Bad Art Friend

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not that Dawn is white. It’s that she’s white trash. She’s from the wrong class and that can’t be overcome in literary circles when you’re also white.

What's Larson's background? Didn't sound like she was from some prominent family. Class in the US is also mutable, this is not India, we do not live in a caste system. Even if Dorland came from a lower class background she is no longer apart of that background. How much did Larson even know about her background?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you’re just going to dig in, and not be open to anything that people have said? Where has anyone said it was fine to position this as a race issue? Aside from the chunky monkeys I have not seen one single person in here or Twitter say anything of the sort.

There's been a bunch of people on Twitter (yeah yeah I know) who have positioned this story that way. They say it, then immediately blow up at anyone who challenges them, then say that white people have no idea what it's like dealing with white people - which, probably true, and probably fair - and so just sit this one out.

I saw more of that at the beginning of this story - the discourse that I see on twitter has almost entirely died down now (though I still read kidneygate and check in on this thread). But it was there, and there was plenty of it. It wasn't a universal but it was common enough.

The Twitter conversation has died down because the Chunky Monkeys and blue check friends are extremely invested in sweeping this monstrosity under the rug. They seem to have stopped the facially-absurd "white people amirite" discourse as the true facts of the matter came out and people realized that 95% of the bad actors were white.

I also want to say that there were many, many POC who defended Dorland on Twitter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The justification of everything because because Dorland was “annoying” is so false. How can someone who 1) lives in another state far away, 2) is not part of your work office, 3) doesn’t connect with you except on a private FB that you joined … quality as “annoying” when your participation is entirely voluntary? “Jealous of” sounds more like it to me. And hateful.

Looking at the written pieces of Dorland and Larson, Dorland was objectively the better writer. The Kindest is a flatly terrible piece of writing. Maybe that was the source of some of it, a resentment that someone like Dorland was more talented.

[Anonymous]

I've been wondering who, if anyone, has landed on people's DNR lists. I'm an avid reader and purchaser (and have previously read authors from my list below). My DNR list was pretty short before this point; it traditionally has taken a lot for me to get to the point of DNR. And I have never written a list like this before. But I can't abide unethical behavior and the actions of the bad actors in this seem specifically and cynically aimed at preserving their own publishing fiefdoms at any cost. Therefore, I don't want to support them again. I will also go out of my way to buy anything Dorland publishes. As Mikki Kendall pointed out early on, the one silver lining to all of this is that it might get Dorland the publishing deal she was otherwise probably not going to get.

My own current list is below. I included an incomplete list of my opinions next to each one, to give a sense of my reasoning.

Bob Kolker (because I can't trust his accuracy again, and because of his gross and overwhelming sexism)
Celeste Ng (obvious reasons)
Sonya Larson (obvious reasons)
Christopher Castellani (unethical behavior as artistic director of GrubStreet, unhinged and sexist descriptions of violence directed at Dorland, participating Chunky Monkey)
Chip Cheek (being a toadying, two-faced jerk, participating Chunky Monkey)
Alison Murphy (a white woman cynically suggesting the exploitation of Grub Street's writers of color to do the Chunky Monkey's dirty work)
Roxane Gay (leading a hateful Twitter mob against an undeserving victim, and I'm tired of her Twitter behavior, which remains unchanged since she went after a college student a few years back)
Jennifer de Leon (participant, her insufferable email to the fortunately smart Deborah Porter of the Boston Book Festival, Chunky Monkey founder)
Eve Bridberg (executive director of GrubStreet, unethical handling of Dorland's complaint)
Calvin Hennick (gleeful, cruel Chunky Monkey participant)
Alexandria Marzona-Lesnevich (another cruel Chunky Monkey participant, later doubled down on Twitter defending that behavior)
Whitney Scharer (unethically advised Larson to lie to Dorland when Dorland reached out while being a director at Grub Street, general cruel participation)
Adam Stumacher (unethical participant in cruelty while being a GrubStreet instructor, Chunky Monkey founder)
Steve Almond (sexism in his WBUR piece, also just unforgivably smarmy)

I may add/drop people as time goes on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been wondering who, if anyone, has landed on people's DNR lists. I'm an avid reader and purchaser (and have previously read authors from my list below). My DNR list was pretty short before this point; it traditionally has taken a lot for me to get to the point of DNR. And I have never written a list like this before. But I can't abide unethical behavior and the actions of the bad actors in this seem specifically and cynically aimed at preserving their own publishing fiefdoms at any cost. Therefore, I don't want to support them again. I will also go out of my way to buy anything Dorland publishes. As Mikki Kendall pointed out early on, the one silver lining to all of this is that it might get Dorland the publishing deal she was otherwise probably not going to get.

