Worried about college for "standard strong" DS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lack of SAT score and junior year grades, let alone EC context, just leave too much variability to guess.

Just know there will be many, many options! Focus on what you can control for now, worry about schools later.

^ This. You’re heading into sophomore year summer- this is a great time to explore some interesting activities, do some high-impact volunteer work and see if there might be a unique, spiky hobby your kid can explore. Later on in HS it gets trickier to do these things- kids want to work, make $, hang out with friends once they get a bit older. Look into summer programs with local museums, nonprofits, get a summer internship, etc. My kids both did a foreign exchange program their sophomore summer, along with tons of volunteer work. DD did enough volunteering that she was able to get the PVSA gold award (program has been suspended- thanks, Trump) that summer, which worked out great because she was too young to get a job. In addition to rounding out ECs, these activities provide great material for college essays.

Next year, start your college visits. Once you have an idea of what types of schools appeal to your DS, you can build a good list. You’re smart to be doing your research now to set him us for success later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP said that the level of her DC is middle of the pack. Test scores for middle of the pack at NYC specialized high schools are high 1400s if not 1500. When OP projected test score to be 1400, I read it as high 1400s, e.g., 1490. That’s very different from 1400.

Cornell state schools are still reaches, but are not completely impossible. Davidson, W&L, and Richmond are not unrealistic. These schools want geographic diversity and would love to have some NYC kids.

LOL. Now we're totally guessing SAT scores and acting as if Richmond isn't flooded with kids from NY and NJ. Amazing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lack of SAT score and junior year grades, let alone EC context, just leave too much variability to guess.

Just know there will be many, many options! Focus on what you can control for now, worry about schools later.

^ This. You’re heading into sophomore year summer- this is a great time to explore some interesting activities, do some high-impact volunteer work and see if there might be a unique, spiky hobby your kid can explore. Later on in HS it gets trickier to do these things- kids want to work, make $, hang out with friends once they get a bit older. Look into summer programs with local museums, nonprofits, get a summer internship, etc. My kids both did a foreign exchange program their sophomore summer, along with tons of volunteer work. DD did enough volunteering that she was able to get the PVSA gold award (program has been suspended- thanks, Trump) that summer, which worked out great because she was too young to get a job. In addition to rounding out ECs, these activities provide great material for college essays.

Next year, start your college visits. Once you have an idea of what types of schools appeal to your DS, you can build a good list. You’re smart to be doing your research now to set him us for success later.

Lots of great points. But if the kid is willing and you have the free time, doesn't hurt to check out a few relatively close by schools now. Everyone has different strategies. But good to expose him and there are that many fewer to see next year. I wouldn't cancel other plans to do this or force him to do so if not interested, but I think it has value if possible.

[Anonymous]

If you can get your son to have a 1500+ SAT or 34+ ACT, a bunch of new doors would open. Really aim for those scores + developed, authentic, personal ECs and the story will flow naturally.

Cornell land grant schools for ED would be in range. UChicago and Northwestern ED potentially. I would also advocate for Michigan, Wisconsin, Tulane, and some of the other schools PPs mentioned.

There is a lot of variability now, but still time to maximize odds. Good luck

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you can get your son to have a 1500+ SAT or 34+ ACT, a bunch of new doors would open. Really aim for those scores + developed, authentic, personal ECs and the story will flow naturally.

Cornell land grant schools for ED would be in range. UChicago and Northwestern ED potentially. I would also advocate for Michigan, Wisconsin, Tulane, and some of the other schools PPs mentioned.

There is a lot of variability now, but still time to maximize odds. Good luck

Such a ridiculous comment. I'm sorry, call me nasty, but it just IS. I don't think OP needs to be told that over-the-top SAT scores can open more doors. Please explain how this is helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can get your son to have a 1500+ SAT or 34+ ACT, a bunch of new doors would open. Really aim for those scores + developed, authentic, personal ECs and the story will flow naturally.

