Hardy/Deal vs Arlington middle schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I was worried these would be the answers. We want to stay in DC but I'm not sure we can justify it knowing that for a similar housing price we could get Arlington schools. I'm interested in comparing the regular schools since we know our kids could go there, and may not get into specialty schools.

The better neighborhood schools in Arlington are better than the very best neighborhood schools in DC from top to bottom. High school, middle and elementary. There’s zero question about it. But you don’t need the very best schools for most kids. A good school is good enough. I wouldn’t move to Arlington just for the schools if you’re in a good DC district, your kids are doing well, and everything else about your existence favors DC.

This, buried in the thread, is the right answer.

We follow this advice. But we are moving and trying to decide between NW and Arlington. We like NW more and feel like it is a better for for our family of 5. But Arlington schools seem so much better. We are looking at modest homes in both places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I was worried these would be the answers. We want to stay in DC but I'm not sure we can justify it knowing that for a similar housing price we could get Arlington schools. I'm interested in comparing the regular schools since we know our kids could go there, and may not get into specialty schools.

The better neighborhood schools in Arlington are better than the very best neighborhood schools in DC from top to bottom. High school, middle and elementary. There’s zero question about it. But you don’t need the very best schools for most kids. A good school is good enough. I wouldn’t move to Arlington just for the schools if you’re in a good DC district, your kids are doing well, and everything else about your existence favors DC.

This, buried in the thread, is the right answer.

We follow this advice. But we are moving and trying to decide between NW and Arlington. We like NW more and feel like it is a better for for our family of 5. But Arlington schools seem so much better. We are looking at modest homes in both places.

where would you live and where would your kids go to school in DC? one thing we really like about Arlington are the school buses (and late buses). It has been a game changer for the entire family. If you are moving anyway, I would not discount value of not having to be your own school bus. And we have not sacrificed overall walkability since we live between Clarendon and Ballston and our kids walk to both. Being walkable to Ballston is great because it is a great meeting place for teens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I was worried these would be the answers. We want to stay in DC but I'm not sure we can justify it knowing that for a similar housing price we could get Arlington schools. I'm interested in comparing the regular schools since we know our kids could go there, and may not get into specialty schools.

The better neighborhood schools in Arlington are better than the very best neighborhood schools in DC from top to bottom. High school, middle and elementary. There’s zero question about it. But you don’t need the very best schools for most kids. A good school is good enough. I wouldn’t move to Arlington just for the schools if you’re in a good DC district, your kids are doing well, and everything else about your existence favors DC.

This, buried in the thread, is the right answer.

We follow this advice. But we are moving and trying to decide between NW and Arlington. We like NW more and feel like it is a better for for our family of 5. But Arlington schools seem so much better. We are looking at modest homes in both places.

In the long run if you feel like NW DC is a better fit for your family, don’t leave. The decision in the long term makes no difference in life outcomes or is super insignificant. I grew up in NW dc and so did many of my friends - we are all raising our kids here and sending our kids to DCPS. Everyone is successful.

[Anonymous]

Do Arlington middle schools have school sports?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do Arlington middle schools have school sports?

Yes
https://catalog.apsva.us/extracurricular-athletic-program

and here is the info on academics

https://catalog.apsva.us/sequence_of_study

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse, who has taught in both APS and DCPS, could not get novels delivered from the DCPS warehouse for an AP Lit class. Put the order in at the beginning of the school year, still hadn't received the books at Thanksgiving. We ended up buying 20 paperbacks ourselves and spouse gave them to the kids. Standard operating procedure in DCPS.

Overall did the quality of teaching differ between the schools? And the expectations? DCPS isn't well run but we know good teachers exist. Are Arlington schools better because the teachers are better, they have higher expectations, or they have more resources (which improves their teaching)? Or is it simply demographics? If the focus is on having your child learn, how different are JR and MacArthur feeders compares to Arlington? So far this thread indicates that intensifies classes in middle push students to learn more.