My own current list is below. I included an incomplete list of my opinions next to each one, to give a sense of my reasoning.

Bob Kolker (because I can't trust his accuracy again, and because of his gross and overwhelming sexism)
Celeste Ng (obvious reasons)
Sonya Larson (obvious reasons)
Christopher Castellani (unethical behavior as artistic director of GrubStreet, unhinged and sexist descriptions of violence directed at Dorland, participating Chunky Monkey)
Chip Cheek (being a toadying, two-faced jerk, participating Chunky Monkey)
Alison Murphy (a white woman cynically suggesting the exploitation of Grub Street's writers of color to do the Chunky Monkey's dirty work)
Roxane Gay (leading a hateful Twitter mob against an undeserving victim, and I'm tired of her Twitter behavior, which remains unchanged since she went after a college student a few years back)
Jennifer de Leon (participant, her insufferable email to the fortunately smart Deborah Porter of the Boston Book Festival, Chunky Monkey founder)
Eve Bridberg (executive director of GrubStreet, unethical handling of Dorland's complaint)
Calvin Hennick (gleeful, cruel Chunky Monkey participant)
Alexandria Marzona-Lesnevich (another cruel Chunky Monkey participant, later doubled down on Twitter defending that behavior)
Whitney Scharer (unethically advised Larson to lie to Dorland when Dorland reached out while being a director at Grub Street, general cruel participation)
Adam Stumacher (unethical participant in cruelty while being a GrubStreet instructor, Chunky Monkey founder)
Steve Almond (sexism in his WBUR piece, also just unforgivably smarmy)

I may add/drop people as time goes on.

I think I’m adding Cheryl Strayed for her comments in support of Almond that she dirty deleted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been wondering who, if anyone, has landed on people's DNR lists. I'm an avid reader and purchaser (and have previously read authors from my list below). My DNR list was pretty short before this point; it traditionally has taken a lot for me to get to the point of DNR. And I have never written a list like this before. But I can't abide unethical behavior and the actions of the bad actors in this seem specifically and cynically aimed at preserving their own publishing fiefdoms at any cost. Therefore, I don't want to support them again. I will also go out of my way to buy anything Dorland publishes. As Mikki Kendall pointed out early on, the one silver lining to all of this is that it might get Dorland the publishing deal she was otherwise probably not going to get.

My own current list is below. I included an incomplete list of my opinions next to each one, to give a sense of my reasoning.

Bob Kolker (because I can't trust his accuracy again, and because of his gross and overwhelming sexism)
Celeste Ng (obvious reasons)
Sonya Larson (obvious reasons)
Christopher Castellani (unethical behavior as artistic director of GrubStreet, unhinged and sexist descriptions of violence directed at Dorland, participating Chunky Monkey)
Chip Cheek (being a toadying, two-faced jerk, participating Chunky Monkey)
Alison Murphy (a white woman cynically suggesting the exploitation of Grub Street's writers of color to do the Chunky Monkey's dirty work)
Roxane Gay (leading a hateful Twitter mob against an undeserving victim, and I'm tired of her Twitter behavior, which remains unchanged since she went after a college student a few years back)
Jennifer de Leon (participant, her insufferable email to the fortunately smart Deborah Porter of the Boston Book Festival, Chunky Monkey founder)
Eve Bridberg (executive director of GrubStreet, unethical handling of Dorland's complaint)
Calvin Hennick (gleeful, cruel Chunky Monkey participant)
Alexandria Marzona-Lesnevich (another cruel Chunky Monkey participant, later doubled down on Twitter defending that behavior)
Whitney Scharer (unethically advised Larson to lie to Dorland when Dorland reached out while being a director at Grub Street, general cruel participation)
Adam Stumacher (unethical participant in cruelty while being a GrubStreet instructor, Chunky Monkey founder)
Steve Almond (sexism in his WBUR piece, also just unforgivably smarmy)

I may add/drop people as time goes on.