Cornell land grant schools for ED would be in range. UChicago and Northwestern ED potentially. I would also advocate for Michigan, Wisconsin, Tulane, and some of the other schools PPs mentioned.

There is a lot of variability now, but still time to maximize odds. Good luck

Such a ridiculous comment. I'm sorry, call me nasty, but it just IS. I don't think OP needs to be told that over-the-top SAT scores can open more doors. Please explain how this is helpful.

1500+ is not over the top, it's very realistic. Over the top means 1580+ or 36.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can get your son to have a 1500+ SAT or 34+ ACT, a bunch of new doors would open. Really aim for those scores + developed, authentic, personal ECs and the story will flow naturally.

Cornell land grant schools for ED would be in range. UChicago and Northwestern ED potentially. I would also advocate for Michigan, Wisconsin, Tulane, and some of the other schools PPs mentioned.

There is a lot of variability now, but still time to maximize odds. Good luck

Such a ridiculous comment. I'm sorry, call me nasty, but it just IS. I don't think OP needs to be told that over-the-top SAT scores can open more doors. Please explain how this is helpful.

1500+ is not over the top, it's very realistic. Over the top means 1580+ or 36.

Well, not only is that a ridiculous retort, if you'd actually read OP's posts you'd know you"re being unrealistic.

From now on, I'm going to respond to every post requesting advice on college admissions by suggesting that the kid get over a 1500 on the SAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can get your son to have a 1500+ SAT or 34+ ACT, a bunch of new doors would open. Really aim for those scores + developed, authentic, personal ECs and the story will flow naturally.

Cornell land grant schools for ED would be in range. UChicago and Northwestern ED potentially. I would also advocate for Michigan, Wisconsin, Tulane, and some of the other schools PPs mentioned.

There is a lot of variability now, but still time to maximize odds. Good luck

Such a ridiculous comment. I'm sorry, call me nasty, but it just IS. I don't think OP needs to be told that over-the-top SAT scores can open more doors. Please explain how this is helpful.

1500+ is not over the top, it's very realistic. Over the top means 1580+ or 36.

Well, not only is that a ridiculous retort, if you'd actually read OP's posts you'd know you"re being unrealistic.

From now on, I'm going to respond to every post requesting advice on college admissions by suggesting that the kid get over a 1500 on the SAT.

Do you have better things to do? You have been here all day long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apologies that I am posting as a NYC parent but this group is so helpful! My 10th gr DS it a giant NYC selective public school. I feel like he's going to fall between the cracks in college admissions. Too strong for the "awesomely average" group, not strong enough for the 4.0/1500 group. Not super interested in rah-rah and I worry he'll get lost at a giant state school, but also worry he won't find his people at a tiny LAC. Very NOT quirky. Just a normal hard-working bright teenage boy who likes playing sports and "chilling" with his many friends, and likes the challenge of being surrounded by the smart kids at his school. Has a 3.7 and I'm guessing SAT will land somewhere around 1400?? At his school this is middle of the pack - about 20% of kids get into Ivy+. Best subjects are history and math, but will probably apply as a humanities major since there are so freaking many genius STEM kids. The school is so large that Naviance scattergrams look like a giant ink blot and literally everything appears to be a reach. Anyone here have a kid with a comparable profile? We will of course apply to many SUNYs, but want a solid list of privates as well. We are fortunate to be able to pay in full.

MY advice is more general

- Academically dig in a little more to history and math potential major and how that ties into quality of program, alumni, and post graduation plans when building the list. My kid applied with social science area as potential major and also enjoyed math but didn’t have the heavy STEM background to be sure about it as a major or for it to help versus hurt by putting that as intnded major. I think 100% that being at a SLAC made it easier to make the decision to major in math and be in environment where they weren’t starting behind by only taking AP Calc in high school. That said, now looking for a job and not grad school, they wish they had done Math/Econ or something else with Math to help in the job hunt and even the internship experiences prior.

