What makes the "worst" hs's in FCPS so bad?

[Anonymous]

With our budget, we're looking at living in an area that feeds to one of the "lesser" Fairfax high schools, i.e. Annandale, Mt. Vernon, Edison, West Potomac, Lee, etc.

So, really, what makes these high schools "bad"? Are there fewer AP/honors classes offered, fewer extra-curricular activities/courses available? Are the teachers sub-par? Is it a safety issue in the school? Are the schools themselves run-down?

I'm really curious. Obviously the students come from more diverse backgrounds and there are a higher percentage of low-income families that attend, but is that enough in itself to make the schools unacceptable? The FCPS website really defends all of it's schools so it's hard to get an answer from there - I don't think that demographics statistics and how many kids get free lunch tells the whole story.

Also, how do these schools compare to the best schools in PG county - we could get a big house there!

[Anonymous]

I think when people look at these schools and label them as "bad" it is primarily based on test scores. The "bad" schools also tend to have more ESOL students and students from lower socio-economic backgrounds (i.e. more free and reduced lunch) which seems to imply that the school is not as good. However, the curriculum at these schools is the same as at every other FCPS school and there are still many excellent teachers and some bad ones (but even the best schools have bad teachers). The facilities vary - Annandale has been renovated recently and so has JEB Stuart (another that also usually falls on the "bad" list). I don't think you can go wrong with any of the schools you are looking at as long as you have a well motivated student and are providing lots of support at home. All FCPS schools have lots to offer as far as AP/IB, sports, and extra-curriculars, too.

[Anonymous]

I agree with PP ... it's mostly test scores and those are largely the result of the higher numbers of ESOL students, who by the way do pretty well, all considered. How would you like to move to El Salvador and see how your kids test there using Spanish??! The college track classes are good, there are lots of AP and/or IB options, excellent extracurriculars and many, many caring and responsive teachers and staff. The facilities are not like the Potomac School ... but I assume that is no surprise. Edison High just got a new front section put on over the summer with lots of windows ... it looks very nice and will allow them to get the kids out of the temporary trailers they used to allow the building to be renovated.

[Anonymous]

Agreeing with both PP's. I attended West Potomac and there isn't anything bad about that school as far as the education goes. I was in all AP courses and received an excellent education. So would your child, if they were so inclined.

What most people that you're talking about say bad they mean too many poor, low performing, chip eating kids. They don't want those kids influencing theirs. Which is interesting because there are plenty of well off families in these schools as well. It is Fairfax County after all.

That being said I have a lot of friends that graduated from Annandale, but I would avoid it at the moment because I believe it is over crowded this year.

[Anonymous]

People worry so much about the differences between the HS, but at the end of the day in Fairfax there's really only TJHSST and everyone else.

TJ had 149 National Merit Semifinalists last year; no other school had more than eight. There were seven schools that had between four to eight NMS (Lake Braddock, Langley, Madison, Marshall, McLean, Oakton, Westfield, West Springfield and Woodson). Lee, Mount Vernon and South County didn't have a single NMS. All the other schools had one or two.

[Anonymous]

Well, yes PP. But if TJ didn't exist, then most of those 149 National Merit Semifinalists would have been attending other FCPS high schools. And that is because those kids are really smart ... not that the teaching at TJ is SOOO much better.

[Anonymous]

There are more safety incidents at the "worst" FCPS high schools, but I don't know if this is 'thug on thug' or 'thugs bullying the general populace.'

... and it goes without saying a mediocre FCPS high school is better than a mediocre Prince William high school.

But all else being equal, how does having large numbers of FRL and ESOL kids in a school *improve* things for a non-FRL and non-ESOL child?

OP, there are SFH's -- granted they are 30-50 years old -- on 1/4 acre lots for under $450k in the Marshall and Woodson zones.

If you add townhouses, Fairfax, West Springfield, Robinson, Braddock, Oakton, and Madison become available.

But if you want newer/larger/close in, then yeah, you'll need to go to the less fashionable districts. Hyperventilating (my own included) aside, you will probably do just fine at Annandale or Lee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are more safety incidents at the "worst" FCPS high schools, but I don't know if this is 'thug on thug' or 'thugs bullying the general populace.'

... and it goes without saying a mediocre FCPS high school is better than a mediocre Prince William high school.

But all else being equal, how does having large numbers of FRL and ESOL kids in a school *improve* things for a non-FRL and non-ESOL child?

OP, there are SFH's -- granted they are 30-50 years old -- on 1/4 acre lots for under $450k in the Marshall and Woodson zones.

If you add townhouses, Fairfax, West Springfield, Robinson, Braddock, Oakton, and Madison become available.

