing his education and getting started adulting. But, he's not sitting in my basement playing video games. He is doing everything he can to make up for lost time in terms of school, work and gaining the skills needed to be a successful adult.

I know people throw the term anxiety around a lot and assume people are using it in the pedestrian sense since most are. But those of us who have experienced having kids with real, debilitating, and all consuming anxiety have no idea how hard it is for them and also for us parents. I am glad you have a parenting coach that you find helpful. I've known others who went that route and also found it helpful. And, like with my son, it took until a bit after HS before things leveled out.

Thank you for sharing this. What helped level things out for your son? We have similar situation with a HS age child. It is significant and debilitating at times. Sometimes I wonder if they will ever be able to function as an adult.

PP here. We did a lot of things - there were hospitalizations, residential treatment, a million different medication cocktail trials . . . All were good investments even when they didn't work because they taught us something. But the most significant things were these.

Getting the HS diploma - grades be damned. Ds are just fine if that's what it takes.

Medication management - which was the hardest part because no one wants to prescribe stimulants to someone who is bipolar and/or has anxiety. But that was the biggest key to success.

The rest was setting clear expectations and never wavering. It's ok to have slip ups - that's different. These were on our list.
Self support is key. (he pays for everything except food, tuition, cell phone, which with a child that has mental health issues is a necessity so you can track them, and he lives at home with no rent to us and has been since HS. No allowance - which I am not opposed to, but in his case a hard line was necessary).
Making him work starting at age 16 - which took me doing the job applications and forcing the interviews until recently when he wanted a second job and he did it himself (serious shout out to all of us because this was amazing).
School. Despite D-ing out of HS, he is smart and clearly can train for something that will lead to self support. (He's in community college now with straight As and will get his associates this year then transfer to a four year school).
Participating in the household by doing chores and taking care of the dogs.
Taking medication and attending doctor's appointments. (sometimes I need to help despite his age because it's hard for him to accept he needs it which makes him contrary).
At one point where violence became an issue, not allowing him to live with us - hardest parenting decision ever but it only took a week and a half for him to decide to do what it took to live at home.

It also took a lot of parental support for the difficult things - like hanging on the phone for long periods leading up to a stressful event, role playing and the like. (Luckily I don't work shift work and could be present because not everyone could do what I had to do).
And we also did not allow him to drive for many years, which meant taking public transportation, walking, riding a bike, using Uber at his own cost and getting family members to agree to give you rides, which meant you have to treat everyone well enough so that they are willing to give you rides.
We also don't allow any drugs, marijuana or smoking in the house. Drugs are out. Marijuana and smoking have clear lines in the sand (we don't allow it in the house but don't forbid it because we won't win). We do pay for smoking cessation aids every time it's necessary because for some reason he keeps going back.

If I think of anything else I will post. It was a terribly difficult journey and if anything we experienced can help others get ideas of how to get through their difficult times, I am happy to share.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD was like this, along with a few other issues. We did a full DBT program (DD individual therapy, group therapy, parent group) and it dramatically improved things. It’s a money and time investment, and you have to be willing to hear that you need to change so of your parenting skills, but we tried so. many. things. and this is what helped the most. A few years out, things are dramatically better than I could have imagined at that time. We do occasionally still have struggles, but we still intermittently work with the individual and parent therapists, so we have good support.

Very similar story. DBT...our daughter is not fully invested in it yet but we as parents have been doing DBT and hopeful daughter will begin to embrace it. Therapy before was a gripe session, now there is more accountability and the parenting stuff has been hard in terms of dropping the rope and changing how we parent. Letting lesser things go and validating...it is HARD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD was like this, along with a few other issues. We did a full DBT program (DD individual therapy, group therapy, parent group) and it dramatically improved things. It’s a money and time investment, and you have to be willing to hear that you need to change so of your parenting skills, but we tried so. many. things. and this is what helped the most. A few years out, things are dramatically better than I could have imagined at that time. We do occasionally still have struggles, but we still intermittently work with the individual and parent therapists, so we have good support.

Can you share where you did the DBT or the dr?

[Anonymous]

In the meantime have her tested for anemia at the very least

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not a daughter, but a son. It got far worse than what you are describing before it got better. But it did get better. He's now 23 and a total delight to be around, which until about two years ago was beyond my wildest dreams. He's behind his age group in terms of completing his education and getting started adulting. But, he's not sitting in my basement playing video games. He is doing everything he can to make up for lost time in terms of school, work and gaining the skills needed to be a successful adult.