- Socially your kid can probably make it work at a larger school or a medium size SLAC. First they have to decide Greek Life or not. Then how do people not in Greek life either by choice or didn’t get a bid where they wanted or with friends - how are they making friends, finding roommates, being social etc. and does that feel likely for your son if he went there? I wasn’t in Greek Life at what felt like a Greek heavy school and there were times it felt tough. I think the location of not having much to get to without a car off campus gave Greek parties even more social importance. My kids wanted to be more suburban/urban and went for schools where many different people could thrive and you didn’t have to be one way to fit in.


- As for suggested schools, I would have made similar suggestions about American/GW, Pitt, Syracuse, University of Rochester, Richmond, if willing to attend Catholic school look at some of the Catholic colleges on the east Coast, and consider if open to any mid-west colleges.

Above PP has a point regarding understanding where various liberal arts majors may lead to. If your son is interested in humanities and social sciences, also consider English and Political Science. These are other classic liberal arts majors. I believe English is short of male majors. Regarding history, I'd check to make sure your kid had areas/periods of specific interest and that the school supports them well. Review the departmental websites and look at faculty count and bios. In my opinion, the departments are too small at some SLACs for you to have access to a large variety of classes and faculty. That can be a risk if you end up not vibing with the department chair or key gatekeeping professors.

I know you are leery of big schools but the University of Michigan likes your DS's high school and New Yorkers. Just started ED and may still allow TO. DCUM says that private DMV school students don't have to have the 3.8 that seems to be the typical cutoff line for in-staters. (My son is in-state LSA social sciences and was around 3.9 unweighted). There will probably be an AO visiting your school as well as college fairs. Definitely try to do that if of interest.

I know that DMV kids tend to have 1500+ SATs but there may be wiggle room for your high school with Michigan. Your kid would certainly get into Michigan State if that's of interest.

Michigan has a "Residential College" that offers a four year living experience while getting a liberal arts degree with special seminars and course requirements. Look into that if interested in a more SLAC-like experience.

Michigan is a purple state with a female Democrat Governor (and not the first either). Pete Buttigieg lives here now. The two big universities have lots of kids from Oakland County which is a demographically affluent county similar to Montgomery County, Maryland.

This is a random idea but it aligns with the interest pattern and possible hooks. Also your kid's credentials would line up well with in-state students. Michigan kids are smart but we don't have relentless grinding and SAT prep norms in many of our school districts. Simply put, it's a quite different environment from high-competition areas like DMV and NYC top publics.

PPs advice is generally solid though Michigan centric. Their comment about SLACs is solidly off base but typical among those who have no actual experience with SLACs

PP. Department size depends on the schools of course. But you can do faculty counts and bio reviews for the departments to verify this. My DH got burned in grad school by a too small/incestuous department and I've been snooping around faculty/department websites ever since when academic choices are weighed. I also had the experience in undergrad of having a key faculty member go on sabbatical unexpectedly due to a political revolution in a country he studied. That upended my course selection in winter semester junior year.

I don't have a negative opinion of SLACs for the ultimate impact of the high-quality education they offer. I have concerns about lesser academic choice. You probably learn just the same amount anyway.

For example, Google says that Williams has 18 history faculty members including those on sabbatical and Michigan has 70. We don't need to quibble over which school is harder. I can even concede that Williams is harder or more elite or whatever you believe as long you as you concede it is possible for a gap to emerge at Williams if even one expert takes a year's sabbatical. Or a key faculty couple gets recruited away...seen that as well.