I think I’m adding Cheryl Strayed for her comments in support of Almond that she dirty deleted

PP here. I didn't put her on the list because I am unlikely to read another of her books anyhow -- I just haven't liked her work in the past -- and tweeting something and rethinking it isn't at the same level of the rest of them, to me. But don't let me persuade you otherwise!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been wondering who, if anyone, has landed on people's DNR lists. I'm an avid reader and purchaser (and have previously read authors from my list below). My DNR list was pretty short before this point; it traditionally has taken a lot for me to get to the point of DNR. And I have never written a list like this before. But I can't abide unethical behavior and the actions of the bad actors in this seem specifically and cynically aimed at preserving their own publishing fiefdoms at any cost. Therefore, I don't want to support them again. I will also go out of my way to buy anything Dorland publishes. As Mikki Kendall pointed out early on, the one silver lining to all of this is that it might get Dorland the publishing deal she was otherwise probably not going to get.

My own current list is below. I included an incomplete list of my opinions next to each one, to give a sense of my reasoning.

Bob Kolker (because I can't trust his accuracy again, and because of his gross and overwhelming sexism)
Celeste Ng (obvious reasons)
Sonya Larson (obvious reasons)
Christopher Castellani (unethical behavior as artistic director of GrubStreet, unhinged and sexist descriptions of violence directed at Dorland, participating Chunky Monkey)
Chip Cheek (being a toadying, two-faced jerk, participating Chunky Monkey)
Alison Murphy (a white woman cynically suggesting the exploitation of Grub Street's writers of color to do the Chunky Monkey's dirty work)
Roxane Gay (leading a hateful Twitter mob against an undeserving victim, and I'm tired of her Twitter behavior, which remains unchanged since she went after a college student a few years back)
Jennifer de Leon (participant, her insufferable email to the fortunately smart Deborah Porter of the Boston Book Festival, Chunky Monkey founder)
Eve Bridberg (executive director of GrubStreet, unethical handling of Dorland's complaint)
Calvin Hennick (gleeful, cruel Chunky Monkey participant)
Alexandria Marzona-Lesnevich (another cruel Chunky Monkey participant, later doubled down on Twitter defending that behavior)
Whitney Scharer (unethically advised Larson to lie to Dorland when Dorland reached out while being a director at Grub Street, general cruel participation)
Adam Stumacher (unethical participant in cruelty while being a GrubStreet instructor, Chunky Monkey founder)
Steve Almond (sexism in his WBUR piece, also just unforgivably smarmy)

I may add/drop people as time goes on.

I think I’m adding Cheryl Strayed for her comments in support of Almond that she dirty deleted

PP here. I didn't put her on the list because I am unlikely to read another of her books anyhow -- I just haven't liked her work in the past -- and tweeting something and rethinking it isn't at the same level of the rest of them, to me. But don't let me persuade you otherwise!

I think it's ok to delete if you address it "Hey, maybe that was a bad take" but not if you delete and pretend it didn't happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been wondering who, if anyone, has landed on people's DNR lists. I'm an avid reader and purchaser (and have previously read authors from my list below). My DNR list was pretty short before this point; it traditionally has taken a lot for me to get to the point of DNR. And I have never written a list like this before. But I can't abide unethical behavior and the actions of the bad actors in this seem specifically and cynically aimed at preserving their own publishing fiefdoms at any cost. Therefore, I don't want to support them again. I will also go out of my way to buy anything Dorland publishes. As Mikki Kendall pointed out early on, the one silver lining to all of this is that it might get Dorland the publishing deal she was otherwise probably not going to get.

My own current list is below. I included an incomplete list of my opinions next to each one, to give a sense of my reasoning.