I know people throw the term anxiety around a lot and assume people are using it in the pedestrian sense since most are. But those of us who have experienced having kids with real, debilitating, and all consuming anxiety have no idea how hard it is for them and also for us parents. I am glad you have a parenting coach that you find helpful. I've known others who went that route and also found it helpful. And, like with my son, it took until a bit after HS before things leveled out.

Thank you for sharing this. What helped level things out for your son? We have similar situation with a HS age child. It is significant and debilitating at times. Sometimes I wonder if they will ever be able to function as an adult.

PP here. We did a lot of things - there were hospitalizations, residential treatment, a million different medication cocktail trials . . . All were good investments even when they didn't work because they taught us something. But the most significant things were these.

Getting the HS diploma - grades be damned. Ds are just fine if that's what it takes.

Medication management - which was the hardest part because no one wants to prescribe stimulants to someone who is bipolar and/or has anxiety. But that was the biggest key to success.

The rest was setting clear expectations and never wavering. It's ok to have slip ups - that's different. These were on our list.
Self support is key. (he pays for everything except food, tuition, cell phone, which with a child that has mental health issues is a necessity so you can track them, and he lives at home with no rent to us and has been since HS. No allowance - which I am not opposed to, but in his case a hard line was necessary).
Making him work starting at age 16 - which took me doing the job applications and forcing the interviews until recently when he wanted a second job and he did it himself (serious shout out to all of us because this was amazing).
School. Despite D-ing out of HS, he is smart and clearly can train for something that will lead to self support. (He's in community college now with straight As and will get his associates this year then transfer to a four year school).
Participating in the household by doing chores and taking care of the dogs.
Taking medication and attending doctor's appointments. (sometimes I need to help despite his age because it's hard for him to accept he needs it which makes him contrary).
At one point where violence became an issue, not allowing him to live with us - hardest parenting decision ever but it only took a week and a half for him to decide to do what it took to live at home.

It also took a lot of parental support for the difficult things - like hanging on the phone for long periods leading up to a stressful event, role playing and the like. (Luckily I don't work shift work and could be present because not everyone could do what I had to do).
And we also did not allow him to drive for many years, which meant taking public transportation, walking, riding a bike, using Uber at his own cost and getting family members to agree to give you rides, which meant you have to treat everyone well enough so that they are willing to give you rides.
We also don't allow any drugs, marijuana or smoking in the house. Drugs are out. Marijuana and smoking have clear lines in the sand (we don't allow it in the house but don't forbid it because we won't win). We do pay for smoking cessation aids every time it's necessary because for some reason he keeps going back.

If I think of anything else I will post. It was a terribly difficult journey and if anything we experienced can help others get ideas of how to get through their difficult times, I am happy to share.

Love your take on HS D's get degrees. Absolutely. People do not realize how much better it is to get the HS diploma even with a poor GPA. Community College is always there for any age. Getting a GED is a pain.

Great parenting all around. I know it was hard. So hard.

[Anonymous]

Several years ahead of you with a daughter who fell apart in college in many ways - not in terms of academics. She did get therapy and medication and has a strong career, married and two teens. She still would have swells of emotion between the anxiousness of life and was never the typical profile of bipolar. It was not until recently that a new psychiatrist finally upped a very low dose of lithium that we have seen a leveling out of emotions. Just to say
if other meds do not work in the future it may
be the stabilizer needed.

And I agree that the struggles of the older teen and early 20s were very hard on us parents and her sister. In time roles were reversed and the problem child has been a great support to the younger in helping her through an unexpected life challenge. So hang in there!!!

[Anonymous]

I’m going through this now with my 17 year old senior. We are just starting to change how we interact with him so this is new!

He has ASD and ADHD. absolutely will not accept help and resents any offers to help. He become angry when he doesn’t get his way. For anything that he has detihe should have (not material things, more like privileges or grades). Blames everyone and everything but zero insight on what he could have done differently or can do differently in the future.