The reason I brought Michigan up for OP is that Michigan is very NYC friendly and to her kid's school. If OP is contemplating clever ways to secure a higher-ranked school for a male history major, I see possibilities here. I'm not originally from Michigan so look at it with an outsider's perspective. The cons are what OP identified...finding a social circle at a large school. It should be possible but there are no guarantees. My sophomore did fine with his dorm mates. He'll be moving into an apartment with his East Coast freshman roommate next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apologies that I am posting as a NYC parent but this group is so helpful! My 10th gr DS it a giant NYC selective public school. I feel like he's going to fall between the cracks in college admissions. Too strong for the "awesomely average" group, not strong enough for the 4.0/1500 group. Not super interested in rah-rah and I worry he'll get lost at a giant state school, but also worry he won't find his people at a tiny LAC. Very NOT quirky. Just a normal hard-working bright teenage boy who likes playing sports and "chilling" with his many friends, and likes the challenge of being surrounded by the smart kids at his school. Has a 3.7 and I'm guessing SAT will land somewhere around 1400?? At his school this is middle of the pack - about 20% of kids get into Ivy+. Best subjects are history and math, but will probably apply as a humanities major since there are so freaking many genius STEM kids. The school is so large that Naviance scattergrams look like a giant ink blot and literally everything appears to be a reach. Anyone here have a kid with a comparable profile? We will of course apply to many SUNYs, but want a solid list of privates as well. We are fortunate to be able to pay in full.

MY advice is more general

- Academically dig in a little more to history and math potential major and how that ties into quality of program, alumni, and post graduation plans when building the list. My kid applied with social science area as potential major and also enjoyed math but didn’t have the heavy STEM background to be sure about it as a major or for it to help versus hurt by putting that as intnded major. I think 100% that being at a SLAC made it easier to make the decision to major in math and be in environment where they weren’t starting behind by only taking AP Calc in high school. That said, now looking for a job and not grad school, they wish they had done Math/Econ or something else with Math to help in the job hunt and even the internship experiences prior.

- Socially your kid can probably make it work at a larger school or a medium size SLAC. First they have to decide Greek Life or not. Then how do people not in Greek life either by choice or didn’t get a bid where they wanted or with friends - how are they making friends, finding roommates, being social etc. and does that feel likely for your son if he went there? I wasn’t in Greek Life at what felt like a Greek heavy school and there were times it felt tough. I think the location of not having much to get to without a car off campus gave Greek parties even more social importance. My kids wanted to be more suburban/urban and went for schools where many different people could thrive and you didn’t have to be one way to fit in.


- As for suggested schools, I would have made similar suggestions about American/GW, Pitt, Syracuse, University of Rochester, Richmond, if willing to attend Catholic school look at some of the Catholic colleges on the east Coast, and consider if open to any mid-west colleges.

Above PP has a point regarding understanding where various liberal arts majors may lead to. If your son is interested in humanities and social sciences, also consider English and Political Science. These are other classic liberal arts majors. I believe English is short of male majors. Regarding history, I'd check to make sure your kid had areas/periods of specific interest and that the school supports them well. Review the departmental websites and look at faculty count and bios. In my opinion, the departments are too small at some SLACs for you to have access to a large variety of classes and faculty. That can be a risk if you end up not vibing with the department chair or key gatekeeping professors.

I know you are leery of big schools but the University of Michigan likes your DS's high school and New Yorkers. Just started ED and may still allow TO. DCUM says that private DMV school students don't have to have the 3.8 that seems to be the typical cutoff line for in-staters. (My son is in-state LSA social sciences and was around 3.9 unweighted). There will probably be an AO visiting your school as well as college fairs. Definitely try to do that if of interest.

I know that DMV kids tend to have 1500+ SATs but there may be wiggle room for your high school Michigan. Your kid would certainly get into Michigan State if that's of interest.

Michigan has a "Residential College" that offers a four year living experience while getting a liberal arts degree with special seminars and course requirements. Look into that if interested in a more SLAC-like experience.

Michigan is a purple state with a female Democrat Governor (and not the first either). Pete Buttigieg lives here now. The two big universities have lots of kids from Oakland County which is a demographically affluent county similar to Montgomery County, Maryland.

This is a random idea but it aligns with the interest pattern and possible hooks. Also your kid's credentials would line up well with in-state students. Michigan kids are smart but we don't have relentless grinding and SAT prep norms in many of our school districts. Simply put, it's a quite different environment from high-competition areas like DMV and NYC top publics.