All of the above, OP. We were in DCPS for 10 years for 2 kids. What we've found in Arlington is a system that's higher capacity than DCPS across the board. If you need to go up the chain for help in APS, the process is smoother, clear and more helpful than in DCPS. You aren't treated like a pesky UMC helicopter parents in APS as you sometimes are in DCPS. Management systems in APS are better established, meaning that school principals don't exercise outsized power and make a lot of discretionary decisions as in DCPS. In our experience, overall, the teaching has been better in APS with more rigor on offer. APS school demographics are v. different than DCPS demographics overall. Because the schools in APS are all OK or good, and charters barely exist, UMC parents don't mob certain schools the same way they do in DCPS. APS as a whole is far more Latino and far less AA than DCPS, with a good mix of immigrants in the mix. The N Arlington MS scene is comparable to the Upper NW DCPS scene. Kenmore and Gunston middle schools in APS probably aren't any better than Hardy or Deal, but Williamsburg, Thomas Jefferson, Dorothy Hamm and HB Woodlawn (lottery admissions, can't apply from DC) pretty clearly are. From what we've observed, parents don't move around within Arlington to access better schools much at all. The practice is more common in DCPS. Hope this info helps.

Just curious- how is it possible to be such a strong school when the grade sizes are 300+ students on average. I’m not 100% certain but I believe on average DCPS grade sized are more like 100 students. These APS class sizes seem massive. Would that not pose a challenge for educators/administrators? How do kids not get lost in the shuffle, particularly those who need additional support?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse, who has taught in both APS and DCPS, could not get novels delivered from the DCPS warehouse for an AP Lit class. Put the order in at the beginning of the school year, still hadn't received the books at Thanksgiving. We ended up buying 20 paperbacks ourselves and spouse gave them to the kids. Standard operating procedure in DCPS.

Overall did the quality of teaching differ between the schools? And the expectations? DCPS isn't well run but we know good teachers exist. Are Arlington schools better because the teachers are better, they have higher expectations, or they have more resources (which improves their teaching)? Or is it simply demographics? If the focus is on having your child learn, how different are JR and MacArthur feeders compares to Arlington? So far this thread indicates that intensifies classes in middle push students to learn more.

All of the above, OP. We were in DCPS for 10 years for 2 kids. What we've found in Arlington is a system that's higher capacity than DCPS across the board. If you need to go up the chain for help in APS, the process is smoother, clear and more helpful than in DCPS. You aren't treated like a pesky UMC helicopter parents in APS as you sometimes are in DCPS. Management systems in APS are better established, meaning that school principals don't exercise outsized power and make a lot of discretionary decisions as in DCPS. In our experience, overall, the teaching has been better in APS with more rigor on offer. APS school demographics are v. different than DCPS demographics overall. Because the schools in APS are all OK or good, and charters barely exist, UMC parents don't mob certain schools the same way they do in DCPS. APS as a whole is far more Latino and far less AA than DCPS, with a good mix of immigrants in the mix. The N Arlington MS scene is comparable to the Upper NW DCPS scene. Kenmore and Gunston middle schools in APS probably aren't any better than Hardy or Deal, but Williamsburg, Thomas Jefferson, Dorothy Hamm and HB Woodlawn (lottery admissions, can't apply from DC) pretty clearly are. From what we've observed, parents don't move around within Arlington to access better schools much at all. The practice is more common in DCPS. Hope this info helps.

Just curious- how is it possible to be such a strong school when the grade sizes are 300+ students on average. I’m not 100% certain but I believe on average DCPS grade sized are more like 100 students. These APS class sizes seem massive. Would that not pose a challenge for educators/administrators? How do kids not get lost in the shuffle, particularly those who need additional support?

I think Deal actually has 500 students per grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse, who has taught in both APS and DCPS, could not get novels delivered from the DCPS warehouse for an AP Lit class. Put the order in at the beginning of the school year, still hadn't received the books at Thanksgiving. We ended up buying 20 paperbacks ourselves and spouse gave them to the kids. Standard operating procedure in DCPS.

Overall did the quality of teaching differ between the schools? And the expectations? DCPS isn't well run but we know good teachers exist. Are Arlington schools better because the teachers are better, they have higher expectations, or they have more resources (which improves their teaching)? Or is it simply demographics? If the focus is on having your child learn, how different are JR and MacArthur feeders compares to Arlington? So far this thread indicates that intensifies classes in middle push students to learn more.

