Succession - Season 4

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I am very anti “shiv is going to abort!” because I think it’s a huge reach and there is like 1-2 posters obsessed with that idea who keep talking about it.
BUT!
Two episodes left and shiv has only told Tom so far (who didn’t even seem to believe her). And it seems each episode only lasts a day (or two). Which means the series will end way before Shivs due date.
I could totally see the end of her arc being that she either leaves Tom/ leaves her entire family (or is kicked out), aborts, and goes off somewhere alone.
Or, commits suicide. She took some big blows this season.

I don’t think it’s realistic to end the series with a main character being pregnant and not having the pregnancy be resolved either by a baby being born or by the pregnancy ending. It’s not a neat closure otherwise. I think the series will somehow need to complete her pregnancy arch- either by shiv having the baby, miscarrying, aborting, or committing suicide.

You criticize those of us who have suggested Shiv will abort, and then you suggest that it's quite possible she aborts.

I criticized people making up things about reasons she had an amino - to give her a reason to abort- and saying “she was sitting in the conference room about to call and schedule an abortion when Tom walked in”, absolutely. Because it was made up.

Except that you don't know that, any more than the rest of us do. Posters are taking free rein, making up what THEY think will happen in this series, or how THEY interpreted a scene. That is one interpretation of Shiv's scene, alone in the conference room. That perhaps she was going to call her OB and schedule an abortion, when Tom walks in and is especially sweet and kind to her in that moment. So perhaps she reconsiders the abortion. This is all a theory - just like the numerous other theories posited on this thread.

As for the amnio, I was one of the posters who was saying she just had a routine amnio, as many of us "advanced maternal aged" moms have had (35+). I made no sinister reference as to why she had the amnio, unlike some other posters (I've had three of my own, all routine). However, I find it very plausible that Shiv did not want this baby - she knows she'd be a terrible mom, her own mother said as much to her, and now Tom has as well. What better way to "shiv" Tom than to abort his (much wanted) baby and then tell him she has done so.

Now tell us about some of your made-up theories so we can criticize them and tell you how wrong you are.

I think she was about to call and ask about tuition prices for clown school and then Tom walked in and hugged her and she decided she didn’t want to work as a clown anymore

+1 and what people don't seem to get is that when they were in Norway earlier in the season, and Shiv was talking to Matsson in the evening, there's a scene they don't show where Matsson shows Shiv a time travel machine he had the engineers at GoJo build for him, and they get in it and go back in time to the moment of insemination, and they substitute Matsson's sperm for Tom's. He doesn't have sex with Shiv, that would be weird -- he is carrying around a turkey baster with his sperm and they use that. Then they return to the current timeline only now Shiv is pregnant with Matsson's baby, not Tom's.

It's all in the subject of the actor's expressions, plus if you pause the screen at the 45 minute mark, you can see a text on Shiv's phone (it's on the table and at an angle, some people might not be able to see it) from Matsson that says "remember when we time traveled and impregnated you with my sperm, that was cool" and that's why Shiv has that momentary look of confusion or anger on her face when Roman tells her he wants to throw the election to Menken.

Also, Matsson is the one who was suggested clown college to her, that's in another deleted scene. He also suggested clown college to Greg when they were doing cocaine with the old man the night before the election. Swedish people are really into clowns and it's a litmus test for him to determine who is on the kill list. The way characters feel about becoming clowns is a tell for where they will vote on the GoJo deal.

But the part you fail to recognize is that Matsson couldn't have been the father because when HE was in clown college he was kicked really hard in the nuts enough times that he became sterile. He found that out when he and Ebba tried to have a baby, before the frozen blood thing. So the baby must be Nate's.

Nate from Ted Lasso? That's amazing!

[Anonymous]

So my predictions - I think Roman will give a MAGA type , out of touch funeral eulogy for Logan and Roman will start to look like the de facto CEO as opposed to Ken. Ken will resent this and he will do something behind the scenes to get Roman ousted. Shiv- she seems all alone right now, I think she goes 100% with Mattson because he is her only “ally” left even though he hasn’t promised her anything and will surely screw her over.

I think the company ends up in Romans hands in the end. I think Ken, who could never really hack it as CEO, ends up committing suicide once he realizes he can’t run way star and his kids and ex can’t stand him and he has nothing. And I think Shiv gives Tom custody of the baby- same as her mom gave custody of her and her brothers to Logan- because Tom is still high up in waystar (Roman maybe keeps him on to spite shiv) and shiv doesn’t trust herself to be a good mom anyways. And shiv goes off being a trust fund baby in some other realm, away from waystar, like she had been doing in season 1.

I’m probably wrong in much of this but just my ideas!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thinking about Shiv's pregnancy, I'm just thinking about how it's kind of interesting to me to watch a billionaire heiress struggle with a pregnancy because for me, it's impossible to separate the decision of whether or not to have a baby from money. Like even a reasonably well off professional woman in the same situation (say, a lawyer or doctor -- financially secure but has to work for a living) would be factoring in money as a major issue -- can she afford to raise the baby on her own if her marriage falls apart? if her spouse is a lower earner, can she afford to pay support to him if they split? Even just basic things like can she make it work with childcare while she continues to work full time. For a woman who is MC or working class instead of UMC, there would be a question of whether she could even afford to split from her spouse, even if the marriage was messed up and there was no love left, because in that situation she might not be able to afford childcare on her own and she might not be able to get support from her ex if they split. Money would just be central to the whole thing.