PPs advice is generally solid though Michigan centric. Their comment about SLACs is solidly off base but typical among those who have no actual experience with SLACs

He’d kid isn’t getting into Michigan. Unless he improves his grades and scores much higher than a 1400.

Boy. LSA. Feeder high school. Doesn't have SATs yet. Possibility of TO from feeder high school. People on here report that Michigan drops the GPA requirements as they work the waitlist at feeder schools and privates. No I can't prove that. That is what the gossip on here suggests. 3.7 is not out of range because this isn't a cracked Engineering/CS/Ross situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apologies that I am posting as a NYC parent but this group is so helpful! My 10th gr DS it a giant NYC selective public school. I feel like he's going to fall between the cracks in college admissions. Too strong for the "awesomely average" group, not strong enough for the 4.0/1500 group. Not super interested in rah-rah and I worry he'll get lost at a giant state school, but also worry he won't find his people at a tiny LAC. Very NOT quirky. Just a normal hard-working bright teenage boy who likes playing sports and "chilling" with his many friends, and likes the challenge of being surrounded by the smart kids at his school. Has a 3.7 and I'm guessing SAT will land somewhere around 1400?? At his school this is middle of the pack - about 20% of kids get into Ivy+. Best subjects are history and math, but will probably apply as a humanities major since there are so freaking many genius STEM kids. The school is so large that Naviance scattergrams look like a giant ink blot and literally everything appears to be a reach. Anyone here have a kid with a comparable profile? We will of course apply to many SUNYs, but want a solid list of privates as well. We are fortunate to be able to pay in full.

MY advice is more general

- Academically dig in a little more to history and math potential major and how that ties into quality of program, alumni, and post graduation plans when building the list. My kid applied with social science area as potential major and also enjoyed math but didn’t have the heavy STEM background to be sure about it as a major or for it to help versus hurt by putting that as intnded major. I think 100% that being at a SLAC made it easier to make the decision to major in math and be in environment where they weren’t starting behind by only taking AP Calc in high school. That said, now looking for a job and not grad school, they wish they had done Math/Econ or something else with Math to help in the job hunt and even the internship experiences prior.

- Socially your kid can probably make it work at a larger school or a medium size SLAC. First they have to decide Greek Life or not. Then how do people not in Greek life either by choice or didn’t get a bid where they wanted or with friends - how are they making friends, finding roommates, being social etc. and does that feel likely for your son if he went there? I wasn’t in Greek Life at what felt like a Greek heavy school and there were times it felt tough. I think the location of not having much to get to without a car off campus gave Greek parties even more social importance. My kids wanted to be more suburban/urban and went for schools where many different people could thrive and you didn’t have to be one way to fit in.


- As for suggested schools, I would have made similar suggestions about American/GW, Pitt, Syracuse, University of Rochester, Richmond, if willing to attend Catholic school look at some of the Catholic colleges on the east Coast, and consider if open to any mid-west colleges.

Above PP has a point regarding understanding where various liberal arts majors may lead to. If your son is interested in humanities and social sciences, also consider English and Political Science. These are other classic liberal arts majors. I believe English is short of male majors. Regarding history, I'd check to make sure your kid had areas/periods of specific interest and that the school supports them well. Review the departmental websites and look at faculty count and bios. In my opinion, the departments are too small at some SLACs for you to have access to a large variety of classes and faculty. That can be a risk if you end up not vibing with the department chair or key gatekeeping professors.

I know you are leery of big schools but the University of Michigan likes your DS's high school and New Yorkers. Just started ED and may still allow TO. DCUM says that private DMV school students don't have to have the 3.8 that seems to be the typical cutoff line for in-staters. (My son is in-state LSA social sciences and was around 3.9 unweighted). There will probably be an AO visiting your school as well as college fairs. Definitely try to do that if of interest.