Bob Kolker (because I can't trust his accuracy again, and because of his gross and overwhelming sexism)
Celeste Ng (obvious reasons)
Sonya Larson (obvious reasons)
Christopher Castellani (unethical behavior as artistic director of GrubStreet, unhinged and sexist descriptions of violence directed at Dorland, participating Chunky Monkey)
Chip Cheek (being a toadying, two-faced jerk, participating Chunky Monkey)
Alison Murphy (a white woman cynically suggesting the exploitation of Grub Street's writers of color to do the Chunky Monkey's dirty work)
Roxane Gay (leading a hateful Twitter mob against an undeserving victim, and I'm tired of her Twitter behavior, which remains unchanged since she went after a college student a few years back)
Jennifer de Leon (participant, her insufferable email to the fortunately smart Deborah Porter of the Boston Book Festival, Chunky Monkey founder)
Eve Bridberg (executive director of GrubStreet, unethical handling of Dorland's complaint)
Calvin Hennick (gleeful, cruel Chunky Monkey participant)
Alexandria Marzona-Lesnevich (another cruel Chunky Monkey participant, later doubled down on Twitter defending that behavior)
Whitney Scharer (unethically advised Larson to lie to Dorland when Dorland reached out while being a director at Grub Street, general cruel participation)
Adam Stumacher (unethical participant in cruelty while being a GrubStreet instructor, Chunky Monkey founder)
Steve Almond (sexism in his WBUR piece, also just unforgivably smarmy)

I may add/drop people as time goes on.

I think I’m adding Cheryl Strayed for her comments in support of Almond that she dirty deleted

PP here. I didn't put her on the list because I am unlikely to read another of her books anyhow -- I just haven't liked her work in the past -- and tweeting something and rethinking it isn't at the same level of the rest of them, to me. But don't let me persuade you otherwise!

I think it's ok to delete if you address it "Hey, maybe that was a bad take" but not if you delete and pretend it didn't happen.

I get it. I just don't think that's at the level of the institutional lack of ethics, misogyny/classism/sexism, and general cruel behavior from the others. But no problem with others putting her on the list!

[Anonymous]

Wow. I wonder which one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. I wonder which one?

Huh is this a typo in the tweet? Make ME your enemy?

Either way it could be any of them at this point, barf, what a group.

[Anonymous]

She clarified later in the thread it was a typo. Also, I posted this but on reflection, I don't want to speculate which one. It really could have been any of them, and if she didn't want to disclose, that is her choice, and I want to honor that. I take back wondering who it was.

[Anonymous]

Wow Lauren Hough is a big deal and that feels like an explosive allegation. I think the reason it didn’t get traction is that people didn’t catch what “CM” meant— I think only lit folk and BAF obsessive know that short hand.

It’s crazy because she’s a bestselling essayist and almost certainly more successful than all but a couple of the CMs. So on the one hand, good for her for showing this person up. On the other hand, a reminder that it’s not just unpublished writers or people who are struggling/ outsiders who get subject to this kind of harassment and bullying.

The fact that Dorland had that harassment claim against Grubstreet that got swept under the rug is now making me wonder if it could be the same person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow Lauren Hough is a big deal and that feels like an explosive allegation. I think the reason it didn’t get traction is that people didn’t catch what “CM” meant— I think only lit folk and BAF obsessive know that short hand.

It’s crazy because she’s a bestselling essayist and almost certainly more successful than all but a couple of the CMs. So on the one hand, good for her for showing this person up. On the other hand, a reminder that it’s not just unpublished writers or people who are struggling/ outsiders who get subject to this kind of harassment and bullying.

The fact that Dorland had that harassment claim against Grubstreet that got swept under the rug is now making me wonder if it could be the same person.

I mean: how can Grub Street not engage in serious house-cleaning? This a BFD.

@kidneygate made a side-by-side comparison of Dorland’s letter next to the stolen material in every iteration of The Kindest and it is damning AF.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kidneygate/status/1449882637804392451

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow Lauren Hough is a big deal and that feels like an explosive allegation. I think the reason it didn’t get traction is that people didn’t catch what “CM” meant— I think only lit folk and BAF obsessive know that short hand.

It’s crazy because she’s a bestselling essayist and almost certainly more successful than all but a couple of the CMs. So on the one hand, good for her for showing this person up. On the other hand, a reminder that it’s not just unpublished writers or people who are struggling/ outsiders who get subject to this kind of harassment and bullying.

The fact that Dorland had that harassment claim against Grubstreet that got swept under the rug is now making me wonder if it could be the same person.

I mean: how can Grub Street not engage in serious house-cleaning? This a BFD.

@kidneygate made a side-by-side comparison of Dorland’s letter next to the stolen material in every iteration of The Kindest and it is damning AF.

https://mobile.twitter.com/kidneygate/status/1449882637804392451

The part about the paired exchange (sixth tweet), oy. She didn't even bother to Google what she plagiarized.

[Anonymous]

I guess Celeste Ng is doubling down, and Becky Tuch isn't here for it.