So it's kind of fascinating to me to look at this situation with Shiv and it's really just about what she wants. That's it. Doe she want to stay married to Tom? If not, she can divorce him and it impacts her ability to support a baby not at all. She can even pay him hefty spousal support and she's still be fine -- she's a billionaire. Her brother just blew like a billion dollars on a vanity run for president. She can work or not work if she has the baby. She can pay for the best nannies money can buy or she could just stop working and play mommy or she can do both. She can do whatever she wants.

And she's still miserable and the situation still sucks. It's crazy! All that money and they can't figure out a way to just have a kid and be a happy family.

Pregnancy and having a child make you vulnerable. In the Roy family that is not good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I am very anti “shiv is going to abort!” because I think it’s a huge reach and there is like 1-2 posters obsessed with that idea who keep talking about it.
BUT!
Two episodes left and shiv has only told Tom so far (who didn’t even seem to believe her). And it seems each episode only lasts a day (or two). Which means the series will end way before Shivs due date.
I could totally see the end of her arc being that she either leaves Tom/ leaves her entire family (or is kicked out), aborts, and goes off somewhere alone.
Or, commits suicide. She took some big blows this season.

I don’t think it’s realistic to end the series with a main character being pregnant and not having the pregnancy be resolved either by a baby being born or by the pregnancy ending. It’s not a neat closure otherwise. I think the series will somehow need to complete her pregnancy arch- either by shiv having the baby, miscarrying, aborting, or committing suicide.

You criticize those of us who have suggested Shiv will abort, and then you suggest that it's quite possible she aborts.

I criticized people making up things about reasons she had an amino - to give her a reason to abort- and saying “she was sitting in the conference room about to call and schedule an abortion when Tom walked in”, absolutely. Because it was made up.

Except that you don't know that, any more than the rest of us do. Posters are taking free rein, making up what THEY think will happen in this series, or how THEY interpreted a scene. That is one interpretation of Shiv's scene, alone in the conference room. That perhaps she was going to call her OB and schedule an abortion, when Tom walks in and is especially sweet and kind to her in that moment. So perhaps she reconsiders the abortion. This is all a theory - just like the numerous other theories posited on this thread.

As for the amnio, I was one of the posters who was saying she just had a routine amnio, as many of us "advanced maternal aged" moms have had (35+). I made no sinister reference as to why she had the amnio, unlike some other posters (I've had three of my own, all routine). However, I find it very plausible that Shiv did not want this baby - she knows she'd be a terrible mom, her own mother said as much to her, and now Tom has as well. What better way to "shiv" Tom than to abort his (much wanted) baby and then tell him she has done so.

Now tell us about some of your made-up theories so we can criticize them and tell you how wrong you are.

I think she was about to call and ask about tuition prices for clown school and then Tom walked in and hugged her and she decided she didn’t want to work as a clown anymore

+1 and what people don't seem to get is that when they were in Norway earlier in the season, and Shiv was talking to Matsson in the evening, there's a scene they don't show where Matsson shows Shiv a time travel machine he had the engineers at GoJo build for him, and they get in it and go back in time to the moment of insemination, and they substitute Matsson's sperm for Tom's. He doesn't have sex with Shiv, that would be weird -- he is carrying around a turkey baster with his sperm and they use that. Then they return to the current timeline only now Shiv is pregnant with Matsson's baby, not Tom's.

It's all in the subject of the actor's expressions, plus if you pause the screen at the 45 minute mark, you can see a text on Shiv's phone (it's on the table and at an angle, some people might not be able to see it) from Matsson that says "remember when we time traveled and impregnated you with my sperm, that was cool" and that's why Shiv has that momentary look of confusion or anger on her face when Roman tells her he wants to throw the election to Menken.

Also, Matsson is the one who was suggested clown college to her, that's in another deleted scene. He also suggested clown college to Greg when they were doing cocaine with the old man the night before the election. Swedish people are really into clowns and it's a litmus test for him to determine who is on the kill list. The way characters feel about becoming clowns is a tell for where they will vote on the GoJo deal.

You don't understand the moral imperative around clown college and you lack insight into how despicable clowns are. I'm the only one who gets it.

Well I have actually BEEN to clown college and I'm a time traveler and I think the shows portrayals of both clowns and time travel are inaccurate and offensive. For starters, most clowns don't even believe in capitalism, and you can't wear gold jewelry during time travel because it will melt. This show is so hacky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shiv used her information about her pregnancy exactly the way Tom advised someone to: like a fine wine, and then she smashed his face with it. I thought the episode was incredible, not lazy at all. Of course now I'm terrified that next year someone is going to attempt (and succeed) at setting fire to ballot boxes in largely Democratic-leaning cities.

