Any first-hand recent experience with CS at Tsinghua/Peking Universities in China?

[Anonymous]

DC wants to study CS or computer related major. Wants to cast a wide net for both domestic and international universities. Very little information we can find regarding these two schools other the the US News world ranking. Would like to know if anyone's kids have studied there. Are the program rigorous? Are international students treated equally as the Chinese domestic students in terms of courses offered?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC wants to study CS or computer related major. Wants to cast a wide net for both domestic and international universities. Very little information we can find regarding these two schools other the the US News world ranking. Would like to know if anyone's kids have studied there. Are the program rigorous? Are international students treated equally as the Chinese domestic students in terms of courses offered?

Right now, there are very few western students, particularly Americans, studying in mainland China. And no, a foreign student will never be regarded the same as a Chinese student. It's a different place. It's one thing to go for a semester on a dedicated study abroad program with all the protections. But to apply for four years would be extremely unusual for an American and I suspect unlikely to lead to an admission and a visa. I'd suggest looking at Singapore or Taiwan, but even then the visa will be difficult for a rando from America. And this presumes you're pretty fluent in Chinese. Some classes might be in English, but it's impossible to make the most of things if you don't speak the language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC wants to study CS or computer related major. Wants to cast a wide net for both domestic and international universities. Very little information we can find regarding these two schools other the the US News world ranking. Would like to know if anyone's kids have studied there. Are the program rigorous? Are international students treated equally as the Chinese domestic students in terms of courses offered?

Right now, there are very few western students, particularly Americans, studying in mainland China. And no, a foreign student will never be regarded the same as a Chinese student. It's a different place. It's one thing to go for a semester on a dedicated study abroad program with all the protections. But to apply for four years would be extremely unusual for an American and I suspect unlikely to lead to an admission and a visa. I'd suggest looking at Singapore or Taiwan, but even then the visa will be difficult for a rando from America. And this presumes you're pretty fluent in Chinese. Some classes might be in English, but it's impossible to make the most of things if you don't speak the language.

I believe the highly rated Singapore technical college is English classes.

[Anonymous]

I suggest HKUST as a better Chinese-ish option

[Anonymous]

Are you Asian? Would be difficult socially as a white or other ethnic group person.

[Anonymous]

As a STEM hiring manager, I would not hire a non-PRC citizen with an undergrad from either place. All PRC universities emphasize pure memorization over creativity. It largely is a cultural phenomenon. I also would be doing more extensive screening in the interview process, posing some Kobayashi Maru design or programming problems to see if they could cope.

The huge advantage westerners have in technology partly comes from an ability to think outside the box, to be creative, and to understand in depth (not merely cramming for the tests). Much of E Asia are outstanding at manufacturing and at being a fast follower, but never would have invented the iPhone de novo.

Similar issues with excessive memorization exist in S Korea, India, and Taiwan. Somewhat true, but perhaps less so, also in Japan and Singapore. India and Singapore usually teach in English; English is the default interoperable language both of those places. A few specific universities in Japan or Taiwan teach STEM (at least) in English.

My suggestion is to study STEM in the US, Canada, UK, or Ireland. Then, have DC see about getting a Luce Fellowship (might have a new name, not sure) or similar to spend a year working in Asia.

[Anonymous]

Both Tsinghua and BeijingU get ranked highly primarily because they probably are the top 2 universities in the PRC and because those rankings emphasize research. Both have had issues with post-publication retractions of some STEM papers, as people in the affected specialties will know. They really are not as good as their rankings suggest.

If determined to study in Asia, maybe look at Singapore. All major universities in Singapore teach in English for all subjects -- except Foreign Language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a STEM hiring manager, I would not hire a non-PRC citizen with an undergrad from either place. All PRC universities emphasize pure memorization over creativity. It largely is a cultural phenomenon. I also would be doing more extensive screening in the interview process, posing some Kobayashi Maru design or programming problems to see if they could cope.

The huge advantage westerners have in technology partly comes from an ability to think outside the box, to be creative, and to understand in depth (not merely cramming for the tests). Much of E Asia are outstanding at manufacturing and at being a fast follower, but never would have invented the iPhone de novo.

Similar issues with excessive memorization exist in S Korea, India, and Taiwan. Somewhat true, but perhaps less so, also in Japan and Singapore. India and Singapore usually teach in English; English is the default interoperable language both of those places. A few specific universities in Japan or Taiwan teach STEM (at least) in English.

My suggestion is to study STEM in the US, Canada, UK, or Ireland. Then, have DC see about getting a Luce Fellowship (might have a new name, not sure) or similar to spend a year working in Asia.

You have no idea about those schools. Many Tsinghua grads work in prestigious high tech firms all over the world. They are ranked very high because they publish a lot of original research. Their students are the very best.

It’s extremely hard to get in domestically. If you are looking for a rigorous program, applying internationally is an easier way to get in. But be prepared for the hard work.

[Anonymous]

Chinese educational system is driven by rote memorization and subject to severe government censorship in higher education and society at large. Lots of corruption among the connected 'party" elite and their kids (I studied there for a year).

[Anonymous]

lol severe government censorship. Please ask Harvard how it feels about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You have no idea about those schools.

Au Contraire. I have experience working with their graduates.

[Anonymous]

NUS (Singapore)

University of Tokyo

KAIST (Korea)

However make sure the kid understands there will be a much difference culture wise

[Anonymous]

Your kid should consider going to Canada. Isn’t Waterloo well known for CS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have no idea about those schools.

Au Contraire. I have experience working with their graduates.

I see their graduates are professors of major universities, engineers of top companies, and researchers in the forefront of computing. You are entitled to your own bias but that’s not the reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both Tsinghua and BeijingU get ranked highly primarily because they probably are the top 2 universities in the PRC and because those rankings emphasize research. Both have had issues with post-publication retractions of some STEM papers, as people in the affected specialties will know. They really are not as good as their rankings suggest.

If determined to study in Asia, maybe look at Singapore. All major universities in Singapore teach in English for all subjects -- except Foreign Language.

This I worried that the culture may be very cut-throat and not value intellectual integrity. I have no doubt that students in these two schools are extremely bright and smart, so the peer group should be very strong, at least no less than top 20 US universities. The questions perhaps is that if there is no language barriers, will the international students have equal access to the high quality courses of the universities or are there there restrictions for international students to take courses that reserve for domestic students.