Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Gaza Strip is only about 5 miles wide. Not very fertile for farmland. It’s the worst piece of land (the deserts and kibbutz by Gaza aren’t that great either which is probably why Israel put the Bedouins there) but Hamas were able to urbanize it and use tunnels for imports since there is a sea blockade, international sanctions, and they can’t build ports.

Hamas with no resource or money built some better infrastructure in Gaza than in rural Southern Israel

What does a sea blockade have to do with tunnels? Do they go to Italy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so- there are lunatics on the left.

There are far more racists who say they feel for the Palestinians but "jewish lives are sacred" and these people dont even realize that this is a racist thing to say. Herzl himself regarded the zionist project as a colonial project, you cannot consider yourself truly German and also indigenous to a Middle East your ancestors fled during the reign of Tiberius . These european jews felt that they were being forced out of Europe, so that whole argument falls apart. I agree with Miriam Margolyes's statement. The actions of Israelis- all of the ones who are jewish agree that not one loaf of bread should enter Gaza, 69 percent of Israelis/30 percent are Arab Israelis/ agree with a Middle Ages style blockade- dont jibe with the judaism that I have encountered in my life with its emphasis on empathy and healing the world.

Herzl was an extremist. Actually, many Jews were opposed to him in Europe and didn’t feel forced out of Europe in the 1800s and felt his idea of leaving Europe for Palestine was anti Semitic. They felt culturally and linguistically European and that going to create a colonial settlement in the Middle East would be doing what the anti Semites want.

His movement didn’t gain traction till after WW2/ the Holocaust . That’s when most Jews finally saw the need for Israel , but initially Jews were opposed to Herzls idea about creating an Israel in the Holy Land. They thought Jews were better off in every Middle Eastern country instead of just one .

Interesting. I've always thought the Zionist claim on Palestine due to being "the true indigenous people," based on having ancestors who lived there 2,000 years ago, was incredibly weak. If I were to demand some of "my" ancestral land in Ireland back because Oliver Cromwell stole it almost 400 years ago, I don't think I'd get very far.

The “Zionist” (a term that is incredibly anti-Semitic) claim is not that our right to Israel comes from anyone who lived there 2000 years ago.

Our claim is that the Jewish people have a history of residence in the area that is currently considered to be Israel (as well as the West Bank and Gaza) that stretches back thousands of years. Additionally, outside of periods where the land was under the control of invading nations (Romans, Turks, British, and most recently the Palestinians), the Jewish people have been the governing body of the land. They have a very strong claim, which is why they are recognized as the leaders of modern Israel, not Hamas.

Zionism is an acquisitive, expansionist, imperialist, racist, selfish, colonial, and genocidal ideology. Judaism is a religion. Stop trying to hijack the term "antisemitism" to justify the evil and supremacist philosophy of Zionism. That is in itself antisemitic. Judaism is not Zionism, and antisemitism is not anti-Zionism. You stain Judaism when you associate it with Zionism.

MANY people, including today's Palestinians, have a history of residence in what is currently considered to be Israel. Every one of us has a history of residence in Africa, which is where our species originated. Does that mean we can take over Ethiopia and evict the current indigenous people? Many of us have a history of residence in what is now Israel, as our ancestors lived in that land on their journey out of Africa. It was the first land traversed by ancient humans as they exited Africa. UN Resolution 181 was a terrible mistake. It should have been mitigated by UN Resolution 194, but Zionists, true to their overweening cultural narcissism, believe they can pick and choose which international laws suit them.

The land currently called Israel has been continuously inhabited by humans for possibly more than 100,000 years. It was certainly inhabited tens of thousands of years before Judaism was even invented. It has been conquered and re-conquered repeatedly. Why should one group that lived there 2,000 years ago and then left and mingled with other populations suddenly be given the region? If we were to apply that precedent the world over, there would be absolute chaos.

Do you ever stop to think of the rights of Palestinians, or do you consider them so ethnically inferior that they can simply be evicted or exterminated for the convenience of Zionists? Do you want to murder them all so you can build new settlements in Gaza or the West Bank before their bodies are cold? Many Palestinians are the descendants of people who lived in the region millennia before Judaism was invented. Some are descendants of Jews and had ancestors that converted to Islam or Christianity. In what world should THESE people suddenly lose their rights to invading hordes who had been absent for thousands of years and were as much native to Poland or Russia as to Palestine? During the Nakba, thousands of Palestinians were murdered, raped, and had their land and belongings stolen by Zionist invaders, and about three-quarters of a million of them were evicted from their homes, driven across borders, and murdered if they tried to revisit their homes. This is an absolutely despicable blot on human history. Israel should be doing what Germany does. It should admit it conducted genocide during the Nakba and is continuing to do so now and then redress the atrocities of its past. That is the way forward for all of us as we collectively come to terms with our primitive and bloodthirsty history and attempt to reinvent ourselves as ethical and equitable.

