FCPS Boundary Review - New Maps

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS needs to get rid of immersion and IB. They need to focus on actual proven pedagogy. Same languages at every HS, no language transfers.

Hard disagree. We love our immersion program. Learning a second language is very helpful for brain development. I’m not going to bother stating research about this because I’m guessing you hate science as well so you can do it yourself if you want.

Why would you want the world to be so cookie cutter and factory like? Everyone must do the same thing at the same time. Go to China if you want that.

I don't question that learning a second language is a good thing. However, these special program do require FCPS to spend additional funds on staff and it does skew our school boundaries.

Right now, funds are tight. This is a "nice to have" program. Not a necessary one. There are better places to spend our funds.

Not really. FLES does require more teachers. Immersion doesn’t. The gen ed kids in immersion have to have a teacher and they make up a regular class size. Those children would need a teacher even if they weren’t in immersion. It does require selective hiring as the teachers have to speak the target language, but the teachers of immersion get paid the same as other teachers.

That is not a great arguement.

I don't think you understand how it affects staffing.

Just like having an AAP center, the number of teachers has to be divided up separately.

Here is a simplistic explanation: If you have 500 kids and the staffing calculation is 25 students per teacher, then you need 20 teachers.
However, if you have to separate some of those kids for immersion, then you cannot divide them evenly.

Throw in different enrollment levels for each grade, and it makes it even more difficult.
This is why, in AAP schools that some of the same grade levels have an extreme disparity in classes within a grade level. In that situation, the principal may take higher achieving gen ed and place them in AAP. I don't think you can do the same in an immersion program.

It is more expensive.

Right back at you dude. Take away immersion and those kids at the neighborhood school that used to be in immersion need a teacher. A couple of kindergarten kids coming from immersion schools back to their neighborhood one school throws the kindergarten classes into needing three teachers instead of just the 2 classes they were going to have. And suddenly you are needing more gen ed teachers than you did. It is just playing numbers and teachers will still be needed. You aren’t taking int9 account staffing ratios. Immersion starts in younger grades than AAP and because ratios are lower it is easier to need another teacher and classroom when you return the gen ed students to their schools. The kids still need teachers.

AAP in higher grades has higher teacher student rations so this doesn’t happen as much.

Just because you don’t like choice or are angry that your kid didn’t get in does not mean the program is wasteful.

Wow. A little defensive there. Have you ever worked in a school and seen how the staffing works?

And, by the way, do they not have additional materials? Training? And, what about the staff at Gatehouse who run the program? Do you think a lottery does not require time from staff? Funds?

And, I did not try to get my child in the program. So, it is not sour grapes.

Funny thing yes I work in another district in a lottery based program. And yes the kids I teach if they didn’t go to a lottery school would still need to be taught AND yes before I taught in a lottery program every year our K team would struggle with the idea that they may be destaffed because of low numbers or welcome a new teammate in October if the numbers were high. I’m very familiar.

And yes we use the same manuals other teachers do but they get ours in the target language because that is how manufacturers make them. The manuals don’t cost more and we would still need them if we taught in English.

Maybe the computer program they use for the lottery has a fee. I dunno.


What about your experience with this?

[Anonymous]

PP lottery program teacher here. I also get paid the same whether I am in immersion or English based. There is no difference. The pay scale is the pay scale.
And my motivation for correcting you is based upon what I know is good for brain development AND because you are spreading bad information with your posts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS needs to get rid of immersion and IB. They need to focus on actual proven pedagogy. Same languages at every HS, no language transfers.

Hard disagree. We love our immersion program. Learning a second language is very helpful for brain development. I’m not going to bother stating research about this because I’m guessing you hate science as well so you can do it yourself if you want.

Why would you want the world to be so cookie cutter and factory like? Everyone must do the same thing at the same time. Go to China if you want that.

then anyone who wants the program should get it. It shouldn’t be only for the lucky ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My other take away is the concern over FLES. FLES is a waste of time and money. The students don’t learn anything in the class.Tank the program and save money. Add more language immersion programs if you really want to introduce more kids to a language early on. There are wait lists for Spanish, French, and German so there is demand. But FLES is not nearly enough to introduce kids to a language.

Agreed. My kid was in one of those in her old FCPS ES and she didn't learn much of anything. It was a specials class she did once a week. You can't learn a foreign language in a 40-minute lesson every seven days. We moved to a different ES without the foreign language option and didn't miss it at all. That many special ed kids having to move or facing disruptions is a much more serious issue, IMHO.

That is a somewhat useless program. "Nice to have," I guess.

I think McElveen pushed this program the last time he was on the School Board.

I was a DOD teacher overseas. Elementary kids had the Host Nation teacher twice a week. Culture/Language. If the kids lived on the economy (in the local country setting) they learned the language from their host nation playmates. The kids who lived in military housing--never learned it unless Mom happened to be a native speaker.
It made good sense to have this program there since the kids were livng in the country--but they still did not learn the language. It makes no sense here.