He wanted all supports dropped for his senior year such as tutoring and executive functioning coaches and therapy. In his world, it was people telling him what to do and making him feel stupid. So, we did. And his grades reflect this new reality. Right now, his anger is that we have conditions on what we need to see before we agree to fund his college. He wants us to change our mind and we are holding firm which leads to more anger. We are also working with a parenting coach and I just started seeing my own therapist. Here is what I’m slowly (and a little sadly) coming to the realization: I can’t make him happy. It’s not my job and if he chooses to dwell in anger, he’s old enough to suffer the natural consequences- whether it’s deferring a year, losing friends, or just staying stuck. I am always here if he wants help or support of any kind. He knows that and it’s his choice not to use those supports. Second, I will validate his anger, sadness but will not offer solutions or platitudes to make him gain perspective on a situation. That’s his job and my job is to just “sit on the bench” with him. Third-I can validate his emotions but I will also draw boundaries. If he perservates or stays in anger, I will tell him I understand his feelings but will no longer engage. And finally, we have a very firm boundary about how he talks to us. If he is yelling, cursing or being disrespectful he gets an immediate consequence of his phone is turned off for 24 hours. I don’t explain why, I don’t give him a rationale or try to persuade him that being abusive and mean is hurtful.
Basically, it’s more of the parents coming to grips with the limits of our ability to make our kids develop coping strategies once they become older and to do what we can to lovingly but firmly establish our own boundaries and let them suffer the natural consequences. I highly recommend individual therapy for you because it is so hard. Ive been in hyperaware mode for so long and keep hoping that the sheer force of my will, love and support will get through to him that dropping the rope is terrifying for me.

[Anonymous]

I had the most compliant, no-special needs child until 15. All the sh*t hit the fan. 15 sucks.

[Anonymous]

You DD sounds exactly like my DS at 15. What worked:
-neurofeedback- he had insomnia or sleep problems, which didn’t help his irritability. The neuro completely resolved sleep problems, it helped 50% with the irritability/anxiety. It didn’t do much for the ADHD, but overall it was very helpful.
- therapy. It didn’t help until we found the right therapist who DS resonated with.
- medication. We must have tried a dozen different med combos until we found the right mix.
- switching schools. He now attends a smaller school that is much more low-pressure than his previous school. We went from an unweighted 3.14 gpa to a 3.89. I don’t think the work he’s doing now is easier (he’s in more honors classes than before), but he doesn’t get so anxious that he just shuts down and avoids the work like he did before.

He’s a junior now and we’re still not certain how college will go. Instead of targeting higher ranked schools, we’re looking at schools that have small classes and are known for being supportive vs. competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m going through this now with my 17 year old senior. We are just starting to change how we interact with him so this is new!

He has ASD and ADHD. absolutely will not accept help and resents any offers to help. He become angry when he doesn’t get his way. For anything that he has detihe should have (not material things, more like privileges or grades). Blames everyone and everything but zero insight on what he could have done differently or can do differently in the future.

He wanted all supports dropped for his senior year such as tutoring and executive functioning coaches and therapy. In his world, it was people telling him what to do and making him feel stupid. So, we did. And his grades reflect this new reality. Right now, his anger is that we have conditions on what we need to see before we agree to fund his college. He wants us to change our mind and we are holding firm which leads to more anger. We are also working with a parenting coach and I just started seeing my own therapist. Here is what I’m slowly (and a little sadly) coming to the realization: I can’t make him happy. It’s not my job and if he chooses to dwell in anger, he’s old enough to suffer the natural consequences- whether it’s deferring a year, losing friends, or just staying stuck. I am always here if he wants help or support of any kind. He knows that and it’s his choice not to use those supports. Second, I will validate his anger, sadness but will not offer solutions or platitudes to make him gain perspective on a situation. That’s his job and my job is to just “sit on the bench” with him. Third-I can validate his emotions but I will also draw boundaries. If he perservates or stays in anger, I will tell him I understand his feelings but will no longer engage. And finally, we have a very firm boundary about how he talks to us. If he is yelling, cursing or being disrespectful he gets an immediate consequence of his phone is turned off for 24 hours. I don’t explain why, I don’t give him a rationale or try to persuade him that being abusive and mean is hurtful.
Basically, it’s more of the parents coming to grips with the limits of our ability to make our kids develop coping strategies once they become older and to do what we can to lovingly but firmly establish our own boundaries and let them suffer the natural consequences. I highly recommend individual therapy for you because it is so hard. Ive been in hyperaware mode for so long and keep hoping that the sheer force of my will, love and support will get through to him that dropping the rope is terrifying for me.

This approach of understanding you can’t make him happy is so important. So many parents bend over backwards in attempts to appease their defiant kid and it backfires.