But if you want newer/larger/close in, then yeah, you'll need to go to the less fashionable districts. Hyperventilating (my own included) aside, you will probably do just fine at Annandale or Lee.

I teach ESOL in a FCPS high school. I have worked in Teamed World History 1 classes where it is a mix of non-ESOL students and Intermediate level ESOL students (beginning ESOL students are primarily in sheltered classes). Over my 10 years of teaching, I have found the ESOL students generally are more motivated than the non-ESOL students. I don't know why, but I think a lot of it comes from the schools in their countries being more rigorous than the schools here (not all schools, but many of my ESOL students say school here is really easy once they get over the language issue). They also are very driven to succeed and graduate - maybe because they realize the gift they have gotten by coming to this country and being able to take advantage of all that is offered here in the U.S. They also bring different cultures and experiences to a class which is especially great in a class like World History. When we study about Islam, we have Muslim students in the class who can talk about the Koran and the 5 Pillars of Islam. We have Buddhists who can talk about reincarnation and karma. Are there ESOL students who don't want to learn? Of course - just like there are non-ESOL students who don't want to learn. But in general I think having ESOL students in a teamed class brings up the academic level of that class. Most people seem to have this picture of ESOL students being poor and uneducated - that is certainly not always the case. In my school, we have many students who are children of diplomats, as well as just regular middle class kids from other countries who have moved here for more opportunities. So, while there are certain issues that come with a school with a large ESOL population, it certainly doesn't "hurt" the school to have them there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agreeing with both PP's. I attended West Potomac and there isn't anything bad about that school as far as the education goes. I was in all AP courses and received an excellent education. So would your child, if they were so inclined.

What most people that you're talking about say bad they mean too many poor, low performing, chip eating kids. They don't want those kids influencing theirs. Which is interesting because there are plenty of well off families in these schools as well. It is Fairfax County after all.

That being said I have a lot of friends that graduated from Annandale, but I would avoid it at the moment because I believe it is over crowded this year.

When TJ was turned into a magnet school, all its non-magnet students were sent to Annandale. FCPS did that to mollify the Jefferson parents, who wanted their kids to stay together (and didn't want their kids sent to Stuart, Lee or Edison). As expedient as that may have been at the time, it is why Annandale is so over-crowded now. FCPS is finally getting around to dealing with the consequences of that decision, but it's possible that students currently zoned to Annandale could end up attending any number of other schools two years from now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP, there are SFH's -- granted they are 30-50 years old -- on 1/4 acre lots for under $450k in the Marshall and Woodson zones.

If you add townhouses, Fairfax, West Springfield, Robinson, Braddock, Oakton, and Madison become available.

You can find older SFHs on 1/4 acre lots for under $450K in the Madison district (Vienna Woods), and possibly in some of the other attendance areas listed as well.

[Anonymous]

12:52 here.

ESOL teacher: Thanks. you are correct in that not all ESOL kids are created equal (the same with FRL kids.)

@13:50: The only SFH's under 450k would be the real fixer-uppers. Yeonas ramblers that have been kept up seem to go for 475-525 depending on house/lot size, whether it's brick siding, and closeness to 123.

[Anonymous]

Someone recently posted these rankings of last year's SAT scores at the Fairfax schools on another forum; thought I'd pass it on.

1.TJ 2200
2.Langley 1812
3.McLean 1778
4.Woodson 1738
5.Madison 1734
6.Oakton 1729
7.Marshall 1690
8.Robinson 1665
9.Chantilly 1663
10.West Springfield 1644
11.Herndon 1642
12.Lake Braddock 1639
13.Fairfax 1635
14.Westfield 1625
15.Centreville 1596
16.South Lakes 1578
17.South County 1572
18.West Potomac 1561
19.Stuart 1532
20.Annandale 1518
21.Edison 1512
22.Falls Church 1505
23.Lee 1504
24.Hayfield 1475
25.Mount Vernon 1458

[Anonymous]

Recent FCPS SAT scores (2010) broken down by HS are on the FCPS website in a recent press release. I believe all FC HSs have scores above the national SAT average which is pretty impressive considering the student populations (international, low-income etc) many of them are educating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Recent FCPS SAT scores (2010) broken down by HS are on the FCPS website in a recent press release. I believe all FC HSs have scores above the national SAT average which is pretty impressive considering the student populations (international, low-income etc) many of them are educating.

The information in the PP was for the Class of 2010 (last year's seniors).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Recent FCPS SAT scores (2010) broken down by HS are on the FCPS website in a recent press release. I believe all FC HSs have scores above the national SAT average which is pretty impressive considering the student populations (international, low-income etc) many of them are educating.

Actually, the bottom 4 schools were all below the national average of 1509, and the bottom 6 schools were all below the Virginia average score of 1521.