2 Year Old Dragged into Water by Gator at Disney Resort

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the Graves did anything negligent or wrong. But I don't think Disney did either.

Even though we want to, sometimes there really is just no one to blame. Prayers to the family.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess they should have other signs too. In front of all the vegetation warning of water moccasins and rattlesnakes. Bats at night?

It is easy to lay blame. It is easy to say "If they'd only posted a sign". Random, senseless events add disorder to a world we try to make well ordered and predictable and therefore presumably more secure. But face it, had there been a sign, chances are better than even the kid would have been right where he was. Not because of neglect, dad would have diligently looked to see if there were a gator there. And it is very very unlikely that he would have seen a gator lurking in that vegetation swimming toward shore at dusk.

Had there been a sign about gators, people would still have let their small children near the water? You have a poor opinion of the intelligence of rest of the country and a poor opinion of parents' desire to protect their children. I'm sure there still would be boneheads feeding alligators, but at least the parents of small children would have been warned.

There WAS a warning.
It said "No Swimming."
It doesn't matter if the "no swimming" is because of potential amoebas or because they are worried about drowning or because of alligators or if it's because Disney is just mean and doesn't want people to enjoy the lake.

It's private property. The owners say "no swimming" and people need to follow the rules. Period.

They were not swimming. If the sign said "do not enter the water" the risk may have been clearer. "No swimming" for most implies there's no
Lifeguard, so do not swin. Not "do not enter the water" because there's are dangers lurking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess they should have other signs too. In front of all the vegetation warning of water moccasins and rattlesnakes. Bats at night?

It is easy to lay blame. It is easy to say "If they'd only posted a sign". Random, senseless events add disorder to a world we try to make well ordered and predictable and therefore presumably more secure. But face it, had there been a sign, chances are better than even the kid would have been right where he was. Not because of neglect, dad would have diligently looked to see if there were a gator there. And it is very very unlikely that he would have seen a gator lurking in that vegetation swimming toward shore at dusk.

Had there been a sign about gators, people would still have let their small children near the water? You have a poor opinion of the intelligence of rest of the country and a poor opinion of parents' desire to protect their children. I'm sure there still would be boneheads feeding alligators, but at least the parents of small children would have been warned.

There WAS a warning.
It said "No Swimming."
It doesn't matter if the "no swimming" is because of potential amoebas or because they are worried about drowning or because of alligators or if it's because Disney is just mean and doesn't want people to enjoy the lake.

It's private property. The owners say "no swimming" and people need to follow the rules. Period.

They were not swimming. If the sign said "do not enter the water" the risk may have been clearer. "No swimming" for most implies there's no
Lifeguard, so do not swin. Not "do not enter the water" because there's are dangers lurking.

From my experience when I lived in Florida, it isnt necessary to have a lifeguard. Condo pools, smaller hotel pools--many have no lifeguard and are all "swim at your own risk". So no lifeguard doesnt mean no swim...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess they should have other signs too. In front of all the vegetation warning of water moccasins and rattlesnakes. Bats at night?

It is easy to lay blame. It is easy to say "If they'd only posted a sign". Random, senseless events add disorder to a world we try to make well ordered and predictable and therefore presumably more secure. But face it, had there been a sign, chances are better than even the kid would have been right where he was. Not because of neglect, dad would have diligently looked to see if there were a gator there. And it is very very unlikely that he would have seen a gator lurking in that vegetation swimming toward shore at dusk.

Had there been a sign about gators, people would still have let their small children near the water? You have a poor opinion of the intelligence of rest of the country and a poor opinion of parents' desire to protect their children. I'm sure there still would be boneheads feeding alligators, but at least the parents of small children would have been warned.

There WAS a warning.
It said "No Swimming."
It doesn't matter if the "no swimming" is because of potential amoebas or because they are worried about drowning or because of alligators or if it's because Disney is just mean and doesn't want people to enjoy the lake.

