How tough exactly are top universities in the UK and Canada relative to U.S. colleges?

[Anonymous]

I've heard Oxford, Cambridge, University of Toronto, Waterloo are tough academically...classes are large and there is no handholding. Exactly how tough are we talking about in relative terms to American colleges? Going through the college process now for the first time with eldest kid and have no basis for comparison, but we have heard recent graduates from our school who moved on to schools with "tough academics" reputation (U Chicago, Cornell, Princeton, Hopkins, Swarthmore, etc.) come back to say it's not that bad and that Yale, Brown, Wesleyan, etc. are easier than their junior/senior years at our high school. We're at a non-DMV private often ranked in top 40 in the country with our own tough academics reputation.

Asking because both DC (11th and 9th grade) expressed interest to go overseas and we wonder if we should take their wishes seriously, if they could be culture shocked by the lack of support. Before I get flamed, want to add DH and I are both from public schools/working class background and both DCs went to public schools from K through 7th/5th grade with large class sizes and did very well. Both are very independent and self-initiators (never had tutors, self-motivated to do well at school and joined ECs of their own choices, etc.). We are open to them going overseas and be challenged but don't want them to drown.

[Anonymous]

Tough is in the eye of the beholder. It doesn’t have to be Oxbridge.

I have experience with a kid in Bristol and St Andrews and one in a top 20 US school.

The grading in the UK is 100x more difficult. It seems like everyone has an A at my kid’s US school. In the UK to get the equivalent of a 90% is almost impossible.

There is no handholding. You are treated as an adult. Support is there if you search it yourself. They have tutorials in the UK and you end up getting more more in depth on each subject. Most humanities programs are very heavy on Essays with some or no testing. These are not your run of mill Essays…..these are long essays, citations, individual thought, graduate level essays when compared to the US.

With all of that said all 3 kids succeeded. My St Andrews kid spent a semester at Berkeley (that was a pain since he has to get approval for just 1 semester). He said the grading was ridiculously easier at Berkeley. Not even a comparison.

IN the uk you will typically have just one final or sometimes 2 assignments in the semester. Some classes is just one final and that is it. None of the homework/testing/quizzes, etc you find in US colleges.

SO yes, tougher from that point of view. At the end of the day, if you kid is bright he will be fine. My Bristol kid was lazy, but smart….and he survived fine with a 2:1

[Anonymous]

Extra circular activities are also much lower key in the UK.

The semi pro level college sports system in the US simply doesn’t exist there. Pretty much all activities are open enrolment and for all abilities.

The infrastructure reflects that, most universities just have the one sports center with a gym and a few multi purpose sports fields and halls.

[Anonymous]

There are 3 shorter terms per year. If one falls behind academically, could be hard to catch up.

[Anonymous]

Students need to figure out how to navigate the university bureaucracy and meet various administrative deadlines on their own.

[Anonymous]

Trninty Dublin not too difficult but it's not OxCam obviously

[Anonymous]

They're not harder academically!

But practical things, looking after oneself, not having counseling or support, can come as a shock to students who were used to it in high school, or to students who suddenly develop a need for support while in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They're not harder academically!

But practical things, looking after oneself, not having counseling or support, can come as a shock to students who were used to it in high school, or to students who suddenly develop a need for support while in college.

The harder part is the grading and expectation. Everyone gets A in the US.

[Anonymous]

I think you need a very recent (post-pandemic) or current account from students who have studied at UK or Canadian schools, because grade inflation has really accelerated in recent years at the "tougher" elite schools in the US. Long story, but I have a lot of first hand experience with this. Getting A's was not this easy at the same colleges just 5-6 years ago. I can imagine the same inflation acceleration might be happening abroad as well, so I would not necessarily trust experiences from years ago.

[Anonymous]

If you do a google search "is grade inflation a problem at UK universities" you will find the answer you seek in various UK publications. (Spoiler: the answer is "yes.")

[Anonymous]

Have a kid at the dual W&M/StA program.
Kid has A’s when she at W&M…..struggles to get a 15-16/20 while at StA…..same kid….grading there is MUCH MUCH tougher….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you do a google search "is grade inflation a problem at UK universities" you will find the answer you seek in various UK publications. (Spoiler: the answer is "yes.")

But I should add, it doesn't seem quite as bad as what is going on here and many schools seem to want to combat it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you do a google search "is grade inflation a problem at UK universities" you will find the answer you seek in various UK publications. (Spoiler: the answer is "yes.")

And yet, it is not even close to being the Free As at American schools….my daughter is a perfect example …..W&M showers these kids with As….if you consider an A in StA 90%, she has never had one A there….not even close….she has had plenty of 70%…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you need a very recent (post-pandemic) or current account from students who have studied at UK or Canadian schools, because grade inflation has really accelerated in recent years at the "tougher" elite schools in the US. Long story, but I have a lot of first hand experience with this. Getting A's was not this easy at the same colleges just 5-6 years ago. I can imagine the same inflation acceleration might be happening abroad as well, so I would not necessarily trust experiences from years ago.

Which previously tougher elite schools in the U.S. now have easier grading post-pandemic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tough is in the eye of the beholder. It doesn’t have to be Oxbridge.

I have experience with a kid in Bristol and St Andrews and one in a top 20 US school.

The grading in the UK is 100x more difficult. It seems like everyone has an A at my kid’s US school. In the UK to get the equivalent of a 90% is almost impossible.

There is no handholding. You are treated as an adult. Support is there if you search it yourself. They have tutorials in the UK and you end up getting more more in depth on each subject. Most humanities programs are very heavy on Essays with some or no testing. These are not your run of mill Essays…..these are long essays, citations, individual thought, graduate level essays when compared to the US.

With all of that said all 3 kids succeeded. My St Andrews kid spent a semester at Berkeley (that was a pain since he has to get approval for just 1 semester). He said the grading was ridiculously easier at Berkeley. Not even a comparison.

IN the uk you will typically have just one final or sometimes 2 assignments in the semester. Some classes is just one final and that is it. None of the homework/testing/quizzes, etc you find in US colleges.

SO yes, tougher from that point of view. At the end of the day, if you kid is bright he will be fine. My Bristol kid was lazy, but smart….and he survived fine with a 2:1

a high 2:1 or a low 2:1?