In most foreign countries, kids have English instruction every day starting at an early age (in Germany, it was 2nd or 3rd grade). Every. day. That's the only way to learn. FLES is useless. They cover the same five things every year. My kids came away from ES knowing how to say five things in Spanish. They learned more from Spanish-speaking classmates than from the teacher.

+1
FLES is the biggest waste of time. My kids had it for one hour a week. They would come home with worksheets they had no idea how to read. I always thought, if they would eliminate this wasted hour, they'd have more time for the actual core subjects. It's one of those things they do because it "sounds" good. The reality is, no one is learning a foreign language this way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what I think: they will hardly change the maps we have already seen other than fixing whatever obvious mistakes were pointed out. This is why they don't care that there is a round of meetings in September. They were just telling us the original maps were very rough drafts because they were tired of hearing from people freaking out about them. They do. not. care. about our input despite what they are saying.

I figured they’d front load the meetings with the pyramids that have minimal recommended changes. So it’s surprising to see West Springfield HS with one of the early slots when Thru has already announced they’re going to explore different options for addressing capacity, since the HVES split feeder was challenged. What is the point of addressing that community without options to discuss beforehand?

It’s obvious that they recognized the tight timeline for meeting with every pyramid, coupled with scheduling challenges with reserving meeting space. They’ve been chewing on data crunching all summer. It took months to filter and publish feedback. Does anyone think there will be any meaningful changes from the first set of meetings before the new drafts are released less than two weeks later. It’s a check mark next to the 8130 Policy to alleviate some school board members “concern” with the process.

West Springfield doesn't have any meetings scheduled yet.

That early spot on September 16 is for West Potomac NOT West Springfield

FCPS appears to be avoiding meeting with the West Springfield pyramid. In spite of WSHS having some fairly significant changes proposed, FCPS has not held a single meeting with the community, not even the school board rep holding small community meetings.

The only pyramids with scheduled meetings are Justice, West Potomac and Oakton.

Do any of those pyramids have anything more than minor tweeks?

There was a proposal earlier this year to move part of Hollin Meadows/Sandburg/West Potomac to Riverside/Whitman/Mount Vernon to “fix” the current situation where Whitman MS lies outside its attendance area. The parents have complained and Mateo Dunne has told them he supports them.

A big focus of Thru’s proposals was to eliminate attendance islands and situations where schools lie outside their attendance areas, but they’ve gotten a lot of pushback. Ricardy Anderson has objected to the Thru proposal to redistrict Bailey’s Upper ES (which currently lies within the Sleepy Hollow ES boundary) and the Timber Lane families have objected to getting moved from McLean to Falls Church to eliminate an attendance island.

If they toss out the proposal to change the Whitman boundaries, their rationale for these other changes also goes out the window. They’ve been told repeatedly that most parents view eliminating attendance islands and split feeders as a low priority.

Some of us have been saying since the start of this nonsense that families don’t want their own kids moved. Some jerks are okay with other people’s kids being moved, of course, But most people just don’t want that hit to their own kid’s psychological health.

The school board has already done immense damage to its own brand by engaging in this, and they’ll no doubt do it again in a few years. I guess we get what we deserve.

And some jerks are okay with other people's kids dealing with multi-split feeders and crazy long bus rids for years and years so long as the problem doesn't get addressed while their kids are in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My other take away is the concern over FLES. FLES is a waste of time and money. The students don’t learn anything in the class.Tank the program and save money. Add more language immersion programs if you really want to introduce more kids to a language early on. There are wait lists for Spanish, French, and German so there is demand. But FLES is not nearly enough to introduce kids to a language.

Agreed. My kid was in one of those in her old FCPS ES and she didn't learn much of anything. It was a specials class she did once a week. You can't learn a foreign language in a 40-minute lesson every seven days. We moved to a different ES without the foreign language option and didn't miss it at all. That many special ed kids having to move or facing disruptions is a much more serious issue, IMHO.

That is a somewhat useless program. "Nice to have," I guess.

I think McElveen pushed this program the last time he was on the School Board.

I was a DOD teacher overseas. Elementary kids had the Host Nation teacher twice a week. Culture/Language. If the kids lived on the economy (in the local country setting) they learned the language from their host nation playmates. The kids who lived in military housing--never learned it unless Mom happened to be a native speaker.
It made good sense to have this program there since the kids were livng in the country--but they still did not learn the language. It makes no sense here.

In most foreign countries, kids have English instruction every day starting at an early age (in Germany, it was 2nd or 3rd grade). Every. day. That's the only way to learn. FLES is useless. They cover the same five things every year. My kids came away from ES knowing how to say five things in Spanish. They learned more from Spanish-speaking classmates than from the teacher.