It's private property. The owners say "no swimming" and people need to follow the rules. Period.

They were not swimming. If the sign said "do not enter the water" the risk may have been clearer. "No swimming" for most implies there's no
Lifeguard, so do not swin. Not "do not enter the water" because there's are dangers lurking.

Semantics. The two year old would not have to be doing freestyle laps for it to be considered "swimming."
It's like when kids try to antagonize their siblings by getting centimeters from them and saying "I'm no touching you!" That was the game these parents were playing "We're not swimming!" and they lost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't blame the parents at all, but every time I see that water I'm just amazed people could look at it and think it was safe to play in. Snakes, gators, bugs, etc. Maybe Disney also assumed that everyone understood you don't go in brackish freshwater ponds in Florida, particularly at night? I accept now that many people don't know this but until so many of you said you didn't I thought it was common knowledge, like don't stand under a tree or hold metal in a lightning storm. The no swimming signs if they're updated at all will need to list many reasons besides just gators why you shouldn't be in that water and I just have to think Disney until now held all those to be self evident.

Nope. It was a calculated decision by disney to forego posting warning signs.

I posted earlier a link to disney's signs on the beaches at their private island in castaway cay/bahamas. The signs are big, and they include a laundry list of dangerous sea life (sharks, sea lice, etc.). They are posted by every entrance/path to the beach.

If they are warning people about sharks---which is common knowledge---then why not gators? Particularly since nobody would expect to see a gator in a man made resort area or amusement park.

An island in the Bahamas is not the same as a brackish trash pond in Florida. Give me a break. You're trying to compare two disparate environments.

You are both correct and clueless.

Everybody on the planet realizes there are sharks in the ocean...all oceans...and especially in the Bahamas.

Very few people would imagine that man made lagoons by man made beaches at disney resorts where people are encouraged to gather have gators lurking nearby. That child could have been standing on the shoreline without touching the water and a gator could have snatched him...like in the link posted earlier where a father had to run and scoop up his kid on dry land near that lagoon when a gator quickly came out of nowhere.

Once disney posts real warning signs, nobody will set foot on that beach again.

Being utterly clueless doesn't't stop you, does it? The kid got attacked because he was in the water, he would not have been equally at trick on the sand, o

More than a "very few people" expect alligators to be in ponds in Florida.

Reading this thread makes me realize why there are so many deaths in the national park each year. People really think they have no responsibility for their own welfare.

Exactly. So many clueless idiots who are shocked that wild animals are...in the wild.

I would agree with you if in fact the resort was in the wild. It is not the wild. It's a fake lake created by Disney. There would be no alligators there if it was in the wild.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
They were not swimming. If the sign said "do not enter the water" the risk may have been clearer. "No swimming" for most implies there's no
Lifeguard, so do not swin. Not "do not enter the water" because there's are dangers lurking.

When there's no lifeguard, the sign says "Swim at your own risk" or "No lifeguard on duty".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't blame the parents at all, but every time I see that water I'm just amazed people could look at it and think it was safe to play in. Snakes, gators, bugs, etc. Maybe Disney also assumed that everyone understood you don't go in brackish freshwater ponds in Florida, particularly at night? I accept now that many people don't know this but until so many of you said you didn't I thought it was common knowledge, like don't stand under a tree or hold metal in a lightning storm. The no swimming signs if they're updated at all will need to list many reasons besides just gators why you shouldn't be in that water and I just have to think Disney until now held all those to be self evident.

Nope. It was a calculated decision by disney to forego posting warning signs.

I posted earlier a link to disney's signs on the beaches at their private island in castaway cay/bahamas. The signs are big, and they include a laundry list of dangerous sea life (sharks, sea lice, etc.). They are posted by every entrance/path to the beach.

If they are warning people about sharks---which is common knowledge---then why not gators? Particularly since nobody would expect to see a gator in a man made resort area or amusement park.

An island in the Bahamas is not the same as a brackish trash pond in Florida. Give me a break. You're trying to compare two disparate environments.