There is breathtaking irony in your attempts to weaponize "antisemitism" to allow the genocide of indigenous Palestinians. Breathtaking.

First, it is clear you do not understand the history of Israel.

Certainly there have been many different populations that called Israel home - the Egyptians, Romans, Turks, British, and Palestinians have all, at different times, emigrated into Israel, however the one constant over thousands of years has been that Jewish people. Unlike these invaders, who were historically drawn by the regions’ economic and environmental prosperity and the Jewish people’s hospitality, Jewish people have been consistently present in the region, and considered to be the sole native population, up until the last decade or so in which Iran and Palestinian Allie’s have spread the lie that Jews only entered Israel in the 1940s. This is not true, the Jewish identify was the primary, dominant culture in the region going back to thousands of years before the birth of Jesus, and were never fully removed from the area, as other cultures invaded, faded, were replaced, and shifted.

Of course I consider the right of Palestinians. As does Israel. Many Palestinians live in Israel with the same rights as any other Israeli, serve in the IDF, and support the current mission. The removal of Hamas is in the best interest of all innocent Palestinians. If you support Palestinians and Palestine, you should be strongly supporting Israel in its current mission, as their intentions and the intentions of innocent Palestinians are the same.

What many are misrepresenting as supporting Palestinians is actually supporting Hamas - calling for a ceasefire before Hamas is removed from power over the Palestinian people, calling for the reimplementation of the previous corrupt Humanitarian aid program so Hamas can continue to siphon off aid and sell it to support their war plans, etc… None of that is moving towards a better world where the Palestinian people. The reality you people refuse to accept is that the Palestinian people are far better off right now then they were on 10/6, and the reason for that is solely because Israel has intervened and is currently hard at work removing their oppressive Hamas overlords.

No one considers Jews the sole native population of the region. That’s your own personal wet dream.

Different poster. It's in the bible. Once again every has different standards for Jews than other minority groups.

Who cares about what’s in the Bible?

There is also copious archeological evidence.

Everyone loves ranting about indigenous peoples, especially from their living rooms, built on indigenous land. Except, when the indigenous people are Jews.

I can't believe I am engaging again, but these claims overlook the key fact that the genetic markers that tie Jews to the region ALSO tie the Palestinians. They are both descended from the ancient Canaanites. I guess you think that all those who follow Islam are outsiders to the region? but this is just not true.

All of the ancient graveyards in Palestine Bury toward Jerusalem not Mecca which means they were Jewish till fairly recently in history . Israel even destroys these graveyards because I guess destroying Jewish graves is just what you do when you’re a Jewish state. Centuries of Ottoman Muslim and British Christian rulers didn’t desecrate Jewish graves but the Jewish state does

Hamas didn’t destroy churches in Gaza, IDF did.

Under Hamas rule, the number of Christians in Gaza has dropped by 99%.

99% of everyone in Gaza was originally from cities in Israel and pushed out to Gaza . Gaza is a refugee camp. Less than 2% of the Gazans are true blue native Gazans. The true blue native Gazans are the most opposed to Hamas because they aren’t from refugee family forcibly removed in 1948 from Israel. The most native Gazans are from the city of Rafah. This is the city that Israel told all the Gazans to seek refuge in from bombing because they knew they were most opposed to Hamas. Now, Israel is bombing it because they don’t want to say it but they believe the Saudi intel that Sinwar used a tunnel to go to Egypt

The Gaza Strip is only about 5 miles wide. Not very fertile for farmland. It’s the worst piece of land (the deserts and kibbutz by Gaza aren’t that great either which is probably why Israel put the Bedouins there) but Hamas were able to urbanize it and use tunnels for imports since there is a sea blockade, international sanctions, and they can’t build ports.

Hamas with no resource or money built some better infrastructure in Gaza than in rural Southern Israel

BS. As one example, they destroyed what the Israelis left behind in 2005 when they disengaged. What a freaking waste.

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna9331863

Palestinians looted dozens of greenhouses on Tuesday, walking off with irrigation hoses, water pumps and plastic sheeting in a blow to fledgling efforts to reconstruct the Gaza Strip.

American Jewish donors had bought more than 3,000 greenhouses from Israeli settlers in Gaza for $14 million last month and transferred them to the Palestinian Authority.

[Anonymous]

And all they built with all that aid were terror tunnels while they leave their citizens as human shields. You can tell who the good guys are when the Israeli army protects their people in shelters, while the Hamas hides in shelters and lets their people suffer.

Sad state of affairs when you know Hamas will care less about protecting their own civilians than you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:saying the quiet part out loud

Saudis hate Iran. They are aligned with the West, which includes Israel. Most of the Gulf is. Iran's only ride or dies in the region are Syria and Lebanon, Qatar (sort of) and of course Palestine. Oh, and within these and Egypt, a whole bunch of terror organizations. Interesting bunch these.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't have patience for terrorism, so that's where I draw the line. So far the only acts of terrorism I have seen are on the part of Palestinians, PLO onwards. I have no doubt Israel has, does and will act in some terrible manners but acts of terrorism differentiate Palestinians from all the rest of the at times terrible peoples if the world.