All of the above, OP. We were in DCPS for 10 years for 2 kids. What we've found in Arlington is a system that's higher capacity than DCPS across the board. If you need to go up the chain for help in APS, the process is smoother, clear and more helpful than in DCPS. You aren't treated like a pesky UMC helicopter parents in APS as you sometimes are in DCPS. Management systems in APS are better established, meaning that school principals don't exercise outsized power and make a lot of discretionary decisions as in DCPS. In our experience, overall, the teaching has been better in APS with more rigor on offer. APS school demographics are v. different than DCPS demographics overall. Because the schools in APS are all OK or good, and charters barely exist, UMC parents don't mob certain schools the same way they do in DCPS. APS as a whole is far more Latino and far less AA than DCPS, with a good mix of immigrants in the mix. The N Arlington MS scene is comparable to the Upper NW DCPS scene. Kenmore and Gunston middle schools in APS probably aren't any better than Hardy or Deal, but Williamsburg, Thomas Jefferson, Dorothy Hamm and HB Woodlawn (lottery admissions, can't apply from DC) pretty clearly are. From what we've observed, parents don't move around within Arlington to access better schools much at all. The practice is more common in DCPS. Hope this info helps.

Just curious- how is it possible to be such a strong school when the grade sizes are 300+ students on average. I’m not 100% certain but I believe on average DCPS grade sized are more like 100 students. These APS class sizes seem massive. Would that not pose a challenge for educators/administrators? How do kids not get lost in the shuffle, particularly those who need additional support?

Just curriculum alone is reason to move. If you are in a good charter maybe it makes sense to stay. But dcps is embarrassingly bad. And the application schools are a joke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse, who has taught in both APS and DCPS, could not get novels delivered from the DCPS warehouse for an AP Lit class. Put the order in at the beginning of the school year, still hadn't received the books at Thanksgiving. We ended up buying 20 paperbacks ourselves and spouse gave them to the kids. Standard operating procedure in DCPS.

Overall did the quality of teaching differ between the schools? And the expectations? DCPS isn't well run but we know good teachers exist. Are Arlington schools better because the teachers are better, they have higher expectations, or they have more resources (which improves their teaching)? Or is it simply demographics? If the focus is on having your child learn, how different are JR and MacArthur feeders compares to Arlington? So far this thread indicates that intensifies classes in middle push students to learn more.

All of the above, OP. We were in DCPS for 10 years for 2 kids. What we've found in Arlington is a system that's higher capacity than DCPS across the board. If you need to go up the chain for help in APS, the process is smoother, clear and more helpful than in DCPS. You aren't treated like a pesky UMC helicopter parents in APS as you sometimes are in DCPS. Management systems in APS are better established, meaning that school principals don't exercise outsized power and make a lot of discretionary decisions as in DCPS. In our experience, overall, the teaching has been better in APS with more rigor on offer. APS school demographics are v. different than DCPS demographics overall. Because the schools in APS are all OK or good, and charters barely exist, UMC parents don't mob certain schools the same way they do in DCPS. APS as a whole is far more Latino and far less AA than DCPS, with a good mix of immigrants in the mix. The N Arlington MS scene is comparable to the Upper NW DCPS scene. Kenmore and Gunston middle schools in APS probably aren't any better than Hardy or Deal, but Williamsburg, Thomas Jefferson, Dorothy Hamm and HB Woodlawn (lottery admissions, can't apply from DC) pretty clearly are. From what we've observed, parents don't move around within Arlington to access better schools much at all. The practice is more common in DCPS. Hope this info helps.

Just curious- how is it possible to be such a strong school when the grade sizes are 300+ students on average. I’m not 100% certain but I believe on average DCPS grade sized are more like 100 students. These APS class sizes seem massive. Would that not pose a challenge for educators/administrators? How do kids not get lost in the shuffle, particularly those who need additional support?