You are both correct and clueless.

Everybody on the planet realizes there are sharks in the ocean...all oceans...and especially in the Bahamas.

Very few people would imagine that man made lagoons by man made beaches at disney resorts where people are encouraged to gather have gators lurking nearby. That child could have been standing on the shoreline without touching the water and a gator could have snatched him...like in the link posted earlier where a father had to run and scoop up his kid on dry land near that lagoon when a gator quickly came out of nowhere.

Once disney posts real warning signs, nobody will set foot on that beach again.

Being utterly clueless doesn't't stop you, does it? The kid got attacked because he was in the water, he would not have been equally at trick on the sand, o

More than a "very few people" expect alligators to be in ponds in Florida.

Reading this thread makes me realize why there are so many deaths in the national park each year. People really think they have no responsibility for their own welfare.

Exactly. So many clueless idiots who are shocked that wild animals are...in the wild.

I would agree with you if in fact the resort was in the wild. It is not the wild. It's a fake lake created by Disney. There would be no alligators there if it was in the wild.

I mean there WOULD be alligators there if in the wild.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They were not swimming. If the sign said "do not enter the water" the risk may have been clearer. "No swimming" for most implies there's no
Lifeguard, so do not swin. Not "do not enter the water" because there's are dangers lurking.

When there's no lifeguard, the sign says "Swim at your own risk" or "No lifeguard on duty".

It depends on where you are from. And these people are not from Florida.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess they should have other signs too. In front of all the vegetation warning of water moccasins and rattlesnakes. Bats at night?

It is easy to lay blame. It is easy to say "If they'd only posted a sign". Random, senseless events add disorder to a world we try to make well ordered and predictable and therefore presumably more secure. But face it, had there been a sign, chances are better than even the kid would have been right where he was. Not because of neglect, dad would have diligently looked to see if there were a gator there. And it is very very unlikely that he would have seen a gator lurking in that vegetation swimming toward shore at dusk.

Had there been a sign about gators, people would still have let their small children near the water? You have a poor opinion of the intelligence of rest of the country and a poor opinion of parents' desire to protect their children. I'm sure there still would be boneheads feeding alligators, but at least the parents of small children would have been warned.

There WAS a warning.
It said "No Swimming."
It doesn't matter if the "no swimming" is because of potential amoebas or because they are worried about drowning or because of alligators or if it's because Disney is just mean and doesn't want people to enjoy the lake.

It's private property. The owners say "no swimming" and people need to follow the rules. Period.

Well, okay, but seriously. These people are paying to enjoy the accommodations of a resort. You're not supposed to go in the pools at night, but that doesn't mean that a reasonable person would assume that they have electrified the pool so that anyone who touches the water is electrocuted, or that you'll be gunned down by security for trespassing. I mean, it's nice to let your guests know when the penalty for violating the rules is death, versus getting yelled at.

[Anonymous]

This is a man made Pond within a few feet of fire pits, lawn chairs, pools, slides. The family in no way suspected there were alligators in the pond.
Deeper we may have been attacked if he was just on the sand. The alligator was very aggressive and looking for dinner.
There is no to blame the family for this tragic accident. They are going through the unthinkable. I'm sure they have a lifetime of regret ahead.

[Anonymous]

^ "deeper we" should read "the child"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess they should have other signs too. In front of all the vegetation warning of water moccasins and rattlesnakes. Bats at night?

It is easy to lay blame. It is easy to say "If they'd only posted a sign". Random, senseless events add disorder to a world we try to make well ordered and predictable and therefore presumably more secure. But face it, had there been a sign, chances are better than even the kid would have been right where he was. Not because of neglect, dad would have diligently looked to see if there were a gator there. And it is very very unlikely that he would have seen a gator lurking in that vegetation swimming toward shore at dusk.