That’s because you swallowed the hasbara line that any acts of dissent by the Palestinians are terrorism. Smacked in the face the settler who came to pogrom your village and kill your family? You’re a terrorist.

Yeah, sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so- there are lunatics on the left.

There are far more racists who say they feel for the Palestinians but "jewish lives are sacred" and these people dont even realize that this is a racist thing to say. Herzl himself regarded the zionist project as a colonial project, you cannot consider yourself truly German and also indigenous to a Middle East your ancestors fled during the reign of Tiberius . These european jews felt that they were being forced out of Europe, so that whole argument falls apart. I agree with Miriam Margolyes's statement. The actions of Israelis- all of the ones who are jewish agree that not one loaf of bread should enter Gaza, 69 percent of Israelis/30 percent are Arab Israelis/ agree with a Middle Ages style blockade- dont jibe with the judaism that I have encountered in my life with its emphasis on empathy and healing the world.

Herzl was an extremist. Actually, many Jews were opposed to him in Europe and didn’t feel forced out of Europe in the 1800s and felt his idea of leaving Europe for Palestine was anti Semitic. They felt culturally and linguistically European and that going to create a colonial settlement in the Middle East would be doing what the anti Semites want.

His movement didn’t gain traction till after WW2/ the Holocaust . That’s when most Jews finally saw the need for Israel , but initially Jews were opposed to Herzls idea about creating an Israel in the Holy Land. They thought Jews were better off in every Middle Eastern country instead of just one .

Interesting. I've always thought the Zionist claim on Palestine due to being "the true indigenous people," based on having ancestors who lived there 2,000 years ago, was incredibly weak. If I were to demand some of "my" ancestral land in Ireland back because Oliver Cromwell stole it almost 400 years ago, I don't think I'd get very far.

The “Zionist” (a term that is incredibly anti-Semitic) claim is not that our right to Israel comes from anyone who lived there 2000 years ago.

Our claim is that the Jewish people have a history of residence in the area that is currently considered to be Israel (as well as the West Bank and Gaza) that stretches back thousands of years. Additionally, outside of periods where the land was under the control of invading nations (Romans, Turks, British, and most recently the Palestinians), the Jewish people have been the governing body of the land. They have a very strong claim, which is why they are recognized as the leaders of modern Israel, not Hamas.

Zionism is an acquisitive, expansionist, imperialist, racist, selfish, colonial, and genocidal ideology. Judaism is a religion. Stop trying to hijack the term "antisemitism" to justify the evil and supremacist philosophy of Zionism. That is in itself antisemitic. Judaism is not Zionism, and antisemitism is not anti-Zionism. You stain Judaism when you associate it with Zionism.

MANY people, including today's Palestinians, have a history of residence in what is currently considered to be Israel. Every one of us has a history of residence in Africa, which is where our species originated. Does that mean we can take over Ethiopia and evict the current indigenous people? Many of us have a history of residence in what is now Israel, as our ancestors lived in that land on their journey out of Africa. It was the first land traversed by ancient humans as they exited Africa. UN Resolution 181 was a terrible mistake. It should have been mitigated by UN Resolution 194, but Zionists, true to their overweening cultural narcissism, believe they can pick and choose which international laws suit them.

The land currently called Israel has been continuously inhabited by humans for possibly more than 100,000 years. It was certainly inhabited tens of thousands of years before Judaism was even invented. It has been conquered and re-conquered repeatedly. Why should one group that lived there 2,000 years ago and then left and mingled with other populations suddenly be given the region? If we were to apply that precedent the world over, there would be absolute chaos.

Do you ever stop to think of the rights of Palestinians, or do you consider them so ethnically inferior that they can simply be evicted or exterminated for the convenience of Zionists? Do you want to murder them all so you can build new settlements in Gaza or the West Bank before their bodies are cold? Many Palestinians are the descendants of people who lived in the region millennia before Judaism was invented. Some are descendants of Jews and had ancestors that converted to Islam or Christianity. In what world should THESE people suddenly lose their rights to invading hordes who had been absent for thousands of years and were as much native to Poland or Russia as to Palestine? During the Nakba, thousands of Palestinians were murdered, raped, and had their land and belongings stolen by Zionist invaders, and about three-quarters of a million of them were evicted from their homes, driven across borders, and murdered if they tried to revisit their homes. This is an absolutely despicable blot on human history. Israel should be doing what Germany does. It should admit it conducted genocide during the Nakba and is continuing to do so now and then redress the atrocities of its past. That is the way forward for all of us as we collectively come to terms with our primitive and bloodthirsty history and attempt to reinvent ourselves as ethical and equitable.