Our kids have gone to Thomas Jefferson, the smallest of the neighborhood middle schools in Arlington with about 250 in a grade. We see many advantages to big middle schools as long as they're well run, particularly for academic tracking and language instruction. There are well-established systems for everything in APS. Language instruction is required at our MS and they're teaching 5 or 6 languages, including Spanish for native speakers, along with American Sign Language. Our youngest does math two years ahead in a good-sized cohort of peers who can handle the math with teachers who've been teaching GT math for a long time. The school offers all kind of things you don't see in DCPS, like daily instrumental music lessons for anybody who takes orchestra or band (at least 25% of the students). Yet classes aren't too big, never more than two dozen students. The guidance counselors are numerous, well trained and readily available to families. I'm not under the impression that kids get lost in the shuffle. Stragglers are steered to after-school help sessions anybody can go to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse, who has taught in both APS and DCPS, could not get novels delivered from the DCPS warehouse for an AP Lit class. Put the order in at the beginning of the school year, still hadn't received the books at Thanksgiving. We ended up buying 20 paperbacks ourselves and spouse gave them to the kids. Standard operating procedure in DCPS.

Overall did the quality of teaching differ between the schools? And the expectations? DCPS isn't well run but we know good teachers exist. Are Arlington schools better because the teachers are better, they have higher expectations, or they have more resources (which improves their teaching)? Or is it simply demographics? If the focus is on having your child learn, how different are JR and MacArthur feeders compares to Arlington? So far this thread indicates that intensifies classes in middle push students to learn more.

All of the above, OP. We were in DCPS for 10 years for 2 kids. What we've found in Arlington is a system that's higher capacity than DCPS across the board. If you need to go up the chain for help in APS, the process is smoother, clear and more helpful than in DCPS. You aren't treated like a pesky UMC helicopter parents in APS as you sometimes are in DCPS. Management systems in APS are better established, meaning that school principals don't exercise outsized power and make a lot of discretionary decisions as in DCPS. In our experience, overall, the teaching has been better in APS with more rigor on offer. APS school demographics are v. different than DCPS demographics overall. Because the schools in APS are all OK or good, and charters barely exist, UMC parents don't mob certain schools the same way they do in DCPS. APS as a whole is far more Latino and far less AA than DCPS, with a good mix of immigrants in the mix. The N Arlington MS scene is comparable to the Upper NW DCPS scene. Kenmore and Gunston middle schools in APS probably aren't any better than Hardy or Deal, but Williamsburg, Thomas Jefferson, Dorothy Hamm and HB Woodlawn (lottery admissions, can't apply from DC) pretty clearly are. From what we've observed, parents don't move around within Arlington to access better schools much at all. The practice is more common in DCPS. Hope this info helps.

Just curious- how is it possible to be such a strong school when the grade sizes are 300+ students on average. I’m not 100% certain but I believe on average DCPS grade sized are more like 100 students. These APS class sizes seem massive. Would that not pose a challenge for educators/administrators? How do kids not get lost in the shuffle, particularly those who need additional support?

Just curriculum alone is reason to move. If you are in a good charter maybe it makes sense to stay. But dcps is embarrassingly bad. And the application schools are a joke.

If you’re moving solely because of public school curriculum, you need to reassess your entire life and perhaps seek mental health help. JFC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse, who has taught in both APS and DCPS, could not get novels delivered from the DCPS warehouse for an AP Lit class. Put the order in at the beginning of the school year, still hadn't received the books at Thanksgiving. We ended up buying 20 paperbacks ourselves and spouse gave them to the kids. Standard operating procedure in DCPS.

Overall did the quality of teaching differ between the schools? And the expectations? DCPS isn't well run but we know good teachers exist. Are Arlington schools better because the teachers are better, they have higher expectations, or they have more resources (which improves their teaching)? Or is it simply demographics? If the focus is on having your child learn, how different are JR and MacArthur feeders compares to Arlington? So far this thread indicates that intensifies classes in middle push students to learn more.