I know that DMV kids tend to have 1500+ SATs but there may be wiggle room for your high school Michigan. Your kid would certainly get into Michigan State if that's of interest.

Michigan has a "Residential College" that offers a four year living experience while getting a liberal arts degree with special seminars and course requirements. Look into that if interested in a more SLAC-like experience.

Michigan is a purple state with a female Democrat Governor (and not the first either). Pete Buttigieg lives here now. The two big universities have lots of kids from Oakland County which is a demographically affluent county similar to Montgomery County, Maryland.

This is a random idea but it aligns with the interest pattern and possible hooks. Also your kid's credentials would line up well with in-state students. Michigan kids are smart but we don't have relentless grinding and SAT prep norms in many of our school districts. Simply put, it's a quite different environment from high-competition areas like DMV and NYC top publics.

PPs advice is generally solid though Michigan centric. Their comment about SLACs is solidly off base but typical among those who have no actual experience with SLACs

He’d kid isn’t getting into Michigan. Unless he improves his grades and scores much higher than a 1400.

Boy. LSA. Feeder high school. Doesn't have SATs yet. Possibility of TO from feeder high school. People on here report that Michigan drops the GPA requirements as they work the waitlist at feeder schools and privates. No I can't prove that. That is what the gossip on here suggests. 3.7 is not out of range because this isn't a cracked Engineering/CS/Ross situation.

Yes, it works for humanities with strong leadership/evidence for major.
Test optional.
3.8uw
Feeder private.
Successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s way early to predict. Maybe look at the Jesuit schools for good size, great community and not as hard admit rate. Fordham, USD, Loyola Marymount, Fairfield, Loyola MD, Santa Clara, Chapman types. The dream schools book by Jeff Selingo might be a good read too.

Those saying Davidson, W&L and Richmond are a bit off. Those schools have 25% and under admit rates now.

Take top classes, get good greats, have solid testing and ECs w leadership roles.

With a lot of demonstrated interest, Richmond is totally possibly.

Apply ED and options open even more

[Anonymous]

If strong in math and want small college, look into St Olaf. Math is very strong there. They feed into multiple graduate math programs. It does not offer engineering.

One caveat. It is in a small town outside Minneapolis, so cold and snowy in the winters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can get your son to have a 1500+ SAT or 34+ ACT, a bunch of new doors would open. Really aim for those scores + developed, authentic, personal ECs and the story will flow naturally.

Cornell land grant schools for ED would be in range. UChicago and Northwestern ED potentially. I would also advocate for Michigan, Wisconsin, Tulane, and some of the other schools PPs mentioned.

There is a lot of variability now, but still time to maximize odds. Good luck

Such a ridiculous comment. I'm sorry, call me nasty, but it just IS. I don't think OP needs to be told that over-the-top SAT scores can open more doors. Please explain how this is helpful.

1500+ is not over the top, it's very realistic. Over the top means 1580+ or 36.

Well, not only is that a ridiculous retort, if you'd actually read OP's posts you'd know you"re being unrealistic.

From now on, I'm going to respond to every post requesting advice on college admissions by suggesting that the kid get over a 1500 on the SAT.

Do you have better things to do? You have been here all day long.

Talk about nasty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP said that the level of her DC is middle of the pack. Test scores for middle of the pack at NYC specialized high schools are high 1400s if not 1500. When OP projected test score to be 1400, I read it as high 1400s, e.g., 1490. That’s very different from 1400.

Cornell state schools are still reaches, but are not completely impossible. Davidson, W&L, and Richmond are not unrealistic. These schools want geographic diversity and would love to have some NYC kids.

My non-NY kid was waitlisted at Cornell ILR with a 1430 SAT (Nat'l Merit Commended) in the application round 2 years ago. He had a good candidacy otherwise. ILR tends to give out sophomore transfer options.

A possible play is Bing for freshman year then transfer to Cornell ILR or Human Ecology.