There is breathtaking irony in your attempts to weaponize "antisemitism" to allow the genocide of indigenous Palestinians. Breathtaking.

First, it is clear you do not understand the history of Israel.

Certainly there have been many different populations that called Israel home - the Egyptians, Romans, Turks, British, and Palestinians have all, at different times, emigrated into Israel, however the one constant over thousands of years has been that Jewish people. Unlike these invaders, who were historically drawn by the regions’ economic and environmental prosperity and the Jewish people’s hospitality, Jewish people have been consistently present in the region, and considered to be the sole native population, up until the last decade or so in which Iran and Palestinian Allie’s have spread the lie that Jews only entered Israel in the 1940s. This is not true, the Jewish identify was the primary, dominant culture in the region going back to thousands of years before the birth of Jesus, and were never fully removed from the area, as other cultures invaded, faded, were replaced, and shifted.

Of course I consider the right of Palestinians. As does Israel. Many Palestinians live in Israel with the same rights as any other Israeli, serve in the IDF, and support the current mission. The removal of Hamas is in the best interest of all innocent Palestinians. If you support Palestinians and Palestine, you should be strongly supporting Israel in its current mission, as their intentions and the intentions of innocent Palestinians are the same.

What many are misrepresenting as supporting Palestinians is actually supporting Hamas - calling for a ceasefire before Hamas is removed from power over the Palestinian people, calling for the reimplementation of the previous corrupt Humanitarian aid program so Hamas can continue to siphon off aid and sell it to support their war plans, etc… None of that is moving towards a better world where the Palestinian people. The reality you people refuse to accept is that the Palestinian people are far better off right now then they were on 10/6, and the reason for that is solely because Israel has intervened and is currently hard at work removing their oppressive Hamas overlords.

No one considers Jews the sole native population of the region. That’s your own personal wet dream.

Really? Tell that to the history books. Jewish people have had a long history in the region that goes back thousands of years without cessation, having lived in the region through many changes in the political leadership of the region. This was acknowledged back in the 1940s, and is one of the common lies of Hamas supporters, who are more then happy to ignore this history and pretend that Jewish people just suddenly appeared in Israel in the 1940s! Yes, there has been a large number of Jewish people who have since immigrated to Israel - because unlike Christianity and Islam which are dominant religions in dozens of nations, Judaism has one single nation that it holds on to precariously - but that does not take away the well established history of Jewish influence in the region.

It is also skewed by straight up anti-semites to imply that anyone who brings up this history is relying solely on the Torah and references to a Jewish state to establish this history, which is simply untrue. You see it all over this thread “OMG it’s the God literally gave Israel to the Jews poster!” Recognize that phrase? It’s basically thrown at every Israel supporter in this thread.

Yes, references in the Torah - as well as the Bible and other religious texts - certainly can help identify certain historical context to Israel - it is unarguable that there was a nation located generally in the region of Jerusalem that was politically and culturally Jewish that dates back thousands of years. We can also say, with relative certainty, that despite the region falling under Roman rule, at the time of Jesus there remained a significant Jewish population that held considerable social and economic power in the region.

But those notes have nothing to do with the decades of research demonstrating that, unlike the Hamas supporters would like you to think, Jews never all left Israel and have consistently remained a notable cultural group located within the area that comprises modern Israel, without the long period of exile that these folks Want you to imagine.

Don’t want to take my word for it?

https://bje.org.au/knowledge-centre/israel/history/historical-presence/

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/28/opinion/jewish-history-israel.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Gaza Strip is only about 5 miles wide. Not very fertile for farmland. It’s the worst piece of land (the deserts and kibbutz by Gaza aren’t that great either which is probably why Israel put the Bedouins there) but Hamas were able to urbanize it and use tunnels for imports since there is a sea blockade, international sanctions, and they can’t build ports.

Hamas with no resource or money built some better infrastructure in Gaza than in rural Southern Israel

What does a sea blockade have to do with tunnels? Do they go to Italy?

Bless your heart.

No, but they go to Egypt to get supplies that come from Italy . If all the US ports were closed, the stores would be empty within weeks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And all they built with all that aid were terror tunnels while they leave their citizens as human shields. You can tell who the good guys are when the Israeli army protects their people in shelters, while the Hamas hides in shelters and lets their people suffer.

Sad state of affairs when you know Hamas will care less about protecting their own civilians than you do.

You can tell who the slow ones are. They didn’t built tunnels because they wanted to. They did it because they had to.

Otherwise, there would be no supplies. Israel has blocked everything from makeup, insulin, to chocolate or desserts into Gaza. They have them on what’s called a Starvation+ diet. Many Gazan kids have never known what a full belly feels like even before this war.