Had there been a sign about gators, people would still have let their small children near the water? You have a poor opinion of the intelligence of rest of the country and a poor opinion of parents' desire to protect their children. I'm sure there still would be boneheads feeding alligators, but at least the parents of small children would have been warned.

There WAS a warning.
It said "No Swimming."
It doesn't matter if the "no swimming" is because of potential amoebas or because they are worried about drowning or because of alligators or if it's because Disney is just mean and doesn't want people to enjoy the lake.

It's private property. The owners say "no swimming" and people need to follow the rules. Period.

Well, okay, but seriously. These people are paying to enjoy the accommodations of a resort. You're not supposed to go in the pools at night, but that doesn't mean that a reasonable person would assume that they have electrified the pool so that anyone who touches the water is electrocuted, or that you'll be gunned down by security for trespassing. I mean, it's nice to let your guests know when the penalty for violating the rules is death, versus getting yelled at.

Exactly-"paying to enjoy the accommodations of a resort." The resort made it quite clear that swimming/wading in the lagoons was NOT an accommodation. They apparently thought the rules didn't apply to THEM. Their child paid a steep price for his parents sense of entitlement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a man made Pond within a few feet of fire pits, lawn chairs, pools, slides. The family in no way suspected there were alligators in the pond.
Deeper we may have been attacked if he was just on the sand. The alligator was very aggressive and looking for dinner.
There is no to blame the family for this tragic accident. They are going through the unthinkable. I'm sure they have a lifetime of regret ahead.

It's possible, yes, but much less likely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry--that worry is also filled with brain eating bacteria. The parents were already playing with fire letting their child play in the water.

How would they know this? Plus, wading is not swimming. Anyone would have done the same thing. Of course there should be warning signs about gators. That poor, poor family and that poor child. I can't even think about it.

Ignorance isn't an excuse for doing something dangerous.

Wading in ankle deep water is not dangerous when you are from most parts of the world.

+1. Here's the photo a PP linked to, showing a little boy at the exact spot where Lane Graves was attacked, about a half-hour before that happened. Most people would not consider this to be a dangerous activity.

Yeah, and I see a sign to the left - clear as it could be - posting "No swimming or wading or whatever". See that sign to the left!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess they should have other signs too. In front of all the vegetation warning of water moccasins and rattlesnakes. Bats at night?

It is easy to lay blame. It is easy to say "If they'd only posted a sign". Random, senseless events add disorder to a world we try to make well ordered and predictable and therefore presumably more secure. But face it, had there been a sign, chances are better than even the kid would have been right where he was. Not because of neglect, dad would have diligently looked to see if there were a gator there. And it is very very unlikely that he would have seen a gator lurking in that vegetation swimming toward shore at dusk.

Had there been a sign about gators, people would still have let their small children near the water? You have a poor opinion of the intelligence of rest of the country and a poor opinion of parents' desire to protect their children. I'm sure there still would be boneheads feeding alligators, but at least the parents of small children would have been warned.

There WAS a warning.
It said "No Swimming."
It doesn't matter if the "no swimming" is because of potential amoebas or because they are worried about drowning or because of alligators or if it's because Disney is just mean and doesn't want people to enjoy the lake.

It's private property. The owners say "no swimming" and people need to follow the rules. Period.

Well, okay, but seriously. These people are paying to enjoy the accommodations of a resort. You're not supposed to go in the pools at night, but that doesn't mean that a reasonable person would assume that they have electrified the pool so that anyone who touches the water is electrocuted, or that you'll be gunned down by security for trespassing. I mean, it's nice to let your guests know when the penalty for violating the rules is death, versus getting yelled at.

Exactly-"paying to enjoy the accommodations of a resort." The resort made it quite clear that swimming/wading in the lagoons was NOT an accommodation. They apparently thought the rules didn't apply to THEM. Their child paid a steep price for his parents sense of entitlement.

The sign didn't specify wading, did it? Or being near the edge of the water? The alligator didn't even need to be in the water at all to grab a child close to the edge. You sound almost gleeful that these parents lost their child.