All of the above, OP. We were in DCPS for 10 years for 2 kids. What we've found in Arlington is a system that's higher capacity than DCPS across the board. If you need to go up the chain for help in APS, the process is smoother, clear and more helpful than in DCPS. You aren't treated like a pesky UMC helicopter parents in APS as you sometimes are in DCPS. Management systems in APS are better established, meaning that school principals don't exercise outsized power and make a lot of discretionary decisions as in DCPS. In our experience, overall, the teaching has been better in APS with more rigor on offer. APS school demographics are v. different than DCPS demographics overall. Because the schools in APS are all OK or good, and charters barely exist, UMC parents don't mob certain schools the same way they do in DCPS. APS as a whole is far more Latino and far less AA than DCPS, with a good mix of immigrants in the mix. The N Arlington MS scene is comparable to the Upper NW DCPS scene. Kenmore and Gunston middle schools in APS probably aren't any better than Hardy or Deal, but Williamsburg, Thomas Jefferson, Dorothy Hamm and HB Woodlawn (lottery admissions, can't apply from DC) pretty clearly are. From what we've observed, parents don't move around within Arlington to access better schools much at all. The practice is more common in DCPS. Hope this info helps.

Just curious- how is it possible to be such a strong school when the grade sizes are 300+ students on average. I’m not 100% certain but I believe on average DCPS grade sized are more like 100 students. These APS class sizes seem massive. Would that not pose a challenge for educators/administrators? How do kids not get lost in the shuffle, particularly those who need additional support?

Just curriculum alone is reason to move. If you are in a good charter maybe it makes sense to stay. But dcps is embarrassingly bad. And the application schools are a joke.

If you’re moving solely because of public school curriculum, you need to reassess your entire life and perhaps seek mental health help. JFC.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are facing a similar decision to OP. We live EOTP and have never had luck in the lottery. Both of our kids are strong students and one will be starting MS in the fall. We love DC and don’t want to leave. Our eldest DS has a lot of freedom in our neighborhood to walk around, meet up with friends, and we think this gives him a sense of independence and confidence you can’t get everywhere. We went to an open house for a middle school in the suburbs and were surprised at how the school talked about the kids getting there, crossing the street, etc and addressing parent concerns that seemed suited to kids much younger than MS age. I’m worried my kids will end up a bit sheltered and stifled. But it may be worth it for the better schools and the certainty.

We moved from Capitol Hill when our eldest was 11 to Arlington, about a mile from Ballston. Our kids walked to high school, took ART and metro buses and Metro all over Arlington and into DC on the weekends. Neither of them bothered to get their drivers license until they were in college because it just wasn't necessary. They weren't sheltered or stifled at all.

I truly didn't want to leave DC, but almost everything about our lives got easier when we moved, without giving up very much. My commute got longer, but only by about 15 minutes each way. DH's commute was shorter.

Oooh this is the most compelling thing I’ve heard. Tell me what got easier in your life. And were you able to make new adult friends? We are so settled in our DC neighborhood that I am having trouble envisioning the move. But our inbound MS is terrible and I’m tired of the constant lottery uncertainty.

I'd move to Arlington before sending my kids to many of the DC neighborhood schools. Sadly. But don't let this poster fool you: your life virtually anywhere in Arlington, including the area of the county that this poster is describing, WILL be decidedly more suburban and less interesting than anywhere in DC other than Upper Northwest and your kids' upbringing absolutely will be more sheltered. The experience that OP is describing -- not getting drivers' licenses, bussing and metroing by themselves all over town, etc. -- is the minority. Most Arlington parents don't allow that. And no Arlington kids who we knew ever metro'd into DC on weekends by themselves. In fact, most didn't go to DC ever. Maybe things have changed, or maybe OP and her family were unicorns because they moved to Arlington when the kids were older, but most Arlington parents simply don't -- or didn't, at least -- engage in the free-range parenting that she describes.

How do I know? We raised our kids there. Lived there for decades. We now live in DC.

ART and local Metrobus routes are free for APS students, and plenty utilize that service. The public bus stops are often filled with middle and high school students after dismissal. Arlington is very walkable—unique for a suburb—and kids taking the bus or walking to/from Georgetown, or taking the Metro to the National Mall or sports events in the city, is not uncommon. Students even walk home or towards nearby commercial areas after evening sports events at the high schools. I’d say students in Arlington are much more independent than their peers in most suburbs. The high schools even have open campus lunch for upperclassmen, and students are often on their own or with friends off campus.