Is it all Israel’s fault? No, Hamas and their wealth grubbing leadership in Qatar are also largely to blame. But that’s exactly why 10/7 happened. Sinwar was able to lead a January 6th esque rebellion by telling his foot soldiers the exiled Hamas is corrupt and so is Israel

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:saying the quiet part out loud

Saudis hate Iran. They are aligned with the West, which includes Israel. Most of the Gulf is. Iran's only ride or dies in the region are Syria and Lebanon, Qatar (sort of) and of course Palestine. Oh, and within these and Egypt, a whole bunch of terror organizations. Interesting bunch these.

Saudi and Iran made up last year ala the China deal. They realized the US was playing one against the other .

The US ,gobsmacked China would for the first time enter the US’ arena in the Middle East, decided not to be oneuppped and broker an Israel-Saudi deal. We see what happened there.

[Anonymous]

As for why famously apathetic China would care about making a diplomatic deal between Iranians and Saudis, nobody really knows but it did surprise the world especially the US

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And all they built with all that aid were terror tunnels while they leave their citizens as human shields. You can tell who the good guys are when the Israeli army protects their people in shelters, while the Hamas hides in shelters and lets their people suffer.

Sad state of affairs when you know Hamas will care less about protecting their own civilians than you do.

You can tell who the slow ones are. They didn’t built tunnels because they wanted to. They did it because they had to.

Otherwise, there would be no supplies. Israel has blocked everything from makeup, insulin, to chocolate or desserts into Gaza. They have them on what’s called a Starvation+ diet. Many Gazan kids have never known what a full belly feels like even before this war.

Is it all Israel’s fault? No, Hamas and their wealth grubbing leadership in Qatar are also largely to blame. But that’s exactly why 10/7 happened. Sinwar was able to lead a January 6th esque rebellion by telling his foot soldiers the exiled Hamas is corrupt and so is Israel

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And all they built with all that aid were terror tunnels while they leave their citizens as human shields. You can tell who the good guys are when the Israeli army protects their people in shelters, while the Hamas hides in shelters and lets their people suffer.

Sad state of affairs when you know Hamas will care less about protecting their own civilians than you do.

You can tell who the slow ones are. They didn’t built tunnels because they wanted to. They did it because they had to.

Otherwise, there would be no supplies. Israel has blocked everything from makeup, insulin, to chocolate or desserts into Gaza. They have them on what’s called a Starvation+ diet. Many Gazan kids have never known what a full belly feels like even before this war.

Is it all Israel’s fault? No, Hamas and their wealth grubbing leadership in Qatar are also largely to blame. But that’s exactly why 10/7 happened. Sinwar was able to lead a January 6th esque rebellion by telling his foot soldiers the exiled Hamas is corrupt and so is Israel

Israel needs to search the aid that comes in because too often there are weapons hidden within these trucks and supplies. They allow it in once the verify there are no weapons to kill people with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so- there are lunatics on the left.

There are far more racists who say they feel for the Palestinians but "jewish lives are sacred" and these people dont even realize that this is a racist thing to say. Herzl himself regarded the zionist project as a colonial project, you cannot consider yourself truly German and also indigenous to a Middle East your ancestors fled during the reign of Tiberius . These european jews felt that they were being forced out of Europe, so that whole argument falls apart. I agree with Miriam Margolyes's statement. The actions of Israelis- all of the ones who are jewish agree that not one loaf of bread should enter Gaza, 69 percent of Israelis/30 percent are Arab Israelis/ agree with a Middle Ages style blockade- dont jibe with the judaism that I have encountered in my life with its emphasis on empathy and healing the world.

Herzl was an extremist. Actually, many Jews were opposed to him in Europe and didn’t feel forced out of Europe in the 1800s and felt his idea of leaving Europe for Palestine was anti Semitic. They felt culturally and linguistically European and that going to create a colonial settlement in the Middle East would be doing what the anti Semites want.

His movement didn’t gain traction till after WW2/ the Holocaust . That’s when most Jews finally saw the need for Israel , but initially Jews were opposed to Herzls idea about creating an Israel in the Holy Land. They thought Jews were better off in every Middle Eastern country instead of just one .

Interesting. I've always thought the Zionist claim on Palestine due to being "the true indigenous people," based on having ancestors who lived there 2,000 years ago, was incredibly weak. If I were to demand some of "my" ancestral land in Ireland back because Oliver Cromwell stole it almost 400 years ago, I don't think I'd get very far.

The “Zionist” (a term that is incredibly anti-Semitic) claim is not that our right to Israel comes from anyone who lived there 2000 years ago.

Our claim is that the Jewish people have a history of residence in the area that is currently considered to be Israel (as well as the West Bank and Gaza) that stretches back thousands of years. Additionally, outside of periods where the land was under the control of invading nations (Romans, Turks, British, and most recently the Palestinians), the Jewish people have been the governing body of the land. They have a very strong claim, which is why they are recognized as the leaders of modern Israel, not Hamas.