+1. I was thinking Tom would be the one to do that (and maybe he still will) but this was an excellent example of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So my predictions - I think Roman will give a MAGA type , out of touch funeral eulogy for Logan and Roman will start to look like the de facto CEO as opposed to Ken. Ken will resent this and he will do something behind the scenes to get Roman ousted. Shiv- she seems all alone right now, I think she goes 100% with Mattson because he is her only “ally” left even though he hasn’t promised her anything and will surely screw her over.

I think the company ends up in Romans hands in the end. I think Ken, who could never really hack it as CEO, ends up committing suicide once he realizes he can’t run way star and his kids and ex can’t stand him and he has nothing. And I think Shiv gives Tom custody of the baby- same as her mom gave custody of her and her brothers to Logan- because Tom is still high up in waystar (Roman maybe keeps him on to spite shiv) and shiv doesn’t trust herself to be a good mom anyways. And shiv goes off being a trust fund baby in some other realm, away from waystar, like she had been doing in season 1.

I’m probably wrong in much of this but just my ideas!

OMG - talk about fantasy land!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Wait, Connor was running for President?"

That was a good line

Who said it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Wait, Connor was running for President?"

That was a good line

Who said it?

Frank, I think. It was his only line, or one of a few lines, in the episode.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my predictions - I think Roman will give a MAGA type , out of touch funeral eulogy for Logan and Roman will start to look like the de facto CEO as opposed to Ken. Ken will resent this and he will do something behind the scenes to get Roman ousted. Shiv- she seems all alone right now, I think she goes 100% with Mattson because he is her only “ally” left even though he hasn’t promised her anything and will surely screw her over.

I think the company ends up in Romans hands in the end. I think Ken, who could never really hack it as CEO, ends up committing suicide once he realizes he can’t run way star and his kids and ex can’t stand him and he has nothing. And I think Shiv gives Tom custody of the baby- same as her mom gave custody of her and her brothers to Logan- because Tom is still high up in waystar (Roman maybe keeps him on to spite shiv) and shiv doesn’t trust herself to be a good mom anyways. And shiv goes off being a trust fund baby in some other realm, away from waystar, like she had been doing in season 1.

I’m probably wrong in much of this but just my ideas!

OMG - talk about fantasy land!

So, predictions about future episodes plot arcs are different from making up things that happened in past episodes like saying shiv has been trying to plan this abortion for the past few days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my predictions - I think Roman will give a MAGA type , out of touch funeral eulogy for Logan and Roman will start to look like the de facto CEO as opposed to Ken. Ken will resent this and he will do something behind the scenes to get Roman ousted. Shiv- she seems all alone right now, I think she goes 100% with Mattson because he is her only “ally” left even though he hasn’t promised her anything and will surely screw her over.

I think the company ends up in Romans hands in the end. I think Ken, who could never really hack it as CEO, ends up committing suicide once he realizes he can’t run way star and his kids and ex can’t stand him and he has nothing. And I think Shiv gives Tom custody of the baby- same as her mom gave custody of her and her brothers to Logan- because Tom is still high up in waystar (Roman maybe keeps him on to spite shiv) and shiv doesn’t trust herself to be a good mom anyways. And shiv goes off being a trust fund baby in some other realm, away from waystar, like she had been doing in season 1.

I’m probably wrong in much of this but just my ideas!

OMG - talk about fantasy land!

So, predictions about future episodes plot arcs are different from making up things that happened in past episodes like saying shiv has been trying to plan this abortion for the past few days.

Oh, ok. It is amusing to see you making the "rules" for this thread. Or at least, trying to make the rules.

[Anonymous]

The child is actually Shiv and Roman's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The child is actually Shiv and Roman's.

No it's Shiv and Mattson's

[Anonymous]

I can’t wait for next weeks episode. I can’t name my source, who would be fired for leaking, but I have it on good authority Kendall makes a spectacle of himself at the funeral by attempting a ridiculous stunt.

Per my contact in the Succession writers room, Kendall decides to pay tribute to his father by, get this, waterskiing in the Hudson and, I’m not making this up, literally jumping over a fenced off area of the river in which a Great White Shark has been placed. Seriously this is going to be lit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shiv used her information about her pregnancy exactly the way Tom advised someone to: like a fine wine, and then she smashed his face with it. I thought the episode was incredible, not lazy at all. Of course now I'm terrified that next year someone is going to attempt (and succeed) at setting fire to ballot boxes in largely Democratic-leaning cities.

THIS! I was like: stop giving the a playbook. Democracy is holding on by a thread

+1 I am incredibly angry that this show willed that possibility into the universe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shiv used her information about her pregnancy exactly the way Tom advised someone to: like a fine wine, and then she smashed his face with it. I thought the episode was incredible, not lazy at all. Of course now I'm terrified that next year someone is going to attempt (and succeed) at setting fire to ballot boxes in largely Democratic-leaning cities.

THIS! I was like: stop giving the a playbook. Democracy is holding on by a thread

+1 I am incredibly angry that this show willed that possibility into the universe.

Aren't ballot boxes metal and reinforced. Doesn't seem likely to be able to set on fire.