The majority of Arlington parents do in fact allow for this level of independence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are facing a similar decision to OP. We live EOTP and have never had luck in the lottery. Both of our kids are strong students and one will be starting MS in the fall. We love DC and don’t want to leave. Our eldest DS has a lot of freedom in our neighborhood to walk around, meet up with friends, and we think this gives him a sense of independence and confidence you can’t get everywhere. We went to an open house for a middle school in the suburbs and were surprised at how the school talked about the kids getting there, crossing the street, etc and addressing parent concerns that seemed suited to kids much younger than MS age. I’m worried my kids will end up a bit sheltered and stifled. But it may be worth it for the better schools and the certainty.

We moved from Capitol Hill when our eldest was 11 to Arlington, about a mile from Ballston. Our kids walked to high school, took ART and metro buses and Metro all over Arlington and into DC on the weekends. Neither of them bothered to get their drivers license until they were in college because it just wasn't necessary. They weren't sheltered or stifled at all.

I truly didn't want to leave DC, but almost everything about our lives got easier when we moved, without giving up very much. My commute got longer, but only by about 15 minutes each way. DH's commute was shorter.

Oooh this is the most compelling thing I’ve heard. Tell me what got easier in your life. And were you able to make new adult friends? We are so settled in our DC neighborhood that I am having trouble envisioning the move. But our inbound MS is terrible and I’m tired of the constant lottery uncertainty.

I'd move to Arlington before sending my kids to many of the DC neighborhood schools. Sadly. But don't let this poster fool you: your life virtually anywhere in Arlington, including the area of the county that this poster is describing, WILL be decidedly more suburban and less interesting than anywhere in DC other than Upper Northwest and your kids' upbringing absolutely will be more sheltered. The experience that OP is describing -- not getting drivers' licenses, bussing and metroing by themselves all over town, etc. -- is the minority. Most Arlington parents don't allow that. And no Arlington kids who we knew ever metro'd into DC on weekends by themselves. In fact, most didn't go to DC ever. Maybe things have changed, or maybe OP and her family were unicorns because they moved to Arlington when the kids were older, but most Arlington parents simply don't -- or didn't, at least -- engage in the free-range parenting that she describes.

How do I know? We raised our kids there. Lived there for decades. We now live in DC.

Appreciate the counterpoint. These are the issues we are struggling with. I grew up super sheltered and driven around by my parents in our exurb until I could drive myself. We deliberately moved somewhere my kids could have some agency and autonomy at a young age. I know there’s probably a middle ground between our current situation and the one I grew up in but I have these visions of moving to the suburbs and my kids becoming these boring kids who just get carted around from one travel sports practice to another and otherwise spend the rest of the time snacking and gaming alone in our house. The autonomy they have right now gives them so much confidence, especially one of my kids who otherwise tends to be a little anxious. And I think, on balance, it outweighs a bit of the school downsides around here, and that being more responsible and confident helps them advocate for themselves and know they are capable of doing hard things. But I know we could try hard to carry this over to the suburbs if we find somewhere our kids are still able to walk/bike/bus/metro to at least a few places on their own.

I understand. And I'm certainly not doubting the sincerity of that poster's post or the experience of her particular family. But I'd be stunned to hear that it's now anything close to the norm in Arlington. If anything, I'd guess the situation that I described is "worse" because if anything the county has gotten more wealthy than it already was when we were raising our kids there. Having a metro nearby doesn't make a neighborhood "urban." Arlington may be more dense than most suburbs, but it's the suburbs and people live like it's the suburbs. A mile from the Ballston metro is 100 percent suburban.

I have a kid at Dorothy Hamm and I'm located about a mile from the Ballston Metro. My kid is really independent because everything is so close. They bike to school everyday. They bike to the central library to get books. They bike to Washington-Liberty for swim practice. They bike to a local field for rec flag football. They bike to their piano lesson. They bike to friends' houses to study. They bike to their scout meeting. On early release days, they usually end up at Starbucks at Lee Heights with about half of the middle school. (All of these locations are walkable, my kid just prefers to ride their bike.)