Zionism is an acquisitive, expansionist, imperialist, racist, selfish, colonial, and genocidal ideology. Judaism is a religion. Stop trying to hijack the term "antisemitism" to justify the evil and supremacist philosophy of Zionism. That is in itself antisemitic. Judaism is not Zionism, and antisemitism is not anti-Zionism. You stain Judaism when you associate it with Zionism.

MANY people, including today's Palestinians, have a history of residence in what is currently considered to be Israel. Every one of us has a history of residence in Africa, which is where our species originated. Does that mean we can take over Ethiopia and evict the current indigenous people? Many of us have a history of residence in what is now Israel, as our ancestors lived in that land on their journey out of Africa. It was the first land traversed by ancient humans as they exited Africa. UN Resolution 181 was a terrible mistake. It should have been mitigated by UN Resolution 194, but Zionists, true to their overweening cultural narcissism, believe they can pick and choose which international laws suit them.

The land currently called Israel has been continuously inhabited by humans for possibly more than 100,000 years. It was certainly inhabited tens of thousands of years before Judaism was even invented. It has been conquered and re-conquered repeatedly. Why should one group that lived there 2,000 years ago and then left and mingled with other populations suddenly be given the region? If we were to apply that precedent the world over, there would be absolute chaos.

Do you ever stop to think of the rights of Palestinians, or do you consider them so ethnically inferior that they can simply be evicted or exterminated for the convenience of Zionists? Do you want to murder them all so you can build new settlements in Gaza or the West Bank before their bodies are cold? Many Palestinians are the descendants of people who lived in the region millennia before Judaism was invented. Some are descendants of Jews and had ancestors that converted to Islam or Christianity. In what world should THESE people suddenly lose their rights to invading hordes who had been absent for thousands of years and were as much native to Poland or Russia as to Palestine? During the Nakba, thousands of Palestinians were murdered, raped, and had their land and belongings stolen by Zionist invaders, and about three-quarters of a million of them were evicted from their homes, driven across borders, and murdered if they tried to revisit their homes. This is an absolutely despicable blot on human history. Israel should be doing what Germany does. It should admit it conducted genocide during the Nakba and is continuing to do so now and then redress the atrocities of its past. That is the way forward for all of us as we collectively come to terms with our primitive and bloodthirsty history and attempt to reinvent ourselves as ethical and equitable.

There is breathtaking irony in your attempts to weaponize "antisemitism" to allow the genocide of indigenous Palestinians. Breathtaking.

First, it is clear you do not understand the history of Israel.

Certainly there have been many different populations that called Israel home - the Egyptians, Romans, Turks, British, and Palestinians have all, at different times, emigrated into Israel, however the one constant over thousands of years has been that Jewish people. Unlike these invaders, who were historically drawn by the regions’ economic and environmental prosperity and the Jewish people’s hospitality, Jewish people have been consistently present in the region, and considered to be the sole native population, up until the last decade or so in which Iran and Palestinian Allie’s have spread the lie that Jews only entered Israel in the 1940s. This is not true, the Jewish identify was the primary, dominant culture in the region going back to thousands of years before the birth of Jesus, and were never fully removed from the area, as other cultures invaded, faded, were replaced, and shifted.

Of course I consider the right of Palestinians. As does Israel. Many Palestinians live in Israel with the same rights as any other Israeli, serve in the IDF, and support the current mission. The removal of Hamas is in the best interest of all innocent Palestinians. If you support Palestinians and Palestine, you should be strongly supporting Israel in its current mission, as their intentions and the intentions of innocent Palestinians are the same.

What many are misrepresenting as supporting Palestinians is actually supporting Hamas - calling for a ceasefire before Hamas is removed from power over the Palestinian people, calling for the reimplementation of the previous corrupt Humanitarian aid program so Hamas can continue to siphon off aid and sell it to support their war plans, etc… None of that is moving towards a better world where the Palestinian people. The reality you people refuse to accept is that the Palestinian people are far better off right now then they were on 10/6, and the reason for that is solely because Israel has intervened and is currently hard at work removing their oppressive Hamas overlords.

No one considers Jews the sole native population of the region. That’s your own personal wet dream.

Really? Tell that to the history books. Jewish people have had a long history in the region that goes back thousands of years without cessation, having lived in the region through many changes in the political leadership of the region. This was acknowledged back in the 1940s, and is one of the common lies of Hamas supporters, who are more then happy to ignore this history and pretend that Jewish people just suddenly appeared in Israel in the 1940s! Yes, there has been a large number of Jewish people who have since immigrated to Israel - because unlike Christianity and Islam which are dominant religions in dozens of nations, Judaism has one single nation that it holds on to precariously - but that does not take away the well established history of Jewish influence in the region.

It is also skewed by straight up anti-semites to imply that anyone who brings up this history is relying solely on the Torah and references to a Jewish state to establish this history, which is simply untrue. You see it all over this thread “OMG it’s the God literally gave Israel to the Jews poster!” Recognize that phrase? It’s basically thrown at every Israel supporter in this thread.