+1
FLES is the biggest waste of time. My kids had it for one hour a week. They would come home with worksheets they had no idea how to read. I always thought, if they would eliminate this wasted hour, they'd have more time for the actual core subjects. It's one of those things they do because it "sounds" good. The reality is, no one is learning a foreign language this way.

+1 They'd learn more from an app/website.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My other take away is the concern over FLES. FLES is a waste of time and money. The students don’t learn anything in the class.Tank the program and save money. Add more language immersion programs if you really want to introduce more kids to a language early on. There are wait lists for Spanish, French, and German so there is demand. But FLES is not nearly enough to introduce kids to a language.

Agreed. My kid was in one of those in her old FCPS ES and she didn't learn much of anything. It was a specials class she did once a week. You can't learn a foreign language in a 40-minute lesson every seven days. We moved to a different ES without the foreign language option and didn't miss it at all. That many special ed kids having to move or facing disruptions is a much more serious issue, IMHO.

That is a somewhat useless program. "Nice to have," I guess.

I think McElveen pushed this program the last time he was on the School Board.

I was a DOD teacher overseas. Elementary kids had the Host Nation teacher twice a week. Culture/Language. If the kids lived on the economy (in the local country setting) they learned the language from their host nation playmates. The kids who lived in military housing--never learned it unless Mom happened to be a native speaker.
It made good sense to have this program there since the kids were livng in the country--but they still did not learn the language. It makes no sense here.

In most foreign countries, kids have English instruction every day starting at an early age (in Germany, it was 2nd or 3rd grade). Every. day. That's the only way to learn. FLES is useless. They cover the same five things every year. My kids came away from ES knowing how to say five things in Spanish. They learned more from Spanish-speaking classmates than from the teacher.

+1
FLES is the biggest waste of time. My kids had it for one hour a week. They would come home with worksheets they had no idea how to read. I always thought, if they would eliminate this wasted hour, they'd have more time for the actual core subjects. It's one of those things they do because it "sounds" good. The reality is, no one is learning a foreign language this way.

+1 Some of the best comments of the day here.

[Anonymous]

Our school is down iin enrollment. We lost some great teachers bc/ of it. We could use some more diddos

[Anonymous]

Soooo....Sangster split feeder? Looking at a map, seems like all of Sansgter should go to WSHS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My other take away is the concern over FLES. FLES is a waste of time and money. The students don’t learn anything in the class.Tank the program and save money. Add more language immersion programs if you really want to introduce more kids to a language early on. There are wait lists for Spanish, French, and German so there is demand. But FLES is not nearly enough to introduce kids to a language.

Agreed. My kid was in one of those in her old FCPS ES and she didn't learn much of anything. It was a specials class she did once a week. You can't learn a foreign language in a 40-minute lesson every seven days. We moved to a different ES without the foreign language option and didn't miss it at all. That many special ed kids having to move or facing disruptions is a much more serious issue, IMHO.

That is a somewhat useless program. "Nice to have," I guess.

I think McElveen pushed this program the last time he was on the School Board.

I was a DOD teacher overseas. Elementary kids had the Host Nation teacher twice a week. Culture/Language. If the kids lived on the economy (in the local country setting) they learned the language from their host nation playmates. The kids who lived in military housing--never learned it unless Mom happened to be a native speaker.
It made good sense to have this program there since the kids were livng in the country--but they still did not learn the language. It makes no sense here.

In most foreign countries, kids have English instruction every day starting at an early age (in Germany, it was 2nd or 3rd grade). Every. day. That's the only way to learn. FLES is useless. They cover the same five things every year. My kids came away from ES knowing how to say five things in Spanish. They learned more from Spanish-speaking classmates than from the teacher.

+1
FLES is the biggest waste of time. My kids had it for one hour a week. They would come home with worksheets they had no idea how to read. I always thought, if they would eliminate this wasted hour, they'd have more time for the actual core subjects. It's one of those things they do because it "sounds" good. The reality is, no one is learning a foreign language this way.

Strongly agree that FLES is a waste of time and many kids hate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Soooo....Sangster split feeder? Looking at a map, seems like all of Sansgter should go to WSHS

They should also go to South County

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Soooo....Sangster split feeder? Looking at a map, seems like all of Sansgter should go to WSHS

Depending on neighborhood I see why it’s tricky. We are HV slated for SC.

They said HV split feeder is a mistake so I’m curious if they forget it or move the entirety of HV to…..?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Soooo....Sangster split feeder? Looking at a map, seems like all of Sansgter should go to WSHS

But there's so space at WSHS. Shouldn't they go to LBSS?

[Anonymous]

Back to the topic: has everyone contacted SB to protest meetings in Sept but no new boundary maps until October? And extending timeline to incorporate the new high school?