We haven't quite gotten to Metroing downtown yet as an 11 yo, in part because I'd want them to be in a group with friends and I don't think any other friends parents would allow that right now, but they absolutely get around our part of town really independently. It's very different than my experience growing up in a suburb where I would depend on a ride from my parents.

You are describing a suburban existence. I know the Starbucks you're talking about. It couldn't be more suburban. Not to mention that most city kids in middle school don't hang out in the local Starbucks.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any of it. Just saying that it ain't city living.

Can you say more about city living that you appreciate for your kids? I thought the independent movement and places to go to within walking/transit was the point but it sounds like you are talking about something else. Where do city middle schoolers hang out if not at a local coffee shop?

Maybe it's simply the density of options in the city.

We live in Shaw and have a middle schooler at BASIS. They are just starting their independence (they do metro to and from school), but I can see how the city is shaping their lives. the student body has a culture of commuting all over the city to each other's houses, they can leave campus at lunch and then sit on memorials, eat at the Kogod Courtyard, stop by MLK library to work, and choose from like 20 different restaurants and 10 different coffee shops to hang out at. They all are extremely good at navigating around the city; not just getting from point a to point b, but seeing th city as a whole and seeing all of it as accessible.

They visit the museums all the time and know how to use them as a resource, to extract information that they can use.

They look around and see the Capitol every day. They have cross country and track practice on the national mall. They are commuting alongside all the DC workers; they are not cordoned off in a side suburb but are right in the middle of things.

They learn how to navigate around criminals and see some real s***. They develop street smarts. I understand this can be seen as a con, but it's a difference.

The Arlington life described seems fine and I'm glad the kids are trapped by cars, that they can walk and bike. However, they are walking and biking around a suburban area. It's a high quality suburban lifestyle. And that is totally fine and I can see that it's easier in many ways.

Ballston is almost certainly denser than Shaw in terms of housing ….

Yea, mostly high risers renting to bros who invade the Wharf and 14th Street on weekends. They're not "dense" with kids in the public schools. Arlington households are among the lowest percentages of families with children in the country, and this is especially true along the Orange Line.

Many upwardly mobile Mongolian families that value public education live in the high rises along the Orange Line corridor in N Arlington. It’s not all just wealthy 20-somethings without kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe that there’s a serious argument going on on DCUM on whether DCPS even at its best holds a candle to APS. The only reasonable argument that can be made is that sending your kids to a top school district isn’t necessary.

You are completely missing the point PP. Your child does not attend a "school district." Your child is an individual, from an individual family, attending an individual school, with an individual group of peers, teachers, and opportunities. If I had to pick a random kid and drop them into a random school, yes, the odds of that kid having a better outcome are probably higher in ACPS. But a specific type of kid, and family, and a specific school? That kid might be better off in ACPS, might be better off in DCPS, or might do equally well in either.

ACPS is City of Alexandria public schools, which tells us you don't know much about the schools in Arlington (APS).

OP - you clearly care about education or you wouldn't be posting here, but you're not going to get good advice because the DCPS parents will view a move on your part to Arlington as treason, and must do their utmost to keep you within the fold, lest another UMC family leave for Arlington, Fairfax, or Montgomery for middle or high school.

Don't kid yourself. People in DC look down on people in the suburbs. If we wanted to commute all day to a McMansion in a soulless suburb just so our kid could go to school with 5,000 other white kids, we would -- but we don't.

Nope.

Yorktown is the "whitest" high school in Arlington and it's only 56 percent white, and neither W-L nor Wakefield is even half while. Arlington is a very diverse school district overall.

Try again.

Snort. This is like Palisades claiming to be diverse. The average home in 22207 costs $1.5 million.

The high schools in Fairfax County are much more diverse overall than the schools in North Arlington which are plurality or majority white. W-L is just under half white. Yorktown is actually the most white high school in Northern Virginia, along with Madison HS in Vienna. In any event, students don’t care about those stats, and most do value the varied backgrounds of their classmates: there are military, foreign service, etc., and families from all corners of the globe.

[Anonymous]

Yes but Fairfax is too far from city life, too suburban and too blah for most DC transplants. Pick your poison.