Yes, references in the Torah - as well as the Bible and other religious texts - certainly can help identify certain historical context to Israel - it is unarguable that there was a nation located generally in the region of Jerusalem that was politically and culturally Jewish that dates back thousands of years. We can also say, with relative certainty, that despite the region falling under Roman rule, at the time of Jesus there remained a significant Jewish population that held considerable social and economic power in the region.

But those notes have nothing to do with the decades of research demonstrating that, unlike the Hamas supporters would like you to think, Jews never all left Israel and have consistently remained a notable cultural group located within the area that comprises modern Israel, without the long period of exile that these folks Want you to imagine.

Don’t want to take my word for it?

https://bje.org.au/knowledge-centre/israel/history/historical-presence/

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/28/opinion/jewish-history-israel.html

One promoter of Palestinian terror I spoke to in college was only interested in these facts when I told him that Karl Marx did a census.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Gaza Strip is only about 5 miles wide. Not very fertile for farmland. It’s the worst piece of land (the deserts and kibbutz by Gaza aren’t that great either which is probably why Israel put the Bedouins there) but Hamas were able to urbanize it and use tunnels for imports since there is a sea blockade, international sanctions, and they can’t build ports.

Hamas with no resource or money built some better infrastructure in Gaza than in rural Southern Israel

What does a sea blockade have to do with tunnels? Do they go to Italy?

Bless your heart.

No, but they go to Egypt to get supplies that come from Italy . If all the US ports were closed, the stores would be empty within weeks

You don't have to go by sea to get from Egypt to Gaza.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so- there are lunatics on the left.

There are far more racists who say they feel for the Palestinians but "jewish lives are sacred" and these people dont even realize that this is a racist thing to say. Herzl himself regarded the zionist project as a colonial project, you cannot consider yourself truly German and also indigenous to a Middle East your ancestors fled during the reign of Tiberius . These european jews felt that they were being forced out of Europe, so that whole argument falls apart. I agree with Miriam Margolyes's statement. The actions of Israelis- all of the ones who are jewish agree that not one loaf of bread should enter Gaza, 69 percent of Israelis/30 percent are Arab Israelis/ agree with a Middle Ages style blockade- dont jibe with the judaism that I have encountered in my life with its emphasis on empathy and healing the world.

Herzl was an extremist. Actually, many Jews were opposed to him in Europe and didn’t feel forced out of Europe in the 1800s and felt his idea of leaving Europe for Palestine was anti Semitic. They felt culturally and linguistically European and that going to create a colonial settlement in the Middle East would be doing what the anti Semites want.

His movement didn’t gain traction till after WW2/ the Holocaust . That’s when most Jews finally saw the need for Israel , but initially Jews were opposed to Herzls idea about creating an Israel in the Holy Land. They thought Jews were better off in every Middle Eastern country instead of just one .

Interesting. I've always thought the Zionist claim on Palestine due to being "the true indigenous people," based on having ancestors who lived there 2,000 years ago, was incredibly weak. If I were to demand some of "my" ancestral land in Ireland back because Oliver Cromwell stole it almost 400 years ago, I don't think I'd get very far.

The “Zionist” (a term that is incredibly anti-Semitic) claim is not that our right to Israel comes from anyone who lived there 2000 years ago.

Our claim is that the Jewish people have a history of residence in the area that is currently considered to be Israel (as well as the West Bank and Gaza) that stretches back thousands of years. Additionally, outside of periods where the land was under the control of invading nations (Romans, Turks, British, and most recently the Palestinians), the Jewish people have been the governing body of the land. They have a very strong claim, which is why they are recognized as the leaders of modern Israel, not Hamas.

Zionism is an acquisitive, expansionist, imperialist, racist, selfish, colonial, and genocidal ideology. Judaism is a religion. Stop trying to hijack the term "antisemitism" to justify the evil and supremacist philosophy of Zionism. That is in itself antisemitic. Judaism is not Zionism, and antisemitism is not anti-Zionism. You stain Judaism when you associate it with Zionism.

MANY people, including today's Palestinians, have a history of residence in what is currently considered to be Israel. Every one of us has a history of residence in Africa, which is where our species originated. Does that mean we can take over Ethiopia and evict the current indigenous people? Many of us have a history of residence in what is now Israel, as our ancestors lived in that land on their journey out of Africa. It was the first land traversed by ancient humans as they exited Africa. UN Resolution 181 was a terrible mistake. It should have been mitigated by UN Resolution 194, but Zionists, true to their overweening cultural narcissism, believe they can pick and choose which international laws suit them.

The land currently called Israel has been continuously inhabited by humans for possibly more than 100,000 years. It was certainly inhabited tens of thousands of years before Judaism was even invented. It has been conquered and re-conquered repeatedly. Why should one group that lived there 2,000 years ago and then left and mingled with other populations suddenly be given the region? If we were to apply that precedent the world over, there would be absolute chaos.

Do you ever stop to think of the rights of Palestinians, or do you consider them so ethnically inferior that they can simply be evicted or exterminated for the convenience of Zionists? Do you want to murder them all so you can build new settlements in Gaza or the West Bank before their bodies are cold? Many Palestinians are the descendants of people who lived in the region millennia before Judaism was invented. Some are descendants of Jews and had ancestors that converted to Islam or Christianity. In what world should THESE people suddenly lose their rights to invading hordes who had been absent for thousands of years and were as much native to Poland or Russia as to Palestine? During the Nakba, thousands of Palestinians were murdered, raped, and had their land and belongings stolen by Zionist invaders, and about three-quarters of a million of them were evicted from their homes, driven across borders, and murdered if they tried to revisit their homes. This is an absolutely despicable blot on human history. Israel should be doing what Germany does. It should admit it conducted genocide during the Nakba and is continuing to do so now and then redress the atrocities of its past. That is the way forward for all of us as we collectively come to terms with our primitive and bloodthirsty history and attempt to reinvent ourselves as ethical and equitable.

There is breathtaking irony in your attempts to weaponize "antisemitism" to allow the genocide of indigenous Palestinians. Breathtaking.

First, it is clear you do not understand the history of Israel.

Certainly there have been many different populations that called Israel home - the Egyptians, Romans, Turks, British, and Palestinians have all, at different times, emigrated into Israel, however the one constant over thousands of years has been that Jewish people. Unlike these invaders, who were historically drawn by the regions’ economic and environmental prosperity and the Jewish people’s hospitality, Jewish people have been consistently present in the region, and considered to be the sole native population, up until the last decade or so in which Iran and Palestinian Allie’s have spread the lie that Jews only entered Israel in the 1940s. This is not true, the Jewish identify was the primary, dominant culture in the region going back to thousands of years before the birth of Jesus, and were never fully removed from the area, as other cultures invaded, faded, were replaced, and shifted.

Of course I consider the right of Palestinians. As does Israel. Many Palestinians live in Israel with the same rights as any other Israeli, serve in the IDF, and support the current mission. The removal of Hamas is in the best interest of all innocent Palestinians. If you support Palestinians and Palestine, you should be strongly supporting Israel in its current mission, as their intentions and the intentions of innocent Palestinians are the same.

What many are misrepresenting as supporting Palestinians is actually supporting Hamas - calling for a ceasefire before Hamas is removed from power over the Palestinian people, calling for the reimplementation of the previous corrupt Humanitarian aid program so Hamas can continue to siphon off aid and sell it to support their war plans, etc… None of that is moving towards a better world where the Palestinian people. The reality you people refuse to accept is that the Palestinian people are far better off right now then they were on 10/6, and the reason for that is solely because Israel has intervened and is currently hard at work removing their oppressive Hamas overlords.

No one considers Jews the sole native population of the region. That’s your own personal wet dream.

Really? Tell that to the history books. Jewish people have had a long history in the region that goes back thousands of years without cessation, having lived in the region through many changes in the political leadership of the region. This was acknowledged back in the 1940s, and is one of the common lies of Hamas supporters, who are more then happy to ignore this history and pretend that Jewish people just suddenly appeared in Israel in the 1940s! Yes, there has been a large number of Jewish people who have since immigrated to Israel - because unlike Christianity and Islam which are dominant religions in dozens of nations, Judaism has one single nation that it holds on to precariously - but that does not take away the well established history of Jewish influence in the region.

It is also skewed by straight up anti-semites to imply that anyone who brings up this history is relying solely on the Torah and references to a Jewish state to establish this history, which is simply untrue. You see it all over this thread “OMG it’s the God literally gave Israel to the Jews poster!” Recognize that phrase? It’s basically thrown at every Israel supporter in this thread.

Yes, references in the Torah - as well as the Bible and other religious texts - certainly can help identify certain historical context to Israel - it is unarguable that there was a nation located generally in the region of Jerusalem that was politically and culturally Jewish that dates back thousands of years. We can also say, with relative certainty, that despite the region falling under Roman rule, at the time of Jesus there remained a significant Jewish population that held considerable social and economic power in the region.

But those notes have nothing to do with the decades of research demonstrating that, unlike the Hamas supporters would like you to think, Jews never all left Israel and have consistently remained a notable cultural group located within the area that comprises modern Israel, without the long period of exile that these folks Want you to imagine.

Don’t want to take my word for it?

https://bje.org.au/knowledge-centre/israel/history/historical-presence/

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/28/opinion/jewish-history-israel.html

No matter how much Zionists push this… there is no inherent right to land because your great great great great great …. (Great * 300) …. Great grandparents once hung out there before the advent of any modern law. There are no take backsies. This is 2024.